The issues have been resolved, and the ESO Store and Account System are now available. Thank you for your patience!
The issue is resolved, and the North American and European megaservers are now available. Thank you for your patience!
Different types of execute
JinMori
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
✭✭
I thought about this in the last few days, with necro execute being based on more crit under 25% i thought this, if you zos, don't want to add an execute ability for every class, since you've already dabbled in it with necro, what about this.
For example, on dk, you could make it so Under 25 % you could cast your abilities faster, like instead of 1 sec every 0.7, at a reduced cost. Just a thought.
I still think this game could use a new skilline for every class, and maybe a third morph option, but this would be a pretty good way at diversifying executes on classes.
Edited by JinMori on April 8, 2019 4:58PM For example, on dk, you could make it so Under 25 % you could cast your abilities faster, like instead of 1 sec every 0.7, at a reduced cost. Just a thought.
I still think this game could use a new skilline for every class, and maybe a third morph option, but this would be a pretty good way at diversifying executes on classes.
0
-
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DK casts more DoTs than any other class last time I checked. iirc a stam DK was a pure DoT build at one point, at least close to it. As such your suggestion is of little help.
Further, the less experienced player already has a challenge getting their rotation right and you want to make that worse by changing it part way through. It would do more to push lower end players further into the gutter.
DKs do not need an execute to be balanced. They just need to be balanced. When they were OP you could say they started their execute at 100%.
So a big no to the suggestion.3 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »How do you propose to balance DKs breaking the GCD?
It's only in execute, think of it as haste in wow, you basically cast more spells, dots tick faster, etc...
How do i propose to balance it? Not my problem, this is just a suggestion.
Basically what would happen is that during execute your dots would tick slightly faster, but the duration is the same, or they could just reduce the duration but keep the damage the same, and you would basically do a slightly faster rotation, personally i would prefer same dot duration but more ticks.Edited by JinMori on April 8, 2019 5:48PM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »How do you propose to balance DKs breaking the GCD?
This is a good point. It may not be an easy task for Zos to set an override. Especially since I cannot think of a mechanic in game that can change the GCD.
I see above that OP is comparing it to haste, but we do not have anything like that in ESO. This would lead one to think there is a high chance it is not an easy change. I think this is the first killer of the idea. The second being the idea is not needed and OP has not presented a need or justification for the idea.
Further I see OP says balance is not his/her/their problem. I spoke to balance in my first post. Balance is everyone's problem and should always be our first thought when suggesting changes. Always and OP's comments in this area suggest they want change for the sake of it, not for the benefit of the game.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »How do you propose to balance DKs breaking the GCD?
This is a good point. It may not be an easy task for Zos to set an override. Especially since I cannot think of a mechanic in game that can change the GCD.
I see above that OP is comparing it to haste, but we do not have anything like that in ESO. This would lead one to think there is a high chance it is not an easy change. I think this is the first killer of the idea. The second being the idea is not needed and OP has not presented a need or justification for the idea.
Further I see OP says balance is not his/her/their problem. I spoke to balance in my first post. Balance is everyone's problem and should always be our first thought when suggesting changes. Always and OP's comments in this area suggest they want change for the sake of it, not for the benefit of the game.
You do realize that there is a set called blood moon that does exactly that? it changes the gcd.
Clearly it's not that hard if it's already implemented, also a couple of points, you said that an execute isn't needed, it's not that i don;t agree, technically it isn't needed but by going by your logic, nobody needs it, you don't need an execute to balance the game, you don't need an execute on nb or templar, to make them do about the same damage, you just increase the other tooltips, i think you and probably many others missed the point of this, the point is not balance, but fun, for me it would be fun to have a mechanic like that. "they just need to be balanced" that is circular reasoning, "when they were OP you could say they started their execute at 100%", this is just stupid honestly, execute is specifically when the target is at low health, iv'e never heard someone even say something like that aside from you, it doesn't become execute magically because you are doing more damage overall, it;'s just dumb.
You always talk about how i don;t bring any justifications, isn't fun enough? Afterall aren't games made to be fun? The balance is secondary, it's something that you do after you found fun ways to play.
You seem to find a lot of excuses for things that you don;t even know, how would you know that it's hard to code it in the game? Especially when it's already done, you don't, as i said before, you just seem to be here on my post just for the sake of disagreement, and honestly, the only reason i bothered to respond, is not because of you, but because i want other people to see, what exactly this thread is about, and not what you think it is.Edited by JinMori on April 8, 2019 6:39PM3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »How do you propose to balance DKs breaking the GCD?
This is a good point. It may not be an easy task for Zos to set an override. Especially since I cannot think of a mechanic in game that can change the GCD.
I see above that OP is comparing it to haste, but we do not have anything like that in ESO. This would lead one to think there is a high chance it is not an easy change. I think this is the first killer of the idea. The second being the idea is not needed and OP has not presented a need or justification for the idea.
Further I see OP says balance is not his/her/their problem. I spoke to balance in my first post. Balance is everyone's problem and should always be our first thought when suggesting changes. Always and OP's comments in this area suggest they want change for the sake of it, not for the benefit of the game.
You do realize that there is a set called blood moon that does exactly that? it changes the gcd.
Have you actually tested that or are you making an assumption from reading the tooltip?
That question is redundant as I already know the answer. If you look at the first link below, the person analyzed the set and as for the real answer, it only affects your melee light attack speed, not your attack speed in general.
So you are incorrect that it affects the GCD. Making false assumptions is not a good way to theorycraft or provide suggestions for changes.
https://fextralife.com/blood-moon-eso-sets-guide-werewolf-unleashed/
Basically, it only affects doing light attack after light attack. It does not even benefit if weaving light attacks into skills.DocFrost72 wrote: »How do you propose to balance DKs breaking the GCD?
This is a good point. It may not be an easy task for Zos to set an override. Especially since I cannot think of a mechanic in game that can change the GCD.
I see above that OP is comparing it to haste, but we do not have anything like that in ESO. This would lead one to think there is a high chance it is not an easy change. I think this is the first killer of the idea. The second being the idea is not needed and OP has not presented a need or justification for the idea.
Further I see OP says balance is not his/her/their problem. I spoke to balance in my first post. Balance is everyone's problem and should always be our first thought when suggesting changes. Always and OP's comments in this area suggest they want change for the sake of it, not for the benefit of the game.
You seem to find a lot of excuses for things that you don;t even know, how would you know that it's hard to code it in the game? Especially when it's already done, you don't, as i said before, you just seem to be here on my post just for the sake of disagreement, and honestly, the only reason i bothered to respond, is not because of you, but because i want other people to see, what exactly this thread is about, and not what you think it is.
I think the above example debunks what you say here. I do not have to make excuses since I am pointing out how things actually work, not providing false information as you are. I will not even get into your comment about the coding of this since your basis for that comment is debunked as everything else has been.
It is great people think of ideas and present them here but you need to understand you are asking for critical replies to those ideas. it is improper to complain and best to make sure your information is correct.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »How do you propose to balance DKs breaking the GCD?
This is a good point. It may not be an easy task for Zos to set an override. Especially since I cannot think of a mechanic in game that can change the GCD.
I see above that OP is comparing it to haste, but we do not have anything like that in ESO. This would lead one to think there is a high chance it is not an easy change. I think this is the first killer of the idea. The second being the idea is not needed and OP has not presented a need or justification for the idea.
Further I see OP says balance is not his/her/their problem. I spoke to balance in my first post. Balance is everyone's problem and should always be our first thought when suggesting changes. Always and OP's comments in this area suggest they want change for the sake of it, not for the benefit of the game.
You do realize that there is a set called blood moon that does exactly that? it changes the gcd.
Have you actually tested that or are you making an assumption from reading the tooltip?
That question is redundant as I already know the answer. If you look at the first link below, the person analyzed the set and as for the real answer, it only affects your melee light attack speed, not your attack speed in general.
