Update 22 Combat Direction: NB Changes

twing1_

TL;DR

These are my suggested changes in attempts at balancing the nb class in accordance to the new U22 Combat Direction:

1. Veiled Strike and Blur should swap places in their respective skill trees. This would put Veiled Strike and it's morphs (surprise attack/concealed weapon) in the assassination skill tree, and Blur and its morphs (mirage/double take) in the shadow skill tree.

2. Mark Target should lose major fracture/breach, and instead apply minor vulnerability to the marked target.

3. Concealed weapon should apply major breach on the enemy.

4. Manifestation of terror should "instill enemies in fear, holding them in place" (like the new necromancer cc) and also allow multiple allies to trigger a DoT synergy.

5. Incapacitating strike should no longer stun, but at 120 ultimate should deal increased damage.

6. Dark cloak should heal 10% max health every second, not 32% health over 3 seconds.

7. Double take should grant snare removal and immunity for a short duration instead of providing major expedition.

8. Path of Darkness should be reworked into "Aura of Darkness". This would change the skill into a self-centered buff rather than a ground based AoE. It would supply a damage shield and Minor Expedition (not major) for the duration. Damage morph would damage nearby enemies when the shield takes damage, healing morph would heal self and allies when the shield takes damage.

9. Mass Hysteria should grant Minor Intellect for 10 seconds after the fear ends instead of applying minor maim on the enemies affected.

10. Ambush should stun the enemy, even if the enemy is a player.

It's clear from the "Update 22 Combat Direction" thread that stamina night blades are going to be looked at and rebalanced, as they should. Stamina NB, relative to most other classes and even to Magicka NB, have been dominant for quite some time in PvP. A large part of that is due to their combination of easy survivability (rally, vigor, free major resolve/ward) and burst-heavy skills like incapacitating strike, surprise attack, and relentless focus. Many have probably already heard that the latter is losing its minor berserk component, and the new combat direction makes it sound an awful lot like these other nb offensive skills will be taken a look at as well. So, if it's not too late, I'd like to throw out a few suggestions in efforts of balancing the class.

In these suggestions, I hope to bring the NB class (specifically stamina NB) more in line with alternative options, while at the same time maintaining their class identity as a high damage potential, all or nothing assassin type. I will also be using the notes in the Update 22 Combat Direction post as guidelines.

Problem Areas, according to U22 Combat Direction
1. Some skills are loaded with functionality, others are not. Both the damage and functionality of a particular skill must be more or less in line with with the damage and functionality of other skills. In the case of NB, this probably means skills are going to be getting nerfed because their toolkit is full of loaded skills. The supposed upcoming changes to grim focus is evidence of this.
2. Redundancy in class toolkit. If one ability already performs a function, that function should not be performed by other abilities in the same class. For NB, surprise attack granting major fracture and mark target also granting major fracture was brought up. For reference, NB has three instances of major expedition (double take, path of darkness, cripple), two instances of major fracture (surprise attack, mark target), and two instances of minor maim (summon shade, mass hysteria). I will address these in my changes.

Problems Areas in my Opinion
1. Stamina NB has too much survivability. Given the high damage capacity of the nightblade class, stamina NB's access to the burst heal from rally, the healing ticks of vigor, and the free 100% uptime on major ward/resolve (in the form of dark veil synergizing with their class spammable, surprise attack) is too much easy survivability, especially in comparison to their magicka counter parts.
2. Offensive power is not distributed equally between the offensive abilities of the NB class. Grim focus was a prime example of this, providing both the single most powerful burst ability and also the strong passive of 8% damage done (minor berserk). ZOS has supposedly already adjusted this ability, but redistribution in other areas is still necessary.

My Suggestions

1. Veiled Strike and Blur should swap places in their respective skill trees. This would put Veiled Strike and it's morphs (surprise attack/concealed weapon) in the assassination skill tree, and Blur and its morphs (mirage/double take) in the shadow skill tree

Reasoning:

This is priority number one. The shadow passive, shadow barrier, grants 6 seconds of major resolve and ward upon use of a shadow ability. As it currently stands, surprise attack is an offensively loaded ability (strong burst spammable, also grants major fracture) and, as a shadow ability, it also grants the user major ward and resolve. It doesn't make sense for an ability that is so offensively stacked to also be the class source of major ward/resolve. In the case of stamina nb (which uses it as a spammable), this guarantees 100% uptime of major ward/resolve, free of cost. Switching it over to the assassination tree would make it a lot harder for stamina nb to achieve this by requiring them to cast a magicka ability every 6 seconds. It makes even less sense that this offensive ability is found on the tank skill tree, while the defensive ability, Blur, is found on the damage dealer skill tree. The switch needs to happen.

