A Balance of Power is in Need

CASBrown1996

The problem I have with all the nerfs that are happening is that Zerg Gameplay is being promoted more and more often, 1 patch at a time. I understand that the point of a MMO is to have fun and exciting siege and group gameplay in Cyro, but I feel that players that have not played for as long are giving more advice to ZoS than players who have been here longer. Now we sit with endless nerfs against players who have developed the skill to play there classes and have played them the longest, and because the experienced players have become better and better and adjusted time and time again patch after patch, the new less experienced players begin to cry.(If you find this offensive in anyway, then you are guilty of crying about a class)

I have taken out 1000s of DKs, Templars, NBs, Sorcs and Wardens in PvP and it comes down to one thing which I also strongly disagree on, whose got the Heavy armor. I feel that heavy armor is far more rewarding than any other armor, (when I say heavy, I am not referring to the passives only, because a lot of these sets give vast amounts of damage as reward for taking or dealing damage as well, now you have resistance and damage and this is something that is highly off balance. Light and Med armor is not worth it on Body anymore(unless you have a pocket healer) now players are Tanky and have good damage, and strong heals, I don't think this is fair, when another class comes against me, and I am on my stamblade(for e.g) in med, I can use one Surprise attack and know whether or not I will win, because heavy is more rewarding than med, I have 4500 WD on my stamblade in med, now we have heavy armor players running around with up to 6-7k weapon damage, another thing, nightblade losing its Minor Berserk from Grim Focus why? Make it even harder to kill tanky players, again, tanky players are being rewarded, there is no balance between damage and resistance and this is my major concern, it doesn't matter if you nerf DK wings, Grim Focus, or anything for that matter, but until players start being rewarded for there skill again against multiple new players that charge and Zerg you down, things will never get better, we need to have a level of balance, med armor; shuffle, 2.5 seconds generally of snare immunity, WHAT?. its not worth it when I can get 4 secs from Forward Momentum and run heavy armor and have enough time to cast it without dying cause I am in heavy, you run med in pvp, you need some skill to handle it and know when to get in and out, light armor is in a relatively good spot compared to med, where I feel that if you run stamina, its more rewarding to go heavy than med armor for pvp

So I suppose I come to the end here, 2 major points that need to be looked at.
1. Damage vs Resistance Balancing
2. Skill vs Zerg
Before I leave, I will make it perfectly clear, I am not asking for anyone to be able to 1vX 7-15 people, I am asking to at least give 1 player the ability(like making shuffle 1 sec snare immunity per piece of med)(for a start) to have a fighting chance.

Iskiab

I somewhat agree. Unfortunately pvp in ESO is the tale of two environments:

Environment 1: Those who don't pvp a lot, don't heal themselves, don't run defensive sets, don't run any defense at all. Typical beginner BG people so hitting vigor every once in a while is enough to tip the balance of the BG in your favour. These people think stamblades are OP and complain because they can get ganked and stunlocked PK'd.

Environment 2: Those who pvp a lot, they heal themselves, they run defensive sets and heavy armor as stam. They think stamblades are a bit of a joke and underpowered, they don't want them in their BGs. If a stamblade spends lots of time setting up a gank and it's ineffective, they're spending lots of time away from the group and missing key opportunities to get killing blows. They feel they're fighting short handed and a stamblade is sacrificing too much survivability for ganking power, making them unhealable and free kills for the other team.

I think really things are okay as is. Adapt in BGs if that's your thing and figure out a heavy armor spec yourself. If ganking is your thing you can have fun for a while, but you'll have to switch specs when you start moving up the ranks. Adapt. If your entire spec is designed around killing someone with incap and can't do anything else to contribute that's on you.

The thing you have to realize is you're fighting a losing battle. I know myself as a healer I add defense, and keep adding defense, until I know a stamblade can't gank me. Even if stamblade was buffed I'd end up basicly a pvp tank so you couldn't gank me. You're fighting a losing battle if you're sole gimmick is ganking someone.

TheBonesXXX

It's the base algorithms in combination of how inflated Champion system which bugs me the most, if they'd change the calculations so they're easier to manage I think the game would perform better in terms of balance.

The biggest hurdle is getting @ZOS_BrianWheeler to balance the game around the classes instead of mobs.

Then, I think they could bring the armors, weapons, classes within a bell curve performance wise.