So you are incorrect that it affects the GCD. Making false assumptions is not a good way to theorycraft or provide suggestions for changes.
https://fextralife.com/blood-moon-eso-sets-guide-werewolf-unleashed/
Basically, it only affects doing light attack after light attack. It does not even benefit if weaving light attacks into skills.DocFrost72 wrote: »How do you propose to balance DKs breaking the GCD?
This is a good point. It may not be an easy task for Zos to set an override. Especially since I cannot think of a mechanic in game that can change the GCD.
I see above that OP is comparing it to haste, but we do not have anything like that in ESO. This would lead one to think there is a high chance it is not an easy change. I think this is the first killer of the idea. The second being the idea is not needed and OP has not presented a need or justification for the idea.
Further I see OP says balance is not his/her/their problem. I spoke to balance in my first post. Balance is everyone's problem and should always be our first thought when suggesting changes. Always and OP's comments in this area suggest they want change for the sake of it, not for the benefit of the game.
You seem to find a lot of excuses for things that you don;t even know, how would you know that it's hard to code it in the game? Especially when it's already done, you don't, as i said before, you just seem to be here on my post just for the sake of disagreement, and honestly, the only reason i bothered to respond, is not because of you, but because i want other people to see, what exactly this thread is about, and not what you think it is.
I think the above example debunks what you say here. I do not have to make excuses since I am pointing out how things actually work, not providing false information as you are. I will not even get into your comment about the coding of this since your basis for that comment is debunked as everything else has been.
It is great people think of ideas and present them here but you need to understand you are asking for critical replies to those ideas. it is improper to complain and best to make sure your information is correct.
That the point ffs, if they can change the gcd of light attacks what makes it harder to do the same for abilities??
Honestly, iv'e learned that talking to you, is just useless, you will come up with anything, you are so pedantic that talking to you is tiring to say the least, and you don't just do that with me, you are really annoying.
So honestly, from now on i will respond to you only in situations where i have to clarify something because you come up with misconstrued ideas, are you seriously willing to go this far just for the sake of disagreement, do i seriously have to believe that you didn't understand the meaning behind my previous post?
I refuse to believe it.
I don;t know if you like it being overly pedantic and seemingly purposefully missing the points, but honestly, that kind of attitude is really just annoying, so i will just completely cut you off from now on, unless it's absolutely necessary to clear up misunderstandings, just like i did before, you will not get it anyway, but at ;east other people might understand better.
Good day.
Every single post i make there is you, always talking about how i supposedly didn't bring any justifications for it, even though i did, but maybe you didn't agree with it, missing the point, being overly pedantic, and i'm just done with it, you are one of the most annoying person i have even had the displeasure to met.
Also when did i ever ask for critical response? Never have i, i only suggested something, you are free to criticize it, but don;t put words in my mouth.Edited by JinMori on April 9, 2019 2:13AM3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Again here you are demonstrating a lack of understanding of some basics in the game.
Light attacks are not on a GCD. It is why we can weave them into skills and get the added damage without much added time.
So you can refuse to respond to me all you want. I understand how inconvenient it is to have someone explain how the game really works when you clearly do not.
So when you start getting it right I will probably find less need to point out the glaring holes in your ideas.
BTW, you asked for a critical review of your idea when you posted it in the forums. I have not put words in your mouth by any measure.
Edited by idk on April 9, 2019 2:27AM0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Our guy here doesn't consider 0.7 gcd on la a gcd, so yea, are you trying your best to cause misunderstandings?
Do i have to spell it out for you words for words? If they already made it possible to change the gcd of light attacks, what would make it much harder to change the gcd of abilities, for dk execute for example?
Again, if you try to misconstrue, my argument i will respond, but man, you are trying your best at being annoying.
We already have at least one example of changing the gcd of something, in this case la, and we have some skills that take more than 1 second to cast, so even though i am not a dev, going by these facts alone i assume that it is possible and not too hard to code it into the game, could be wrong, but going by what we have right now id say probably not, it's only a matter of , is zos willing to do it?Edited by JinMori on April 9, 2019 2:36AM4 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Our guy here doesn't consider 0.7 gcd on la a gcd, so yea, are you trying your best to cause misunderstandings?
Do i have to spell it out for you words for words? If they already made it possible to change the gcd of light attacks, what would make it much harder to change the gcd of abilities, for dk execute for example?
Again, if you try to misconstrue, my argument i will respond, but man, you are trying your best at being annoying.
Do I need to spell it out for you word for word.
It is totally irrelevant that it speeds up light attacks as that only helps with doing light attack after light attack. It is basically the same as an old weapon trait was that no one used because it was so bad.
It certainly does not speed up the GCD of skills as you falsely suggested it did and nothing has ever been in the game that shortened the GCD.
That destroys your whole idea that the mechanics for your suggestion are already in game. You can keep falsely stating that I misconstrue your "argument" that is based on false claims but anyone who actually reads what you post here knows you do not know what you are talking about.
Edit: I am done with this thread unless you actually come up with something that makes sense and you demonstrate actual basic knowledge of the related mechanics which you have not doe so far.
Have a good day.
Edited by idk on April 9, 2019 3:16AM0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Our guy here doesn't consider 0.7 gcd on la a gcd, so yea, are you trying your best to cause misunderstandings?
Do i have to spell it out for you words for words? If they already made it possible to change the gcd of light attacks, what would make it much harder to change the gcd of abilities, for dk execute for example?
Again, if you try to misconstrue, my argument i will respond, but man, you are trying your best at being annoying.
Do I need to spell it out for you word for word.
It is totally irrelevant that it speeds up light attacks as that only helps with doing light attack after light attack. It is basically the same as an old weapon trait was that no one used because it was so bad.
It certainly does not speed up the GCD of skills as you falsely suggested it did and nothing has ever been in the game that shortened the GCD.
That destroys your whole idea that the mechanics for your suggestion are already in game. You can keep falsely stating that I misconstrue your "argument" that is based on false claims but anyone who actually reads what you post here knows you do not know what you are talking about.
Edit: I am done with this thread unless you actually come up with something that makes sense and you demonstrate actual basic knowledge of the related mechanics which you have not doe so far.
Have a good day.
Ok, When did i suggest that it changes the gcd of abilities? i *** dare you to find that quote.
You are really incredible dude.
You just keep missing the point over and over and over and over and over, all the while, making points that i never made, and passing them as if i made them, you are annoying to a level that honestly is getting unbelievable.
I just don't know wtf is wrong with you, either try to understand the point, or just get out, i don't get why you are so overly pedantic, you focus on extremely minor details that are easily understood in the context, i cannot believe that you still did not understand what i was trying to suggest with the blood moon thing, which was, if they can already shorten the light attack gcd, then it shouldn't be harder to shorten the ability gcd, but you just keep missing the point.Edited by JinMori on April 9, 2019 5:24AM0 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
For example, on dk, you could make it so Under 25 % you could cast your abilities faster, like instead of 1 sec every 0.7, at a reduced cost. Just a thought.Ok, When did i suggest that it changes the gcd of abilities? i *** dare you to find that quote.
Im just saying that that would be both a strange, possibly difficult to manage buff that would also staggeringly increase dps. In ten seconds you can fire off eleven abilities with standard GCD. With your proposed change you could fire off 15.28 (let's round down to 14), or roughly a 40% damage increase if using nothing but a spammable.
My primary concern is that you are suggesting something that will drastically alter the rules of the game, and additionally empower one specific class a great deal. You don't have to convince me of anything, much less that this is a good idea. If you want someone to agree though, discourse is a good place to start. Discourse rarely involves such statements asHow do i propose to balance it? Not my problem, this is just a suggestion.
Edited by DocFrost72 on April 9, 2019 5:51AM3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DocFrost, the last item you quoted summed up the real issues with the thought process here.DocFrost72 wrote: »How do i propose to balance it? Not my problem, this is just a suggestion.
