So I just watched [snip] 1vZ (zerg) video...

Lord-Otto

My GOD, was it BORING!
Now, hold your gun. Wasn't [snip] fault. He's an awesome player, probably one of the best three magsorcs out there. And he certainly jumps into ridiculous battles - and wins!
No, it was ESO's combat. Was just painful watching him plink plink at zerglings, praying they won't get a heal. No spectacular CCburstOMFG1337BBQ combo, no cool double kill with an AoE or suchlike. Turned off after four minutes.
When did ESO become such a snore fest that even watching a demi-god like [snip] actually bores me? Can we please get some fun back in the game? Or is it just me?
=/

[Edit for naming.]

Kadoin

Blame the meta...Most people literally do the exact same thing in Cyrodiil and BGs. When that's the case its easy to predict exactly how people will play, and it does get boring...

Lord-Otto

Kadoin wrote: »

Blame the meta...Most people literally do the exact same thing in Cyrodiil and BGs. When that's the case its easy to predict exactly how people will play, and it does get boring...

Maybe.

Akinos

i don't watch most mag sorc videos either, or stamblade videos for that matter. It is boring to watch good players smash pugs with such OP low effort/skill classes/builds. Show a magplar, magdk, magblade or even a stamplar winning a 1v12 and people will be truly impressed. Until then, meh.

Luckylancer

Definition boring: cant killing 1vsX

Why someone have to be able to kill solo vs zerg to have fun? Why this is a reason to complain?

If you want your old 1vX, go find a partner, do team play. You are 2 times more stronger and can get kills that way.

brandonv516

Akinos wrote: »

i don't watch most mag sorc videos either, or stamblade videos for that matter. It is boring to watch good players smash pugs with such OP low effort/skill classes/builds. Show a magplar, magdk, magblade or even a stamplar winning a 1v12 and people will be truly impressed. Until then, meh.

See it all the time

3...2...1...boom.

Wing

its kinda funny that the class's that CAN 1vX okay, do so very boring right?

I mean point to the obvious ones

Stamina NB? well that's a video full of ganking from stealth, re cloaking, and repeating the process

Magicka Sorc? hoping from a mile away spaming the same couple skills and casting bubble / streaking away if it gets a little scary

Stamina Warden? DB, Shalks, spin to win, kite till your set to go again.



though yeah no inclusion of Magblade? like the only thing they have left is bombing breach repairs, still funny to watch, I still either block / meditate on flags

Baphomet

For me, this goes in game as well - I don't even play my mag sorc, stam warden or stam nb because easy-mode is boring.

It's the same rotations you do over and over and over again - I like to play the underdogs because I like the challenge.

That way, when you win, you know that you've deserved it.

Akinos

brandonv516 wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

i don't watch most mag sorc videos either, or stamblade videos for that matter. It is boring to watch good players smash pugs with such OP low effort/skill classes/builds. Show a magplar, magdk, magblade or even a stamplar winning a 1v12 and people will be truly impressed. Until then, meh.

See it all the time

3...2...1...boom.

lol, xD. I should of specified that i didn't mean bombblades >_>

React

1vX's, especially longer fights like this, aren't boring because of the sheer length of the clip. It's due to the meta and how all these players that "Xv1" are playing. The healers with at least one thumb and a mitigation set on are completely unkillable 1v1 with 810cp, and even more so Xv1. They simultaneously can toss out 10k+ heals and synergies, proc sets like earthgore, and use defensive ults on cooldown with no consequence to their role. The tanks are running 40-60k health, guard, and literally do nothing but guard the healers or squishy DPS and rez spam as soon as someone goes down. The "Damage builds" are all wearing 1-3 protective and bloodspawn, and most don't even run double damage sets (many choose to pair their 1-3 protective and bloodspawn w/fortified, steadfast, wizards, swift, trans, reactive, etc). As a solo 1vX player fighting these sorts of groups, not only do you have almost no hope of fully wiping the group unless they are as thirsty/uncoordinated as the one that chased malcom, but actually killing anyone in these groups is a huge task which results in you spending a lot more time playing defensively than offensively. 1vXing a year or two ago was a lot more entertaining because you actually had the tools to deal with these players, and with a lower CP most of the healers and tanks could still be killed one way or another.

