All magicka classes should be given access to snare removal + immunity

ccmedaddy

...because vampirism should not be a requirement on any class, especially after the recent changes to dmg calculation.

p00tx

Purge

ccmedaddy

p00tx wrote: »

Purge

You forgot the troll emoji

p00tx

ccmedaddy wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Purge

You forgot the troll emoji

I lack the adequate sense of humor to use it. I was being serious. I know it's not a fun or terribly efficient skill, but it works, and it offers debuff mitigation.

I do agree that we shouldn't be locked into vampirism and Mist Form. It makes all of our fighting reactive, rather than proactively applying something like FM like stam can, and forces a fight or flight fighting style, which kinda sucks.

frostz417

p00tx wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Purge

You forgot the troll emoji

I lack the adequate sense of humor to use it. I was being serious. I know it's not a fun or terribly efficient skill, but it works, and it offers debuff mitigation.

I do agree that we shouldn't be locked into vampirism and Mist Form. It makes all of our fighting reactive, rather than proactively applying something like FM like stam can, and forces a fight or flight fighting style, which kinda sucks.

Purge removes 2 effects. No guarantee it’ll remove a snare. It provides no immunity.
It doesn’t to crap against snares for the price it costs. People can still apply snares especially since they’re so easily accessible. Therefore purge is a waste of a skill to use.

technohic

Youd be amazed even with ER 5 effects how often root/snares are not removed, and if they are, are applied right back.

Taleof2Cities

frostz417 wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Purge

You forgot the troll emoji

I lack the adequate sense of humor to use it. I was being serious. I know it's not a fun or terribly efficient skill, but it works, and it offers debuff mitigation.

I do agree that we shouldn't be locked into vampirism and Mist Form. It makes all of our fighting reactive, rather than proactively applying something like FM like stam can, and forces a fight or flight fighting style, which kinda sucks.

Purge removes 2 effects. No guarantee it’ll remove a snare. It provides no immunity.
It doesn’t to crap against snares for the price it costs. People can still apply snares especially since they’re so easily accessible. Therefore purge is a waste of a skill to use.

This is the typical response from a player who wants to ignore snare removal from any part of their build theorycrafting ... which is something you have to think about when choosing a class / race that lacks those features.

Even when efficient purge comes with a low skill cost ...

Donny_Vito

Yes, please. Lets make every class equal.

#EqualityForAll

ccmedaddy

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Yes, please. Lets make every class equal.

#EqualityForAll

Yeah because snare removal/immunity is the only the only way you can tell different classes apart. 🙄 Also, you do realize stamina toons get their snare removal from weapon abilities, not class abilities, right?

Donny_Vito

Also, you do realize stamina toons get their snare removal from weapon abilities, not class abilities, right?

Nope, for some reason I thought Wings could give snare removal from the DK class. Guess I was wrong.

Gilvoth

only magicka deserves it?
we stamina should as well and so should everyone, not just magicka.

ccmedaddy

Gilvoth wrote: »

only magicka deserves it?
we stamina should as well and so should everyone, not just magicka.

I mean... stam already has access to forward momentum and shuffle but if ZOS added access to snare removal/immunity via class skills or something like a psijic skill then stamina toons will be able to use it just as well. Case in point: StamDKs and wings.

Gilvoth

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

only magicka deserves it?
we stamina should as well and so should everyone, not just magicka.

I mean... stam already has access to forward momentum and shuffle but if ZOS added access to snare removal/immunity via class skills or something like a psijic skill then stamina toons will be able to use it just as well. Case in point: StamDKs and wings.

sounds fair

frostz417

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Purge

You forgot the troll emoji

I lack the adequate sense of humor to use it. I was being serious. I know it's not a fun or terribly efficient skill, but it works, and it offers debuff mitigation.

I do agree that we shouldn't be locked into vampirism and Mist Form. It makes all of our fighting reactive, rather than proactively applying something like FM like stam can, and forces a fight or flight fighting style, which kinda sucks.

Purge removes 2 effects. No guarantee it’ll remove a snare. It provides no immunity.
It doesn’t to crap against snares for the price it costs. People can still apply snares especially since they’re so easily accessible. Therefore purge is a waste of a skill to use.

This is the typical response from a player who wants to ignore snare removal from any part of their build theorycrafting ... which is something you have to think about when choosing a class / race that lacks those features.

Even when efficient purge comes with a low skill cost ...

Purge isn’t a snare removal nor does it provide immunity.
Your response is that of a zergling who doesn’t even know how most abilities work since you likely just spam 1 button. If you can give a mag snare immunity aside from
Gimping myself to running mist form then I’ll take your empty arguments seriously

Chilly-McFreeze

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

only magicka deserves it?
we stamina should as well and so should everyone, not just magicka.