If an idea is not taking balance into consideration then it is not a fully thought out idea. Besides the facts I pointed out that there does not appear to be a system in game to speed up the GCD for skills let alone make DoTs tick faster.0 -
Ajax_22✭✭✭✭✭Executes are supposed to increase your effectiveness against enemies below a certain threshold. Reducing the GCD doesn't work for an execute, because it would effect everything as long as the Dragon Knight was fighting an enemy in execute range. A better execute would be to increase the amount of damage DoTs do within the threshold. They could also increase the damage of all attacks by X% for each negative effect on an enemy, with a maximum of Y%, under 25%. Both of those would complement what the Dragon Knight is, and fit within this game's systems.Edited by Ajax_22 on April 9, 2019 1:48PM2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Executes are supposed to increase your effectiveness against enemies below a certain threshold. Reducing the GCD doesn't work for an execute, because it would effect everything as long as the Dragon Knight was fighting an enemy in execute range. A better execute would be to increase the amount of damage DoTs do within the threshold. They could also increase the damage of all attacks by X% for each negative effect on an enemy, with a maximum of Y%, under 25%. Both of those would complement what the Dragon Knight is, and fit within this game's systems.
This is even a better point than the game is likely not setup for what OP suggests.
With multiple targets it would only take one to be below the threshold (or a requirement that all active targets be below the threshold.
As I am sure OP is very well aware, there are a great many boss fights with multiple targets such as Rakkhat, Assembly General, vAS+2, and vCR+3 that this suggestion would be extremely problematic.
There is still the issue that if DKs were on par with other classes Zos would have to make their skills weaker to bring in any type of execute stage. I do not think I like being weaker for most of the fight. Yes, I know, OP already stated balance is not their problem.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »
For example, on dk, you could make it so Under 25 % you could cast your abilities faster, like instead of 1 sec every 0.7, at a reduced cost. Just a thought.Ok, When did i suggest that it changes the gcd of abilities? i *** dare you to find that quote.
Im just saying that that would be both a strange, possibly difficult to manage buff that would also staggeringly increase dps. In ten seconds you can fire off eleven abilities with standard GCD. With your proposed change you could fire off 15.28 (let's round down to 14), or roughly a 40% damage increase if using nothing but a spammable.
My primary concern is that you are suggesting something that will drastically alter the rules of the game, and additionally empower one specific class a great deal. You don't have to convince me of anything, much less that this is a good idea. If you want someone to agree though, discourse is a good place to start. Discourse rarely involves such statements asHow do i propose to balance it? Not my problem, this is just a suggestion.
What i made was just a statement , you are free to agree or disagree with my premise, when i said it's not my problem, i said that, because mine is just a suggestion, i will not do number crunching for a suggestion that could or could not be taken into consideration, and frankly, it's not my job.
But honestly, you seem to be misunderstanding something, i am not here to farm agrees, i am not here to make as many people agree with me, i am here to post something that i think would be a nice addition to the game, that is it, if you agree fine.Edited by JinMori on April 9, 2019 2:22PM0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Executes are supposed to increase your effectiveness against enemies below a certain threshold. Reducing the GCD doesn't work for an execute, because it would effect everything as long as the Dragon Knight was fighting an enemy in execute range. A better execute would be to increase the amount of damage DoTs do within the threshold. They could also increase the damage of all attacks by X% for each negative effect on an enemy, with a maximum of Y%, under 25%. Both of those would complement what the Dragon Knight is, and fit within this game's systems.
Good point, it cold be solved if the change would work only if you are targeting someone that is under 25%, afterall, necro execute would have the same exact problem, and i'm sure that zos already thought of this.
The problem i have with the damage increases like what you suggested there, is that they don;t change the gameplay in any way, it's not really any fun, you just do the same at a higher damage, but with reduced gcd, basically haste, you do your rotation faster which is noticeable.Edited by JinMori on April 9, 2019 2:11PM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Executes are supposed to increase your effectiveness against enemies below a certain threshold. Reducing the GCD doesn't work for an execute, because it would effect everything as long as the Dragon Knight was fighting an enemy in execute range. A better execute would be to increase the amount of damage DoTs do within the threshold. They could also increase the damage of all attacks by X% for each negative effect on an enemy, with a maximum of Y%, under 25%. Both of those would complement what the Dragon Knight is, and fit within this game's systems.
Good point, it cold be solved if the change would work only if you are targeting someone that is under 25%, afterall, necro execute would have the same exact problem, and i'm sure that zos already thought of this.
The problem i have with the damage increases like what you suggested there, is that they don;t change the gameplay in any way, it's not really any fun, you just do the same at a higher damage, but with reduced gcd, basically haste, you do your rotation faster which is noticeable.
For your suggestion in the OP it would not be appropriate that the GCD be sped up when targeting someone under 25% health if there are other targets with higher health being hit by the skills. Fiery Breath and it's morphs are great examples of why this would be a problem
With the Necromaner passive Death Knell that increases critical strike chance against targets below a certain health it does not have the same issue as it only affects damage hitting the target that meets the specification.
His suggestion of a passive that would increase the damage to low health targets probably has a greater chance of happening. It lacks the pitfalls that have been made clear in this thread including the possibility new systems would have to be added to compensate.
Things like this are why posting ideas is great. The critical review of the idea helps iron out issues and bring possible ideas to light, regardless if it is welcome or not.
0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Executes are supposed to increase your effectiveness against enemies below a certain threshold. Reducing the GCD doesn't work for an execute, because it would effect everything as long as the Dragon Knight was fighting an enemy in execute range. A better execute would be to increase the amount of damage DoTs do within the threshold. They could also increase the damage of all attacks by X% for each negative effect on an enemy, with a maximum of Y%, under 25%. Both of those would complement what the Dragon Knight is, and fit within this game's systems.
Good point, it cold be solved if the change would work only if you are targeting someone that is under 25%, afterall, necro execute would have the same exact problem, and i'm sure that zos already thought of this.
The problem i have with the damage increases like what you suggested there, is that they don;t change the gameplay in any way, it's not really any fun, you just do the same at a higher damage, but with reduced gcd, basically haste, you do your rotation faster which is noticeable.
For your suggestion in the OP it would not be appropriate that the GCD be sped up when targeting someone under 25% health if there are other targets with higher health being hit by the skills. Fiery Breath and it's morphs are great examples of why this would be a problem
With the Necromaner passive Death Knell that increases critical strike chance against targets below a certain health it does not have the same issue as it only affects damage hitting the target that meets the specification.
His suggestion of a passive that would increase the damage to low health targets probably has a greater chance of happening. It lacks the pitfalls that have been made clear in this thread including the possibility new systems would have to be added to compensate.
Things like this are why posting ideas is great. The critical review of the idea helps iron out issues and bring possible ideas to light, regardless if it is welcome or not.
I agree with you on one thing, it does have a greater chance to happen purely for the fact that it's easier to implement, but it's also less fun.
The point was that you would get reduced gcd and cost only if you are targeting someone below 25%, this would add a very interesting mechanic, both in aoe and st, but you would not get the buff even if enemies around you were at 25 % if you do not target them, otherwise ofc it would be broken op in add fights, basically it's like necro exe, but instead of crit you get a faster rotation.
We already have things like reverse slice, they don't magically apply the execute if you has someone around you that is below 50 % as long as you attack a target that is above that threshold, this would be the same principle.
I can see why it would be not as easy to implement, but honestly, it would definitely be much more interesting.Edited by JinMori on April 9, 2019 2:58PM0 -
Ajax_22✭✭✭✭✭Executes are supposed to increase your effectiveness against enemies below a certain threshold. Reducing the GCD doesn't work for an execute, because it would effect everything as long as the Dragon Knight was fighting an enemy in execute range. A better execute would be to increase the amount of damage DoTs do within the threshold. They could also increase the damage of all attacks by X% for each negative effect on an enemy, with a maximum of Y%, under 25%. Both of those would complement what the Dragon Knight is, and fit within this game's systems.
