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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
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To all the NB nerf threads
Ryknos
✭✭✭
If you haven't tried it in the PTR then you cannot speak for the entire population that plays the class. There have been reports by actual PTR players noting that things are fine, so please calm down and stop being accelerated into a false belief.
16
-
Grandma✭✭✭✭✭also please god stop complaining about pve. Your class was top dog for as long as most people have been playing (I doubt there are that many vets from magsorc days lol) so now that you get some minor nerfs - which by the way don't matter if you're in a raid environment - could you please stop screaming and frothing at the mouth about it? Nb are the most played class in every trial by a good 10-20% frequency above other classes.
I get it's a pvp nerf, scream about that if you want, but please, PLEASE stop making rage threads about deleting your nbs or making a funeral for them because now your healer has to use combat prayer. This isn't even remotely in the same stratosphere as the concept of adding a timer to mag shields and that didn't even go through because of community backlash; this is the *FIRST* notes of the nb nerfs, it's possible thing swill change.GH / 3/04/2021 / Elemental Catalyst Necromancer6 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭TBH. I shy away from these conversations because they're toxic and just a bunch of hating really.
But NB have been
Tank: Low tier (sap tank nerfed)
Healer: Low tier (damage while healing nerfed)
Aoe: Low Tier (never excelled)
Single target: They excelled
Theyve been nerfed out of contention in every category. Single target was all they had left.
But ultimately single target was all that was taken into considered while all other playstyles were nerfed into non-existence and ignored.
Other classes that excel in those other areas will now be able to equal to or surpass them in single target. All the while maintaining superiority in tanking, healing, AoE, etc.
Think: Suprise attack was considered over loaded due to fracture and resistance. *On a single target.* I can sub assault and apply major fracture to an entire group with high burst. While having a way longer duration on resistance buffs.
I just dont get that hating on nb tbh
/shrug
Edited by Royalthought on April 18, 2019 10:07PM14 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »TBH. I shy away from these conversations because they're toxic and just a bunch of hating really.
But NB have been
Tank: Low tier (sap tank nerfed)
Healer: Low tier (damage while healing nerfed)
Aoe: Low Tier (never excelled)
Single target: They excelled
Theyve been nerfed out of contention in every category. Single target was all they had left.
But ultimately single target was all that was taken into considered while all other playstyles were nerfed into non-existence and ignored.
Other classes that excel in those other areas will now be able to equal to or surpass them in single target. All the while maintaining superiority in tanking, healing, AoE, etc.
Think: Suprise attack was considered over loaded due to fracture and resistance. *On a single target.* I can sub assault and apply major fracture to an entire group with high burst. While having a way longer duration on resistance buffs.
I just dont get that hating on nb tbh
/shrug
Dont forget the only busrt heal not being nerfed.
It was completely eliminated.
It will be the only class without access to a burst heal for tanking.Edited by Lab3360 on April 18, 2019 10:29PM6 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »TBH. I shy away from these conversations because they're toxic and just a bunch of hating really.
But NB have been
Tank: Low tier (sap tank nerfed)
Healer: Low tier (damage while healing nerfed)
Aoe: Low Tier (never excelled)
Single target: They excelled
Theyve been nerfed out of contention in every category. Single target was all they had left.
But ultimately single target was all that was taken into considered while all other playstyles were nerfed into non-existence and ignored.
Other classes that excel in those other areas will now be able to equal to or surpass them in single target. All the while maintaining superiority in tanking, healing, AoE, etc.
Think: Suprise attack was considered over loaded due to fracture and resistance. *On a single target.* I can sub assault and apply major fracture to an entire group with high burst. While having a way longer duration on resistance buffs.
I just dont get that hating on nb tbh
/shrug
Dont forget the only busrt heal not being nerfed.
It was completely eliminated.
It will be the only class without access to a burst heal for tanking.
Its a class thats being stripped of other playstyles and pigeonholed into a single target burst/gank class while being punished for being effective at it. lol
Its pretty wierd actually.
10 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »TBH. I shy away from these conversations because they're toxic and just a bunch of hating really.
But NB have been
Tank: Low tier (sap tank nerfed)
Healer: Low tier (damage while healing nerfed)
Aoe: Low Tier (never excelled)
Single target: They excelled
Theyve been nerfed out of contention in every category. Single target was all they had left.
But ultimately single target was all that was taken into considered while all other playstyles were nerfed into non-existence and ignored.
Other classes that excel in those other areas will now be able to equal to or surpass them in single target. All the while maintaining superiority in tanking, healing, AoE, etc.
Think: Suprise attack was considered over loaded due to fracture and resistance. *On a single target.* I can sub assault and apply major fracture to an entire group with high burst. While having a way longer duration on resistance buffs.
I just dont get that hating on nb tbh
/shrug
Dont forget the only busrt heal not being nerfed.
It was completely eliminated.
It will be the only class without access to a burst heal for tanking.
Its a class thats being stripped of other playstyles and pigeonholed into a single target burst/gank class while being punished for being effective at it. lol
Its pretty wierd actually.
Its very weird. All role buffs and passives have been removed over time.
