ESO Logs consent is not GDPR Compliant. Very promising.

ryzen_gamer_gal · April 2019

So the legal battle will include who is or is not considered to be a natural person?

VaranisArano · April 2019

Jhalin wrote: »

I wouldn’t hold up EU as good online policy authorities after they decided to make every little thing a copyright infringement so Twitch, YouTube, basically any platform for content creators, is basically taboo in EU law

ESOLogs is less dangerous than your social media account. Your character name has no trace to your @ name as I understand it, and anything linked to an @ name requires that same person be signed up on the service

There’s no threat to privacy here at all. If you don’t run raids, you’ll see no different in your interactions with other players. If you run solo, you can use it for yourself and absolutely no one else is going to care who you are. Your pugs will forget you just like you forget them, and you are not able to retroactively record encounters so who the hell cares if a rando was bad.

You really think people want to load up their drives with pointless pug runs? You really think anyone cares enough to be a troll to bog down their own computer every single time they pug a dungeon or trial just to talk down to someone after they waste ten minutes processing and uploding the log?

I'm not really concerned about that.

I'm more concerned with players logging their own encounters, uploading those publicly, and thus making those logs available for browsing, searching and ranking - with character IDs of their group members included and directly tied to their combat data. Even uploading as private or unlisted still means the logger can share the data with whoever they like.

That's something ESO Logs is designed to do. That's a situation that will happen. In of itself, that's not a good or bad thing. Its just how ESO Logs works. If you are in a recorded encounter that gets uploaded, your character ID will be in that log unless you set yourself to Anonymous. If that log is Public, your character ID is available for others to search and collate data on, unless you set yourself to Anonymous.

That's a problem if character ID is shown by default. That means that every player ever is assumed to consent to having their character ID and logs be uploaded, shared, and publicly available for browsing, searches, and ranking. There's good reason to expect that many players won't know to set themselves to Anonymous if they don't what their character id shown in someone else's log.

That's not a problem if the default is Anonymous. There, if the log contains a character ID, everyone knows that player consented to have their character ID + data shared with whoever the logger wants, or for it to be publicly available for browsing, searches, and ranking.

In short, making Anonymous the default solves my concerns with how ESO Logs treats its recorded data.

Ogou · April 2019

ENER-23 wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

ENER-23 wrote: »

logging to 3rd party sites should be disable by default, anonymous or not.

i have no problem with dps logs but a 3rd party site thats use logs to monetize Data, i cant even opt out.

First, there seem to be a misconception here. The data is not automatically uploaded to a third party. Someone has to log it first and then upload it.

Second, where did you get the idea that the Encounter Log Data were being monetized?

I cant opt out from the logging if someone use it.

the site have ads and patreon, they make money with user data shown in graphs.
i have no problem with it if i can opt out

The problem with that is that without your data (anonymized or not) the logs become incomplete and useless. I agree that anonymized should be the default but opting out completely shouldn't be an option.

Sorry, I thought you meant they were selling the data. In that case it's not any different from esoleaderboards.com so I still don't see an issue.

bharathitman · April 2019

So the 5k dps club is fighting back?

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2019

Mayrael wrote: »

Your personal opinion has nothing to do with actual law.

Neither is yours, nor the opinion of your colleague at work, even if he's a lawyer.

Mayrael wrote: »

Just to make sure, I didn't talked with them about nicknames in game. We talked about real data.

Nickmanes are pseudonyms. Pseudonyms are real, personal data. Deal with it.

_____________

@VaranisArano : how do you manage to be so incredibly patient ? Kudos !

_____________

bharathitman wrote: »

So the 5k dps club is fighting back?

Yeah, noone should worry about toxicity, should they ?

VaranisArano · April 2019

zTrok wrote: »

Not sure what the fuss over this whole thing is. The logs are going to be super helpful as a raid lead, and I'm pretty sure the pugs in a fungal grotto 1 won't care that you can't do more than 10k dps, so what's the issue?

