Groups were just fine before dungeon finder came along

Nemesis7884

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

The whole community managed to form groups for pledges just by using the /zone chat
I am tired of the broken function and the silence in zone chat. Guilds cannot always form groups but if the group finder did not exist people woud socialize and group up instead of trying to queue.

Simply remove the function

nothing is stopping you to do that

I for one like to have the option to use the groupfinder - no one forces you

Looking for trials in zone chat is enough for me - otherwise it would get cluttered... i would even welcome a trial finder.

This attitude of many people that seems to be so on vogue nowadays is really beyond me:

"I dont like to use this completly optional thing so i want to prevent everyone else from using it too"

same thing you see in the sjw community with regards to tv shows, movies, games etc...

I dont like this game - so no one shall play it
I dont like this movie - so no one shall watch it

just do you and let us do us

GeorgeBlack

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

The whole community managed to form groups for pledges just by using the /zone chat
I am tired of the broken function and the silence in zone chat. Guilds cannot always form groups but if the group finder did not exist people woud socialize and group up instead of trying to queue.

Simply remove the function

nothing is stopping you to do that

I for one like to have the option to use the groupfinder - no one forces you

Looking for trials in zone chat is enough for me - otherwise it would get cluttered... i would even welcome a trial finder.

This attitude of many people that seems to be so on vogue nowadays is really beyond me:

"I dont like to use this completly optional thing so i want to prevent everyone else from using it too"

same thing you see in the sjw community with regards to tv shows, movies, games etc...

I dont like this game - so no one shall play it
I dont like this movie - so no one shall watch it

just do you and let us do us

It doesnt work

FierceSam

Someone declined your offer to comment

bmnoble

The only real change I would like, is a min level for DLC dungeons both normal and vet in the random group finder(you want to group up and attempt them at lower levels go right ahead).


When I queue as a tank and get something like Scalecaller peak or the wolf hunter dungeons, I don't want to have to slog through the dungeon or fail to complete it because I have been given group members who are in the high level 40's or below CP160, who can't even survive the ads let alone the bosses and boss mechanics.

I got no problem carrying one low level party member but not a whole low level party, a tank should never do more damage than someone queuing as a DPS.


I won't abandon groups right away I will see how they go with the first few bosses but I won't hang around in a dungeon for hours just because I get a group of enthusiastic, lower level players who don't care about wiping over and over, got better things to do with my game time.

that's my 2 cents.

zaria

Looking at all the problems with finder under load its much smarter to try to make groups in guild.
it also tend to be an far more enjoyable run.

kwando

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

The whole community managed to form groups for pledges just by using the /zone chat
I am tired of the broken function and the silence in zone chat. Guilds cannot always form groups but if the group finder did not exist people woud socialize and group up instead of trying to queue.

Simply remove the function

Silence in /zone ? What are you blind?

kwando

bmnoble wrote: »

The only real change I would like, is a min level for DLC dungeons both normal and vet in the random group finder(you want to group up and attempt them at lower levels go right ahead).


When I queue as a tank and get something like Scalecaller peak or the wolf hunter dungeons, I don't want to have to slog through the dungeon or fail to complete it because I have been given group members who are in the high level 40's or below CP160, who can't even survive the ads let alone the bosses and boss mechanics.

I got no problem carrying one low level party member but not a whole low level party, a tank should never do more damage than someone queuing as a DPS.


I won't abandon groups right away I will see how they go with the first few bosses but I won't hang around in a dungeon for hours just because I get a group of enthusiastic, lower level players who don't care about wiping over and over, got better things to do with my game time.

that's my 2 cents.

Wait so you are talking about normal dungeons where -160cp joins you and you get angry?
Really dude go suck a ***.

Artim_X

Sp1dHQ wrote: »

Artim_X wrote: »

Dungeon finder works fine... most of the time. If I tank it's instant, if I heal I'll probably get something in 10 minutes, and if I'm DPS I'll do something to pass the time (30+ minute wait especially for a specific dungeon).

Nice story, but unfortunately in this happens only outside of primetime. In the evening even as a tank you will spam F button for 30 min to get into dungeon.