Healer
Funnel Health - Nerfed
Swallow Souls - Nerfed
Vitality - Removed
Maleficent Offering - Nerfed
Dps
Minor Beserk - Removed
Surprise Attack - Nerfed
Major Fracure - Removed
Major Breach - Removed
Impale - Nerfed
Incap - Nerfed
Major Defile - Removed
Tank
Sap Essence - Nerfed
Swallow Souls - Nerfed 3x
Dark Cloak - Nerfed
Let me know if I have missed anything.
9 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »TBH. I shy away from these conversations because they're toxic and just a bunch of hating really.
But NB have been
Tank: Low tier (sap tank nerfed)
Healer: Low tier (damage while healing nerfed)
Aoe: Low Tier (never excelled)
Single target: They excelled
Theyve been nerfed out of contention in every category. Single target was all they had left.
But ultimately single target was all that was taken into considered while all other playstyles were nerfed into non-existence and ignored.
Other classes that excel in those other areas will now be able to equal to or surpass them in single target. All the while maintaining superiority in tanking, healing, AoE, etc.
Think: Suprise attack was considered over loaded due to fracture and resistance. *On a single target.* I can sub assault and apply major fracture to an entire group with high burst. While having a way longer duration on resistance buffs.
I just dont get that hating on nb tbh
/shrug
Dont forget the only busrt heal not being nerfed.
It was completely eliminated.
It will be the only class without access to a burst heal for tanking.
Its a class thats being stripped of other playstyles and pigeonholed into a single target burst/gank class while being punished for being effective at it. lol
Its pretty wierd actually.
Its very weird. All role buffs and passives have been removed over time.
Healer
Funnel Health - Nerfed
Swallow Souls - Nerfed
Vitality - Removed
Maleficent Offering - Nerfed
Dps
Minor Beserk - Removed
Surprise Attack - Nerfed
Major Fracure - Removed
Major Breach - Removed
Impale - Nerfed
Incap - Nerfed
Major Defile - Removed
Tank
Sap Essence - Nerfed
Swallow Souls - Nerfed 3x
Dark Cloak - Nerfed
Let me know if I have missed anything.
I think their Aoe got nerfed too. Its called path or somethingEdited by Royalthought on April 18, 2019 11:50PM0 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »TBH. I shy away from these conversations because they're toxic and just a bunch of hating really.
But NB have been
Tank: Low tier (sap tank nerfed)
Healer: Low tier (damage while healing nerfed)
Aoe: Low Tier (never excelled)
Single target: They excelled
Theyve been nerfed out of contention in every category. Single target was all they had left.
But ultimately single target was all that was taken into considered while all other playstyles were nerfed into non-existence and ignored.
Other classes that excel in those other areas will now be able to equal to or surpass them in single target. All the while maintaining superiority in tanking, healing, AoE, etc.
Think: Suprise attack was considered over loaded due to fracture and resistance. *On a single target.* I can sub assault and apply major fracture to an entire group with high burst. While having a way longer duration on resistance buffs.
I just dont get that hating on nb tbh
/shrug
Dont forget the only busrt heal not being nerfed.
It was completely eliminated.
It will be the only class without access to a burst heal for tanking.
Its a class thats being stripped of other playstyles and pigeonholed into a single target burst/gank class while being punished for being effective at it. lol
Its pretty wierd actually.
Its very weird. All role buffs and passives have been removed over time.
Healer
Funnel Health - Nerfed
Swallow Souls - Nerfed
Vitality - Removed
Maleficent Offering - Nerfed
Dps
Minor Beserk - Removed
Surprise Attack - Nerfed
Major Fracure - Removed
Major Breach - Removed
Impale - Nerfed
Incap - Nerfed
Major Defile - Removed
Tank
Sap Essence - Nerfed
Swallow Souls - Nerfed 3x
Dark Cloak - Nerfed
Let me know if I have missed anything.
I think their Aoe got nerfed too. Its called path or something
Thank you. Let me add that to the list.0 -
BLAINE1245✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »TBH. I shy away from these conversations because they're toxic and just a bunch of hating really.
But NB have been
Tank: Low tier (sap tank nerfed)
Healer: Low tier (damage while healing nerfed)
Aoe: Low Tier (never excelled)
Single target: They excelled
Theyve been nerfed out of contention in every category. Single target was all they had left.
But ultimately single target was all that was taken into considered while all other playstyles were nerfed into non-existence and ignored.
Other classes that excel in those other areas will now be able to equal to or surpass them in single target. All the while maintaining superiority in tanking, healing, AoE, etc.
Think: Suprise attack was considered over loaded due to fracture and resistance. *On a single target.* I can sub assault and apply major fracture to an entire group with high burst. While having a way longer duration on resistance buffs.
I just dont get that hating on nb tbh
/shrug
Dont forget the only busrt heal not being nerfed.
It was completely eliminated.
It will be the only class without access to a burst heal for tanking.
Its a class thats being stripped of other playstyles and pigeonholed into a single target burst/gank class while being punished for being effective at it. lol
Its pretty wierd actually.
Its very weird. All role buffs and passives have been removed over time.
