Riddle me this... necroman...

LegacyDM

Why in all things holy is zos introducing a skill that can resurrect up to 3 dead allies? I get the pve implications but anyone think this is going to work in pvp?

1. The servers already can’t handle the increased calculations the more people there are in a quadrant. What’s the thought process here? Allowing dead people to continue fighting and not removing them from the calculation equation seems counter intuitive to reducing lag,
2. The trolling potential will be ***. Can see it now, troll groups at resources will just stack necros and keep rezzing to the point that it’s just stupid.

What is zos thinking? Am I missing something?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

The ultimate is 150 points right now, you can't exactly spam it. I really believe people are overestimating the impact of it.

Ankael07

One can only keep their ultimate for too long in order to revive their allies instead of using it to prevent their deaths in the first place. Otherwise the enemy would just overwhelm you in time

I do believe some form of countermeasure needs to exist against Resurrection though. Maybe reduce the casting range or give cast time

Gilvoth

expecting alot of dead people?
if we killed them once, we can keep killing them for more AP. x100
the old rule used to be "never burn enemy camps"

Ajax_22

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

The ultimate is 150 points right now, you can't exactly spam it. I really believe people are overestimating the impact of it.

I can get that in less than 30 seconds as a healer, without building into ult gen. The Wardens I run with can Perma, and then use a Dawn Breaker before the Perma runs out in good fights. 150 ult is nothing if you know what you're doing.

Wing

you run 2 ults (because we have 2 bars!) necro's ground pound atro ult that beats you into the dirt sounds solid.

one ult for actualy play be whatever that may be

and one rez for when you need a rez.

150 ult is as stated, nothing. dead water is amazing in ball groups, bloodspawn has been a thing forever, many sources of major / minor heroism, passives give ult, etc.

it will be the same as the sorc ult gen builds for negate.

I think people underestimate the ability to just not be able to wipe ball groups, they wont need camps, they wont care if a keep or outpost is flagged, if they want to be there and kill you they will, and there is NOTHING you will be able to do about it (until you get a better ball group)

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

The ultimate is 150 points right now, you can't exactly spam it. I really believe people are overestimating the impact of it.

I can get that in less than 30 seconds as a healer, without building into ult gen. The Wardens I run with can Perma, and then use a Dawn Breaker before the Perma runs out in good fights. 150 ult is nothing if you know what you're doing.

Still, every 30 seconds is a long time. Definitely not into spammable territory.

juhislihis19

This WILL be a problem I reckon.

We will have the usual tower muppets running straight to the towers of the keep, and when they are finally dead, the one who usually runs to get the camp out, will be the Necro to res everyone and the running around will continue inside the keep.

If such skills should ever materialize, the cost should be a lot higher than 150. More like 250.

Tommy_The_Gun

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

The ultimate is 150 points right now, you can't exactly spam it.

You have not seen what ball groups are capable of right ? They have insane ulti gen. Imagine those groups running around keep's walls & tower fighting. They wont even need a camp ffs...
As for the small scale it will be also way too strong. Hell, imagine those situations when a bunch of players are lying dead in the breach during keep siege and all random necros are spamming (since there will be a lot of them) resurrection ulti. Also as far as I can tell, unlike now there is no confirmation button for the player that is resurrected. Right now you have to press "E" if some one wants to resurect you (E to confirm or R to decline), you need to accept that. With Necro whenever you want it or not - you will be resurected. The trolling potentiall is reaching insane levels. Basically other players will be making decisions for you here. I don't like it.

Stellarvorous

You got to treat it like guild wars 2 pvp focus the necro people literally learned to do it years ago and it still works pretty good.

Sure im not thrilled about the idea of tower tards getting rezzed by necromancers but I feel like everyone is suffering from that knee jerk reaction of paranoia when it comes to necro …

Aye there are probably a few aspects of it like the purge that come off as OP but a triple man rez for 150 ult every 30 secs at minimal? it is strong sure but if rez bots become that much of an issue just find the tard doing it and put his ass in the dirt.