Good point, it cold be solved if the change would work only if you are targeting someone that is under 25%, afterall, necro execute would have the same exact problem, and i'm sure that zos already thought of this.
The problem i have with the damage increases like what you suggested there, is that they don;t change the gameplay in any way, it's not really any fun, you just do the same at a higher damage, but with reduced gcd, basically haste, you do your rotation faster which is noticeable.
For your suggestion in the OP it would not be appropriate that the GCD be sped up when targeting someone under 25% health if there are other targets with higher health being hit by the skills. Fiery Breath and it's morphs are great examples of why this would be a problem
With the Necromaner passive Death Knell that increases critical strike chance against targets below a certain health it does not have the same issue as it only affects damage hitting the target that meets the specification.
His suggestion of a passive that would increase the damage to low health targets probably has a greater chance of happening. It lacks the pitfalls that have been made clear in this thread including the possibility new systems would have to be added to compensate.
Things like this are why posting ideas is great. The critical review of the idea helps iron out issues and bring possible ideas to light, regardless if it is welcome or not.
I agree with you on one thing, it does have a greater chance to happen purely for the fact that it's easier to implement, but it's also less fun.
The point was that you would get reduced gcd and cost only if you are targeting someone below 25%, this would add a very interesting mechanic, both in aoe and st, but you would not get the buff even if enemies around you were at 25 % if you do not target them, otherwise ofc it would be broken op in add fights, basically it's like necro exe, but instead of crit you get a faster rotation.
We already have things like reverse slice, they don't magically apply the execute if you has someone around you that is below 50 % as long as you attack a target that is above that threshold, this would be the same principle.
I can see why it would be not as easy to implement, but honestly, it would definitely be much more interesting.
I don't think you fully understand what this would do to combat. Speeding up the GCD would be utterly broken. Just because something is fun doesn't mean it belongs in the game.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Executes are supposed to increase your effectiveness against enemies below a certain threshold. Reducing the GCD doesn't work for an execute, because it would effect everything as long as the Dragon Knight was fighting an enemy in execute range. A better execute would be to increase the amount of damage DoTs do within the threshold. They could also increase the damage of all attacks by X% for each negative effect on an enemy, with a maximum of Y%, under 25%. Both of those would complement what the Dragon Knight is, and fit within this game's systems.
Good point, it cold be solved if the change would work only if you are targeting someone that is under 25%, afterall, necro execute would have the same exact problem, and i'm sure that zos already thought of this.
The problem i have with the damage increases like what you suggested there, is that they don;t change the gameplay in any way, it's not really any fun, you just do the same at a higher damage, but with reduced gcd, basically haste, you do your rotation faster which is noticeable.
For your suggestion in the OP it would not be appropriate that the GCD be sped up when targeting someone under 25% health if there are other targets with higher health being hit by the skills. Fiery Breath and it's morphs are great examples of why this would be a problem
With the Necromaner passive Death Knell that increases critical strike chance against targets below a certain health it does not have the same issue as it only affects damage hitting the target that meets the specification.
His suggestion of a passive that would increase the damage to low health targets probably has a greater chance of happening. It lacks the pitfalls that have been made clear in this thread including the possibility new systems would have to be added to compensate.
Things like this are why posting ideas is great. The critical review of the idea helps iron out issues and bring possible ideas to light, regardless if it is welcome or not.
I agree with you on one thing, it does have a greater chance to happen purely for the fact that it's easier to implement, but it's also less fun.
The point was that you would get reduced gcd and cost only if you are targeting someone below 25%, this would add a very interesting mechanic, both in aoe and st, but you would not get the buff even if enemies around you were at 25 % if you do not target them, otherwise ofc it would be broken op in add fights, basically it's like necro exe, but instead of crit you get a faster rotation.
We already have things like reverse slice, they don't magically apply the execute if you has someone around you that is below 50 % as long as you attack a target that is above that threshold, this would be the same principle.
I can see why it would be not as easy to implement, but honestly, it would definitely be much more interesting.
I don't think you fully understand what this would do to combat. Speeding up the GCD would be utterly broken. Just because something is fun doesn't mean it belongs in the game.
So, there are a few things that come to mind, mainly aoe dots like blockade of fire, the main problem i see is that if you cast it on someone that is below 25 % in a aoe situation you will do way more aoe damage than anyone else, there are a few ways to circumvent this that come to mind right now.
1: aoe dots gcd is reduced during execute, but you don't tick faster, this would be the easiest solution
2: they do tick faster, but only on the target you specifically used it on, this would be much harder to implement and they probably will not.
For direct damage aoe abilities like steel tornado, you either don;t apply the changes to gcd, or you apply them, and give players another layer of complexity when deciding specifically which enemy to target, but with the changes to steel tornado, that supposedly we would have in elsweyr, i can;t really see this being op, even if the changes apply.
Number crunching is the least problematic, because you just have to test, there is no complexity, just finding the right number, like every other ability in the game.
It's not that hard to see the possible problems this could bring, but the fact is that there are always ways around it to make in not as strong or stronger as you need, your point could be applied to basically anything when it comes to balance to be honest.
I don;t think you fully understand what "insert name" could do to the game, you could kill people or npcs much faster if it's not balanced, yes, i know right, badly balanced skills passives etc, could be broken op, who knew....
Edited by JinMori on April 9, 2019 4:56PM0 -
Ajax_22✭✭✭✭✭Executes are supposed to increase your effectiveness against enemies below a certain threshold. Reducing the GCD doesn't work for an execute, because it would effect everything as long as the Dragon Knight was fighting an enemy in execute range. A better execute would be to increase the amount of damage DoTs do within the threshold. They could also increase the damage of all attacks by X% for each negative effect on an enemy, with a maximum of Y%, under 25%. Both of those would complement what the Dragon Knight is, and fit within this game's systems.
Good point, it cold be solved if the change would work only if you are targeting someone that is under 25%, afterall, necro execute would have the same exact problem, and i'm sure that zos already thought of this.
The problem i have with the damage increases like what you suggested there, is that they don;t change the gameplay in any way, it's not really any fun, you just do the same at a higher damage, but with reduced gcd, basically haste, you do your rotation faster which is noticeable.
For your suggestion in the OP it would not be appropriate that the GCD be sped up when targeting someone under 25% health if there are other targets with higher health being hit by the skills. Fiery Breath and it's morphs are great examples of why this would be a problem
With the Necromaner passive Death Knell that increases critical strike chance against targets below a certain health it does not have the same issue as it only affects damage hitting the target that meets the specification.
His suggestion of a passive that would increase the damage to low health targets probably has a greater chance of happening. It lacks the pitfalls that have been made clear in this thread including the possibility new systems would have to be added to compensate.
Things like this are why posting ideas is great. The critical review of the idea helps iron out issues and bring possible ideas to light, regardless if it is welcome or not.
I agree with you on one thing, it does have a greater chance to happen purely for the fact that it's easier to implement, but it's also less fun.
The point was that you would get reduced gcd and cost only if you are targeting someone below 25%, this would add a very interesting mechanic, both in aoe and st, but you would not get the buff even if enemies around you were at 25 % if you do not target them, otherwise ofc it would be broken op in add fights, basically it's like necro exe, but instead of crit you get a faster rotation.
We already have things like reverse slice, they don't magically apply the execute if you has someone around you that is below 50 % as long as you attack a target that is above that threshold, this would be the same principle.
I can see why it would be not as easy to implement, but honestly, it would definitely be much more interesting.
I don't think you fully understand what this would do to combat. Speeding up the GCD would be utterly broken. Just because something is fun doesn't mean it belongs in the game.
So, there are a few things that come to mind, mainly aoe dots like blockade of fire, the main problem i see is that if you cast it on someone that is below 25 % in a aoe situation you will do way more aoe damage than anyone else, there are a few ways to circumvent this that come to mind right now.