Healer
Funnel Health - Nerfed
Swallow Souls - Nerfed
Vitality - Removed
Maleficent Offering - Nerfed
Dps
Minor Beserk - Removed
Surprise Attack - Nerfed
Major Fracure - Removed
Major Breach - Removed
Impale - Nerfed
Incap - Nerfed
Major Defile - Removed
Tank
Sap Essence - Nerfed
Swallow Souls - Nerfed 3x
Dark Cloak - Nerfed
Let me know if I have missed anything.
Exactly this. But oh lemme hop on the PTS to make sure the "balancing" actually screwed my character
. 2 -
Morgul667✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nb nerf was expected
Would have been better for zos to bring others to nb levels but we k ow zos is not good at that
They may have been over the top though
Dunno have not tested it yet2 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I've played it on PTS (PvP) and I don't think they're fine (both magicka and stamina). Nor do I know any Nightblade main who thinks that they're fine on PTS.Edited by Ragnaroek93 on April 19, 2019 12:00AMI used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.6 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'm a PvPer, I played the PTS and yeah they're pretty awful now. I'm sure they'll get buffed because they're terrible right now. I'll be playing something else in the meantime.
They're like an auto rifle in competitive PvP in Destiny 2.1 -
xenowarrior92eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I like nerfs on my main class...cuz after we get sent to the ground we still find a way to be op...and after a while in a DLC or 2...zos comes back cuz it felt bad and it makes us brokenly op then it will take them another 2-3 years of complains from others to try and "balance us"...so im good trading 3-6 months of "nerf" for a 2-3 years of brokenly OP...oh well...0 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Its very weird. All role buffs and passives have been removed over time.
Healer
Funnel Health - Nerfed
Swallow Souls - Nerfed
Vitality - Removed
Maleficent Offering - Nerfed
Dps
Minor Beserk - Removed
Surprise Attack - Nerfed
Major Fracure - Removed
Major Breach - Removed
Impale - Nerfed
Incap - Nerfed
Major Defile - Removed
Tank
Sap Essence - Nerfed
Swallow Souls - Nerfed 3x
Dark Cloak - Nerfed
Let me know if I have missed anything.
Oh, I forgot one...
Twisted Path - Nerfed
Refreshing Path - NerfedEdited by Lab3360 on April 19, 2019 12:24AM4 -
xenowarrior92eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »TBH. I shy away from these conversations because they're toxic and just a bunch of hating really.
But NB have been
Tank: Low tier (sap tank nerfed)
Healer: Low tier (damage while healing nerfed)
Aoe: Low Tier (never excelled)
Single target: They excelled
Theyve been nerfed out of contention in every category. Single target was all they had left.
But ultimately single target was all that was taken into considered while all other playstyles were nerfed into non-existence and ignored.
Other classes that excel in those other areas will now be able to equal to or surpass them in single target. All the while maintaining superiority in tanking, healing, AoE, etc.
Think: Suprise attack was considered over loaded due to fracture and resistance. *On a single target.* I can sub assault and apply major fracture to an entire group with high burst. While having a way longer duration on resistance buffs.
I just dont get that hating on nb tbh
/shrug
Dont forget the only busrt heal not being nerfed.
It was completely eliminated.
It will be the only class without access to a burst heal for tanking.
Its a class thats being stripped of other playstyles and pigeonholed into a single target burst/gank class while being punished for being effective at it. lol
Its pretty wierd actually.
Its very weird. All role buffs and passives have been removed over time.
Healer
Funnel Health - Nerfed
Swallow Souls - Nerfed
Vitality - Removed
Maleficent Offering - Nerfed
Dps
Minor Beserk - Removed
Surprise Attack - Nerfed
Major Fracure - Removed
Major Breach - Removed
Impale - Nerfed
Incap - Nerfed
Major Defile - Removed
Tank
Sap Essence - Nerfed
Swallow Souls - Nerfed 3x
Dark Cloak - Nerfed
Let me know if I have missed anything.
I think their Aoe got nerfed too. Its called path or something
yeah refreshing path...the heal it gives on an alkosh/torugs/earthgore tank setup is @ 750 on a khajiit race...while on the same racial/setup on a DK their ash clouds give over 1100 heal/s...at the current values...funny how zos thinks dks are so weak that they are buffinf coagulant blood by 19% and completely removing nb burst self heal that wasn't as solid and good as dragonblood but it wasn't current hp dependant and was giving a good survivability...while putting NB tanks on the 3rd place of the plate...now we got completely thrown off the table...thx zos..rly appreciated...*** healers...soon to be *** tanks(yes nb tank currently its decent but dk has a more solid kit that puts everyone in a shadow sadly...even so nb tanks rly good)...and decent single target dps...atleast for now that haven't changed...who knows they have time to hit harder...also the other clasess get full buffs and power pump...while dks once againt become the demigods of nirn...guess this is what "balance" means.
this is how we will probably end.
2 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »TBH. I shy away from these conversations because they're toxic and just a bunch of hating really.
But NB have been
Tank: Low tier (sap tank nerfed)
Healer: Low tier (damage while healing nerfed)
Aoe: Low Tier (never excelled)
Single target: They excelled
Theyve been nerfed out of contention in every category. Single target was all they had left.
But ultimately single target was all that was taken into considered while all other playstyles were nerfed into non-existence and ignored.
Other classes that excel in those other areas will now be able to equal to or surpass them in single target. All the while maintaining superiority in tanking, healing, AoE, etc.
