Empowering sweep nerfed

hunter937

I love playing stamplar, unfortunately taking major protection away from empowering sweep is going to cause a lot less opportunity TO GO on the offensive. If the goal is to make major protection harder to come across then I understand. That being said, trading major protection for empower is an incredibly unfair deal and does not even really synergies with the ult. I propose either reverting it to its original form or giving a better effect like minor vulnerability to all enemies in the area or even minor vulnerability to the enemies in front of the player.

Stx

Yep it's a nerf that's going to hurt quite a bit in pvp, tanking, and soloing for me. I really hate it.

Minalan

It's simple, major protection counters the necromancer major vulnerability.

We can't have that, ZOS wants people who pay to win to actually win.

ruikkarikun

Just wondering is there any thing without nerfs in this game?

casparian

The reasoning for the change was so out of touch with actual gameplay.

The Templar has many Ultimates that operate defensively already in their other skill lines (Major Maim from Nova, Major Protection from Remembrance), and we found their toolkit for offensive moments wasn't being given enough opportunity. Back in Update 20, we adjusted Crescent Sweep to deal Magic Damage and introduced a bonus mechanism where enemies hit in a cone in front of you took bonus damage. We wanted the Physical Damage morph to also enable damage, but through alternative means. Now, the entire ability's duration will scale based on enemies hit, and will also grant Empower for the duration.

This change will result in stamplars struggling even more to get "offensive moments", since Emp Sweep was one of the only reliable ways on stamplar to open an offensive window in dangerous situations. Saying that we should get enough protection from Nova and Remembrance would be fine, if those ultimates were actually usable outside of niche situations and/or healer builds. Give me a cheaper PBAOE Nova, or a morph of Remembrance that doesn't immobilize me, and then we can talk.

As it is, all this change does is remove another defensive tool from the stamplar toolkit, which seems to be what happens any time stamplar gets substantial changes.

usmcjdking

An incredibly handy skill in PVE and PVP that's been changed for no apparent reason.

A nice mitigation tool that added some decent damage to boot, has been changed in favor of being hot garbage designed to help Stamplar from becoming completely irrelevant in endgame PVE. Problem being it's still irrelevant in endgame PVE and even more garbage in PVP.

usmcjdking

Stamplar is literally past the point of fine tuning.

You cannot fine tune a Honda Odyssey into a 1/4 mile 10 second pass. Stamplar is a mini-van amongst Corvettes and devs be like "let's turbocharge this 190hp motor for a 10% INCREASE IN POWER! 10% BIG NUMBER! 10%%%%%%%%%%%!!!!!!!!".

Stx

I'm extremely disappointed with this nerf. I live using empowering sweep in battlegrounds and while tanking dungeons or soloing world bosses. The major protection is very effective and valuable.

If this change goes through I probably wont use the skill at all.

wonf

I main a templar tank, and also have a templar healer. I am going to plead for Empowering Sweeps to be left alone with the next Chapter release. This reasoning

"Spoiler
The Templar has many Ultimates that operate defensively already in their other skill lines (Major Maim from Nova, Major Protection from Remembrance), and we found their toolkit for offensive moments wasn't being given enough opportunity. Back in Update 20, we adjusted Crescent Sweep to deal Magic Damage and introduced a bonus mechanism where enemies hit in a cone in front of you took bonus damage. We wanted the Physical Damage morph to also enable damage, but through alternative means. Now, the entire ability's duration will scale based on enemies hit, and will also grant Empower for the duration."

I believe to be misguided. If anything rework the healing ultimate into something useful. It has a few uses in PvP sure but honestly, templar healers have no use for it in the rest of game content. 9/10 times you use it you end up dead at the end because your rooted in place and end up getting stupid dropped all around you. 30% dmg reduction doesn't help on a miserably short 4 sec timer and when the animation delay ends it takes almost another full second to get healing springs back up again and by that time you or your group is dead.