If I were to present a hypothetical situation...

Actually, scratch that. This isn't that hypothetical.

My SO hasn't played ESO for a while now. I haven't mentioned this tool to them yet.

Lets say they log on after a long hiatus, hop into a dungeon, business as usual. Someone in the group is interested in finding out their own combat data and logs the encounter and uploads it. That person is really only interested in their info. Still, my SO's character ID is on that log, able to be shared with anyone. If the log is uploaded as public, my SO's character ID is available for searching, browsing, or ranking. Once posted, my SO would have to go through a couple steps to get that info made Anonymous.

My SO, being as how they were returning and don't pay attention to the forums, nor have any reason to check their Combat Settings, is assumed by default to consent to having their character ID directly connected to the combat data, and to have that on ESO Logs, shareable with whoever the uploader wants or made publicly available.

Now, while I would probably mention the Anonymous setting to my SO, its easy for me to see how that could impact any returning player or any new player. Truthfully, I'm not too concerned about the informed players on the forums.

My main issue with ESO Logs is simply that it assumes our consent. I wish it were Anonymous, unless you choose otherwise.

VaranisArano · April 2019

ENER-23 wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

ENER-23 wrote: »

logging to 3rd party sites should be disable by default, anonymous or not.

i have no problem with dps logs but a 3rd party site thats use logs to monetize Data, i cant even opt out.

First, there seem to be a misconception here. The data is not automatically uploaded to a third party. Someone has to log it first and then upload it.

Second, where did you get the idea that the Encounter Log Data were being monetized?

I cant opt out from the logging if someone use it.

the site have ads and patreon, they make money with user data shown in graphs.
i have no problem with it if i can opt out

You can't opt out from the log, but if you are set to Anonymous (or Anonymous becomes the default) you never have to worry about the 3rd party site at all.

Now, yes, even if anonymous, your in game ID can be associated with the data by extrapolation if someone in your group really wants to, but the same is true for Combat Metrics and ZOS is fine with that.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2019

zTrok wrote: »

Not sure what the fuss over this whole thing is. The logs are going to be super helpful as a raid lead, and I'm pretty sure the pugs in a fungal grotto 1 won't care that you can't do more than 10k dps, so what's the issue?

Doesn't have to be about DPS.
Let's see John, student and ESO player. John has a very nice girlfriend, a lot of stuff to study for his studies, and enjoys playing ESO. Now there's this group raid on thursday night with his guild. And Jane - she's the girlfriend - wants to go out somewhere. Now John tells Jane that he has an important exam on friday morning, promises to study a lot and to go to bed early, kisses her good night and sits comfortably in front of his PC and prepares for raiding. Everything is fine, until the next morning, Jane sees the raid log on esologs...
I'm not sure that scenario takes so much weed to imagine. It's everyday stuff really. The part where the log says exactly what you've been doing in the game and when is already a problem.

pelle412 · April 2019

I am happy this tool exists and I will definitely use it. Now where are the cookies?

VaranisArano · April 2019

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

zTrok wrote: »

Not sure what the fuss over this whole thing is. The logs are going to be super helpful as a raid lead, and I'm pretty sure the pugs in a fungal grotto 1 won't care that you can't do more than 10k dps, so what's the issue?

Doesn't have to be about DPS.
Let's see John, student and ESO player. John has a very nice girlfriend, a lot of stuff to study for his studies, and enjoys playing ESO. Now there's this group raid on thursday night with his guild. And Jane wants to go out somewhere. Now John tells Jane that he has an important exam on friday morning, promises to study a lot and to go to bed early, kisses her good night and sits comfortably in front of his PC and prepares for raiding. Everything is fine, until the next morning, Jane sees the raid log on esologs...
I'm not sure that scenario takes so much weed too imagine. It's everyday stuff really. The part where the log says exactly what you've been doing in the game and when is already a problem.

Not going to lie - this made me laugh! Poor John!

*John gets on Discord*
"Guys, I propose a new guild rule that we don't post our parses publicly."