Think: Suprise attack was considered over loaded due to fracture and resistance. *On a single target.* I can sub assault and apply major fracture to an entire group with high burst. While having a way longer duration on resistance buffs.
I just dont get that hating on nb tbh
/shrug
Dont forget the only busrt heal not being nerfed.
It was completely eliminated.
It will be the only class without access to a burst heal for tanking.
Its a class thats being stripped of other playstyles and pigeonholed into a single target burst/gank class while being punished for being effective at it. lol
Its pretty wierd actually.
Its very weird. All role buffs and passives have been removed over time.
Healer
Funnel Health - Nerfed
Swallow Souls - Nerfed
Vitality - Removed
Maleficent Offering - Nerfed
Dps
Minor Beserk - Removed
Surprise Attack - Nerfed
Major Fracure - Removed
Major Breach - Removed
Impale - Nerfed
Incap - Nerfed
Major Defile - Removed
Tank
Sap Essence - Nerfed
Swallow Souls - Nerfed 3x
Dark Cloak - Nerfed
Let me know if I have missed anything.
I think their Aoe got nerfed too. Its called path or something
yeah refreshing path...the heal it gives on an alkosh/torugs/earthgore tank setup is @ 750 on a khajiit race...while on the same racial/setup on a DK their ash clouds give over 1100 heal/s...at the current values...funny how zos thinks dks are so weak that they are buffinf coagulant blood by 19% and completely removing nb burst self heal that wasn't as solid and good as dragonblood but it wasn't current hp dependant and was giving a good survivability...while putting NB tanks on the 3rd place of the plate...now we got completely thrown off the table...thx zos..rly appreciated...*** healers...soon to be *** tanks(yes nb tank currently its decent but dk has a more solid kit that puts everyone in a shadow sadly...even so nb tanks rly good)...and decent single target dps...atleast for now that haven't changed...who knows they have time to hit harder...also the other clasess get full buffs and power pump...while dks once againt become the demigods of nirn...guess this is what "balance" means.
this is how we will probably end.
I will be using a part of youre text to make the argument to Dev team. Thank you. Keep it coming.0 -
NupidStoob✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »TBH. I shy away from these conversations because they're toxic and just a bunch of hating really.
But NB have been
Tank: Low tier (sap tank nerfed)
Healer: Low tier (damage while healing nerfed)
Aoe: Low Tier (never excelled)
Single target: They excelled
Theyve been nerfed out of contention in every category. Single target was all they had left.
But ultimately single target was all that was taken into considered while all other playstyles were nerfed into non-existence and ignored.
Other classes that excel in those other areas will now be able to equal to or surpass them in single target. All the while maintaining superiority in tanking, healing, AoE, etc.
Think: Suprise attack was considered over loaded due to fracture and resistance. *On a single target.* I can sub assault and apply major fracture to an entire group with high burst. While having a way longer duration on resistance buffs.
I just dont get that hating on nb tbh
/shrug
Thing is if you play meta builds rather than odd builds there isn't even a low tier. You can clear everything just fine by being any class in any role.
Tank: Mid Tier. One spec got nerfed (saptank), you could still tank just fine otherwise. With the upcoming burst heal nerf it remains to be seen.
Healer: Mid Tier: Again one spec got nerfed which was the crazy amount of offhealing. I healed both vHoF and vMoL easily on my NB and I am sure it wouldn't be a problem for HM either.
AOE: Watch any score run for vHoF (since the trash there is rather sturdy) in the last two patches and see how they just melt under 8 stamblades and a coordinated group.
Single Target: Far ahead of other specs
When Morrowind came we had petsorc meta shortly, followed by stamDK with heavy attack meta. That also got gutted shortly after. Ever since then nightblade has reigned supreme as stamina DPS class in PvE both in their magicka and stamina spec. That is over one and a half years. Recent templar buffs have given magplar a chance to compete with magblade (not with stamblade). The emergence of the bow/bow meta briefly made stamsorc (only because prey buffs spiders) and stamden shine, but in the end stamblade came out on top for being more consistent and self reliant.
Ever since the removal of minor toughness from warhorn and adding it to warden the average score raidgroup looked like this:
1 DK Maintank (Minor brutality groupbuff, engulfing to buff fire damage if you had mNBs)
1 Warden Offtank/dps (Minor toughness groupbuff, budding seeds synergy for alkosh uptime)
1 Plar healer (Minor sorcery groupbuff, power of the light debuff, 2 synergies for alkosh uptime in shards and some fights purify)
1 Sorc Healer/offDPS (Minor Prophecy, Minor Intellect, synergy for alkosh)
8 nightblades as DPS in varying distribution between stamina and magicka
For vAS you might bring one sorc DD as interupter to gives easier minor prophecy to all DDs.
With recent patches you could bring magplars into vCR instead of magblades as they have more cleave damage which is incredibly valuable in vCR+3. Magblades are still valuable there for downstairs. The plarhealer would swap to warden healer and all 3 tanks would be DKs for highest engulfing uptime on every target present.