The survive to win meta is completely killing solo and small scale (5 or smaller) play. Most of the players who used to enjoy solo or 4 man PvP are now running in 6-10 man groups with their own healers and tanks, perpetuating the survive meta even further. Honestly there are so many players out here now who one year ago wouldn't have even been able to 3v1 you, who can now just equip 30k health, heavy armor, and use defensive ults on cooldown to beat you 2/3v1 every time.

If ZOS would nerf these sorts of playstyles and buff players that actually want to kill people, we might see a shift in the meta that allows for 1vXing and small scale to become more enjoyable again. First off, without a massive rework, 810 CP is far too much. Especially when you consider that the tanks and healers can put their blue points entirely into blessed, elfborn, and staff attacks (resto/lightning heavy attacks) without sacrificing anything at all. On the other side of the coin, a damage build doesn't have an option to sacrifice red or green points for more damage, whatsoever (unless you count befoul, which is a very niche node that also requires a specific debuff to be run). Thus when you end up with a fully specc'd healer vs even the top end damage builds, the healer can survive indefinitely every time (often with little effort as well, while the damage build needs to do a flawless rotation). Same exact thing goes for tanks.

Second, defensive ults and defensive buff/proc sets (earthgore, bogdan, trans, reactive, gossamer, chokethorn, meridias) are just out of control. The ults cost too little and can be used on cooldown with no consequence to a healer or tank's role. The sets just provide such ridiculous amounts of mitigation and healing that they can independently overpower everything a damage build does while being Xv1'd. The cost needs to be increased heavily on defensive ults, so that they can still be saved up for and used as an "Oh s***" button, but so they cannot be used more frequently than a player fighting 4 others by his/her self can build a dawnbreaker. The sets wouldn't be as much of an issue in No-cp, as sacrificing any regen/stats in no cp is actually a sacrifice when you don't have 810 cp to carry every aspect of your build. Unfortunately in CP there is no trade off to running defensive sets on a healer or tank, so to balance them for that there would need to be a rework to either the sets or CP.

Finally, we need a Resurrection cooldown. I'm extremely nervous for the necro ult that is being released, because Resurrection in tandem with tank builds in CP is already such a huge issue. Imagine if you're fighting a 6-10 man group, working as hard as possible to take the healer down. The healer finally goes down after you've expended tons of resources and time to do so, and a necromancer just ults the healer right back up from the dead. No counterplay. If a player dies, there either needs to be a cooldown from the moment they die until they can be resurrected again (30 seconds - 1 minute), or a player that has just been resurrected needs to be set on a 2-3 minute cooldown where they cannot be resurrected again.


If we see some changes to the survive to win meta, MAYBE 1vX and small scale will be fun again. Right now it's pretty much banging your head against the wall over and over again, getting zerged by groups you can't possibly outmaneuver, praying that if you spend enough time in cyro you'll stumble across a group of extremely weak players without dedicated tanks and healers.

technohic

This thread is lacking something without the vid. I mean, is it really naming and shaming when we are just talking about player created content? its not like people are saying the guy/gall is bad; just that the playstyle is not someone elses thing

psychotic13

Tbf in a 1vX you spend most of the time on the defensive or repositioning, you dont get a huge window to kill.

Lord-Otto

technohic wrote: »

This thread is lacking something without the vid. I mean, is it really naming and shaming when we are just talking about player created content? its not like people are saying the guy/gall is bad; just that the playstyle is not someone elses thing

Mhm, I guess because I found the video boring. It's a bit unspectacular, for sure. But rules are rules and I didn't get a warning or something, so no complaints from me.

If you're interested, you can find the video on YouTube. The guy I described is a magsorc demigod, 1vX'es a lot. I can think of two people who fit that description, and it's not a bird. (^_-)

Lord-Otto

psychotic13 wrote: »

Tbf in a 1vX you spend most of the time on the defensive or repositioning, you dont get a huge window to kill.

Yeah. Kind of. But then I remember old videos, from players that already left, and there's a lot more action there.

technohic

Lord-Otto wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

This thread is lacking something without the vid. I mean, is it really naming and shaming when we are just talking about player created content? its not like people are saying the guy/gall is bad; just that the playstyle is not someone elses thing

Mhm, I guess because I found the video boring. It's a bit unspectacular, for sure. But rules are rules and I didn't get a warning or something, so no complaints from me.