2. Mark Target should lose major fracture/breach, and instead apply minor vulnerability to the marked target.

Reasoning:

The removal of fracture is necessary on either mark target or surprise attack. Given my defensive nerf to surprise attack, I opted to remove fracture from Mark. Putting minor vulnerability in its place allows the ability to keep its current function without the redundancy.

3. Concealed weapon should apply major breach on the enemy.

Reasoning:

With the removal of major breach on mark target comes an opportunity to put major breach on concealed weapon to better match its stamina counterpart, surprise attack. Magicka NB are falling behind their stamina counterparts, and a large part of that is the magicka spammable being inferior to the stamina one. This change would remedy that. It would also fall nicely in line with abilities of other classes (like warden beetles) in which the magicka morph grants breach and the stamina morph grants fracture.

4. Manifestation of terror should "instill enemies in fear, holding them in place" (like the new necromancer cc) and also allow multiple allies to trigger a DoT synergy.

Reasoning:

Mass hysteria does everything manifestation of terror does, but is also easier to use. Introducing the inconvenience of an arm time to the fear traps should be balanced by providing increased utility relative to the instant cast of mass hysteria. Giving it both a hard cc and a group synergy gives the class access to two things it is currently lacking, and greatly improves the viability of NB PvE tanks.

5. Incapacitating strike should no longer stun, but at 120 ultimate should deal increased damage.

Reasoning:

Incapacitating strike is stacked. It not only provides great burst (through direct damage and also increased damage for a period of time), but it also provides major defile and on top of that also a crowd control. Something has to go. Given that nb already have access to a very strong cc in mass hysteria, I felt the best option was to remove the stun. In compensation, it will maintain its secondary effect criteria: if cast above 120 ultimate, the damage is increased. This should help balance soul harvest against incapacitating strike too, as magicka nb often run incap over the magicka version specifically for the crowd control.

6. Dark cloak should heal 10% max health every second for 3 seconds, not 32% max health over 3 seconds.

Reasoning:

This is admittedly more of an annoyance to me than anything else, but right now putting points into the passive skill dark veil is actually nerfing dark cloak. Dark veil increases the duration of shadow abilities by 15%. In the case of dark cloak, this means it takes 15% longer to heal 32% of your max health when you put points into it, making it quite counter productive. Letting dark cloak heal a % of health per tick allows it to be scaled positively with dark veil.

7. Double take should grant snare removal and immunity for a short duration instead of providing major expedition.

Reasoning:

Major expedition is already accessible through cripple and its morphs, so it is redundant on double take. The addition of snare removal and immunity in its place gives magicka nb access to it, bringing them closer on par to their stamina counterparts who have access to snare removal and immunity through shuffle.

8. Path of Darkness should be reworked into "Aura of Darkness". This would change the skill into a self-centered buff rather than a ground based AoE. It would supply a damage shield that scales off of health (like most other class shields) and Minor Expedition (not major) for the duration. Damage morph would damage nearby enemies when the shield takes damage, healing morph would heal self and allies when the shield takes damage. This is what the reworked skill would look like:

Aura of Darkness
-Grants a damage shield that absorbs [x] damage over 6 seconds. Grants minor expedition for the duration.

Twisted Aura
-Grants a damage shield that absorbs [x] damage over 6 seconds. Grants minor expedition for the duration.
-When the shield takes damage, deal [y] magic damage to nearby enemies.

Refreshing Aura
-Grants a damage shield that absorbs [x] damage over 6 seconds. Grants minor expedition for the duration.
-When the shield takes damage, heal yourself and nearby allies for [y].