1: aoe dots gcd is reduced during execute, but you don't tick faster, this would be the easiest solution
2: they do tick faster, but only on the target you specifically used it on, this would be much harder to implement and they probably will not.
For direct damage aoe abilities like steel tornado, you either don;t apply the changes to gcd, or you apply them, and give players another layer of complexity when deciding specifically which enemy to target, but with the changes to steel tornado, that supposedly we would have in elsweyr, i can;t really see this being op, even if the changes apply.
Number crunching is the least problematic, because you just have to test, there is no complexity, just finding the right number, like every other ability in the game.
It's not that hard to see the possible problems this could bring, but the fact is that there are always ways around it to make in not as strong or stronger as you need, your point could be applied to basically anything when it comes to balance to be honest.
I don;t think you fully understand what "insert name" could do to the game, you could kill people or npcs much faster if it's not balanced, yes, i know right, badly balanced skills passives etc, could be broken op, who knew....
So you don't.
This wouldn't just effect damage. This effects everything. You would get more actions per minute, which would effect your healing, ability to CC, ability to apply continuous pressure. This would change the entire flow of combat for one class. Nothing else in the game has this large of an impact.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Executes are supposed to increase your effectiveness against enemies below a certain threshold. Reducing the GCD doesn't work for an execute, because it would effect everything as long as the Dragon Knight was fighting an enemy in execute range. A better execute would be to increase the amount of damage DoTs do within the threshold. They could also increase the damage of all attacks by X% for each negative effect on an enemy, with a maximum of Y%, under 25%. Both of those would complement what the Dragon Knight is, and fit within this game's systems.
Good point, it cold be solved if the change would work only if you are targeting someone that is under 25%, afterall, necro execute would have the same exact problem, and i'm sure that zos already thought of this.
The problem i have with the damage increases like what you suggested there, is that they don;t change the gameplay in any way, it's not really any fun, you just do the same at a higher damage, but with reduced gcd, basically haste, you do your rotation faster which is noticeable.
For your suggestion in the OP it would not be appropriate that the GCD be sped up when targeting someone under 25% health if there are other targets with higher health being hit by the skills. Fiery Breath and it's morphs are great examples of why this would be a problem
With the Necromaner passive Death Knell that increases critical strike chance against targets below a certain health it does not have the same issue as it only affects damage hitting the target that meets the specification.
His suggestion of a passive that would increase the damage to low health targets probably has a greater chance of happening. It lacks the pitfalls that have been made clear in this thread including the possibility new systems would have to be added to compensate.
Things like this are why posting ideas is great. The critical review of the idea helps iron out issues and bring possible ideas to light, regardless if it is welcome or not.
I agree with you on one thing, it does have a greater chance to happen purely for the fact that it's easier to implement, but it's also less fun.
The point was that you would get reduced gcd and cost only if you are targeting someone below 25%, this would add a very interesting mechanic, both in aoe and st, but you would not get the buff even if enemies around you were at 25 % if you do not target them, otherwise ofc it would be broken op in add fights, basically it's like necro exe, but instead of crit you get a faster rotation.
We already have things like reverse slice, they don't magically apply the execute if you has someone around you that is below 50 % as long as you attack a target that is above that threshold, this would be the same principle.
I can see why it would be not as easy to implement, but honestly, it would definitely be much more interesting.
I don't think you fully understand what this would do to combat. Speeding up the GCD would be utterly broken. Just because something is fun doesn't mean it belongs in the game.
So, there are a few things that come to mind, mainly aoe dots like blockade of fire, the main problem i see is that if you cast it on someone that is below 25 % in a aoe situation you will do way more aoe damage than anyone else, there are a few ways to circumvent this that come to mind right now.
1: aoe dots gcd is reduced during execute, but you don't tick faster, this would be the easiest solution
2: they do tick faster, but only on the target you specifically used it on, this would be much harder to implement and they probably will not.
For direct damage aoe abilities like steel tornado, you either don;t apply the changes to gcd, or you apply them, and give players another layer of complexity when deciding specifically which enemy to target, but with the changes to steel tornado, that supposedly we would have in elsweyr, i can;t really see this being op, even if the changes apply.
Number crunching is the least problematic, because you just have to test, there is no complexity, just finding the right number, like every other ability in the game.
It's not that hard to see the possible problems this could bring, but the fact is that there are always ways around it to make in not as strong or stronger as you need, your point could be applied to basically anything when it comes to balance to be honest.
I don;t think you fully understand what "insert name" could do to the game, you could kill people or npcs much faster if it's not balanced, yes, i know right, badly balanced skills passives etc, could be broken op, who knew....
So you don't.
This wouldn't just effect damage. This effects everything. You would get more actions per minute, which would effect your healing, ability to CC, ability to apply continuous pressure. This would change the entire flow of combat for one class. Nothing else in the game has this large of an impact.
Maybe i should have been more precise on that, i was talking about damage abilities specifically to be honest because that's what i usually play with.
Edited by JinMori on April 9, 2019 5:21PM0 -
Ajax_22✭✭✭✭✭Executes are supposed to increase your effectiveness against enemies below a certain threshold. Reducing the GCD doesn't work for an execute, because it would effect everything as long as the Dragon Knight was fighting an enemy in execute range. A better execute would be to increase the amount of damage DoTs do within the threshold. They could also increase the damage of all attacks by X% for each negative effect on an enemy, with a maximum of Y%, under 25%. Both of those would complement what the Dragon Knight is, and fit within this game's systems.
Good point, it cold be solved if the change would work only if you are targeting someone that is under 25%, afterall, necro execute would have the same exact problem, and i'm sure that zos already thought of this.
The problem i have with the damage increases like what you suggested there, is that they don;t change the gameplay in any way, it's not really any fun, you just do the same at a higher damage, but with reduced gcd, basically haste, you do your rotation faster which is noticeable.
For your suggestion in the OP it would not be appropriate that the GCD be sped up when targeting someone under 25% health if there are other targets with higher health being hit by the skills. Fiery Breath and it's morphs are great examples of why this would be a problem
With the Necromaner passive Death Knell that increases critical strike chance against targets below a certain health it does not have the same issue as it only affects damage hitting the target that meets the specification.
His suggestion of a passive that would increase the damage to low health targets probably has a greater chance of happening. It lacks the pitfalls that have been made clear in this thread including the possibility new systems would have to be added to compensate.
Things like this are why posting ideas is great. The critical review of the idea helps iron out issues and bring possible ideas to light, regardless if it is welcome or not.
I agree with you on one thing, it does have a greater chance to happen purely for the fact that it's easier to implement, but it's also less fun.
The point was that you would get reduced gcd and cost only if you are targeting someone below 25%, this would add a very interesting mechanic, both in aoe and st, but you would not get the buff even if enemies around you were at 25 % if you do not target them, otherwise ofc it would be broken op in add fights, basically it's like necro exe, but instead of crit you get a faster rotation.
We already have things like reverse slice, they don't magically apply the execute if you has someone around you that is below 50 % as long as you attack a target that is above that threshold, this would be the same principle.
I can see why it would be not as easy to implement, but honestly, it would definitely be much more interesting.
I don't think you fully understand what this would do to combat. Speeding up the GCD would be utterly broken. Just because something is fun doesn't mean it belongs in the game.
So, there are a few things that come to mind, mainly aoe dots like blockade of fire, the main problem i see is that if you cast it on someone that is below 25 % in a aoe situation you will do way more aoe damage than anyone else, there are a few ways to circumvent this that come to mind right now.
1: aoe dots gcd is reduced during execute, but you don't tick faster, this would be the easiest solution
2: they do tick faster, but only on the target you specifically used it on, this would be much harder to implement and they probably will not.
