More meta questions!

Addaran

On posts about various changes to classes, i see people arguing that it doesn't matter that X class/role lost some buff/debuff because it's the other class/role who's supposed to be giving it to the team.

So... wich buffs/debuffs are "absolutly necessary" and wich are just nice to have. Any that are useless in most content? ( I'm guessing beserk is more usefull then expedition)

Any of those are pretty much always expected to be given by some class or roles? For exemple, I think i remember hearing that tanks are suppose to give fracture/breach?

VaranisArano

In general,
Tanks give Major fracture/breach because that's tied to their main taunt "Pierce Armor" from One Hand and Shield. That's one of the reasons ice staff tanking never really took off.

Healers usually help with resource sustain. Templar Shards, Necrotic Orbs, and often Elemental Drain's minor magicka steal if they use a destro staff.

ZOS likes to spread out the buffs since it encourages diversity. For example, tanks used to give Minor Toughness via Warhorn, then ZOS moved it to Wardens, so you need a warden in the group if you want minor toughness.

Which buffs are necessary differs for content. In Vet Dungeons, I'd expect most tanks to bring Major Fracture/Breach and most healers to have some form of resource sustain, but random groups are a grab bag.

For trials, you can get a good idea from looking at the support sets. Ebon Armory, Alkosh, Torug's, Olorime, Worm Cult, Sanctuary, and Hircines. There are other support sets, but the key is for support to provide as many buffs as they can so the DDs can min-max for damage.

Addaran

VaranisArano wrote: »

For trials, you can get a good idea from looking at the support sets. Ebon Armory, Alkosh, Torug's, Olorime, Worm Cult, Sanctuary, and Hircines. There are other support sets, but the key is for support to provide as many buffs as they can so the DDs can min-max for damage.

If i get what you're saying, DD don't have to worry about applying debuffs or giving buffs? Only tank and healer?

Damage shields, you're responsable for having your own?

VaranisArano

Addaran wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

For trials, you can get a good idea from looking at the support sets. Ebon Armory, Alkosh, Torug's, Olorime, Worm Cult, Sanctuary, and Hircines. There are other support sets, but the key is for support to provide as many buffs as they can so the DDs can min-max for damage.

If i get what you're saying, DD don't have to worry about applying debuffs or giving buffs? Only tank and healer?

Damage shields, you're responsable for having your own?

Most DDs focus on doing damage...which usually includes a certain amount of self-provided buffs and debuffs. If you want an idea of what each class brings, looking at some of the trial builds from Alcast should give you an idea. For example, my stam sorc DD self-buffs with Crit Surge and Trap Beast.

Nevertheless, its usually more efficient for a support role like a healer or a tank to provide most of the group buffs and debuffs because unless its a part of a DDs' rotation, DDs doing the buffing can be a DPS loss. The best thing to do for organized trial groups is to ask what your group what you should use. For dungeons, you use whatever damage skills you normally use and are normally self-reliant for buffs.

Damage Shields - if you are a build that has damage shields, you cast your own. The healers might use healing ward, but that's not guaranteed to hit you when you need it. Most DDs should be able to self-heal.

Addaran

Thanks for the answers! I don't have organized trial groups or anything, i'm still on my way to lvl 50, just not sure what to focus my skill points on and wich skills to put on my limited skill bars.

VaranisArano

Addaran wrote: »

Thanks for the answers! I don't have organized trial groups or anything, i'm still on my way to lvl 50, just not sure what to focus my skill points on and wich skills to put on my limited skill bars.

Ah, well in that case...

Good news, nobody "expects" that much for normal dungeons beyond the basics.
Tank: have a taunt, be able to stay alive, crowd control is great
Healer: heal yourself and the group, being able to do some damage is great
DD: do more damage than light attack, AOE damage for mobs and self-heals are great

If you want more specifics, what's your class? Magicka or Stam? Desired role?

Rage_Chill

VaranisArano wrote: »

Addaran wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

For trials, you can get a good idea from looking at the support sets. Ebon Armory, Alkosh, Torug's, Olorime, Worm Cult, Sanctuary, and Hircines. There are other support sets, but the key is for support to provide as many buffs as they can so the DDs can min-max for damage.

Most DDs should be able to self-heal.

Say it again, for the people in the back!

VaranisArano

Rage_Chill wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Most DDs should be able to self-heal.

Say it again, for the people in the back!

LOL. Yeah, its really helpful as a DD to be able to heal yourself in dungeons.

As a Magicka DD, most builds have something in their class skills that will let them self-heal.
For Stamina builds, its a little trickier. Stam Warden has a stamina heal. Stam Sorc heals by using Dark Deal or Crit Surge. Most of the others have to use magicka for their self heals, so many stamina classes use Vigor from the PVP Alliance War skill line as their stamina heal.

Addaran

VaranisArano wrote: »

If you want more specifics, what's your class? Magicka or Stam? Desired role?

So far, i only have a breton magicka sorc. Pets and DPS.
Just with Destro and the 3 sorc skill lines, there's 20 skills to choose from. Volatile and the matriarch count for 4x, so i only have 6 more choices.

Also, both my staffs should be the same one? So far i was only using one bar at the time, first with fire staff, second with lightning.
My single target one was deadric prey, mage's wrath and unstable wall of element.
The other was with the damage shield, liquid lightning and unstable wall of element for more aoe.


I'm not sure what i'll want as a main, i'm thinking of trying other classes and stamina after lvl 50/main quest done. If tank is not too slow for overland solo content, i might try it.

VaranisArano

Addaran wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

If you want more specifics, what's your class? Magicka or Stam? Desired role?

So far, i only have a breton magicka sorc. Pets and DPS.
Just with Destro and the 3 sorc skill lines, there's 20 skills to choose from. Volatile and the matriarch count for 4x, so i only have 6 more choices.

Also, both my staffs should be the same one? So far i was only using one bar at the time, first with fire staff, second with lightning.
My single target one was deadric prey, mage's wrath and unstable wall of element.
The other was with the damage shield, liquid lightning and unstable wall of element for more aoe.


I'm not sure what i'll want as a main, i'm thinking of trying other classes and stamina after lvl 50/main quest done. If tank is not too slow for overland solo content, i might try it.

Honestly, that looks pretty good. If you aren't happy with it, I'd suggest looking at Alcast's builds: https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-sorcerer-pet-build-pve/