"Why not?"

"My girlfriend saw the parse. She isn't speaking to me anymore."

"Is that because you blew her off to raid with us? Or is it because your healing done percentage sucked compared to the other healer?"

"I hate you guys."

Ogou · April 2019

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

zTrok wrote: »

Not sure what the fuss over this whole thing is. The logs are going to be super helpful as a raid lead, and I'm pretty sure the pugs in a fungal grotto 1 won't care that you can't do more than 10k dps, so what's the issue?

Doesn't have to be about DPS.
Let's see John, student and ESO player. John has a very nice girlfriend, a lot of stuff to study for his studies, and enjoys playing ESO. Now there's this group raid on thursday night with his guild. And Jane - she's the girlfriend - wants to go out somewhere. Now John tells Jane that he has an important exam on friday morning, promises to study a lot and to go to bed early, kisses her good night and sits comfortably in front of his PC and prepares for raiding. Everything is fine, until the next morning, Jane sees the raid log on esologs...
I'm not sure that scenario takes so much weed too imagine. It's everyday stuff really. The part where the log says exactly what you've been doing in the game and when is already a problem.

There is an option to only allow guild members to see the logs. Don't remember if you can restrict it any further.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2019

Ogou wrote: »

There is an option to only allow guild members to see the logs. Don't remember if you can restrict it any further.

Problem is, you don't get to decide that, unless you're the uploader. And anyone can upload however they wish. You have no right of veto whatsoever. You only have the right to set yourself to "anonymous" - which many end game groups may refuse since it would probably be tedious to analyze in-depth a log with several "anonymous" players.
Anyway, we can't go here into every detail of every particular situation that may occur. I'm just saying that logging/staying logged on a site with search functionality is actually a privacy issue. Whether or not it's being outweighted by the advantages of the tool is, of course, subjective.
But the default setting being set to "anonymous" is the bare minimum requirement (and doesn't really hurt anyone), while an opportunity to completely opt-out would be an even better design (while it would hurt some, I understand that).

FierceSam · April 2019

Except my gamertag/ username IS mine, I use it on many sites aside from ESO. It clearly identifies me to ZOS and is clearly associated with my real name and personal identity in ZOS’s log in system and many others.

Again I am not bothered at all by what people want to do with THEIR data. I just don’t want them to have access to mine without my knowledge or permission.

Ydrisselle · April 2019

Kittenhood wrote: »

Hello yes,
I registered for the forums to clear up a lot of misconceptions that seem to be 'spreading around', so to speak, in this thread and others.

@RANKK7
That 'cookies' message on ESOLogs has always been there in some form or fashion.
ESOLogs.com is not affiliated with Zenimax Online Studios nor is it a subsidiary or actively endorsed. It is a third-party website and as such almost half, maybe 3/4ths of your original post is a moot point.

Furthermore, please refer to two of the links mentioned in brief, both the ESOLogs website's FAQ and more importantly, that 'Cookies and You' website that tells you how to disable cookies.

The ESOLogs FAQ
https://www.esologs.com/help/start

https://cookies.insites.com/disable-cookies/
This shows you how to disable cookies on a browser-by-browser and Operating System basis - and is what you linked to in your OP yet didn't bother to read, apparently.

Furthermore, recording combat logs is entirely voluntary, and is not done automatically by the game. It is something that a user has to trigger on their own, per ESOLogs' FAQ.

Idinuse wrote: »

In fact it’s not cookies only. It’s about gathering data in general and or tracking an online user, not only on web sites, but any online service.

Although having your actions recorded and stored on your or someone else’s hard drive with or without consent might be considered a cookie.

This is entirely or partially incorrect and very messy.

https://eugdpr.org/
It's probably worth mentioning, everyone in this thread irrespective of what they think they know can at any time use a search engine such as Google, Bing, Yahoo, etc. to look up the terms of this legislation.