I've only found a few specific boss fights and instances where you can use it as a tank, (vHRC Starfall, vMoL Forgottens shield phase, and vSCP hardmode Statue Phase(if running 3 DPS/1 tank) to only assist/help the healers out and those instances are rare because you need to be able to drop block to do this. SO if you're a tank and in a position in which you have 6 seconds that you can drop block, you don't need 30% additional mitigation, because you aren't trying to block heavies from bosses at these times.

Empowering Sweep has a many more uses, being that it is a reliable source of extra dmg mitigation for both tanks and DPS alike. Perfect for toolkits for vMA, vDSA, vBRP, as well as nearly all DLC vet dungeons and Hardmode content. It alleviates healers from having to heal the worst of the hits, and keeps tanks in one place which ultimately helps DPS do their jobs. Has uses in PvP but doesn't have a long duration unless you are able to stack a Zerg on top of you, in which case 30% mitigation isn't gonna help much.

Alternatively, the suggested Update will make it a cheap/quick source of AE damage, that will only be worthwhile if you are hitting large groups of trash mobs..... it won't out perform DW Rend for dmg and additional healing, won't Burst better than Ballista, and won't have more Pen then 2H Onslaught. It will grant Empower for sure, on a short duration unless you hit 3-4 enemies, and I haven't seen many StamEleWeap/LA builds. Might be a new thing that gets worked up? Bow/Bow maybe? But I'm not really feeling it. And if you really want empower you can always use Solar Barrage on Stamplar. It won't do much damage, but its negligible since you're after the Buff more than the dmg from the skill. Just put it on in place of Vigor, I mean you have repentance anyway.

Don't let this go live. Just leave it alone.

Solariken

I'm pretty sad about this too. The on-demand Major Protection is the thing that makes Templar tanking viable. Without it I can barely survive even the Hulking Werewolves in vMHK.

I also prefer it over Dawnbreaker in battlegrounds because it lets me sometimes get in a full damage combo on someone before I have to start monkey rolling around hoping Troll King will save me.

Kryser

usmcjdking wrote: »

Stamplar is literally past the point of fine tuning.

You cannot fine tune a Honda Odyssey into a 1/4 mile 10 second pass. Stamplar is a mini-van amongst Corvettes and devs be like "let's turbocharge this 190hp motor for a 10% INCREASE IN POWER! 10% BIG NUMBER! 10%%%%%%%%%%%!!!!!!!!".

This made me lol
Cause I'm a stamplar & I have a mini-van and this made me feels

MartiniDaniels

ruikkarikun wrote: »

Just wondering is there any thing without nerfs in this game?

Non-pet sorc is not nerfed while almost all his opponents are, so I'm taking my sorc back from crafters ^^

Fur_like_snow

Does Zeni just want every PvP stam DD build to run DB?

Luckylancer

Reminder: they removed undodheableness of bird and gave nothing back. Not a thing.

Major protection>empower and aoe stun(Dawnbreaker)>empower. I cant see a place a stamplar will prefer sweep over DB in pvp.

LordTareq

The age of the Stamplar is over. The time of the Necromancer has come!

e-rwan

with one target empowering sweep hits for a tad more than flawless dawnbreaker for 60% of the cost.
with a bunch of adds/player around it will hit for even more.
not even talking about empower for the whole duration...

WillhelmBlack

Nobody plays Stamplar so who cares?

technohic

I think right now, empowering sweeps has not been talked about because people dont see it hit enough, but the major protection on it is severely underrated. DBOS seems to burst and hit more do I often use DBOS first, then go into empowering sweeps as the fights draw on because stamplar otherwise needs to rely on LOS.

They must be relying on the range increase being enough to push it over the edge but I think the empower falls way short in that it doesn't really synergize well with stamplar. Actually not sure why they keep pushing empower with templar when we have had the fewest LA weaves until now.

Them saying major protection is redundant while giving it empower when we have solar barrage diesnt make sense either. A stamplar wont use it but nor would they use nova.

If nothing else, we need a defensive accessible to stamplar specifically

e-rwan

I play stampler, and i'll be replacing the bow ult for empowering sweep.

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Nobody plays Stamplar so who cares?

I play stamplar, and i'll be replacin the bow ult by empowering sweep next patch.