Now if we get a ball grp of say 12 people and 6 of them are necros with that rez ult slotted it might get cringe worthy though I don't think were at that point but then only potatoes still entertain ball grps *Bait Intended*

Luckylancer

Imagine you blow up 20 man group. 1 necro will res, 1 ressed necro will res then 2 necros res etc. Your ult is not reduced to 0. This chain ressurections are cheesy.

Kadoin

LegacyDM wrote: »

Why in all things holy is zos introducing a skill that can resurrect up to 3 dead allies? I get the pve implications but anyone think this is going to work in pvp?

1. The servers already can’t handle the increased calculations the more people there are in a quadrant. What’s the thought process here? Allowing dead people to continue fighting and not removing them from the calculation equation seems counter intuitive to reducing lag,
2. The trolling potential will be ***. Can see it now, troll groups at resources will just stack necros and keep rezzing to the point that it’s just stupid.

What is zos thinking? Am I missing something?

Time to use the lines I see on the forums that usually appear at a time like this before anyone else does:

Stop trying to get strategic group play nerfed!

Just wait until it hits live before saying its OP

X isn't even out yet and you want to nerf it? Wow.

RedTalon

I can only see that really being helpful during the siege weapon stage or in bgs, and its not cheap enough even with ult reducers to be spammed all the time, easier just to have a templar or two going around rising people

wheem_ESO

I've actually seen the rezz ult cost shown as 200, not 150. I sort of expect some changes to it before going live, but we'll just have to see how things work out on the PTS first (assuming there are actually enough people there to do some PvP). The only problem with increasing the cost is that the Animate Blastbones morph would probably be rendered worthless. As it stands right now, it looks like that one could be used in an offensive capacity even if there aren't any rezzes needed, but not if the cost is super high.

Stellarvorous wrote: »

Aye there are probably a few aspects of it like the purge that come off as OP

According to a class rep in another thread, the Expunge ability (self cleanse + resource return) currently costs 2k health to use. There's another ability/morph - Renewing Undeath - which can cleanse 3 negative effects in an AOE, but only if it consumes a corpse. It's not clear at the moment if that corpse has to be inside the AOE radius, or if it'll trigger from one that's simply near the target or the caster.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

sorry, it is 200 ulti, remembered wrong, makes my point stronger.

Minalan

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

sorry, it is 200 ulti, remembered wrong, makes my point stronger.

Not really, a ball group will have more than one person using this, while staggering the ult use and healing newly ressed players to full.

Unless they go and put siege damage back where it was a few weeks ago (omfg damage) then this is going to make ball groups just stupid.

ChefZero

Ok there is no discussion about that a permanent rezz will be broken abusable in ballgroups. But I'm worried about further balancing to this skill without an overhaul. In the current state the gap between broken OP and useless is tiny. Nerf to ultcosts? Won't fix it. Nerf range? Won't fix it. Nerf the amount? 2 ppl is still a problem, 1 would make the skill useless.

I would like to see something like a temporary rezz with buffs and debuffs like the pirate skeleton treatment.

LegacyDM

I see

Kadoin wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Why in all things holy is zos introducing a skill that can resurrect up to 3 dead allies? I get the pve implications but anyone think this is going to work in pvp?

1. The servers already can’t handle the increased calculations the more people there are in a quadrant. What’s the thought process here? Allowing dead people to continue fighting and not removing them from the calculation equation seems counter intuitive to reducing lag,
2. The trolling potential will be ***. Can see it now, troll groups at resources will just stack necros and keep rezzing to the point that it’s just stupid.

What is zos thinking? Am I missing something?

Time to use the lines I see on the forums that usually appear at a time like this before anyone else does:

Stop trying to get strategic group play nerfed!

Just wait until it hits live before saying its OP

X isn't even out yet and you want to nerf it? Wow.

I see this as more of a concern open for discussion as opposed to screaming for a nerf. How will this affect lag? What will be the counter to ball groups running multiple Rez necros? Is the ultimate size appropriate? Valid concerns.

Sheuib

Someone saving ult for a res that takes a Templar like a second to res using kag is a person not using a damaging ult. So it is a trade off that we will have to see how effective it is.

Nemeliom

Just imagine small groups like the ones where 5 people get into a tower and kill 30 players before one of them is dead. Now imagine a necromancer being one of them.