Reasoning:

This skill needs a rework. The base skill provides a mobility bonus to the user and allies, but only while standing in a very narrow AoE. Buffing mobility while at the same time restricting that buff to a very small area is counterproductive. Allowing the ability to be self-centered allows the boon to mobility to be used to its fullest potential. Since Major Expedition is already being granted by cripple, it would be redundant on this ability. Therefore this is nerfed down to minor expedition, but a damage shield is also added in compensation. Having the shield scale off of health complements NB class passives very nicely because they already get a passive bonus to health for slotting shadow skills. In PvP, magicka NB survivability needs a boost, and this would help them greatly in this regard. The removal of twisted path as a ground based DoT will undoubtedly hurt PvE magicka NB DPS numbers, but right now (ignoring warden bow/bow spider synergy builds) the trial meta is to cram as many magicka NB into damage dealing roles as possible, because they are pulling the highest DPS numbers. This change would help bring them down just enough to be more in line with the other classes.

9. Mass Hysteria should grant Minor Intellect for 10 seconds after the fear ends instead of applying minor maim on the enemies affected.

Reasoning:

Minor maim is already applied by summon shade and it's morphs, so it would be redundant on this ability. Having the skill provide minor intellect for the caster instead provides a small bonus to magicka regeneration to help recover the cost of the ability.

10. Ambush should stun the enemy, even if the enemy is another player.

Reasoning:

ZOS used ambush as an example of an ability in the NB toolkit that is lacking functionality. This likely means that they will want to redistribute functionality from other skills onto this one. With the removal of the crowd control from incapacitating strike, a door is opened to place the stun here. It's also a logical addition because the skill already stuns enemies that aren't player controlled.

Conclusion
By emphasizing the NB's offensive capabilities (though not too extremely) and taking away some of its survivability in stamina builds, I feel these changes would bring it better in line with most of the other classes. These changes would also better balance mag nb against the dominating stam nb, without drastically altering either variant. Obviously, these changes are very unofficial, but I hope they are given serious consideration.

Vapirko

The issue is that ZOS has allowed NB particularly stamina NB to retain its identity while reducing most other classes to the same basic setups. And now the only way to balance stamblade is to do the same, unfortunately. So it would actually have to be the opposite. Cloak should be less accessible but stamblades should have better survivability outside of cloak while reducing their single target damage.

VaxtinTheWolf

I am hoping that Nightblade's fear does mimic the Necromancer's Totem fear effect. I've also been an advocate for making it so they don't run away like cats and just cower in place like one instead, which would have been oh so great for a Nightblade Tank's CC.

...And here comes the necromancer to boast about their Fear implementation. Yes, I'm a tad bitter about that. It's one of the only things I would have liked changed to be if I had any influence.

Varana

twing1_ wrote: »

-Redundancy in class toolkit. If one ability already performs a function, that function should not be performed by other abilities in the same class. For NB, surprise attack granting major fracture and mark target also granting major fracture was brought up.

I still don't understand this argument.
Those are two very different skills, used by different builds. The overlap between players using Surprise Attack and Mark Target is rather low, I assume. One is a stamina morph, the other a magicka ability. It's not a redundancy, it's supplying the two different basic builds with a tool to apply this debuff.

twing1_

Varana wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

-Redundancy in class toolkit. If one ability already performs a function, that function should not be performed by other abilities in the same class. For NB, surprise attack granting major fracture and mark target also granting major fracture was brought up.

I still don't understand this argument.
Those are two very different skills, used by different builds. The overlap between players using Surprise Attack and Mark Target is rather low, I assume. One is a stamina morph, the other a magicka ability. It's not a redundancy, it's supplying the two different basic builds with a tool to apply this debuff.

My guess is that Mark target was being under utilized because people were using surprise attack for major fracture, rendering mark target redundant.

Knowing ZOS, I fully expect them to remove major fracture from surprise attack and let mark target keep its armor debuff, but in this post I'm hoping to show that there are other directions they can take the class, while still resolving the redundancy and functionality issues.

Varana

Then it may be a misunderstanding of the purpose of your post - to me, it sounded as if that were also your argument, or that you fundamentally agreed with it. If it's just a "this is what ZOS will do, how could they salvage this?" post - okay, whatever.

twing1_

Varana wrote: »

Then it may be a misunderstanding of the purpose of your post - to me, it sounded as if that were also your argument, or that you fundamentally agreed with it. If it's just a "this is what ZOS will do, how could they salvage this?" post - okay, whatever.