I would prefer if they would remove minor berserk from Warden as well or at least make them cast wings for it. This would accomplish that the second healer that is more a DPS nowadays would have to focus more on healing again in order to keep combat prayer up. Nowadays with 8nbs/wardens in a raid it can straight up be dropped from the bars unless you go for world records and don't want your nightblades to refresh focus in execute when they could use another killer's blade instead.
For PvP
Stamblade has been competitive with other classes ever since one tamriel. In between they struggled a little here and there, but usually they have been fine if not pretty much at the top in certain situations. Their only downside is that they struggle in groupplay.
Magblade on the other hand suffers and I can understand the disappointment of the few people that still play it. I have long since made my magblade a healer since that is the only way for it to still feel good to play.
I get you guys are upset that your class is getting nerfed, but OP is right. Wait until stuff hits live and until you have played it and adapted to make a real judgement. At least play on the PTS before you freak out over things that might not be so bad in the end.1 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Soooo. Play like the endgame players which is tops, minority 8% of the games population just so we dont get nerfed?
You cant be serious.
0 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭NupidStoob wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »TBH. I shy away from these conversations because they're toxic and just a bunch of hating really.
But NB have been
Tank: Low tier (sap tank nerfed)
Healer: Low tier (damage while healing nerfed)
Aoe: Low Tier (never excelled)
Single target: They excelled
Theyve been nerfed out of contention in every category. Single target was all they had left.
But ultimately single target was all that was taken into considered while all other playstyles were nerfed into non-existence and ignored.
Other classes that excel in those other areas will now be able to equal to or surpass them in single target. All the while maintaining superiority in tanking, healing, AoE, etc.
Think: Suprise attack was considered over loaded due to fracture and resistance. *On a single target.* I can sub assault and apply major fracture to an entire group with high burst. While having a way longer duration on resistance buffs.
I just dont get that hating on nb tbh
/shrug
Thing is if you play meta builds rather than odd builds there isn't even a low tier. You can clear everything just fine by being any class in any role.
Tank: Mid Tier. One spec got nerfed (saptank), you could still tank just fine otherwise. With the upcoming burst heal nerf it remains to be seen.
Healer: Mid Tier: Again one spec got nerfed which was the crazy amount of offhealing. I healed both vHoF and vMoL easily on my NB and I am sure it wouldn't be a problem for HM either.
AOE: Watch any score run for vHoF (since the trash there is rather sturdy) in the last two patches and see how they just melt under 8 stamblades and a coordinated group.
Single Target: Far ahead of other specs
When Morrowind came we had petsorc meta shortly, followed by stamDK with heavy attack meta. That also got gutted shortly after. Ever since then nightblade has reigned supreme as stamina DPS class in PvE both in their magicka and stamina spec. That is over one and a half years. Recent templar buffs have given magplar a chance to compete with magblade (not with stamblade). The emergence of the bow/bow meta briefly made stamsorc (only because prey buffs spiders) and stamden shine, but in the end stamblade came out on top for being more consistent and self reliant.
Ever since the removal of minor toughness from warhorn and adding it to warden the average score raidgroup looked like this:
1 DK Maintank (Minor brutality groupbuff, engulfing to buff fire damage if you had mNBs)
1 Warden Offtank/dps (Minor toughness groupbuff, budding seeds synergy for alkosh uptime)
1 Plar healer (Minor sorcery groupbuff, power of the light debuff, 2 synergies for alkosh uptime in shards and some fights purify)
1 Sorc Healer/offDPS (Minor Prophecy, Minor Intellect, synergy for alkosh)
8 nightblades as DPS in varying distribution between stamina and magicka
For vAS you might bring one sorc DD as interupter to gives easier minor prophecy to all DDs.
With recent patches you could bring magplars into vCR instead of magblades as they have more cleave damage which is incredibly valuable in vCR+3. Magblades are still valuable there for downstairs. The plarhealer would swap to warden healer and all 3 tanks would be DKs for highest engulfing uptime on every target present.
I would prefer if they would remove minor berserk from Warden as well or at least make them cast wings for it. This would accomplish that the second healer that is more a DPS nowadays would have to focus more on healing again in order to keep combat prayer up. Nowadays with 8nbs/wardens in a raid it can straight up be dropped from the bars unless you go for world records and don't want your nightblades to refresh focus in execute when they could use another killer's blade instead.
For PvP
Stamblade has been competitive with other classes ever since one tamriel. In between they struggled a little here and there, but usually they have been fine if not pretty much at the top in certain situations. Their only downside is that they struggle in groupplay.
Magblade on the other hand suffers and I can understand the disappointment of the few people that still play it. I have long since made my magblade a healer since that is the only way for it to still feel good to play.
I get you guys are upset that your class is getting nerfed, but OP is right. Wait until stuff hits live and until you have played it and adapted to make a real judgement. At least play on the PTS before you freak out over things that might not be so bad in the end.
Lets not assume who has and hasnt tested.
Secondly, Math is math. Removing minor beserk is an 8% drop on all damage in addition to the loss of their buff.
Vulnerability being attached to a gap closer hinders ranged builds and build diversity in general. Tanks, healers, brawlers, range. etc
Removing major fracture from suprise attack and placing it on mark. A non damaging, one use at a time ability that counters the whole "suprise" in an attack. Additionally requiring nb to attack from behind/sides if utilizing SA debuff.
