PVE Stam vs Mag/Melee vs Ranged

Marteene

Does anyone think that magicka builds that are confined to melee should be as strong as stamina melee? Should ranged vs melee be based on class, build, or primary stat (stam/mag)?
Ranged Bow/Bow Stam builds are now reaching the same level of damage that ranged magicka builds are putting out, with Bow/Bow StamBlades, StamSorcs, and StamDens reaching mid 50s on 6mil dummies. What do you think of this?

Marteene

I just want to see what people think since I don't have any strong feelings on the matter.

_Ahala_

Melee should be stronger as it involves more risk but ranged (mag specifically) needs viable ways to kite and a melee mag weapon line should be introduced

ccmedaddy

Absolutely. Kind of weird that ZOS seems ok with the fact that magDKs and melee magplars haven't been welcome in vet trials for years.

SoLooney

I'm fine if bow bow stam are a thing, crash the market on cornflower but then blesses thistle will be new cornflower price hmm....

We will see if zos is ok with mag being almost virtually obsolete if bow bow is a thing

FrancisCrawford

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Absolutely. Kind of weird that ZOS seems ok with the fact that magDKs and melee magplars haven't been welcome in vet trials for years.

They claim to be trying to make magplars competitive for melee damage. Wasn't that their stated reason for the latest Solar Barrage buff?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Well the simple fact is that Melee DPS is dominated by stam and ranged DPS is dominated by magic (although this new bow bow trapping webs nonsense might change all this). The practical effect of this is that melee oriented magic DPS classes (primarily magic DK) are left out in the cold when it comes to the top trial groups.

Sidebar: Melee is generally harder to play than ranged from a mechanic standpoint, so no issue whatsoever with it pulling more damage than ranged DPS.

In PVE, ultimately, the magic vs stamina debate is meaningless. The ranged vs melee distinction is really all that matters from a practical standpoint, as most content limits how many melee classes you can feasibly have in a trial. Therefore, if ZOS wants all classes to be viable for true end game, something needs to be done about specs like mag DK. They either need to have a unique buff they can bring to the table (that the tank cant also do), they need to have a way to perform damage from range to compete with the likes of mSorc, mageblade, and magplar (who are all very close right now), or their melee DPS needs buffed to be on par with the other melee builds (which just happen to be dominated by stam).

End of the day, the best groups are going to first ask the question: How many melee spots can I reasonably fit for this particular piece of content? They will then put as many as they can, and they will use whatever spec gives the most melee damage. They will then fill in with whatever does the most ranged damage. If Mag DK was the best melee damage, and a bow bow stamblade was the best ranged damage, that is what groups would run.

In a perfect world, all classes, magic and stam, would be able to pull competitive damage from both ranged and melee depending on their setup, and the various types of damage would be comparable across classes. We have a ways to go on that one.

kaithuzar

I would like to know why everyone is so “concerned” with dummy parses when “raids have mechanics” that typically keep you from standing still...

As the saying goes, if you’re dead, you’re not doing dps.

kaithuzar

As for the actual discussion, idk if I agree with the statement of “melee is more risky, therefore they get more reward”.
I think that more so applies to pvp rather than pve.

Take the last boss of sanctum for example.
Everyone stacks directly behind the boss & dps’s him while the tank faces him away.
If you have ranged classes in melee range, why would it be fair that stam melee get a damage boost?
It seems like everyone should just roll stamina if we’re giving free handouts to favorites “being special”.

ccmedaddy

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Absolutely. Kind of weird that ZOS seems ok with the fact that magDKs and melee magplars haven't been welcome in vet trials for years.

They claim to be trying to make magplars competitive for melee damage. Wasn't that their stated reason for the latest Solar Barrage buff?

Yeah I think so. Melee magplars still parse lower than rangeplars though, let alone compete with melee stam.

I dunno, I don't think this current meta will shift drastically anytime soon nor do I think this is the most pressing issue for devs to address but then I'd probably feel very differently if I only played a magDK lol.

Toc de Malsvi

In some other games the danger of mechanics is not so closely tied to the range between the player and the boss. Also teams were more rewarded for a variety of DPS than for stacking just one. I don't think ESO is a bad game by any measure, but I think they could do a lot more to improve the overall mechanics and benefits of a variety of playstyles.

Marteene

While bow/bow builds aren't well loved or played heavily Ive already seen a few crazy vAS parses where they had near perfect relequen uptimes. If relequin facilitates movement (with bows not melee weapons of course), and siroria punishes movement, isn't it reasonable to replace mag with bow/bow stambois?

Iskiab

Marteene wrote: »

While bow/bow builds aren't well loved or played heavily Ive already seen a few crazy vAS parses where they had near perfect relequen uptimes. If relequin facilitates movement (with bows not melee weapons of course), and siroria punishes movement, isn't it reasonable to replace mag with bow/bow stambois?

Try it. Just need to make sure you have one of every class. I’m sure healers will love not having to keep ele drain up.

hedna123b14_ESO

Marteene wrote: »

While bow/bow builds aren't well loved or played heavily Ive already seen a few crazy vAS parses where they had near perfect relequen uptimes. If relequin facilitates movement (with bows not melee weapons of course), and siroria punishes movement, isn't it reasonable to replace mag with bow/bow stambois?

Already meta
https://youtu.be/NQf1Fr3hjA4

AcadianPaladin

For solo PvE work, when it really counts, it is all at melee range. Sure, my bow/bow stamsorc can deliver an often fatal opening burst on a single normal foe. And she can lock down trash and mow them down with twin on the ground AoEs and bombard with impunity. But a big boss? CC is useless on bosses yet it remains critical to keep the boss in my hail + caltrops killing zone. So how does a solo player keep a big boss in their ground-based AoE? Face tanking the boss at melee range of course. So I, for one, am glad that bow/bow can deliver decent dps.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Marteene wrote: »

While bow/bow builds aren't well loved or played heavily Ive already seen a few crazy vAS parses where they had near perfect relequen uptimes. If relequin facilitates movement (with bows not melee weapons of course), and siroria punishes movement, isn't it reasonable to replace mag with bow/bow stambois?

Already meta
https://youtu.be/NQf1Fr3hjA4

I love this.