For direct damage aoe abilities like steel tornado, you either don;t apply the changes to gcd, or you apply them, and give players another layer of complexity when deciding specifically which enemy to target, but with the changes to steel tornado, that supposedly we would have in elsweyr, i can;t really see this being op, even if the changes apply.
Number crunching is the least problematic, because you just have to test, there is no complexity, just finding the right number, like every other ability in the game.
It's not that hard to see the possible problems this could bring, but the fact is that there are always ways around it to make in not as strong or stronger as you need, your point could be applied to basically anything when it comes to balance to be honest.
I don;t think you fully understand what "insert name" could do to the game, you could kill people or npcs much faster if it's not balanced, yes, i know right, badly balanced skills passives etc, could be broken op, who knew....
So you don't.
This wouldn't just effect damage. This effects everything. You would get more actions per minute, which would effect your healing, ability to CC, ability to apply continuous pressure. This would change the entire flow of combat for one class. Nothing else in the game has this large of an impact.
Maybe i should have been more precise on that, i was talking about damage abilities specifically to be honest because that's what i usually play with.
I know you were. That doesn't change anything I just typed. Like I said you fundamentally don't understand what this would do.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Executes are supposed to increase your effectiveness against enemies below a certain threshold. Reducing the GCD doesn't work for an execute, because it would effect everything as long as the Dragon Knight was fighting an enemy in execute range. A better execute would be to increase the amount of damage DoTs do within the threshold. They could also increase the damage of all attacks by X% for each negative effect on an enemy, with a maximum of Y%, under 25%. Both of those would complement what the Dragon Knight is, and fit within this game's systems.
Good point, it cold be solved if the change would work only if you are targeting someone that is under 25%, afterall, necro execute would have the same exact problem, and i'm sure that zos already thought of this.
The problem i have with the damage increases like what you suggested there, is that they don;t change the gameplay in any way, it's not really any fun, you just do the same at a higher damage, but with reduced gcd, basically haste, you do your rotation faster which is noticeable.
For your suggestion in the OP it would not be appropriate that the GCD be sped up when targeting someone under 25% health if there are other targets with higher health being hit by the skills. Fiery Breath and it's morphs are great examples of why this would be a problem
With the Necromaner passive Death Knell that increases critical strike chance against targets below a certain health it does not have the same issue as it only affects damage hitting the target that meets the specification.
His suggestion of a passive that would increase the damage to low health targets probably has a greater chance of happening. It lacks the pitfalls that have been made clear in this thread including the possibility new systems would have to be added to compensate.
Things like this are why posting ideas is great. The critical review of the idea helps iron out issues and bring possible ideas to light, regardless if it is welcome or not.
I agree with you on one thing, it does have a greater chance to happen purely for the fact that it's easier to implement, but it's also less fun.
The point was that you would get reduced gcd and cost only if you are targeting someone below 25%, this would add a very interesting mechanic, both in aoe and st, but you would not get the buff even if enemies around you were at 25 % if you do not target them, otherwise ofc it would be broken op in add fights, basically it's like necro exe, but instead of crit you get a faster rotation.
We already have things like reverse slice, they don't magically apply the execute if you has someone around you that is below 50 % as long as you attack a target that is above that threshold, this would be the same principle.
I can see why it would be not as easy to implement, but honestly, it would definitely be much more interesting.
I have yet to describe a the use of an execute as fun, but each to their own. Further, speeding up the GCD during execute would push low end dps even lower.
Your comparison of reverse slice seems out of place. Your idea would increase the full max damage of a skill on all targets. Reverse slice only does the full damage to the target it hits. The spash damage is not comparable to what we have been saying here when multiple targets are in play.
In other words, your damage could take the low health of an add on Rahhkat and let us increase damage to Rakkhat itself. That seems very, very wrong.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Executes are supposed to increase your effectiveness against enemies below a certain threshold. Reducing the GCD doesn't work for an execute, because it would effect everything as long as the Dragon Knight was fighting an enemy in execute range. A better execute would be to increase the amount of damage DoTs do within the threshold. They could also increase the damage of all attacks by X% for each negative effect on an enemy, with a maximum of Y%, under 25%. Both of those would complement what the Dragon Knight is, and fit within this game's systems.
Good point, it cold be solved if the change would work only if you are targeting someone that is under 25%, afterall, necro execute would have the same exact problem, and i'm sure that zos already thought of this.
The problem i have with the damage increases like what you suggested there, is that they don;t change the gameplay in any way, it's not really any fun, you just do the same at a higher damage, but with reduced gcd, basically haste, you do your rotation faster which is noticeable.
For your suggestion in the OP it would not be appropriate that the GCD be sped up when targeting someone under 25% health if there are other targets with higher health being hit by the skills. Fiery Breath and it's morphs are great examples of why this would be a problem
With the Necromaner passive Death Knell that increases critical strike chance against targets below a certain health it does not have the same issue as it only affects damage hitting the target that meets the specification.
His suggestion of a passive that would increase the damage to low health targets probably has a greater chance of happening. It lacks the pitfalls that have been made clear in this thread including the possibility new systems would have to be added to compensate.
Things like this are why posting ideas is great. The critical review of the idea helps iron out issues and bring possible ideas to light, regardless if it is welcome or not.
I agree with you on one thing, it does have a greater chance to happen purely for the fact that it's easier to implement, but it's also less fun.
The point was that you would get reduced gcd and cost only if you are targeting someone below 25%, this would add a very interesting mechanic, both in aoe and st, but you would not get the buff even if enemies around you were at 25 % if you do not target them, otherwise ofc it would be broken op in add fights, basically it's like necro exe, but instead of crit you get a faster rotation.
We already have things like reverse slice, they don't magically apply the execute if you has someone around you that is below 50 % as long as you attack a target that is above that threshold, this would be the same principle.
I can see why it would be not as easy to implement, but honestly, it would definitely be much more interesting.
I don't think you fully understand what this would do to combat. Speeding up the GCD would be utterly broken. Just because something is fun doesn't mean it belongs in the game.
So, there are a few things that come to mind, mainly aoe dots like blockade of fire, the main problem i see is that if you cast it on someone that is below 25 % in a aoe situation you will do way more aoe damage than anyone else, there are a few ways to circumvent this that come to mind right now.
1: aoe dots gcd is reduced during execute, but you don't tick faster, this would be the easiest solution
2: they do tick faster, but only on the target you specifically used it on, this would be much harder to implement and they probably will not.
For direct damage aoe abilities like steel tornado, you either don;t apply the changes to gcd, or you apply them, and give players another layer of complexity when deciding specifically which enemy to target, but with the changes to steel tornado, that supposedly we would have in elsweyr, i can;t really see this being op, even if the changes apply.
Number crunching is the least problematic, because you just have to test, there is no complexity, just finding the right number, like every other ability in the game.
It's not that hard to see the possible problems this could bring, but the fact is that there are always ways around it to make in not as strong or stronger as you need, your point could be applied to basically anything when it comes to balance to be honest.
I don;t think you fully understand what "insert name" could do to the game, you could kill people or npcs much faster if it's not balanced, yes, i know right, badly balanced skills passives etc, could be broken op, who knew....
So you don't.
This wouldn't just effect damage. This effects everything. You would get more actions per minute, which would effect your healing, ability to CC, ability to apply continuous pressure. This would change the entire flow of combat for one class. Nothing else in the game has this large of an impact.
Maybe i should have been more precise on that, i was talking about damage abilities specifically to be honest because that's what i usually play with.
I know you were. That doesn't change anything I just typed. Like I said you fundamentally don't understand what this would do.
Good point.
Idk, iv'e already talked about what you said in that post on how to circumvent that.0 -
Ajax_22✭✭✭✭✭Executes are supposed to increase your effectiveness against enemies below a certain threshold. Reducing the GCD doesn't work for an execute, because it would effect everything as long as the Dragon Knight was fighting an enemy in execute range. A better execute would be to increase the amount of damage DoTs do within the threshold. They could also increase the damage of all attacks by X% for each negative effect on an enemy, with a maximum of Y%, under 25%. Both of those would complement what the Dragon Knight is, and fit within this game's systems.
