I don't know how to deal with spear spamming Templars

Knootewoot

Help me please lol. I can hold block and blockcast, but eventually I die.

Mostly it's biting jabs.

How to counter it?

Plasma_Elf

Instead of just eating the templar’s damage, try forcing them on defense.

Templar’s are not very good at being offensive and defensive at the same time.

Whenever you feel like they are pressuring you, try stunning them and put some damage on them.

Blinkin8r

Knootewoot wrote: »

Help me please lol. I can hold block and blockcast, but eventually I die.

Mostly it's biting jabs.

How to counter it?

I saw in another comment that you're a nightblade. A couple things I use:
1: Mass Hysteria
2: Shuffle (reduces Jab damage and you won't get snared by the last hit either) Shuffle is best counter to jabs imo.
3: Don't try and get away. My first instinct when hit with jabs was always to dodge roll backward. They just take a step forward and keep jabbing. Walk through them. They have to turn around so it's crazy annoying for them. Walk through them and fear if you wanna burst them it's perfect.

Waffennacht

Blinkin8r wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Help me please lol. I can hold block and blockcast, but eventually I die.

Mostly it's biting jabs.

How to counter it?

I saw in another comment that you're a nightblade. A couple things I use:
1: Mass Hysteria
2: Shuffle (reduces Jab damage and you won't get snared by the last hit either) Shuffle is best counter to jabs imo.
3: Don't try and get away. My first instinct when hit with jabs was always to dodge roll backward. They just take a step forward and keep jabbing. Walk through them. They have to turn around so it's crazy annoying for them. Walk through them and fear if you wanna burst them it's perfect.

This, walk-through is extremely effective on many abilities.

dazee

I dont know, never been killed by jabs. try bashing it?

Checkmath

dazee wrote: »

I dont know, never been killed by jabs. try bashing it?

Bad idea since jabs can not be interrupted. Maybe OP is trolling, then it would make sense.

Otherwise I suggest stepping through the enemy templar and keep up distance (shouldnt be a problem as nightblade). Templars arent that mobile. Do not try to block it, it very stamina consuming.

Knootewoot

Checkmath wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

I dont know, never been killed by jabs. try bashing it?

Bad idea since jabs can not be interrupted. Maybe OP is trolling, then it would make sense.

Otherwise I suggest stepping through the enemy templar and keep up distance (shouldnt be a problem as nightblade). Templars arent that mobile. Do not try to block it, it very stamina consuming.

I am not trolling. I was thinking of getting crushing shot for interupt but guess that wont work.

Yes, as a nightblade i can get distance if i use shade and/or fear. But if i am already do close and they spam it and they break free of fear very quick it's game over for me. Biting jabs itself does not that much damage per tick, but some spam it so fast my health drops like crazy and i die.

Not here to troll, but to ask help on how to counter it.

Bit offtopic,
I don't know why i keep dying to quick. I have 2500 crit resistance, and around 27k spell and 20k physical protection and 26k health. Yesterday a sorc jumped around and i died in 2 second by some skills that didn't do that much damage overall. Maybe i need to reset my talent tree and apply points per section. It feels bugged.

Kadoin

Major evasion and block only the last hit? Major expedition or other movement speed? Don't get stunned and allow them to jab you to death? Stun or immobilize and move? More resist and better healing? Combinations?

LordTareq

Certain templars do incredible burst while they still have excellent defenses. I find good templars the most challenging opponents to fight, and I too have found myself unable to escape occasionally. Usually if I can't take them down with my opener burst from cloak (which is usually the case) I kite them with my ranged backbar and don't bother with melee. If I can't take them down ranged I disengage and find another target.
In my experience two things help, major evasion from double take etc. helps reduce the damage but if you just facetank the damage it will still not end well. Timing to block just the final hit as suggested above is imho not really doable with the lag and all the visual effects going on.
Imho the most useful tool is forward momentum/shuffle as the 70% (!) snare is the most lethal aspect of the spearspam: you can't get away.

Important to know is that biting jabs/puncturing sweep cannot be dodge rolled, meaning if your reflex is to dodge you will both eat the full damage AND end up with the 70% snare.

One sequence that can help you get away from the burst would be this: Stun break -> dodge roll through the templar -> forward momentum -> sprint -> cloak.

Vermethys

Nothing a Reverberating Bash to the face can't solve (Or really any available stun)

As others have said, stuns are the key to your problem. I usually stun them, apply all my DoTs, use Forward Momentum, and create a bit of distance -- that is unless they are squishy and can be killed soon after getting stunned. I almost never block Jabs too, really eats up your stamina quickly (which you'd need to either go offensive or escape).

Kupoking

Using Major evasion is a good idea. If you are a stam nb you need enough stamina regen to be able to distance yourself with roll dodge or sprint.