Let me clarify: It doesn't matter whether or not I agree with it because that is the direction ZOS has stated they are heading.

For the record, I do agree though. I don't think two abilities should offer the same buff/debuff within any particular class. There are just so many different functions in the game, I would rather have every skill in a class toolkit bring something new to the table.

Take for instance mark target and surprise attack. Right now, I feel obligated to slot either one or the other, because I don't need two instances of major fracture. I understand that mark target also provides additional functionality that surprise attack does not, but these functions aren't as important to me as the major fracture, so I choose to slot surprise attack instead. If Mark target, however, provided a buff I couldn't get from another skill (like minor berserk after it is removed from grim focus), I would find room on my bars to slot it.

But it is a salvage post. Given their history of sweeping nerfs, I fully expect ZOS to gut the NB class. I'm trying to steer them in a better direction, that admittedly does nerf NBs quite a bit, but not as much as I am expecting ZOS to nerf them.

Varana

Hmm. I've never had the urge to slot both these skills, so the thought "I'd like to have both SA and MT but that would duplicate Fracture so I guess I have to leave one out" never occurred to me. Bar space is a valuable commodity, though, and having to slot a magicka skill on a stamblade just for the debuff (let's be honest, if you really need stealth detection, you'll probably use something else anyway) doesn't seem to be an efficient use of the bar slot.
That's what I meant - I don't think there was much of an overlap anyway. Yes, Mark Target is probably used not very often, but that's a sign that it was underperforming, not that magblades thought "I could use Surprise Attack to do that"...

Iskiab

Have faith, in ZoS we trust. Every class thread has people who say, ‘omg my class has been gutted’. I read that to mean every class has had ridiculously OP abilities that they’ve had to rebalance.

If everyone loses their OP stuff then everyone’s in the same boat. Since I like pvp I don’t mind since you end up with more build diversity.

In regards to magblade, it can only get better imo. I’ve come to the conclusion that every magblade damage ability sucks except impale because of reflections. If we keep shadowy it can’t get worse.

I also think multiple sources of major fracture is fine. There’s limited bar space so you sorta need abilities that do multiple things.

twing1_

Varana wrote: »

Hmm. I've never had the urge to slot both these skills, so the thought "I'd like to have both SA and MT but that would duplicate Fracture so I guess I have to leave one out" never occurred to me. Bar space is a valuable commodity, though, and having to slot a magicka skill on a stamblade just for the debuff (let's be honest, if you really need stealth detection, you'll probably use something else anyway) doesn't seem to be an efficient use of the bar slot.
That's what I meant - I don't think there was much of an overlap anyway. Yes, Mark Target is probably used not very often, but that's a sign that it was underperforming, not that magblades thought "I could use Surprise Attack to do that"...

If mark target provided fracture but surprise attack didn't, would you be more inclined to slot mark target?

I think this is where the redundancy comes into play. Mark target is devalued because surprise attack also provides the fracture debuff.

Unfortunately, the U22 combat direction makes it sound like, because of this, surprise attack will lose its fracture. This post is in efforts to provide an alternative approach that accomplishes the same goals outlined in U22 combat direction.

Iskiab

twing1_ wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

Hmm. I've never had the urge to slot both these skills, so the thought "I'd like to have both SA and MT but that would duplicate Fracture so I guess I have to leave one out" never occurred to me. Bar space is a valuable commodity, though, and having to slot a magicka skill on a stamblade just for the debuff (let's be honest, if you really need stealth detection, you'll probably use something else anyway) doesn't seem to be an efficient use of the bar slot.
That's what I meant - I don't think there was much of an overlap anyway. Yes, Mark Target is probably used not very often, but that's a sign that it was underperforming, not that magblades thought "I could use Surprise Attack to do that"...

If mark target provided fracture but surprise attack didn't, would you be more inclined to slot mark target?

I think this is where the redundancy comes into play. Mark target is devalued because surprise attack also provides the fracture debuff.

Unfortunately, the U22 combat direction makes it sound like, because of this, surprise attack will lose its fracture. This post is in efforts to provide an alternative approach that accomplishes the same goals outlined in U22 combat direction.