Good point, it cold be solved if the change would work only if you are targeting someone that is under 25%, afterall, necro execute would have the same exact problem, and i'm sure that zos already thought of this.
The problem i have with the damage increases like what you suggested there, is that they don;t change the gameplay in any way, it's not really any fun, you just do the same at a higher damage, but with reduced gcd, basically haste, you do your rotation faster which is noticeable.
For your suggestion in the OP it would not be appropriate that the GCD be sped up when targeting someone under 25% health if there are other targets with higher health being hit by the skills. Fiery Breath and it's morphs are great examples of why this would be a problem
With the Necromaner passive Death Knell that increases critical strike chance against targets below a certain health it does not have the same issue as it only affects damage hitting the target that meets the specification.
His suggestion of a passive that would increase the damage to low health targets probably has a greater chance of happening. It lacks the pitfalls that have been made clear in this thread including the possibility new systems would have to be added to compensate.
Things like this are why posting ideas is great. The critical review of the idea helps iron out issues and bring possible ideas to light, regardless if it is welcome or not.
I agree with you on one thing, it does have a greater chance to happen purely for the fact that it's easier to implement, but it's also less fun.
The point was that you would get reduced gcd and cost only if you are targeting someone below 25%, this would add a very interesting mechanic, both in aoe and st, but you would not get the buff even if enemies around you were at 25 % if you do not target them, otherwise ofc it would be broken op in add fights, basically it's like necro exe, but instead of crit you get a faster rotation.
We already have things like reverse slice, they don't magically apply the execute if you has someone around you that is below 50 % as long as you attack a target that is above that threshold, this would be the same principle.
I can see why it would be not as easy to implement, but honestly, it would definitely be much more interesting.
I don't think you fully understand what this would do to combat. Speeding up the GCD would be utterly broken. Just because something is fun doesn't mean it belongs in the game.
So, there are a few things that come to mind, mainly aoe dots like blockade of fire, the main problem i see is that if you cast it on someone that is below 25 % in a aoe situation you will do way more aoe damage than anyone else, there are a few ways to circumvent this that come to mind right now.
1: aoe dots gcd is reduced during execute, but you don't tick faster, this would be the easiest solution
2: they do tick faster, but only on the target you specifically used it on, this would be much harder to implement and they probably will not.
For direct damage aoe abilities like steel tornado, you either don;t apply the changes to gcd, or you apply them, and give players another layer of complexity when deciding specifically which enemy to target, but with the changes to steel tornado, that supposedly we would have in elsweyr, i can;t really see this being op, even if the changes apply.
Number crunching is the least problematic, because you just have to test, there is no complexity, just finding the right number, like every other ability in the game.
It's not that hard to see the possible problems this could bring, but the fact is that there are always ways around it to make in not as strong or stronger as you need, your point could be applied to basically anything when it comes to balance to be honest.
I don;t think you fully understand what "insert name" could do to the game, you could kill people or npcs much faster if it's not balanced, yes, i know right, badly balanced skills passives etc, could be broken op, who knew....
So you don't.
This wouldn't just effect damage. This effects everything. You would get more actions per minute, which would effect your healing, ability to CC, ability to apply continuous pressure. This would change the entire flow of combat for one class. Nothing else in the game has this large of an impact.
Maybe i should have been more precise on that, i was talking about damage abilities specifically to be honest because that's what i usually play with.
I know you were. That doesn't change anything I just typed. Like I said you fundamentally don't understand what this would do.
Good point.
Idk, iv'e already talked about what you said in that post on how to circumvent that.
You cannot circumvent the fact that you would get more actions per minute, which would effect every single player action.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Executes are supposed to increase your effectiveness against enemies below a certain threshold. Reducing the GCD doesn't work for an execute, because it would effect everything as long as the Dragon Knight was fighting an enemy in execute range. A better execute would be to increase the amount of damage DoTs do within the threshold. They could also increase the damage of all attacks by X% for each negative effect on an enemy, with a maximum of Y%, under 25%. Both of those would complement what the Dragon Knight is, and fit within this game's systems.
Good point, it cold be solved if the change would work only if you are targeting someone that is under 25%, afterall, necro execute would have the same exact problem, and i'm sure that zos already thought of this.
The problem i have with the damage increases like what you suggested there, is that they don;t change the gameplay in any way, it's not really any fun, you just do the same at a higher damage, but with reduced gcd, basically haste, you do your rotation faster which is noticeable.
For your suggestion in the OP it would not be appropriate that the GCD be sped up when targeting someone under 25% health if there are other targets with higher health being hit by the skills. Fiery Breath and it's morphs are great examples of why this would be a problem
With the Necromaner passive Death Knell that increases critical strike chance against targets below a certain health it does not have the same issue as it only affects damage hitting the target that meets the specification.
His suggestion of a passive that would increase the damage to low health targets probably has a greater chance of happening. It lacks the pitfalls that have been made clear in this thread including the possibility new systems would have to be added to compensate.
Things like this are why posting ideas is great. The critical review of the idea helps iron out issues and bring possible ideas to light, regardless if it is welcome or not.
I agree with you on one thing, it does have a greater chance to happen purely for the fact that it's easier to implement, but it's also less fun.
The point was that you would get reduced gcd and cost only if you are targeting someone below 25%, this would add a very interesting mechanic, both in aoe and st, but you would not get the buff even if enemies around you were at 25 % if you do not target them, otherwise ofc it would be broken op in add fights, basically it's like necro exe, but instead of crit you get a faster rotation.
We already have things like reverse slice, they don't magically apply the execute if you has someone around you that is below 50 % as long as you attack a target that is above that threshold, this would be the same principle.
I can see why it would be not as easy to implement, but honestly, it would definitely be much more interesting.
I don't think you fully understand what this would do to combat. Speeding up the GCD would be utterly broken. Just because something is fun doesn't mean it belongs in the game.
So, there are a few things that come to mind, mainly aoe dots like blockade of fire, the main problem i see is that if you cast it on someone that is below 25 % in a aoe situation you will do way more aoe damage than anyone else, there are a few ways to circumvent this that come to mind right now.
1: aoe dots gcd is reduced during execute, but you don't tick faster, this would be the easiest solution
2: they do tick faster, but only on the target you specifically used it on, this would be much harder to implement and they probably will not.
For direct damage aoe abilities like steel tornado, you either don;t apply the changes to gcd, or you apply them, and give players another layer of complexity when deciding specifically which enemy to target, but with the changes to steel tornado, that supposedly we would have in elsweyr, i can;t really see this being op, even if the changes apply.
Number crunching is the least problematic, because you just have to test, there is no complexity, just finding the right number, like every other ability in the game.
It's not that hard to see the possible problems this could bring, but the fact is that there are always ways around it to make in not as strong or stronger as you need, your point could be applied to basically anything when it comes to balance to be honest.
I don;t think you fully understand what "insert name" could do to the game, you could kill people or npcs much faster if it's not balanced, yes, i know right, badly balanced skills passives etc, could be broken op, who knew....
So you don't.
This wouldn't just effect damage. This effects everything. You would get more actions per minute, which would effect your healing, ability to CC, ability to apply continuous pressure. This would change the entire flow of combat for one class. Nothing else in the game has this large of an impact.
Maybe i should have been more precise on that, i was talking about damage abilities specifically to be honest because that's what i usually play with.
I know you were. That doesn't change anything I just typed. Like I said you fundamentally don't understand what this would do.
Good point.
Idk, iv'e already talked about what you said in that post on how to circumvent that.
You cannot circumvent the fact that you would get more actions per minute, which would effect every single player action.
Yes, but that's the whole point of it, more action per minute, that's the desired result.