If you're interested, you can find the video on YouTube. The guy I described is a magsorc demigod, 1vX'es a lot. I can think of two people who fit that description, and it's not a bird. (^_-)

Hmm I can only think of a properly postured avian

Is there a date the video was uploaded?

Flame_of_Hades

You know what would fix all this? dynamic ult gen. Nerf battle roar, and give up dynamic ult gen back!

Lord-Otto

technohic wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

This thread is lacking something without the vid. I mean, is it really naming and shaming when we are just talking about player created content? its not like people are saying the guy/gall is bad; just that the playstyle is not someone elses thing

Mhm, I guess because I found the video boring. It's a bit unspectacular, for sure. But rules are rules and I didn't get a warning or something, so no complaints from me.

If you're interested, you can find the video on YouTube. The guy I described is a magsorc demigod, 1vX'es a lot. I can think of two people who fit that description, and it's not a bird. (^_-)

Hmm I can only think of a properly postured avian

Is there a date the video was uploaded?

April fourth. He fights twelve monkeys... I mean, DC, and wins.
>;P

technohic

Think I found it. And here I thought sorcs were dead. Nerfed into oblvion with a shield "nerf"

Juhasow

Well there were many things spread accros the years of game existance that lowered the effectiveness of solo players to the point 1vX is no longer that exciting to watch.

The most important reasons would be :
1. Faster "l2p" procces. 3-4 years ago average players were much weaker then they're right now. There wasnt that much of a content crators that offered decent way of learning how to play so average players were often trying to figure out things on their own which was making them easy targets. Today we have way bigged amount of knowledge accesible so players learn faster from there.
2. Improved itemization and gearing up. 3-4 years ago getting BiS gear was a chore. Getting perfect set in perfect trait was too much for many people so they were deciding to use some weaker replacements. With one tamriel and later added transmutation , jewelery crafting etc lot have changed in that matter so now ppl can be effective way faster and easier.
3. Increased effectiveness of sets and addition of many easy to use yet very effective sets. When game was released and soon after all meta setups were floating around building into sustain and decent max stats. Now we have lot of sets that can partially do the job for the player like master dual wield , sload , earthgore etc. Average potato can add more offense or defense to Xv1 with 1 button click now then he was able few years ago with all of his arsenal.
4. Battlegrounds. Addition of battlegrounds lowered the amount of fresh meat that You can find in Cyrodill these days. Previously those players would join Cyrodill and try their strenght there now they dont have to. Previously those weaklings would have to participate in Cyrodill to get AP for unlocking vigor or caltrops now they just can do it in few BGs session. Just make new character and join BGs while still being in low MMR and You'll know what I am talking about. Many teams there is easily soloable.
5. Zerging. These days it's really hard to find random noobies running around in small groups. ZoS did a lot of changes and encouraged people to zerging and disencouraged them to do small scale. Population of CYrodill also dropped in numbers so that is also lowering the amount of random noobies venturing around in smaller groups.

Those are in my opinions main reasons why 1vX today is harder and less enjoyable to watch then it used to. There is few other smaller reasons like for example adding the poisons to the game but I dont want to make this post too long so I just named the most importantr reason I had on the top of my head.

psychotic13

Lord-Otto wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Tbf in a 1vX you spend most of the time on the defensive or repositioning, you dont get a huge window to kill.

Yeah. Kind of. But then I remember old videos, from players that already left, and there's a lot more action there.

Well yeah there was, but thats because everyone takes x10 longer to kill than back then, so in a 1vX you rarely see someone take people out in quick succession anymore (unless maybe stamNB) so clips are alot longed cause majority of the clip is running around rocks until you get a kill window, pvp needs a big overhaul imo.

Lord-Otto

psychotic13 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Tbf in a 1vX you spend most of the time on the defensive or repositioning, you dont get a huge window to kill.

Yeah. Kind of. But then I remember old videos, from players that already left, and there's a lot more action there.

Well yeah there was, but thats because everyone takes x10 longer to kill than back then, so in a 1vX you rarely see someone take people out in quick succession anymore (unless maybe stamNB) so clips are alot longed cause majority of the clip is running around rocks until you get a kill window, pvp needs a big overhaul imo.

Yup. Yupyup. I'd LOVE to see faster kill times. No proc BS, just faster-paced combat.