I've never had to wait 30 minutes or even 10 minutes to get into a dungeon as a tank except on the PTS due to the lack of people using the dungeon finder. I have tanked quite often throughout the day and even on prime time the queue is essentially instant. One of the benefits of the tank role is that if you suspect something is amiss you can safely drop queue and requeue without wasting too much time due to the lack of tanks who want to pug dungeons via the finder. I think out of the many dungeons I've run this year I've only ever had to drop queue twice, since something was clearly wrong. However, like I said it works most of the time at least on PC NA.

Soulgirl

I also am of the opinion that trials should be in group finder.
People that have less time to play or are more casual in nature, would sure appreciate being able to enjoy all the content.
I for one play since beta, PS4 for 2 plus years, xbox also and now back to PC, and I never had the chance to be in trials.
Might not be the popular opinion but I'm sure there's lots of people that would love to be able to queue for trials. Even if for a lower difficulty, and leave the harder stuff for the hardcore players.

todokete

I've never done a trial or arena in 2 years I've been playing. I won't unless they add it to the finder

mairwen85

Soulgirl wrote: »

I also am of the opinion that trials should be in group finder.
People that have less time to play or are more casual in nature, would sure appreciate being able to enjoy all the content.
I for one play since beta, PS4 for 2 plus years, xbox also and now back to PC, and I never had the chance to be in trials.
Might not be the popular opinion but I'm sure there's lots of people that would love to be able to queue for trials. Even if for a lower difficulty, and leave the harder stuff for the hardcore players.

So often you see groups of 8/9 calling for extras in zone, for what seems like ages. Or individuals asking if there are any groups. This would be a great addition and it doesn't take away from full 12 man preformed. Vet queue would likely rarely be used though... but even if this is just for normal, it would be beneficial to the wider player-base.

Jumping into a random trial would be scary, and fun

zaria

mairwen85 wrote: »

Soulgirl wrote: »

I also am of the opinion that trials should be in group finder.
People that have less time to play or are more casual in nature, would sure appreciate being able to enjoy all the content.
I for one play since beta, PS4 for 2 plus years, xbox also and now back to PC, and I never had the chance to be in trials.
Might not be the popular opinion but I'm sure there's lots of people that would love to be able to queue for trials. Even if for a lower difficulty, and leave the harder stuff for the hardcore players.

So often you see groups of 8/9 calling for extras in zone, for what seems like ages. Or individuals asking if there are any groups. This would be a great addition and it doesn't take away from full 12 man preformed. Vet queue would likely rarely be used though... but even if this is just for normal, it would be beneficial to the wider player-base.

Jumping into a random trial would be scary, and fun

Remember we was doing the 3 normal craglorn trials. Tips here is to do AA first as if some drops out you can do the other two with 11. And obviously some dropped out on AA during the run, smooth run so might be disconnect but pretty late and none wanted to join. Asked in guild, some level 40 asked that trials was, you find out was the answer, most of guild is here
we only needed an body to stand on an pressure plate after all.

Poor guy was a bit shell shocked, don't think he had done any group dungeons

Tasear

idk wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

😐 I remember those days....

"LF Healer Templar only"

Nope I like the current system.

I healed leaderboard runs in trials on a Sorc. I healed all 6 vet dungeons on a Sorc, regularly, and the vet dungeons added early in the game. No issues finding groups.

😜 I have more than a Sorc now. My point was before they fixed group finder things were just nasty for someone learning.

That is only with some groups, if we are talking about 4 man dungeons. If you are in a decent guild you can avoid all that to begin with. When forming for dungeon runs in my raid guild no one asks or cares what you are healing on, as long as you can do some dps, lol

I don't understand what we are debating here. I simple stand by group finder has being asset and it has improved gaming experience on eso for myself and others

Osteos

Adding trials and arenas would be great. I pug normal trials anyway.

starkerealm

todokete wrote: »

No. Add trials to Finder

Reheating an old post, enjoy:

starkerealm wrote: »

I'd rather spend hours looking for a group that can actually clear a trial than spend three ****ing hours in nHoF because the ****ing healer can't do their ******* job, and that ******** khajiit would actually listen to the mechanics instead of just saying, "boobies," and giggling, at irregular intervals.