It's not something to circumvent.Edited by JinMori on April 9, 2019 5:36PM0 -
Ajax_22✭✭✭✭✭Executes are supposed to increase your effectiveness against enemies below a certain threshold. Reducing the GCD doesn't work for an execute, because it would effect everything as long as the Dragon Knight was fighting an enemy in execute range. A better execute would be to increase the amount of damage DoTs do within the threshold. They could also increase the damage of all attacks by X% for each negative effect on an enemy, with a maximum of Y%, under 25%. Both of those would complement what the Dragon Knight is, and fit within this game's systems.
Good point, it cold be solved if the change would work only if you are targeting someone that is under 25%, afterall, necro execute would have the same exact problem, and i'm sure that zos already thought of this.
The problem i have with the damage increases like what you suggested there, is that they don;t change the gameplay in any way, it's not really any fun, you just do the same at a higher damage, but with reduced gcd, basically haste, you do your rotation faster which is noticeable.
For your suggestion in the OP it would not be appropriate that the GCD be sped up when targeting someone under 25% health if there are other targets with higher health being hit by the skills. Fiery Breath and it's morphs are great examples of why this would be a problem
With the Necromaner passive Death Knell that increases critical strike chance against targets below a certain health it does not have the same issue as it only affects damage hitting the target that meets the specification.
His suggestion of a passive that would increase the damage to low health targets probably has a greater chance of happening. It lacks the pitfalls that have been made clear in this thread including the possibility new systems would have to be added to compensate.
Things like this are why posting ideas is great. The critical review of the idea helps iron out issues and bring possible ideas to light, regardless if it is welcome or not.
I agree with you on one thing, it does have a greater chance to happen purely for the fact that it's easier to implement, but it's also less fun.
The point was that you would get reduced gcd and cost only if you are targeting someone below 25%, this would add a very interesting mechanic, both in aoe and st, but you would not get the buff even if enemies around you were at 25 % if you do not target them, otherwise ofc it would be broken op in add fights, basically it's like necro exe, but instead of crit you get a faster rotation.
We already have things like reverse slice, they don't magically apply the execute if you has someone around you that is below 50 % as long as you attack a target that is above that threshold, this would be the same principle.
I can see why it would be not as easy to implement, but honestly, it would definitely be much more interesting.
I don't think you fully understand what this would do to combat. Speeding up the GCD would be utterly broken. Just because something is fun doesn't mean it belongs in the game.
So, there are a few things that come to mind, mainly aoe dots like blockade of fire, the main problem i see is that if you cast it on someone that is below 25 % in a aoe situation you will do way more aoe damage than anyone else, there are a few ways to circumvent this that come to mind right now.
1: aoe dots gcd is reduced during execute, but you don't tick faster, this would be the easiest solution
2: they do tick faster, but only on the target you specifically used it on, this would be much harder to implement and they probably will not.
For direct damage aoe abilities like steel tornado, you either don;t apply the changes to gcd, or you apply them, and give players another layer of complexity when deciding specifically which enemy to target, but with the changes to steel tornado, that supposedly we would have in elsweyr, i can;t really see this being op, even if the changes apply.
Number crunching is the least problematic, because you just have to test, there is no complexity, just finding the right number, like every other ability in the game.
It's not that hard to see the possible problems this could bring, but the fact is that there are always ways around it to make in not as strong or stronger as you need, your point could be applied to basically anything when it comes to balance to be honest.
I don;t think you fully understand what "insert name" could do to the game, you could kill people or npcs much faster if it's not balanced, yes, i know right, badly balanced skills passives etc, could be broken op, who knew....
So you don't.
This wouldn't just effect damage. This effects everything. You would get more actions per minute, which would effect your healing, ability to CC, ability to apply continuous pressure. This would change the entire flow of combat for one class. Nothing else in the game has this large of an impact.
Maybe i should have been more precise on that, i was talking about damage abilities specifically to be honest because that's what i usually play with.
I know you were. That doesn't change anything I just typed. Like I said you fundamentally don't understand what this would do.
Good point.
Idk, iv'e already talked about what you said in that post on how to circumvent that.
You cannot circumvent the fact that you would get more actions per minute, which would effect every single player action.
Yes, but that's the whole point of it, more action per minute, that's the desired result.
It's not something to circumvent.Executes are supposed to increase your effectiveness against enemies below a certain threshold. Reducing the GCD doesn't work for an execute, because it would effect everything as long as the Dragon Knight was fighting an enemy in execute range. A better execute would be to increase the amount of damage DoTs do within the threshold. They could also increase the damage of all attacks by X% for each negative effect on an enemy, with a maximum of Y%, under 25%. Both of those would complement what the Dragon Knight is, and fit within this game's systems.
Good point, it cold be solved if the change would work only if you are targeting someone that is under 25%, afterall, necro execute would have the same exact problem, and i'm sure that zos already thought of this.
The problem i have with the damage increases like what you suggested there, is that they don;t change the gameplay in any way, it's not really any fun, you just do the same at a higher damage, but with reduced gcd, basically haste, you do your rotation faster which is noticeable.
For your suggestion in the OP it would not be appropriate that the GCD be sped up when targeting someone under 25% health if there are other targets with higher health being hit by the skills. Fiery Breath and it's morphs are great examples of why this would be a problem
With the Necromaner passive Death Knell that increases critical strike chance against targets below a certain health it does not have the same issue as it only affects damage hitting the target that meets the specification.
His suggestion of a passive that would increase the damage to low health targets probably has a greater chance of happening. It lacks the pitfalls that have been made clear in this thread including the possibility new systems would have to be added to compensate.
Things like this are why posting ideas is great. The critical review of the idea helps iron out issues and bring possible ideas to light, regardless if it is welcome or not.
I agree with you on one thing, it does have a greater chance to happen purely for the fact that it's easier to implement, but it's also less fun.
The point was that you would get reduced gcd and cost only if you are targeting someone below 25%, this would add a very interesting mechanic, both in aoe and st, but you would not get the buff even if enemies around you were at 25 % if you do not target them, otherwise ofc it would be broken op in add fights, basically it's like necro exe, but instead of crit you get a faster rotation.
We already have things like reverse slice, they don't magically apply the execute if you has someone around you that is below 50 % as long as you attack a target that is above that threshold, this would be the same principle.
I can see why it would be not as easy to implement, but honestly, it would definitely be much more interesting.
I don't think you fully understand what this would do to combat. Speeding up the GCD would be utterly broken. Just because something is fun doesn't mean it belongs in the game.
So, there are a few things that come to mind, mainly aoe dots like blockade of fire, the main problem i see is that if you cast it on someone that is below 25 % in a aoe situation you will do way more aoe damage than anyone else, there are a few ways to circumvent this that come to mind right now.
1: aoe dots gcd is reduced during execute, but you don't tick faster, this would be the easiest solution
2: they do tick faster, but only on the target you specifically used it on, this would be much harder to implement and they probably will not.
For direct damage aoe abilities like steel tornado, you either don;t apply the changes to gcd, or you apply them, and give players another layer of complexity when deciding specifically which enemy to target, but with the changes to steel tornado, that supposedly we would have in elsweyr, i can;t really see this being op, even if the changes apply.
Number crunching is the least problematic, because you just have to test, there is no complexity, just finding the right number, like every other ability in the game.
It's not that hard to see the possible problems this could bring, but the fact is that there are always ways around it to make in not as strong or stronger as you need, your point could be applied to basically anything when it comes to balance to be honest.
I don;t think you fully understand what "insert name" could do to the game, you could kill people or npcs much faster if it's not balanced, yes, i know right, badly balanced skills passives etc, could be broken op, who knew....
So you don't.
This wouldn't just effect damage. This effects everything. You would get more actions per minute, which would effect your healing, ability to CC, ability to apply continuous pressure. This would change the entire flow of combat for one class. Nothing else in the game has this large of an impact.
0