People don’t use mark target because of limited bar space, I don’t think it has to do with major fracture. Concealed is required for the stun anyways, otherwise the psijiic ability that heals is better.

twing1_

Iskiab wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

Hmm. I've never had the urge to slot both these skills, so the thought "I'd like to have both SA and MT but that would duplicate Fracture so I guess I have to leave one out" never occurred to me. Bar space is a valuable commodity, though, and having to slot a magicka skill on a stamblade just for the debuff (let's be honest, if you really need stealth detection, you'll probably use something else anyway) doesn't seem to be an efficient use of the bar slot.
That's what I meant - I don't think there was much of an overlap anyway. Yes, Mark Target is probably used not very often, but that's a sign that it was underperforming, not that magblades thought "I could use Surprise Attack to do that"...

If mark target provided fracture but surprise attack didn't, would you be more inclined to slot mark target?

I think this is where the redundancy comes into play. Mark target is devalued because surprise attack also provides the fracture debuff.

Unfortunately, the U22 combat direction makes it sound like, because of this, surprise attack will lose its fracture. This post is in efforts to provide an alternative approach that accomplishes the same goals outlined in U22 combat direction.

People don’t use mark target because of limited bar space, I don’t think it has to do with major fracture. Concealed is required for the stun anyways, otherwise the psijiic ability that heals is better.

Yes, mark target is often the odd man out because of limited bar space. But bar space is only so limited because there are so many other skills in an nb's arsenal that provide a greater function than it. Which is another thing that ZOS has stated they will try to address in U22 combat direction: functionality not being distributed equally between class abilities.

Given ZOS's track record of hard nerfs, they will likely remove fracture from surprise attack to boost the relative value of other skills.

In this rebalance, I wanted to display that instead of nerfing popular abilities to the level of under-used skills, they could alternatively boost the relative value of the underused skills.

That being said, I do agree that surprise attack is too strong of a skill, offering great burst for a spammable, a strong debuff, and also free access to major resolve/ward. How I've chosen to bring it down a level is by nerfing its defensive capabilities, by moving it out of the shadow tree so it does not proc major ward/resolve. It doesn't make sense to me that an offensive skill should provide such a boon to defense, and if it were to be altered at all, I'd prefer that it lost its defensive component.

The adjustment to mark target is strictly in response to surprise attack maintaining its fracture and ZOS wanting to both eliminate redundancy between class skills and provide a greater balance of functionality between skills.

olsborg

Magblade need to have blur give snare purge and immunity.

twing1_

olsborg wrote: »

Magblade need to have blur give snare purge and immunity.

That's a very good idea, and fits in nicely with this post because twisting path already grants major expedition, and it would be redundant for double take to also grant this function (according to U22 combat direction). Therefore I think the double take morph should grant snare removal and immunity in place of the major expedition it currently grants.

Added it into OP.

brandonv516

Nightblade needs some cleanup in regards to overlap of buffs:

3 sources of Major Expedition
2 sources of Minor Maim
2 sources of Major Fracture

Not sure the direction they plan on going specifically but I'd like for this to be taken into consideration.

twing1_

brandonv516 wrote: »

Nightblade needs some cleanup in regards to overlap of buffs:

3 sources of Major Expedition
2 sources of Minor Maim
2 sources of Major Fracture

Not sure the direction they plan on going specifically but I'd like for this to be taken into consideration.

Supposedly they are looking into this. In U22 combat direction, they reffered to it as "redundancy" and specifically sited surprise attack and mark target both granting major fracture.

My proposed changes address the major fracture problem and resolve one instance of major expedition redundancy, and I will update the OP later with potential solutions to cripple providing major expedition and mass hysteria applying minor maim.

Silver_Strider

twing1_ wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Nightblade needs some cleanup in regards to overlap of buffs:

3 sources of Major Expedition
2 sources of Minor Maim
2 sources of Major Fracture

Not sure the direction they plan on going specifically but I'd like for this to be taken into consideration.

Supposedly they are looking into this. In U22 combat direction, they reffered to it as "redundancy" and specifically sited surprise attack and mark target both granting major fracture.

My proposed changes address the major fracture problem and resolve one instance of major expedition redundancy, and I will update the OP later with potential solutions to cripple providing major expedition and mass hysteria applying minor maim.