Stx

Very depressing to see major protection go from this ultimate. I will never use it now. It was amazing as a brawler ultimate in pvp and solo pve.

Starlock

Stx wrote: »

Very depressing to see major protection go from this ultimate. I will never use it now. It was amazing as a brawler ultimate in pvp and solo pve.

It was pretty good for tanking too. I would usually have this slotted on my templar tank. Now he won't have a single class ultimate worth slotting. It's so sad.

Xogath

Don't worry, most of the class changes this PTS cycle have made little to no sense. It doesn't surprise me at all they took something handy away from Stamplars.

Shame, I was going to roll one after I got a taste of what Necromancer was like.

Mr_Nobody

Xogath wrote: »

Don't worry, most of the class changes this PTS cycle have made little to no sense. It doesn't surprise me at all they took something handy away from Stamplars.

Shame, I was going to roll one after I got a taste of what Necromancer was like.

Is that a surprise? They know the class is dead PvP wise so they are not bothering with it anymore. What they dont know is how to fix it, and I get it, how can you fix anything when you got interns doing that.

Whats funny though is that when they try to 'pretend' they are actually doing something with Templars or any other class, it is us, little step childs who get the bang.

Example, an OP ability of an X class is being adjusted, so to compensate - Templars receive a nerf.

Or a Trial boss X is being fixed, thus to compensate we are nerfing/adjusting Templars.

Honestly the further it goes im starting to like ZoS, the guys there must have a really good sense of humor trolling us.

Xogath

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Xogath wrote: »

Don't worry, most of the class changes this PTS cycle have made little to no sense. It doesn't surprise me at all they took something handy away from Stamplars.

Shame, I was going to roll one after I got a taste of what Necromancer was like.

Is that a surprise? They know the class is dead PvP wise so they are not bothering with it anymore. What they dont know is how to fix it, and I get it, how can you fix anything when you got interns doing that.

Whats funny though is that when they try to 'pretend' they are actually doing something with Templars or any other class, it is us, little step childs who get the bang.

Example, an OP ability of an X class is being adjusted, so to compensate - Templars receive a nerf.

Or a Trial boss X is being fixed, thus to compensate we are nerfing/adjusting Templars.

Honestly the further it goes im starting to like ZoS, the guys there must have a really good sense of humor trolling us.

To be honest, as far as PvP is concerned, I think the real problem balance-wise is CP.

Disabling CP across all PvP would be a good start.. then balance would lie solely with ability damage coefficients. At this point they could simply balance around ability morphs.. one being more PvP/utility oriented, the other being more PvE oriented. The only problem with that would be ability scaling.. so they'd have to add dynamic scaling to everything, and that would likely be a mess.

So I dunno, but I do agree.. balance in this game is totally out of control, and mostly for the worse.

That said, I ran in to quite a few Templars (mostly seemingly Stamplars) while leveling my StamDK via BGs.. and they were quite devastating if not focused quickly.. partially the reason I'd decided to finally roll one. That, and one of the best tanks I've ever seen in a vHM dungeon run was a Templar. That guy's presence in the dungeon was freaking amazing.. NPCs never had a chance to touch anyone else but the tank.

Mitaka211

Templar , tons of ignored feedback. Meanwhile i am surprised how everyone missed the nerf to oblivion damage because a couple of magsorcs cried about having a counter to their absurd survivability (counter is like a really strong way of putting it lol, unless your whole gear sets revolve around oblivion damage) . All they have to do is scream a bit and they get what they want. But not templars nooo. All we get are whole numbers and an even more useless ult.

The team responsible for "combat balance" are a bunch of Nb, magsorc mains i swear there is not other way of explaining all the attention these two classes always get lol. The way they tried to ninja buff NB ult again was so funny to me. I have no clue what these people are thinking at this point.

Look at peek pvp hours and tell me which are the two classes you always see in a game. A diverse bg for me is when i encounter a full team of magsorcs spamming aoe all over the place lol. Can't even remember the last time i saw another stamplar lol.

Druid40

Why? That ultimate is already underutilized in PVP and PVE. Why not give it an unnamed 15-20% damage reduction?