I mean... stam already has access to forward momentum and shuffle but if ZOS added access to snare removal/immunity via class skills or something like a psijic skill then stamina toons will be able to use it just as well. Case in point: StamDKs and wings.

Or just put it on class skills that are somewhat equally useful and usable by stam and mag without forcing us into paygated skill lines, specific weapons or armor types. Thanks.

ccmedaddy

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

only magicka deserves it?
we stamina should as well and so should everyone, not just magicka.

I mean... stam already has access to forward momentum and shuffle but if ZOS added access to snare removal/immunity via class skills or something like a psijic skill then stamina toons will be able to use it just as well. Case in point: StamDKs and wings.

Or just put it on class skills that are somewhat equally useful and usable by stam and mag without forcing us into paygated skill lines, specific weapons or armor types. Thanks.

Fair point. I suggested psijic skill line under the assumption that it'll be part of the base game (like how some Morrowind features became base game) but I guess nothing's set in stone yet.

Iskiab

No way. Too much of an advantage for ranged classes.

If melee want one use 2 hander, if ranged want one be a templar or melee.

If magicka gets one bow will be next, then why play melee at all? Technically as a ranged magicka or stamina you can back bar 2 hander for momentum.

I’m magicka ranged btw, I’m not trying to keep an advantage or anything, but this would be overpowered.

Minno

#HardNerfHeroicSlash

ccmedaddy

Iskiab wrote: »

if ranged want one be a templar or melee.

Templars don't have access to snare immunity. Why do you think most of them are vampires?

Iskiab wrote: »

If magicka gets one bow will be next.

They already have it. It's called shuffle.

Iskiab

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

if ranged want one be a templar or melee.

Templars don't have access to snare immunity. Why do you think most of them are vampires?

Iskiab wrote: »

If magicka gets one bow will be next.

They already have it. It's called shuffle.

I see your point, but still think you’re going to see a bunch of magsorcs with speed transmutations on their jewellery who’d be able to kite melee indefinitely. It’d get abused like crazy.

You already see speedy sorcs every once in a while, give them snare immunity and they’d be uncatchable.

ccmedaddy

Iskiab wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

if ranged want one be a templar or melee.

Templars don't have access to snare immunity. Why do you think most of them are vampires?

Iskiab wrote: »

If magicka gets one bow will be next.

They already have it. It's called shuffle.

I see your point, but still think you’re going to see a bunch of magsorcs with speed transmutations on their jewellery who’d be able to kite melee indefinitely. It’d get abused like crazy.

You already see speedy sorcs every once in a while, give them snare immunity and they’d be uncatchable.

"Ok I acknowledge that my previous arguments were garbage so I'm going to make up an imaginary ~speed sorc with 3X swift jewelry~ meta to stand by my ill conceived position"

K bud

FleetwoodSmack

I'm on the fence about it.

I mean there's some good countering points against the idea (that it's what snares and immobilization skills are for), but at the present state of the game the usage of these abilities are just... Stupidly excessive. 20 people chasing down one person who's purging the crap out of themselves just to get through a door. That's if they don't get stunlocked because CC immunity is still borked and you can't cast Purge while in that scenario.

Then you have vampirism. While it makes for good theorycrafting, it's mostly used as a crutch.

As for speed sorcs, there's a few sorcs out there that can still streak for days without having to worry about the cost increase (I'm not sure if it's raw stats and regen or if they're popping a potion). So to me they're already pretty much uncatchable. The moment they streak twice, I just go back to where I was going and wait for them to come back.


I do think that this warrants a larger discussion though. I'm not saying no even though I'm not saying yes. It's just where do we stick it?

ccmedaddy

@FleetwoodSmack Fair point. I think there's a case to be made that magNBs and magsorcs should not get snare removal/immunity because they already have mobility skills like streak, shade, etc but I really don't think this will be game breaking. Plus, I didn't want this thread to become yet another 'class v. class v. class' thread where it devolves into an argument over which class has it worse than the others and blah blah.

In any case, this is probably not gonna happen anytime soon especially since ZOS has hinted at nerfing snares instead, which I'm cool with. I'm just trying to plant a seed of this idea in the devs' heads so they may possibly consider this several patches from now.

Koolio

p00tx wrote: »

Purge

I use that on my MNB for quite some time before the mark target change. Current record to get a snare off me is 12 casts.

FleetwoodSmack

ccmedaddy wrote: »

@FleetwoodSmack Fair point. I think there's a case to be made that magNBs and magsorcs should not get snare removal/immunity because they already have mobility skills like streak, shade, etc but I didn't want this thread to become yet another 'class v. class v. class' thread where it devolves into an argument over which class has it worse than the others and blah blah.