Best way to deal with them in my experience is a high burst combo out of cloak. Problem is, you will need a high damage build, which is a double-edged sword as you will be much easier to kill.

Make no mistake, I main a stam templar and I know the my match up against any types of nb is favorable to me. Any good templars will be a hard target.

Elsterchen

Take a few steps back.

... or to the side

If you are able to do that: roll-dodge.

Knootewoot

Kupoking wrote: »

Using Major evasion is a good idea. If you are a stam nb you need enough stamina regen to be able to distance yourself with roll dodge or sprint.

Best way to deal with them in my experience is a high burst combo out of cloak. Problem is, you will need a high damage build, which is a double-edged sword as you will be much easier to kill.

Make no mistake, I main a stam templar and I know the my match up against any types of nb is favorable to me. Any good templars will be a hard target.

I'm a magblade

Thanks for the replies all. I'll try some dualling maybe or just go test in Cyrodill (once i get past the queue)

Joy_Division

About the worse way to fight a templar is to stand still (and in their jabs).

Cripple is money against them and if you flame reach stun them, they have to spend time on the defense to heal up because the class struggles doing offense and defense at the same time.

fullheartcontainer

Elsterchen wrote: »

Take a few steps back.

... or to the side

If you are able to do that: roll-dodge.

Don't step back or to the side. Jabs is a cone with a snare on the final hit. Trying to move in those directions can cause some issues. As Checkmath stated before, the best thing you can do is to move through the templar's body and then roll or sprint away. Templars have bad mobility so once you make a gap they'll have a hard time closing it again

Sanguinor2

Also Keep in mind that you will likely be snared from Standing inside the templar ritual already if you havent been recently hit by Jabs, ironically the farthest knock back is on the templar spear iirc, just like mark was the most potent cloak counter.

My advice would be to kite with shade and cripple also fear/reach depending on which you use, place a shade, fear or reach, move away while casting cripple and Keep moving away from your shade, if the templar catches up port to shade and instantly place a new shade and start the pattern again while damaging from range, can also use cloak to get more distance but only if you are away a bit already, if you start cloaking infront of Jabs you will get revealed near instantly.

CatchMeTrolling

If you have any form of mobility you can be that annoying person that just simply moves out of the jabs. Like other people have said it’s practically no defense on the Templar’s end (Magplars can vary) so a stun into a burst opportunity can end a fight. A Templar on the defense really can’t do much Stam or mag.

Metemsycosis

Are you vamp op? Use mist plus teleport shade to deal with stamplars.

Mayrael

Mist form helps a lot but being vampire guts you pretty hard. As a magblade masochist I can tell you just one thing, keep the distance, use shade and fear whenever they get close to you and nuke them as hard as you can. Templars are pretty simple to read, they attack or defend - there is no middle ground.

Knootewoot

Thanks again. I am a Magblade, so no shuffle. Next patch I'll cast RAT.
I also don't have mass hysteria, because I have to much fun with fear traps. But if I can cast it fast enough it will have same effect.
Indeed I try to get out of range, but it seems it is longer then I expect. I'll try to go through them as suggested, cast a fear trap and conceal spam.

Blinkin8r

Wait, Jabs kills you? Well if there's anything I've learned recently...

ZOS, NERF JABS. TEMPLARS GETTING CARRIED BY JABS FOR YEARS THEY DESERVE A NERF IN THE NAME OF BALANCE ETC ETC ETC.

Oh how the turntables...

Knootewoot

Hehe 😎. You made me chuckle.

MannKurt

Just DIE

katorga

Knootewoot wrote: »

Thanks again. I am a Magblade, so no shuffle. Next patch I'll cast RAT.
I also don't have mass hysteria, because I have to much fun with fear traps. But if I can cast it fast enough it will have same effect.
Indeed I try to get out of range, but it seems it is longer then I expect. I'll try to go through them as suggested, cast a fear trap and conceal spam.

Dude you have major evasion as a class buff, 25% reduction in jabs damage. If you don't want to use it, it is all on you.

Second, jabs is easy to strafe around, side step, roll out of. Plenty of ways to get out of the cone. With the next patch and permanent snare/root immunity, it will be even easier.

Knootewoot

katorga wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Thanks again. I am a Magblade, so no shuffle. Next patch I'll cast RAT.
I also don't have mass hysteria, because I have to much fun with fear traps. But if I can cast it fast enough it will have same effect.
Indeed I try to get out of range, but it seems it is longer then I expect. I'll try to go through them as suggested, cast a fear trap and conceal spam.

Dude you have major evasion as a class buff, 25% reduction in jabs damage. If you don't want to use it, it is all on you.

Second, jabs is easy to strafe around, side step, roll out of. Plenty of ways to get out of the cone. With the next patch and permanent snare/root immunity, it will be even easier.