Knowing ZOS, they'll remove Major Fracture from Surprise Attack since Mark provides both Fracture/Breech making it more universal by default, they'll rework Double Take to remove the Major Expedition for Minor Expedition while removing Expedition entirely from Cripple with Path remaining NB's "utility" with Major Expedition. Shade will keep Minor Maim since its meant for Tanks already, while Fear loses it.

Seems really bare bones.

twing1_

Silver_Strider wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Nightblade needs some cleanup in regards to overlap of buffs:

3 sources of Major Expedition
2 sources of Minor Maim
2 sources of Major Fracture

Not sure the direction they plan on going specifically but I'd like for this to be taken into consideration.

Supposedly they are looking into this. In U22 combat direction, they reffered to it as "redundancy" and specifically sited surprise attack and mark target both granting major fracture.

My proposed changes address the major fracture problem and resolve one instance of major expedition redundancy, and I will update the OP later with potential solutions to cripple providing major expedition and mass hysteria applying minor maim.

Knowing ZOS, they'll remove Major Fracture from Surprise Attack since Mark provides both Fracture/Breech making it more universal by default, they'll rework Double Take to remove the Major Expedition for Minor Expedition while removing Expedition entirely from Cripple with Path remaining NB's "utility" with Major Expedition. Shade will keep Minor Maim since its meant for Tanks already, while Fear loses it.

Seems really bare bones.

Yeah, I expect them to do something like that. But until they do, I'll keep dreaming.

I just updated the post to give double take snare removal and immunity instead of major expedition, I gave cripple minor expedition, and I gave mass hysteria minor intellect for 10 seconds instead of minor maim.

Iskiab

Meh, mass hysteria providing minor maim > shade. Mass hysteria is one of the best NB utility abilities, shade is just used for the port.

twing1_

Iskiab wrote: »

Meh, mass hysteria providing minor maim > shade. Mass hysteria is one of the best NB utility abilities, shade is just used for the port.

That's from a strictly PvP perspective.

In PvE, dark shade is one of the very few sources of AoE minor maim, and one of the even fewer things that NB tank has going for it.

brandonv516

twing1_ wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Meh, mass hysteria providing minor maim > shade. Mass hysteria is one of the best NB utility abilities, shade is just used for the port.

That's from a strictly PvP perspective.

In PvE, dark shade is one of the very few sources of AoE minor maim, and one of the even fewer things that NB tank has going for it.

Agree that needs to stay. The other morph could lose it though and pick up a damage buff IMO.

twing1_

brandonv516 wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Meh, mass hysteria providing minor maim > shade. Mass hysteria is one of the best NB utility abilities, shade is just used for the port.

That's from a strictly PvP perspective.

In PvE, dark shade is one of the very few sources of AoE minor maim, and one of the even fewer things that NB tank has going for it.

Agree that needs to stay. The other morph could lose it though and pick up a damage buff IMO.

Because of the mobility buff the other morph supplies (teleport to the shade's location upon recast of the ability), I think it's already performing very well and should remain unchanged.

brandonv516

twing1_ wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Meh, mass hysteria providing minor maim > shade. Mass hysteria is one of the best NB utility abilities, shade is just used for the port.

That's from a strictly PvP perspective.

In PvE, dark shade is one of the very few sources of AoE minor maim, and one of the even fewer things that NB tank has going for it.

Agree that needs to stay. The other morph could lose it though and pick up a damage buff IMO.

Because of the mobility buff the other morph supplies (teleport to the shade's location upon recast of the ability), I think it's already performing very well and should remain unchanged.

Well it is definitely not performing well under current bugged circumstances.

That being said, when discussing the redundancy of duplicate buffs, if Minor Main were to be removed from Shadow Image it would need something else to compensate.

That's why I suggested a simple buff to the damage of the Shade. Maybe provide it the ability to occasionally cast Snipe lol.

twing1_

brandonv516 wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Meh, mass hysteria providing minor maim > shade. Mass hysteria is one of the best NB utility abilities, shade is just used for the port.

That's from a strictly PvP perspective.

In PvE, dark shade is one of the very few sources of AoE minor maim, and one of the even fewer things that NB tank has going for it.