Look, if you haven't actually run trials yet, I fully understand where you're coming from. As someone who's cleared every normal trial in the game, and a few on vet... no, you do not want this.

I know you think you do. This sounds really appealing on the outside looking in, but Trials require way more coordination than dungeons. It's not just paying attention to mechanics, it's organizing your team. Here's a few examples:

HRC: After clearing the first boss, you need to split your group into two pieces. A tank, a healer, and four DPS need to go with both groups. (Only, because it's group finder, one of your "tanks" is a snipe spammer in medium armor. RIP.)

AA: You need to get everyone on the pads. You need a tank in the middle with three DPS. You need a healer on both sides, and DPS with them. Honestly, this is hard enough to orchestrate with new players who are serious about coordinating. I don't even want to think about the pad mechanic in a PUG. I'm also not even thinking about AA boss mechanics, because that is the only faceroll trial otherwise.

SO: My first though is, hey, you might actually be able to pug this... then I remembered the poison mechanics. That would be hilarious in a GF PUG, and not in a good way.

MoL: *Psychotic laughter* Okay, so, normally the Twins aren't a stumbling block for an experienced group, but for a PUG? Let me explain. The room has a line of candles across the middle. On either end of the candle line is a boss. A tank, healer, and four DPS sneaks across the room, between the bosses, and sets up there. Now, the tank must aggro (but not taunt) one of the bosses, then taunt the other one. At the same time the other tank needs to taunt (at range) the untaunted boss. This is when you learn your second GF tank doesn't know what taunts are. And, for more fun and games, at various points in the fight your tanks will need to trade bosses. Also, if any player from one side approaches a player from the other, they'll both detonate, killing one another and probably instigating a wipe. And... we're not even done.

MoL Continued: *More psychotic laughter.* Okay, somehow you got through the twins, and made your way to the final boss. At various phases in the fight you need to send three runners (technically two can do the job if they really know the paths), who will venture out of the boss fight, where they must kill six hidden ritualistic, before they wipe the group. I've seen relatively competent players get confused on this point causing wipes.

*Sixty-Three wipes later*

HoF: So, that three hour thing wasn't a random scenario I pulled out of a hat; that happened to me. The other tank was CR153 (remember this, you're going to queue into a trial with level 20s who have no CP), the healer and at least one of the DPS were utter spazzes. Why do I bring this up? Because one player can cause wipes in HoF.

The first boss you encounter is actually a pair. You need to split them up, and then the tanks rotate them back and forth allowing the DPS to burn one and then switching off. While this is happening, the DPS are being mauled by poison. Also, because this isn't enough fun.

The second boss is in the same room. In this fight, at various times, you'll need to send four DPS to the upper platform, where they can disable an enemy and reset a system before coming back down. Surprise, turns out if anyone's DPS is low, when they go up, they'll kill the entire group. You can also accidentally kill yourself up there if you're not careful.

The next to last boss (I'm skipping the spider. I think it's a PUG wrecker, but I don't feel like writing that one up right now), is another group fight. This time there's three. But these mechanics are special. So, each tank can take the bosses on the sides. The center one never moves. While they're together they're immune to damage, so the tanks (plural, again) need to pull those two off of the guy in the center, then each group needs to burn their version. When the bosses get to certain thresholds they become immune to damage again, and need to be reconnected. This will burn out their immunity if all of them were at those thresholds. So... yeah, that's not happening with a PUG. Coordinated groups can get stuck on this. My first attempt took almost 45 minutes on this boss alone (see the aforementioned healer and draw the connection, though this was before that guild drove off almost all of its good players because of, yeah, that healer again.)

Now you're at the last boss. You're going to wipe. When you die he creates a clone of you. If he draws aggro on anything he can't reach, he jumps. When he jumps three times in a row, everyone dies. When he gets to certain health thresholds you need to stop DPS on the boss, because he will reflect that damage back on you. Also, when the tank dies you probably can't rez them unless you get stupidly lucky. He also gasses parts of the room. Hope you weren't planning on standing there. Electrifies others, yeah the wiring here is terrible, and releases spinning blade traps in the rest. And that's the safest space in the room. Meanwhile you're wiped by your own clone.