Ditching Cyrodiil from the start and catering to their shareholders really screwed things up.

I think the person who made that decision is short sighted because a lagless, functioning Cyrodiil can and bring in more players than the crown store/pve.

If this game ever functions and doesn't lag with decent balance, people would flock back to it.

Wheeler, get away from your DAoC mindset and inject other old-school games if you wanna go that route.

mursie

stop playing crutch point campaigns and instead do battlegrounds and sotha.

you're medium armor rewards will feel alot more important there.

heavy armor is not nearly as significant to the tank meta problem as crutch points are. it's why crutch points were removed from battlegrounds in the first place. when crutchpoint grounds existed, you had unkillable groups.

everyone in bg's and sotha (at CP160 and above) is on level playing field. there is only one reason to prefer crutch points campaigns over bg's / sotha. A strong desire to club baby seals.

Destyran

I wanna know why I have to try soo hard on my Templar but my sorc I can just spam jump and a few buttons and be 1000% better

Iskiab

mursie wrote: »

stop playing crutch point campaigns and instead do battlegrounds and sotha.

What’s a crutch point? I’m not familiar with that term.

jcm2606

Iskiab wrote: »

mursie wrote: »

stop playing crutch point campaigns and instead do battlegrounds and sotha.

What’s a crutch point? I’m not familiar with that term.

I think it's a hidden variable in the stat calculations, or something. The more crutches you use, the more OP your build becomes.

Obligatory /s.

Mayrael

mursie wrote: »

stop playing crutch point campaigns and instead do battlegrounds and sotha.

you're medium armor rewards will feel alot more important there.

heavy armor is not nearly as significant to the tank meta problem as crutch points are. it's why crutch points were removed from battlegrounds in the first place. when crutchpoint grounds existed, you had unkillable groups.

everyone in bg's and sotha (at CP160 and above) is on level playing field. there is only one reason to prefer crutch points campaigns over bg's / sotha. A strong desire to club baby seals.

TBH I played PvP for years with CP's. Now I play on Sotha and... its like easy mode. Suddenly tanks can be out of gass, there is no 15k lethal arrows, there is no perma roll dodgers, sorcs can't hide forever behind shields... Like a charm, if we would just have better performance...

Iskiab wrote: »

mursie wrote: »

stop playing crutch point campaigns and instead do battlegrounds and sotha.

What’s a crutch point? I’m not familiar with that term.

I guess he meant Champion Points

Qbiken

mursie wrote: »

stop playing crutch point campaigns and instead do battlegrounds and sotha.

you're medium armor rewards will feel alot more important there.

heavy armor is not nearly as significant to the tank meta problem as crutch points are. it's why crutch points were removed from battlegrounds in the first place. when crutchpoint grounds existed, you had unkillable groups.

everyone in bg's and sotha (at CP160 and above) is on level playing field. there is only one reason to prefer crutch points campaigns over bg's / sotha. A strong desire to club baby seals.

Imagine believing No-CP has better balance than CP

silentxthreat

I agree 100%, there is no balance when a player that has 5 heavy 30+k resists and also has really high damage and sustain. Now im not saying nerf the crap out of heavy but they need to buff light and med passives to make it fair and balanced

Qbiken

silentxthreat wrote: »

I agree 100%, there is no balance when a player that has 5 heavy 30+k resists and also has really high damage and sustain. Now im not saying nerf the crap out of heavy but they need to buff light and med passives to make it fair and balanced

Medium and light armor already offers more damage and similar sustain as heavy. And I can easily use 2-3 protective jewellery traits on a medium or light armor build and achieve the same (or higher) resistances as heavy, while still having better damage and sustain than heavy.

The whole "hEaVy ArMoR iS oVeRpErFoRmInG" can easily be translated to = Fury and 7th legion offers a bit much weapon damage with little to no effort.

Saying that medium and light armor passives are inferior to heavy is just meme-worthy at this point.

FearlessOne_2014

Mayrael wrote: »

mursie wrote: »

stop playing crutch point campaigns and instead do battlegrounds and sotha.

you're medium armor rewards will feel alot more important there.

heavy armor is not nearly as significant to the tank meta problem as crutch points are. it's why crutch points were removed from battlegrounds in the first place. when crutchpoint grounds existed, you had unkillable groups.

everyone in bg's and sotha (at CP160 and above) is on level playing field. there is only one reason to prefer crutch points campaigns over bg's / sotha. A strong desire to club baby seals.