Insco851

Focus the necro.

Necro will always die first against good players. You better be tanky af if you wanna small group as a necro.

Rez ult won’t be OP but I could see a 200 ulti cost in the very near future.

wheem_ESO

Insco851 wrote: »

Focus the necro.

Necro will always die first against good players. You better be tanky af if you wanna small group as a necro.

Rez ult won’t be OP but I could see a 200 ulti cost in the very near future.

It already has a cost of 200 Ultimate right now, pre-PTS. And yes, Necromancers (Magicka, at least) will most likely have to build super-tanky in order to do anything besides Zerg surf. They have no class based mobility whatsoever, and Magicka builds can't dodge roll or sprint to anywhere near the degree that Stamina builds can. While Mist Form is an option (and perhaps a "requirement" in some cases), the current drawbacks on Vampirism are overly harsh for PvP.

Insco851

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Focus the necro.

Necro will always die first against good players. You better be tanky af if you wanna small group as a necro.

Rez ult won’t be OP but I could see a 200 ulti cost in the very near future.

It already has a cost of 200 Ultimate right now, pre-PTS. And yes, Necromancers (Magicka, at least) will most likely have to build super-tanky in order to do anything besides Zerg surf. They have no class based mobility whatsoever, and Magicka builds can't dodge roll or sprint to anywhere near the degree that Stamina builds can. While Mist Form is an option (and perhaps a "requirement" in some cases), the current drawbacks on Vampirism are overly harsh for PvP.

Guess I read here it was currently 150? Maybe that was with ult reduction modifiers.

200 is fine

Joy_Division

It seems that most of the complaints about this ultimate is about other people using it. We're going to have to wait until Elsweyr to see if Necro rezzing is so strong and imblanced that the people worried about the ultimate are actually using it.

If so, then ZOS will make changes.

Akinos

Meh, the necro rez skill could be alot worse, or better depending on how you look at it. In lineage 2 the Bishop class mass resurrection can bring back your whole guild.

Curtdogg47

Don’t you only need to kill the necro and everything it razed will die to?

So Kill the white walkers first and everything else will die? Dam I’m ready for Sunday!

Blinkin8r

Ulti Gen Necro tank will have a place in every ball group. Dragon, bloodspawn, and that new set that gives you heroism while in combat, and nord. Major vulnerability ult and rez ult when needed. Gonna be nasty.

Iskiab

Necro’s going to be strong by the looks of it, rezzing 3 people using an ultimate? Not likely a reason.

I think you underestimate how fast a ball group can mow players down. Coming back alive unbuffed and half health with aoes everywhere... yea go ahead and try using it, more AP for me.

Destyran

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

The ultimate is 150 points right now, you can't exactly spam it. I really believe people are overestimating the impact of it.

I can get that in less than 30 seconds as a healer, without building into ult gen. The Wardens I run with can Perma, and then use a Dawn Breaker before the Perma runs out in good fights. 150 ult is nothing if you know what you're doing.

Still, every 30 seconds is a long time. Definitely not into spammable territory.

12 people 35k-50k health each all wearing sets that compliment the group harmony jewellery novas they hold block when pushing they have healers. It will be CANCEROUS

Vapirko

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

The ultimate is 150 points right now, you can't exactly spam it. I really believe people are overestimating the impact of it.

Are you aware of how fast Necros generate ultimate? Testers were saying that even the high cost ultimate barely feel like they take any time to charge.

Also I agree with OP, most of the necro skills seem like they are going to aggravate all the problems PvP has in terms of performance.

Taleof2Cities

Vapirko wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

The ultimate is 150 points right now, you can't exactly spam it. I really believe people are overestimating the impact of it.

Are you aware of how fast Necros generate ultimate? Testers were saying that even the high cost ultimate barely feel like they take any time to charge.

Also I agree with OP, most of the necro skills seem like they are going to aggravate all the problems PvP has in terms of performance.

No one other than a few testers has actually played the class yet ...

... which means this whole thread (including your reply above) is pure conjecture.

Best wait till after PTS drops before saying necromancer will be the bane of PvP performance ...