*One-Hundred-and-Thirty-Seven wipes later.*

You never see execute phase, you don't know what it looks like or if it's even real. You've never seen him below 75% health because your DPS keep killing themselves when he walks to the center of the room.

AS: The two side bosses are fine. The main boss is annoying. Good luck getting your PUG to deal with the adds that grant invulnerability to the boss. But, I'm getting ahead of myself, because they also grant invulnerability to the side bosses. In theory you can kill them first before clearing the fight, but that will never happen because of that idiot who sprints straight in and triggers hard mode because they saw something to attack.

Yeah... I'll pass, thanks.

mairwen85

@starkerealm you can pretty much balls to the wall any normal trial - - the issues you refer to can be resolved with kick and replace from queue, lol, however mean that sounds.

But, most importantly, you do not have to use the finder... You can still organize from guild and friends like now, or stand around in craglorn recruiting. Who loses out here? No one. But more stand to gain from it. It also provides an in-route for players who don't normally see the inside of a trial unless someone vouches for them.

In my opinion, it makes trials more accessible and removes some of the presumed elitism.

Lisutaris

Remove Group Finder.
Insert worldwide chat for grping up (one for norm one for vet and also one for pvp)
add a quickguide at lvl10 how to enable/disable chat windows....
...problem solved

zaria

Tasear wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

😐 I remember those days....

"LF Healer Templar only"

Nope I like the current system.

I healed leaderboard runs in trials on a Sorc. I healed all 6 vet dungeons on a Sorc, regularly, and the vet dungeons added early in the game. No issues finding groups.

😜 I have more than a Sorc now. My point was before they fixed group finder things were just nasty for someone learning.

That is only with some groups, if we are talking about 4 man dungeons. If you are in a decent guild you can avoid all that to begin with. When forming for dungeon runs in my raid guild no one asks or cares what you are healing on, as long as you can do some dps, lol

I don't understand what we are debating here. I simple stand by group finder has being asset and it has improved gaming experience on eso for myself and others

This, no an finder group is less fun than an guild run and it has less success rate and you rater not want to do an vet dlc with it unless done it before and accept it probably fails.
However its 1) very nice then leveling as in random normal, note you don't want fungal 1 on each run as you only get one skill point from it
2) nice for taking alts trough the dungeons for skill point.
3) farming keys at odd hours.
4) testing out new builds or why don't warden tank work?
5) level undaunted, yes better done in an good group but you don't want to take your trash build into them

So its not something you want to do challenging content on, see my reasons above as why not
Farming gear is best done is guild groups as people here share. People in pugs might share if that you want is off meta and run was smooth.

Kikke

/z DD v16 LFG Silver, Gold! trow me an invite or /w me!

Karius_Imalthar

I like Dungeon Finder but it could be improved. Also, there is nothing stopping you from saying you are "lfg" in zone chat like before.

idk

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

All good and well.
The feature doesnt work. How about that?

The feature clearly does work. It only has issues during prime time. How about that?

Your comments in the OP seem to be more about a personal issue. A great many players are grouped via the GF everyday so it clearly works (except the issue during prime time). Also, a great many people form their own groups via guilds, zone and friends list.

All this happens every day so it is clear you are incorrect. Do not know why are so bitter about this, but that is probably more of a personal issue since it is clearly not a game issue.

Jimmy

It would be a terrible step backwards to remove Group Finder.

Just the ability to actually play the game while waiting for a group, instead of standing idly in zone spamming zone chat, is worth it.

GeorgeBlack

idk wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

All good and well.
The feature doesnt work. How about that?

The feature clearly does work. It only has issues during prime time. How about that?

Prime time is when people log in to play. Pressing F to no avail when you log in to play is a problem.
GF needs to be reworked because the current system does not work.
People will do just fine until it gets fixed.

Jimmy

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

idk wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

All good and well.
The feature doesnt work. How about that?

The feature clearly does work. It only has issues during prime time. How about that?