I had never heard of ESOLogs prior to seeing this messy post, but after not even 20 seconds of combing through their website, I found their FAQ, I searched my name (both @Kittenhood and Kittenhood) and found no record of myself.

I haven't used this third-party service (keyword: third party) but I have done enough trials (both veteran and non-veteran) to have come across multiple people using this service to measure their and their teams' output.

And on a final note, your non-essential information in regards to gameplay such as combat statistics in a videogame may not implicitly be covered or even protected by the GDPR, which focuses on data collection on platforms such as Facebook and Google-affiliated services such as GMail (used for personal habits and advertising purposes, which is scary) and even more importantly things such as medical records.

In my opinion this thread may need to be locked before it turns into a flame war - it also serves no purpose other than the spread of misinformation by the OP (Original Poster).

You don't need a law degree - you just need a smartphone.

@Kittenhood
Yes, you won't find yourself on ESOLogs yet - because right now it's only working on the PTS, and only from yesterday. So I'm sure you didn't raid together with anyone on the live servers who are using it, since nobody can do that now

Gilvoth · April 2019

just like that other guy said, he will look up peoples name in the group online list, and if he does not like the numbers u have on a that list, he boot you immediate.

Jeremy · April 2019

From my understanding of the GDPR: this argument boils down to the question whether or not a person's account name is considered personal information.

VaranisArano · April 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

From my understanding of the GDPR: this argument boils down to the question whether or not a person's account name is considered personal information.

There is that aspect to it.

This particular thread is mostly about whether or not the ESO Logs website has GDPR compliant cookies/consent to use cookies.

But since none of us are actually GDPR experts AFAIK, we're mostly forum lawyering

Ydrisselle · April 2019

Here is the first test of the tool by @majulook :

majulook wrote: »

So on PTS I made myself a template character, set them to Anonymous found a place that had so bad guys, started the log process, and started fighting stuff for few minutes, and ended the logging process.

I started looking at the log, could not find any identifiable info like my @name or character name This is good anonymous works as it is supposed. I did see my class since the log shows my gear and abilities.

I looking through the log found that it that picked up another player that was in the area. This player was not anonymous and shows a @name and what I believe is character name which if they were not anonymous it should show.

I was not in a group, and it picked him up, which I did not realize was possible as I thought it was a a group only tool. I looked back through the threads and yep, it is stated that logger will pickup anyone around the person using the logging process.

Just be sure if you do not want to have your @name or character name picked up by the logging process set yourself to anonymous.

I will most likely use this or be in a group that wants to use it at some point.

IMHO (and that's all this my opinion) this tool needs to be set to Anonymous by default.

Note:

Almost all of the info in the log is strings of info like the following snippets of my info that was logged, you can see one of the named monster that I fought and the ability they used against me. ALL of the below snippets are of the log prior to the added player :

4055,ABILITY_INFO,46356,"Force Pulse","/esoui/art/icons/ability_destructionstaff_001b.dds",T,T
4055,ABILITY_INFO,117637,"Ricochet Skull","/esoui/art/icons/ability_necromancer_001_b.dds",F,T
4055,ABILITY_INFO,117919,"Hexproof","/esoui/art/icons/ability_necromancer_014_a.dds",F,T
4055,ABILITY_INFO,118623,"Deaden Pain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_necromancer_011_a.dds",F,T
4055,ABILITY_INFO,118008,"Mystic Siphon","/esoui/art/icons/ability_necromancer_005_a.dds",F,T
4055,ABILITY_INFO,122388,"Glacial Colossus","/esoui/art/icons/ability_necromancer_006_a.dds",F,T
4055,ABILITY_INFO,39167,"Storm Pulsar","/esoui/art/icons/ability_destructionstaff_009_b.dds",T,T
4055,ABILITY_INFO,118912,"Spirit Guardian","/esoui/art/icons/ability_necromancer_015_a.dds",F,T
4055,ABILITY_INFO,118279,"Ravenous Goliath","/esoui/art/icons/ability_necromancer_012_b.dds",F,T