No access to major defile in their kit.
If you look above, every other playstyle has been hammered. Without much being said about it. Now the last thing the class excells at is being nailed. Waiting is how the class has gotten pigeonholed to this point.
Wait till live you say? Tanks have been waiting for how long now? lol. If it hits live its too late. imho
1 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭The Mantra of the this game
"Play any class any role"
Not
"Play like 8% of the population who plays endgame content."
3 -
NupidStoob✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »NupidStoob wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »TBH. I shy away from these conversations because they're toxic and just a bunch of hating really.
But NB have been
Tank: Low tier (sap tank nerfed)
Healer: Low tier (damage while healing nerfed)
Aoe: Low Tier (never excelled)
Single target: They excelled
Theyve been nerfed out of contention in every category. Single target was all they had left.
But ultimately single target was all that was taken into considered while all other playstyles were nerfed into non-existence and ignored.
Other classes that excel in those other areas will now be able to equal to or surpass them in single target. All the while maintaining superiority in tanking, healing, AoE, etc.
Think: Suprise attack was considered over loaded due to fracture and resistance. *On a single target.* I can sub assault and apply major fracture to an entire group with high burst. While having a way longer duration on resistance buffs.
I just dont get that hating on nb tbh
/shrug
Thing is if you play meta builds rather than odd builds there isn't even a low tier. You can clear everything just fine by being any class in any role.
Tank: Mid Tier. One spec got nerfed (saptank), you could still tank just fine otherwise. With the upcoming burst heal nerf it remains to be seen.
Healer: Mid Tier: Again one spec got nerfed which was the crazy amount of offhealing. I healed both vHoF and vMoL easily on my NB and I am sure it wouldn't be a problem for HM either.
AOE: Watch any score run for vHoF (since the trash there is rather sturdy) in the last two patches and see how they just melt under 8 stamblades and a coordinated group.
Single Target: Far ahead of other specs
When Morrowind came we had petsorc meta shortly, followed by stamDK with heavy attack meta. That also got gutted shortly after. Ever since then nightblade has reigned supreme as stamina DPS class in PvE both in their magicka and stamina spec. That is over one and a half years. Recent templar buffs have given magplar a chance to compete with magblade (not with stamblade). The emergence of the bow/bow meta briefly made stamsorc (only because prey buffs spiders) and stamden shine, but in the end stamblade came out on top for being more consistent and self reliant.
Ever since the removal of minor toughness from warhorn and adding it to warden the average score raidgroup looked like this:
1 DK Maintank (Minor brutality groupbuff, engulfing to buff fire damage if you had mNBs)
1 Warden Offtank/dps (Minor toughness groupbuff, budding seeds synergy for alkosh uptime)
1 Plar healer (Minor sorcery groupbuff, power of the light debuff, 2 synergies for alkosh uptime in shards and some fights purify)
1 Sorc Healer/offDPS (Minor Prophecy, Minor Intellect, synergy for alkosh)
8 nightblades as DPS in varying distribution between stamina and magicka
For vAS you might bring one sorc DD as interupter to gives easier minor prophecy to all DDs.
With recent patches you could bring magplars into vCR instead of magblades as they have more cleave damage which is incredibly valuable in vCR+3. Magblades are still valuable there for downstairs. The plarhealer would swap to warden healer and all 3 tanks would be DKs for highest engulfing uptime on every target present.
I would prefer if they would remove minor berserk from Warden as well or at least make them cast wings for it. This would accomplish that the second healer that is more a DPS nowadays would have to focus more on healing again in order to keep combat prayer up. Nowadays with 8nbs/wardens in a raid it can straight up be dropped from the bars unless you go for world records and don't want your nightblades to refresh focus in execute when they could use another killer's blade instead.
For PvP
Stamblade has been competitive with other classes ever since one tamriel. In between they struggled a little here and there, but usually they have been fine if not pretty much at the top in certain situations. Their only downside is that they struggle in groupplay.
Magblade on the other hand suffers and I can understand the disappointment of the few people that still play it. I have long since made my magblade a healer since that is the only way for it to still feel good to play.
I get you guys are upset that your class is getting nerfed, but OP is right. Wait until stuff hits live and until you have played it and adapted to make a real judgement. At least play on the PTS before you freak out over things that might not be so bad in the end.
Lets not assume who has and hasnt tested.
Secondly, Math is math. Removing minor beserk is an 8% drop on all damage in addition to the loss of their buff.
Vulnerability being attached to a gap closer hinders ranged builds and build diversity in general. Tanks, healers, brawlers, range. etc
Removing major fracture from suprise attack and placing it on mark. A non damaging, one use at a time ability that counters the whole "suprise" in an attack. Additionally requiring nb to attack from behind/sides if utilizing SA debuff.
No access to major defile in their kit.
If you look above, every other playstyle has been hammered. Without much being said about it. Now the last thing the class excells at is being nailed. Waiting is how the class has gotten pigeonholed to this point.
Wait till live you say? Tanks have been waiting for how long now? lol. If it hits live its too late. imho
PTS was monday. Not much testing can be done in that short amount of time.