In any case, this is probably not gonna happen anytime soon especially since ZOS has hinted at nerfing snares instead, which I'm cool with. I'm just trying to plant a seed of this idea in the devs' heads so they may possibly consider this several patches from now.

Indeed. Honestly, for me it's not about what class has it the worst--it's that all classes have the capability of just spaaaamming those snares. I'm often in those scenarios where if there's 20 people chasing after me that I'm probably going to die while trying to make it back to the door. While I have an arsenal of potions, they really don't always do what they're supposed to. So sometimes I'll find myself chugging an immovable, then find myself still stunlocked before the CC Immunity even expires.

I really hope the nerf to snares helps with that some, but there still needs to be something that makes it where it makes several choices viable rather than "Oh, guess I'll be a vampire." Or Purge needs to have a smarter structure in how it works, because as it stands I'm swapping between that or Radiant Magelight. And both are pretty useless to me right now.

Taleof2Cities

frostz417 wrote: »

Purge isn’t a snare removal nor does it provide immunity.

frostz417 wrote: »

Purge removes 2 effects. No guarantee it’ll remove a snare. It provides no immunity.

Ah, well if you’re the expert non-zergling, which of the following statements above is accurate??

Iskiab

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

if ranged want one be a templar or melee.

Templars don't have access to snare immunity. Why do you think most of them are vampires?

Iskiab wrote: »

If magicka gets one bow will be next.

They already have it. It's called shuffle.

I see your point, but still think you’re going to see a bunch of magsorcs with speed transmutations on their jewellery who’d be able to kite melee indefinitely. It’d get abused like crazy.

You already see speedy sorcs every once in a while, give them snare immunity and they’d be uncatchable.

"Ok I acknowledge that my previous arguments were garbage so I'm going to make up an imaginary ~speed sorc with 3X swift jewelry~ meta to stand by my ill conceived position"

K bud

Well you’re not going to see them constantly, but I see them a fair bit. I don’t know what to say, if you can’t see why snare immunity would be OP on an already highly mobile class what’s there to discuss?

You’re basicly asking for some classes to be OP.

ccmedaddy

Iskiab wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

if ranged want one be a templar or melee.

Templars don't have access to snare immunity. Why do you think most of them are vampires?

Iskiab wrote: »

If magicka gets one bow will be next.

They already have it. It's called shuffle.

I see your point, but still think you’re going to see a bunch of magsorcs with speed transmutations on their jewellery who’d be able to kite melee indefinitely. It’d get abused like crazy.

You already see speedy sorcs every once in a while, give them snare immunity and they’d be uncatchable.

"Ok I acknowledge that my previous arguments were garbage so I'm going to make up an imaginary ~speed sorc with 3X swift jewelry~ meta to stand by my ill conceived position"

K bud

Well you’re not going to see them constantly, but I see them a fair bit. I don’t know what to say, if you can’t see why snare immunity would be OP on an already highly mobile class what’s there to discuss?

You’re basicly asking for some classes to be OP.

Hmm... A highly mobile class with access to streak and snare immunity. Sounds familiar...

Oh wait, stamsorcs already exist and they're not even remotely OP. Also, gap closers are a thing.

Chilly-McFreeze

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Purge isn’t a snare removal nor does it provide immunity.

frostz417 wrote: »

Purge removes 2 effects. No guarantee it’ll remove a snare. It provides no immunity.

Ah, well if you’re the expert non-zergling, which of the following statements above is accurate??

Backfired. He isn’t even contradicting himself. Purge can remove snares and reduce them afterwards , yes, but the chances are slim. And I’m not going to spam a 5k skill to maybe remove snares when I need to get away.

Iskiab

You know I’ve been thinking. Instead of a guild skill line for for a snare/root immunity they should make it class specific. I still think it’d be OP on a magsorc but Templars and Melee Magblades could really use it.

Any spec that is melee needs a snare removal, magdk’s have one I believe and it will remove the requirement (or wanting it bad at least) for Templars to be vampire for mist form. S&B is sorta required as a templar so having access to forward momentum is problematic.

Templars do need some mobility love.

cpuScientist

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Purge isn’t a snare removal nor does it provide immunity.

frostz417 wrote: »

Purge removes 2 effects. No guarantee it’ll remove a snare. It provides no immunity.

Ah, well if you’re the expert non-zergling, which of the following statements above is accurate??

Both are correct. Purge isn't a snare removal skill it's a status effect removal skill and while snares fall under that category it's not the skills sole purpose or even main purpose and it is limited when used with that in mind. And then purge does not grant an immunity to snares afterwards.

Wings Momentum and Shuffle remove all snares no matter the amount and then grants immunity from them being re-aplied.

To those who know how the skills above operates his statements are clear. However, for those who have some misconception or misunderstanding of the skills and their functions, I can definitely see how it might sound somewhat contradictory and confusing.