[CHEST,149281,T,16,ARMOR_DIVINES,LEGENDARY,440,MAGICKA,T,16,LEGENDARY],
[MAIN_HAND,150029,T,16,WEAPON_PRECISE,LEGENDARY,444,ABSORB_MAGICKA,T,16,LEGENDARY],

5580,COMBAT_EVENT,HOT_TICK,GENERIC,MAGICKA,0,5677,3315959,34836,5533,17150/17150,40102/40102,12389/12389,411/500,0/1000,0,0.6406,0.2403,1.6157,*
6018,UNIT_ADDED,5479,MONSTER,F,0,88412,F,0,0,"Euraxian Knight","",0,50,160,0,HOSTILE,F
6018,ABILITY_INFO,34646,"Lava Whip","/esoui/art/icons/ability_dragonknight_001.dds",F,T
6018,BEGIN_CAST,1800,F,3318063,34646,5479,34501/34501,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0,0.6582,0.2587,0.9362,1,20609/20609,40767/40767,14130/15567,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6575,0.2582,3.4591
6252,COMBAT_EVENT,ABILITY_ON_COOLDOWN,FIRE,INVALID,0,0,4294967295,117637,1,20609/20609,40767/40767,14130/15567,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6575,0.2582,4.0086,*

It's recording everybody even if they aren't in a group with you. That's why the default setting should be 'anonymous' for everyone.

Ogou · April 2019

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

There is an option to only allow guild members to see the logs. Don't remember if you can restrict it any further.

Problem is, you don't get to decide that, unless you're the uploader. And anyone can upload however they wish. You have no right of veto whatsoever. You only have the right to set yourself to "anonymous" - which many end game groups may refuse since it would probably be tedious to analyze in-depth a log with several "anonymous" players.
Anyway, we can't go here into every detail of every particular situation that may occur. I'm just saying that logging/staying logged on a site with search functionality is actually a privacy issue. Whether or not it's being outweighted by the advantages of the tool is, of course, subjective.
But the default setting being set to "anonymous" is the bare minimum requirement (and doesn't really hurt anyone), while an opportunity to completely opt-out would be an even better design (while it would hurt some, I understand that).

In that case you would know that your leader would be putting it up publicly. This is no more of a privacy issue than someone uploading the video of your run to youtube or streaming it on twitch. You could always cherry pick a scenario where for some reason the given tools of anonymity would fail.
Even your example doesn't work because John wouldn't be able to participate in the raid if he opted out of the logs anyways.

Giving the logs an opt out option makes them as useful as the current option we have (CMX) so why even do it at this point?

disintegr8 · April 2019

GDPR is a load of namby pamby feel good legislation to make people feel safe from the monster under their bed.

The world has bigger issues to deal with.

VaranisArano · April 2019

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Kittenhood wrote: »

Hello yes,
I registered for the forums to clear up a lot of misconceptions that seem to be 'spreading around', so to speak, in this thread and others.

@RANKK7
That 'cookies' message on ESOLogs has always been there in some form or fashion.
ESOLogs.com is not affiliated with Zenimax Online Studios nor is it a subsidiary or actively endorsed. It is a third-party website and as such almost half, maybe 3/4ths of your original post is a moot point.

Furthermore, please refer to two of the links mentioned in brief, both the ESOLogs website's FAQ and more importantly, that 'Cookies and You' website that tells you how to disable cookies.

The ESOLogs FAQ
https://www.esologs.com/help/start

https://cookies.insites.com/disable-cookies/
This shows you how to disable cookies on a browser-by-browser and Operating System basis - and is what you linked to in your OP yet didn't bother to read, apparently.

Furthermore, recording combat logs is entirely voluntary, and is not done automatically by the game. It is something that a user has to trigger on their own, per ESOLogs' FAQ.

Idinuse wrote: »

In fact it’s not cookies only. It’s about gathering data in general and or tracking an online user, not only on web sites, but any online service.