Yes math is math and the way the math in ESO works out minor berserk rarely ever gives 8% more damage. Besides you get minor vulnerability to make up for it which is also 8%. The only tradeoff is that when swapping targets rapidly you'll be a bit weaker, but when someone else attacks your target too they also deal more damage.
Yes you will need to find other ways to get major fracture. You still have a class ability that gives it, that's more than some others.
Good regarding major defile, not much access to it by other classes either and honestly I can't see how any nightblade would think that incap isn't overloaded at the moment.Soooo. Play like the endgame players which is tops, minority 8% of the games population just so we dont get nerfed?
You cant be serious.
Look if you want to tank on a nightblade there are numerous non meta ways to go about it. Just saptanking has become weaker, but saptanking was low tier tanking anyways as it was selfish. So if you want to be a selfish tank you can easily put on sets for that. There are numerous of those in this game. I am just saying that if you actually bother to play meta builds a nightblade tank wouldn't be low tier. Alone due to their ult generation they bring something to the table. Same for healer.1 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭NupidStoob wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »NupidStoob wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »TBH. I shy away from these conversations because they're toxic and just a bunch of hating really.
But NB have been
Tank: Low tier (sap tank nerfed)
Healer: Low tier (damage while healing nerfed)
Aoe: Low Tier (never excelled)
Single target: They excelled
Theyve been nerfed out of contention in every category. Single target was all they had left.
But ultimately single target was all that was taken into considered while all other playstyles were nerfed into non-existence and ignored.
Other classes that excel in those other areas will now be able to equal to or surpass them in single target. All the while maintaining superiority in tanking, healing, AoE, etc.
Think: Suprise attack was considered over loaded due to fracture and resistance. *On a single target.* I can sub assault and apply major fracture to an entire group with high burst. While having a way longer duration on resistance buffs.
I just dont get that hating on nb tbh
/shrug
Thing is if you play meta builds rather than odd builds there isn't even a low tier. You can clear everything just fine by being any class in any role.
Tank: Mid Tier. One spec got nerfed (saptank), you could still tank just fine otherwise. With the upcoming burst heal nerf it remains to be seen.
Healer: Mid Tier: Again one spec got nerfed which was the crazy amount of offhealing. I healed both vHoF and vMoL easily on my NB and I am sure it wouldn't be a problem for HM either.
AOE: Watch any score run for vHoF (since the trash there is rather sturdy) in the last two patches and see how they just melt under 8 stamblades and a coordinated group.
Single Target: Far ahead of other specs
When Morrowind came we had petsorc meta shortly, followed by stamDK with heavy attack meta. That also got gutted shortly after. Ever since then nightblade has reigned supreme as stamina DPS class in PvE both in their magicka and stamina spec. That is over one and a half years. Recent templar buffs have given magplar a chance to compete with magblade (not with stamblade). The emergence of the bow/bow meta briefly made stamsorc (only because prey buffs spiders) and stamden shine, but in the end stamblade came out on top for being more consistent and self reliant.
Ever since the removal of minor toughness from warhorn and adding it to warden the average score raidgroup looked like this:
1 DK Maintank (Minor brutality groupbuff, engulfing to buff fire damage if you had mNBs)
1 Warden Offtank/dps (Minor toughness groupbuff, budding seeds synergy for alkosh uptime)
1 Plar healer (Minor sorcery groupbuff, power of the light debuff, 2 synergies for alkosh uptime in shards and some fights purify)
1 Sorc Healer/offDPS (Minor Prophecy, Minor Intellect, synergy for alkosh)
8 nightblades as DPS in varying distribution between stamina and magicka
For vAS you might bring one sorc DD as interupter to gives easier minor prophecy to all DDs.
With recent patches you could bring magplars into vCR instead of magblades as they have more cleave damage which is incredibly valuable in vCR+3. Magblades are still valuable there for downstairs. The plarhealer would swap to warden healer and all 3 tanks would be DKs for highest engulfing uptime on every target present.
I would prefer if they would remove minor berserk from Warden as well or at least make them cast wings for it. This would accomplish that the second healer that is more a DPS nowadays would have to focus more on healing again in order to keep combat prayer up. Nowadays with 8nbs/wardens in a raid it can straight up be dropped from the bars unless you go for world records and don't want your nightblades to refresh focus in execute when they could use another killer's blade instead.
For PvP
Stamblade has been competitive with other classes ever since one tamriel. In between they struggled a little here and there, but usually they have been fine if not pretty much at the top in certain situations. Their only downside is that they struggle in groupplay.
Magblade on the other hand suffers and I can understand the disappointment of the few people that still play it. I have long since made my magblade a healer since that is the only way for it to still feel good to play.
I get you guys are upset that your class is getting nerfed, but OP is right. Wait until stuff hits live and until you have played it and adapted to make a real judgement. At least play on the PTS before you freak out over things that might not be so bad in the end.
Lets not assume who has and hasnt tested.
Secondly, Math is math. Removing minor beserk is an 8% drop on all damage in addition to the loss of their buff.
Vulnerability being attached to a gap closer hinders ranged builds and build diversity in general. Tanks, healers, brawlers, range. etc
Removing major fracture from suprise attack and placing it on mark. A non damaging, one use at a time ability that counters the whole "suprise" in an attack. Additionally requiring nb to attack from behind/sides if utilizing SA debuff.