TBH I played PvP for years with CP's. Now I play on Sotha and... its like easy mode. Suddenly tanks can be out of gass, there is no 15k lethal arrows, there is no perma roll dodgers, sorcs can't hide forever behind shields... Like a charm, if we would just have better performance...

Iskiab wrote: »

mursie wrote: »

stop playing crutch point campaigns and instead do battlegrounds and sotha.

What’s a crutch point? I’m not familiar with that term.

I guess he meant Champion Points

I highly agree with this. As a magicka based player. I moved to BGs for most of my PvP kicks. Haven't looked at CP PvP in the same light since.

Non CP environment everyone has to be good mechanically or they die because their builds can't carry them here. I see the balance of the devs choices for classes in Non CP environments.

But in CP environment because of the way CPs interact with Heavy Armor sets. Heavy Armor Stamina users are beyond OP there. Builds carry players in CP environments. While skill carry players in Non CP environments. I guess it just upto what you are looking for in PvP.

But honestly specking. If the 30 day Non CP campaign was as populated as the CP one. I would play Cyrodiil instead of BGs alot more. As a Non Heavy Armor Stamina player. Non CP are legitimately the place to have fun at.

Kadoin

CASBrown1996 wrote: »

Before I leave, I will make it perfectly clear, I am not asking for anyone to be able to 1vX 7-15 people, I am asking to at least give 1 player the ability(like making shuffle 1 sec snare immunity per piece of med)(for a start) to have a fighting chance.

It's funny how people keep pretending snares are what really kills them in an outnumbered situation. All this would do is massively buff medium in a 1v1.

Qbiken

Kadoin wrote: »

CASBrown1996 wrote: »

Before I leave, I will make it perfectly clear, I am not asking for anyone to be able to 1vX 7-15 people, I am asking to at least give 1 player the ability(like making shuffle 1 sec snare immunity per piece of med)(for a start) to have a fighting chance.

It's funny how people keep pretending snares are what really kills them in an outnumbered situation. All this would do is massively buff medium in a 1v1.

Snared --> Can´t kite/LoS ---> Zerged ---> Dead

Liww

pvp wil be 'better' when they hard cap dmg mitigation, remove vampire low hp dmg reduction(any anti execute mechanic really, this has no place in a game thats 95% about over healing) , buff medium and remove shields taking resistances into account(not crit resi)untill then we will forever be in "the tankiest will prevail" type of meta.

oh and buff dizzying.

Sheuib

The balance is fine. It is truly the skill level of the players and how they combine their buffs and attacks. I have seen plenty of people copy some heavy armor build and they are still getting smoked. I have seen plenty of people use light and medium armor and tear people up. I know people like to say it is the armor or the champion points but it really is an understanding of how to stack buffs and how to combine attacks.

For example I am running heavy armor but I am also running minor protection, 5% damage reduction from altmer passive, and minor maim from shadowrend. That is a significant amount of damage reduction on top of heavy armor.

The same thing goes for offense. You don't need a high weapon or spell damage to kill people. You need a good burst/CC combination and good penetration.

Mayrael

Qbiken wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

CASBrown1996 wrote: »

Before I leave, I will make it perfectly clear, I am not asking for anyone to be able to 1vX 7-15 people, I am asking to at least give 1 player the ability(like making shuffle 1 sec snare immunity per piece of med)(for a start) to have a fighting chance.

It's funny how people keep pretending snares are what really kills them in an outnumbered situation. All this would do is massively buff medium in a 1v1.

Snared --> Can´t kite/LoS ---> Zerged ---> Dead

I must agree. In 1v1 snare is not such a problem cause 1 person wont generate so much pressure. You can CC that person to, its far more easier to deal with snares and roots in 1v1 situation. Many times I don't even bother to move out of roots etc. while when facing multiple opponents mobility is the key, thats why we need most of all snares nerf. Snares should be treated like hard CC - no hard hitting skill should have snare combined with it. To snare someone you should use skill dedicated for it but I guess this would lead to a lot of cry from casual PvPers "he's OP pls nerf nerf nerf, I can't kill him with my snipe spam ;("