Although having your actions recorded and stored on your or someone else’s hard drive with or without consent might be considered a cookie.

This is entirely or partially incorrect and very messy.

https://eugdpr.org/
It's probably worth mentioning, everyone in this thread irrespective of what they think they know can at any time use a search engine such as Google, Bing, Yahoo, etc. to look up the terms of this legislation.

I had never heard of ESOLogs prior to seeing this messy post, but after not even 20 seconds of combing through their website, I found their FAQ, I searched my name (both @Kittenhood and Kittenhood) and found no record of myself.

I haven't used this third-party service (keyword: third party) but I have done enough trials (both veteran and non-veteran) to have come across multiple people using this service to measure their and their teams' output.

And on a final note, your non-essential information in regards to gameplay such as combat statistics in a videogame may not implicitly be covered or even protected by the GDPR, which focuses on data collection on platforms such as Facebook and Google-affiliated services such as GMail (used for personal habits and advertising purposes, which is scary) and even more importantly things such as medical records.

In my opinion this thread may need to be locked before it turns into a flame war - it also serves no purpose other than the spread of misinformation by the OP (Original Poster).

You don't need a law degree - you just need a smartphone.

Kittenhood
Yes, you won't find yourself on ESOLogs yet - because right now it's only working on the PTS, and only from yesterday. So I'm sure you didn't raid together with anyone on the live servers who are using it, since nobody can do that now

In addition, during the PTS, all logs are private.

Ogou wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

zTrok wrote: »

Not sure what the fuss over this whole thing is. The logs are going to be super helpful as a raid lead, and I'm pretty sure the pugs in a fungal grotto 1 won't care that you can't do more than 10k dps, so what's the issue?

Doesn't have to be about DPS.
Let's see John, student and ESO player. John has a very nice girlfriend, a lot of stuff to study for his studies, and enjoys playing ESO. Now there's this group raid on thursday night with his guild. And Jane - she's the girlfriend - wants to go out somewhere. Now John tells Jane that he has an important exam on friday morning, promises to study a lot and to go to bed early, kisses her good night and sits comfortably in front of his PC and prepares for raiding. Everything is fine, until the next morning, Jane sees the raid log on esologs...
I'm not sure that scenario takes so much weed too imagine. It's everyday stuff really. The part where the log says exactly what you've been doing in the game and when is already a problem.

There is an option to only allow guild members to see the logs. Don't remember if you can restrict it any further.

The options, as described by Kihra: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5963362#Comment_5963362

Kihra wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

So our group wants to use the tool with all the details visible, no one's anonymous. We upload it - is there an option that only members of our group will be able to see and analyse that log?

Yes, logs on the site can be public, private or unlisted.

Public = anyone can see them
Unlisted = anyone can see them as long as they know the URL to go to
Private = only people who have signed up an become members of the guild on the site can see them.

At the moment, all logs are forced to Private and will be for the duration of the PTS NDA.

Ydrisselle · April 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Kittenhood wrote: »

Hello yes,
I registered for the forums to clear up a lot of misconceptions that seem to be 'spreading around', so to speak, in this thread and others.

@RANKK7
That 'cookies' message on ESOLogs has always been there in some form or fashion.
ESOLogs.com is not affiliated with Zenimax Online Studios nor is it a subsidiary or actively endorsed. It is a third-party website and as such almost half, maybe 3/4ths of your original post is a moot point.

Furthermore, please refer to two of the links mentioned in brief, both the ESOLogs website's FAQ and more importantly, that 'Cookies and You' website that tells you how to disable cookies.

The ESOLogs FAQ
https://www.esologs.com/help/start

https://cookies.insites.com/disable-cookies/
This shows you how to disable cookies on a browser-by-browser and Operating System basis - and is what you linked to in your OP yet didn't bother to read, apparently.

Furthermore, recording combat logs is entirely voluntary, and is not done automatically by the game. It is something that a user has to trigger on their own, per ESOLogs' FAQ.