Prime time is when people log in to play. Pressing F to no avail when you log in to play is a problem.
GF needs to be reworked because the current system does not work.
People will do just fine until it gets fixed.

I've never had to "Press F to no avail". Most I've EVER had to press F is maybe 5 times.
I've never encountered this problem and I do pledges with group finder every day.

TheGreatBlackBear

Imagine getting fake tanks and healers in VCR.

mairwen85

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Imagine getting fake tanks and healers in VCR.

I've seen the same thing happen when recruiting open world -- and from guild, unfortunately. That's why most progression groups vet their group members.

The same rules apply as with dungeons if trials were to be added to the finder. You take what you get if you pug; organized groups are unaffected. But, yeah, 2 fake tanks, 2 fake healers and 8 5k light spamming dps would be an interesting configuration for a veteran trial. I'd love a spectator mode just for that!

Umbro100

Jimmy wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

idk wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

All good and well.
The feature doesnt work. How about that?

The feature clearly does work. It only has issues during prime time. How about that?

Prime time is when people log in to play. Pressing F to no avail when you log in to play is a problem.
GF needs to be reworked because the current system does not work.
People will do just fine until it gets fixed.

I've never had to "Press F to no avail". Most I've EVER had to press F is maybe 5 times.
I've never encountered this problem and I do pledges with group finder every day.

I see ...pc na. try pc eu - I am a tank, right now in an endless loop - join que, get an inv in less then a minute, ready check, everyone is ready, forming group - ups, after the forming group back in the que with the someone declined message- for exactly 35 min now. maybe 2in a minute we are forming a group and then back in the que. people are not even talking about it any more, they just gave up. dungeon finder on pc eu is broken, during the day its ok, when more ppl log into play, it does not work any more.same for bg que .soooo ... the pledge event starts tomorrow. going to be fun ! ZOS could not care less.

phwaap

Group finder is great and should be enhanced as others have said. I'm always excited to see what a PUG brings. If you're not, organize a dedicated group or move yourself into trying out for that coveted trial spot in a guild.

LFG is alive and well. Just look at WBs and boxes during events. If you want to sit around and call out for max CP, perfect rotation, parse proofs, and what not, nothing stopping ya.

Every day, many groups, succeed or fail, I TYFG!

starkerealm

mairwen85 wrote: »

@starkerealm you can pretty much balls to the wall any normal trial - - the issues you refer to can be resolved with kick and replace from queue, lol, however mean that sounds.

@mairwen85, yeah, I'm not sure how well a kick replace will help you clear the HoF bosses. In your (marginal) defense, Halls was toned down a lot after I wrote that.

Kick/replace would help you with AA pad management, but that's about it. And, that's assuming you can get 11 people on the pads to begin with. When you can only get eight pads pressed, because people are confused, or standing on the same pad, what then?

Incidentally, when I wrote that post Cloudrest got a pass. I'd played it, but was still under NDA for the mechanics. We all know how that works now? Five opportunities for things to go horribly wrong.

Rele: The player who gets overcharged doesn't swap.
Galenwe: Hoarfrost goes down.
All Bosses: No one goes down. (Only a hard wipe mechanic on Z'Maja)
All Bosses: Players go down, but no one hits the spears. (Again, only fatal if it's Z'Maja, but good luck recovering from the crabs running all over the place with a PUG.)
Z'Maja: Asylum Happy Fun Murder Time with Leroy.

In some of these cases, yeah, you can kick troublemakers, but in others, it's just going to lead to wipe after wipe.

Normal trials are very completed if you've got a marginally coordinated team who are willing to run them. However, pulling fodder from the random normal crowd will not end well. Trials are significantly more complex, mechanically.

FakeFox

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

todokete wrote: »

No. Add trials to Finder

Yeah... It is kinda wierd. You have an PvE end game content in your game that is not being supported by a "Match Maker" (group finder) ? Why is that ?

Because trials need proper roles, tactics, lead, etc. even on normal to some degree. A match making system can not assure that. Dungeon groups are already a complete mess more often then not and those are only four players in rather easy content.
I mean, it would set totally new records in terms of toxic noobs, so I'm all for it.