No access to major defile in their kit.
If you look above, every other playstyle has been hammered. Without much being said about it. Now the last thing the class excells at is being nailed. Waiting is how the class has gotten pigeonholed to this point.
Wait till live you say? Tanks have been waiting for how long now? lol. If it hits live its too late. imho
PTS was monday. Not much testing can be done in that short amount of time.
Yes math is math and the way the math in ESO works out minor berserk rarely ever gives 8% more damage. Besides you get minor vulnerability to make up for it which is also 8%. The only tradeoff is that when swapping targets rapidly you'll be a bit weaker, but when someone else attacks your target too they also deal more damage.
Yes you will need to find other ways to get major fracture. You still have a class ability that gives it, that's more than some others.
Good regarding major defile, not much access to it by other classes either and honestly I can't see how any nightblade would think that incap isn't overloaded at the moment.Soooo. Play like the endgame players which is tops, minority 8% of the games population just so we dont get nerfed?
You cant be serious.
Look if you want to tank on a nightblade there are numerous non meta ways to go about it. Just saptanking has become weaker, but saptanking was low tier tanking anyways as it was selfish. So if you want to be a selfish tank you can easily put on sets for that. There are numerous of those in this game. I am just saying that if you actually bother to play meta builds a nightblade tank wouldn't be low tier. Alone due to their ult generation they bring something to the table. Same for healer.
Nb are never mistaken as the "best" tank, group, healer or aoe class. Most of which has been nerfed. But that is generally ignored.
Perhaps newer players only tested this since monday. But this has been the experience for many patches. This isn't new to this patch.
Whether you believe others feel incap was or wasnt overloaded isnt the point.
If this patch was just an incap nerf. fine. Or maybe just minor beserk change. ok. But they hit, damage, sustain, healing, healing debuff, major fracture, etc. all in one go. Then put emphasis on a gap closer, mark target, and attacking from behind. lol. (On a class already in a single target pigeonhole)
Btw keep in mind when mentioning what other classes have, theyre top in healing, tanking, group play and Aoe. But we're ok with nb being punsihed for what theyre good at? (Also, Major defile and fracture are available in Aoe on other classes, while we are justifying single target abilities not having them.)
Anyways, what, specifically, are you suggesting needs more testing?
3 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Minor nerfs huh stop talking out your ass thy are making nb sht af the end I don’t even need to try it I can see with my own eyes what a weak useless pile trash nb will be if these changes go live no one will play nb why would thy when templar will not only hit harder survive better to tht just one example stop trying to sugar coat this sht show it’s insulting 😡If you haven't tried it in the PTR then you cannot speak for the entire population that plays the class. There have been reports by actual PTR players noting that things are fine, so please calm down and stop being accelerated into a false belief.
Edited by Deathlord92 on April 19, 2019 10:16AM2 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Look maybe nb needed some changes but no class deserves to be butchered I was there for mag sorc when thy threaten it with cast times on shields 😔Edited by Deathlord92 on April 19, 2019 10:46AM0 -
Massive_Stain✭✭✭✭Still not as nerfed as the sorc. Stam and magPC: CP 1200+ DroDest, Bringer of light
PS4: CP 1500+ Dro Dest, SoTN, Bringer of light, CragHMs, EoF, IR, TTT
Xbox: CP 450 Fungal Grotto 1 HM0 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tbh. on my NB I allready use only like 3 - 4 NB abilities in total. Mostly to slot them to get the class passives. After those changes ? I dont know if I will use any of the NB class skills on my NB. Just LOL
^ If you are not a NB player then this comes from experiences NB player (I play since launch). So I hope it gives you a pretty good picture how severe the nerfs are.Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on April 19, 2019 11:12AM1 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Okay i play nb bro I know how much damage I’m losing what lot people don’t realise is nb survive ability not as good as other classes and for a reason your damage makes up for it I could get regular 1vxs by being fast and knowing when to burst in update 22 we won’t have burst hitting a hvy build will just snap your nb arm because ur just going to be tht weak 😔Edited by Deathlord92 on April 19, 2019 11:17AM0 -
Raudgrani✭✭✭✭✭
✭If Grim Focus change pass through, breaking stealth/cloak needs to be removed from Camouflaged Hunter/Combat Prayer (I believe they both break stealth/cloak). Preferably, put Minor Berserk upon activation of Camo Hunter too; not necessarily but preferably.
This nerf, intended to hit stamblades primarily, will make magblades even more impossible to play in PVP. I can live with this change, if you change these two Minor Berserk sources. I really, really dislike when you force people into CHANGING playstyle, instead of ADJUSTING it.0 -
Ryknos✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I've played it on PTS (PvP) and I don't think they're fine (both magicka and stamina). Nor do I know any Nightblade main who thinks that they're fine on PTS.Deathlord92 wrote: »I know a nb hater when I see one
From Tequilafire (on another thread)
"My stamblade is doing just fine on PTS.
It will separate those that know how to play a brawler blade from those that don't."
Also I don't hate anyone. Actually I hate social justice warriors. But I think you catch my drift here. Also now you know at least one person who said this and this comment got 7 agrees.Edited by Ryknos on April 19, 2019 4:51PM0