Idinuse wrote: »

In fact it’s not cookies only. It’s about gathering data in general and or tracking an online user, not only on web sites, but any online service.

Although having your actions recorded and stored on your or someone else’s hard drive with or without consent might be considered a cookie.

This is entirely or partially incorrect and very messy.

https://eugdpr.org/
It's probably worth mentioning, everyone in this thread irrespective of what they think they know can at any time use a search engine such as Google, Bing, Yahoo, etc. to look up the terms of this legislation.

I had never heard of ESOLogs prior to seeing this messy post, but after not even 20 seconds of combing through their website, I found their FAQ, I searched my name (both @Kittenhood and Kittenhood) and found no record of myself.

I haven't used this third-party service (keyword: third party) but I have done enough trials (both veteran and non-veteran) to have come across multiple people using this service to measure their and their teams' output.

And on a final note, your non-essential information in regards to gameplay such as combat statistics in a videogame may not implicitly be covered or even protected by the GDPR, which focuses on data collection on platforms such as Facebook and Google-affiliated services such as GMail (used for personal habits and advertising purposes, which is scary) and even more importantly things such as medical records.

In my opinion this thread may need to be locked before it turns into a flame war - it also serves no purpose other than the spread of misinformation by the OP (Original Poster).

You don't need a law degree - you just need a smartphone.

Kittenhood
Yes, you won't find yourself on ESOLogs yet - because right now it's only working on the PTS, and only from yesterday. So I'm sure you didn't raid together with anyone on the live servers who are using it, since nobody can do that now

In addition, during the PTS, all logs are private.

I know

It's still hilarious that somebody is defending the current default setting without even know that it doesn't work on live servers.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2019

Ogou wrote: »

In that case you would know that your leader would be putting it up publicly. This is no more of a privacy issue than someone uploading the video of your run to youtube or streaming it on twitch. You could always cherry pick a scenario where for some reason the given tools of anonymity would fail.
Even your example doesn't work because John wouldn't be able to participate in the raid if he opted out of the logs anyways.

Giving the logs an opt out option makes them as useful as the current option we have (CMX) so why even do it at this point?

1/ Albeit esologs requires uploading a file, it's not nearly half as tedious as uploading a Youtube video or setting up a twitch stream.
2/ As many pro-esologs already mentioned, the tool provides many useful features (such as "replay") that CMX doesn't offer
3/ My example was merely meant to show that there's a privacy issue with esologs anyway, and that this privacy issue isn't always related to DPS, as many elitists seem to believe. And yes, I use "elitist" here in the bad sense of the word, knowing it's not related to actual ingame performance, simply because of the various contributors here who like to link "privacy concerns" to "bad players".

Jeremy · April 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

From my understanding of the GDPR: this argument boils down to the question whether or not a person's account name is considered personal information.

There is that aspect to it.

This particular thread is mostly about whether or not the ESO Logs website has GDPR compliant cookies/consent to use cookies.

But since none of us are actually GDPR experts AFAIK, we're mostly forum lawyering

I would doubt it if I understand your premise correctly. I would assume most people consider cookies to be nothing more than temporary saved files of the user's preferences. That's quite a bit different than posting someone's account name and in-game activities on a public site. So I doubt the typical we use cookies consent would meet the criteria of explicit and informed consent. Not to mention the GDPR requires the highest possible privacy settings by default.

Here in the States it seems trivial considering our personal information is already compiled and stored in databases and our online activities tracked every second of every day. So online privacy went out the door here a long time ago.

VaranisArano · April 2019

Gilvoth wrote: »

just like that other guy said, he will look up peoples name in the group online list, and if he does not like the numbers u have on a that list, he boot you immediate.

Could this possibly happen? Yeah, someone could do that.

Is it likely?
I dunno about you, but I don't have time to do that before we get started on a dungeon.
And while there might be time while the trials group is forming up, if I had standards, I wouldn't be PUGing it.