He, i was just asking for help not nerfs.. ease down.

Thanks for the tip though.... I was not aware major evasion helped for jabs.

Iskiab

Mass Hysteria. You mentioned you have fun with fear traps, but you aren’t going to get far in pvp without it. You’re giving up your best defense tool, if you get caught snared in jabs you’ll have problems if the final tick lands.

Spears is large enough so that you’ll get caught in it even with a dodge roll.

Circle straffing is effective too. Blockade spam is also effective against you, don’t run directly away from people. I blockade spam in PvP and it’s effective because NBs try to cloak in a predictable direction, I usually don’t need detect pots to find them.

Wing

I feel your pain, stam templar is hidden OP atm

they are the best bleeders now: rending, double damage health poison, jabs.
have good mobility because of stam (only going to get better with RaT after update)
are able to easily keep you in the fight with things like the HEAVY slow on jabs and silver leash (stun, slow, and pull)
and are also very tanky due to extended ritual and restoring focus

seriously, stam templars will kill you surprisingly quick while still being incredibly durable

Ragnarock41

Dodge through him/her and counter attack while he is turning.

Use major evasion and snare immunity.

Force him to be defensive by going offensive.

Keep your heals up while fighting. Heal over time abilities like vigor , dark cloak etc are best when used before taking damage, not after.

All things considered stamplars have insane pressure so forcing them to be defensive and draining their resources is your best bet. Oh, they are also very slow so kiting is a valid option.

CatchMeTrolling

Wing wrote: »

I feel your pain, stam templar is hidden OP atm

they are the best bleeders now: rending, double damage health poison, jabs.
have good mobility because of stam (only going to get better with RaT after update)
are able to easily keep you in the fight with things like the HEAVY slow on jabs and silver leash (stun, slow, and pull)
and are also very tanky due to extended ritual and restoring focus

seriously, stam templars will kill you surprisingly quick while still being incredibly durable

Stamplar has no mobility. Being stam doesn’t automatically mean you have mobility. Nor are they even close to tanky (that’s experience) defense is what they lack.

Stamplars really just shine against people who can’t deal with pressure and those who try to face tank jabs.

Wing

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

I feel your pain, stam templar is hidden OP atm

they are the best bleeders now: rending, double damage health poison, jabs.
have good mobility because of stam (only going to get better with RaT after update)
are able to easily keep you in the fight with things like the HEAVY slow on jabs and silver leash (stun, slow, and pull)
and are also very tanky due to extended ritual and restoring focus

seriously, stam templars will kill you surprisingly quick while still being incredibly durable

Stamplar has no mobility. Being stam doesn’t automatically mean you have mobility. Nor are they even close to tanky (that’s experience) defense is what they lack.

Stamplars really just shine against people who can’t deal with pressure and those who try to face tank jabs.

I tend to disagree

it may not have built in mobility but it has a great toolkit to insert mobility at no cost.

for instance classic forward momentum deals with lack of mobility, and then insert whatever form of major expedition you see fit. cleansing ritual is also amazing when kiting or running as thanks to sacred ground its a colossal aoe 30% slow that targets chasing, following, or fighting have to deal with, while it heals you, and removes negative effects. and because snares as a negative effect reduce % of targets current bonus no amount of move speed can keep up, meaning the attackers HAVE to spam further snare removal to give chase.

then restoring focus grants your major buffs and gives 240 stam recovery a second (equal to 480 stam recovery as recovery ticks every 2 seconds) meaning you don't have to build as much stam recovery in class. further resistances can be further slotted through protective jewelry, at least 1 heavy chest, perhaps your even a nord, etc.

and then unlike stam sorc or stam DK when running a 2H and dual wield you still have a great stam spammable with jabs, that has a COLLOSAL 70% snare, that really make it easy to keep people in place to apply rending, the snare is enough to make people dodge roll and snare removal FURTHER eating their resources just because of your main spammable.

stam templar does not have "classic" op symptoms, like extreme move speed, some amazing high damage ult, or some form of iconic skill like wings to draw people into it or make it op.
what it does have is an amazing spamable and a particular set of tools in a very particular order that if utilized and built around make it amazing to the point of staggering, as people are used to stam templar being a useless non factor in pvp.

Knootewoot

Well, i had some nice fights over the past days.

Melee magblade is hard against a templar. Especially when they stand in their house.

Switching to ranged was a good move. As a magblade i do not have vigor and dark cloak is getting nerfed. I used mutagen and path instead.

I did defeat a few templars, but a few stamplars were so fast with uber mobility i could not escape. Fear traps did work in some occasions though.

Thanks for the tips all. Maybe i should be doing more dualling to understand it all better. But before i do that i wait until the next update. Else i have to relearn a lot again since there are so many changes.