Agree that needs to stay. The other morph could lose it though and pick up a damage buff IMO.

Because of the mobility buff the other morph supplies (teleport to the shade's location upon recast of the ability), I think it's already performing very well and should remain unchanged.

Well it is definitely not performing well under current bugged circumstances.

That being said, when discussing the redundancy of duplicate buffs, if Minor Main were to be removed from Shadow Image it would need something else to compensate.

That's why I suggested a simple buff to the damage of the Shade. Maybe provide it the ability to occasionally cast Snipe lol.

Oh I see. I misunderstood. There's no way I'm advocating removal of main from summon shade or either of its morphs.

Ideally maim would be removed from hysteria and minor intellect be granted in its place.

Insco851

Squish magblades would really like to keep maim on fear.

Also removing the major expedition from cripple would be going in the wrong direction for magblades. Cripple expedition is essentially an alternate gap closer for melee blades, while also having defensive uses to escape... I mean it’s a NB after all.

idk

Are these working off what Zos has already worked up as a starting point or just your own? I do not think Zos is interested in random ideas and it is probably best for us to provide feedback on the changes they are going to propose.

Silver_Strider

Insco851 wrote: »

Squish magblades would really like to keep maim on fear.

Also removing the major expedition from cripple would be going in the wrong direction for magblades. Cripple expedition is essentially an alternate gap closer for melee blades, while also having defensive uses to escape... I mean it’s a NB after all.

It's the most likely skill to loss Major Expedition on NB though. Path was made NB's "utility" and that utility is Major Expedition, which by ZOS logic means the Major Expedition on Cripple and Blur are meaningless fluff, despite their practical implications and are most likely to be cut in the overhaul.

twing1_

idk wrote: »

Are these working off what Zos has already worked up as a starting point or just your own? I do not think Zos is interested in random ideas and it is probably best for us to provide feedback on the changes they are going to propose.

They are removing minor berserk from grim focus, and have stated that they will be rebalancing the classes to avoid "redundancy in functionality", citing surprise attack and mark target both providing major fracture as an issue. I've interpreted that to mean that the 3 instances of major expedition and 2 instances of minor maim are also issues.

But beyond that, I have not heard anything more. Everything else is my solutions to the issues they've stated they will be looking at.

idk

First, who has said? Zos specifically said if it is not coming from them do not take it as fact.

Second, you are not saying you have "heard" what the full changes to skills are. Ideas in a vacuum will always be lacking.

twing1_

idk wrote: »

First, who has said? Zos specifically said if it is not coming from them do not take it as fact.

Second, you are not saying you have "heard" what the full changes to skills are. Ideas in a vacuum will always be lacking.

ZOS has stated either here on the forums:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/466792/update-22-combat-direction#latest

Or at the elsweyr preview event:


https://www.eso-library.com/core/index.php?chapter-elsweyr-en/

About halfway down the site:

Class changes

The Nightblade is being balanced with regard to "Grim Focus". So the bonus minor frenzy (8% more damage) is completely removed. This means that this bonus can only be obtained from Wardens (Selfbuff with the wings), by Healers (Combat Prayer) or by the skill “Camouflaged Hunter” (Fighters Guild).


Beyond the info in these links, I have no further information. Everything else (the specific skill changes presented in this post) are only my personal suggestions. They are not predictions and neither are they expectations. They are simply suggestions as to how they can fix some of their stated problem areas.

Insco851

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Squish magblades would really like to keep maim on fear.

Also removing the major expedition from cripple would be going in the wrong direction for magblades. Cripple expedition is essentially an alternate gap closer for melee blades, while also having defensive uses to escape... I mean it’s a NB after all.

It's the most likely skill to loss Major Expedition on NB though. Path was made NB's "utility" and that utility is Major Expedition, which by ZOS logic means the Major Expedition on Cripple and Blur are meaningless fluff, despite their practical implications and are most likely to be cut in the overhaul.

Just seems like an overall nerf to magblade. Doesn’t affect the over performing Stam brother at all.

Roll woodelf, bow vigor dodge roll.... dudes in the next county over.

Magblade.... cripple to path to close the gap for your melee ults... joy.... and when you need to get away, you run in a straight fkn line LOL.

Bet