A more likely situation is that you apply to join a progression guild, they check your stats, don't like what they see, and don't invite you. Thing is, that's nothing new. Those guilds would ask for a DPS test or some other test anyways using Combat Metrics, and you can either agree or leave.

Now, I would not enjoy it if someone made an hypothetical addon that pulled from those stats and let people look at a character history from in game, which makes it much easier to look at data and decide to kick on the fly, but that's getting too hypothetical for my tastes.

But hey, good news! None of that above would ever impact you if you are set to Anonymous (or better yet, if Anonymous becomes the default).

Mudcrabber · April 2019

None of the logs will show up in Google. That used to be good enough for most.

https://www.esologs.com/robots.txt

User-agent: *
Disallow: /zone/
Disallow: /guild/
Disallow: /character/
Disallow: /reports/
Disallow: /server/

Does the GDPR have any safeharbor exceptions, where responsibility falls on the uploader instead of the service host? Sites like YouTube or Reddit could not function if they were personally responsible whenever someone's username was mentioned in a bad light.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2019

Mudcrabber wrote: »
None of the logs will show up in Google. That used to be good enough for most.

https://www.esologs.com/robots.txt
User-agent: *
Disallow: /zone/
Disallow: /guild/
Disallow: /character/
Disallow: /reports/
Disallow: /server/
Does the GDPR have any safeharbor exceptions, where responsibility falls on the uploader instead of the service host? Sites like YouTube or Reddit could not function if they were personally responsible whenever someone's username was mentioned in a bad light.

I'm sorry but the "robot" thing doesn't make sense to most of use (unless I'm much dumber than most). Care to explain / elaborate a bit ?

YouTube or Reddit pretend they can't be held responsible for anything for technical reasons, when they actually could. They just love their current audience numbers.

Ydrisselle · April 2019

Mudcrabber wrote: »
None of the logs will show up in Google. That used to be good enough for most.

https://www.esologs.com/robots.txt
User-agent: *
Disallow: /zone/
Disallow: /guild/
Disallow: /character/
Disallow: /reports/
Disallow: /server/
Does the GDPR have any safeharbor exceptions, where responsibility falls on the uploader instead of the service host? Sites like YouTube or Reddit could not function if they were personally responsible whenever someone's username was mentioned in a bad light.

It's still available on ESOLogs, and it seems that the recording will catch everyone near you, even if they are not in your group. I've linked a test on the previous page, you should look at it...

Jeremy · April 2019

Mudcrabber wrote: »
None of the logs will show up in Google. That used to be good enough for most.

https://www.esologs.com/robots.txt
User-agent: *
Disallow: /zone/
Disallow: /guild/
Disallow: /character/
Disallow: /reports/
Disallow: /server/
Does the GDPR have any safeharbor exceptions, where responsibility falls on the uploader instead of the service host? Sites like YouTube or Reddit could not function if they were personally responsible whenever someone's username was mentioned in a bad light.

It requires that collectors of personal data use the highest-possible privacy settings by default. That's why I say this debate boils down to whether or not a person's account name is considered personal data. Because obviously making personal data available to 3rd party sites without that person's - and I quote: "unambiguous and individualized affirmation of consent from the data subject" "is not the highest-possible privacy settings.

Ydrisselle · April 2019

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
Mudcrabber wrote: »
None of the logs will show up in Google. That used to be good enough for most.

https://www.esologs.com/robots.txt
User-agent: *
Disallow: /zone/
Disallow: /guild/
Disallow: /character/
Disallow: /reports/
Disallow: /server/
Does the GDPR have any safeharbor exceptions, where responsibility falls on the uploader instead of the service host? Sites like YouTube or Reddit could not function if they were personally responsible whenever someone's username was mentioned in a bad light.
I'm sorry but the "robot" thing doesn't make sense to most of use (unless I'm much dumber than most). Care to explain / elaborate a bit ?

YouTube or Reddit pretend they can't be held responsible for anything for technical reasons, when they actually could. They just love their current audience numbers.

He means search robots, like Google's.