healing and mitigation

Noctus

i give u guys smthing to think about. since it seems like more and more people go for the immortal builds.

so heals and shields that we do could as a dmg number 1 shot us while the dmg that we do is crippled by mitigation (resistances. crit resistance) and other factors. thats why immortality builds stands superior even against 2 or sometimes even 3 people.

i met few days ago a sorc that used such a build. he used smthing like plaguedoctor desert rose , chudan and probably the brp restoration staff. he also allways had a clannbann out. i also think to remember he had sword and board not sure tho. im very positive about him using restoration ult alot.

a guy whos each week in the top 5 in bg rankings and myself as a very experienced bg player couldnt believe what we saw there. we only could take him down with 4 ppl focusing.

i rly dont know what to make of it.

this is by no means a nerf a class thread just taking the sorc as an example. its about mitigation and healing in general

Crixus8000

In my experience damage exceeds healing and mitigation. I play only no cp and immortal type builds don't work here, even if someone goes for an actual tank build all it takes is a few players to kill them. I run a tanky setup with currently 30k resists, 8 impen and lots of hots and I still get hit insane numbers like 10k+snipes. About a week ago a stamblade killed me insantly with a 2k light attack, 6k surprise attack, 10k incap into execute, so I just get so confused when people think healing/mitigation is too high, if that was the case I wouldn't have been smashed in a second by a damage build. Also then you have bleed builds that are everywhere dealing insane damage that completely ignores all counters, plus ridiculous proc sets like zaan that hit over 20k.

Thogard

It seems the ZOS stance on unkillable builds is that they’re OK as long as they can’t kill anyone themselves.

I call them stalemate builds. They’re wastes of time for everyone involved. The sooner people wean themselves off of those builds the better.

Sadly many people have given up on trying to improve and instead just play to survive until the zerg shows up.

Alucardo

Onslaught, bleeds, defile, profit. Nobody in no cp is going to withstand that.

Iskiab

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I run a tanky setup with currently 30k resists, 8 impen and lots of hots and I still get hit insane numbers like 10k+snipes. About a week ago a stamblade killed me insantly with a 2k light attack, 6k surprise attack, 10k incap into execute, so I just get so confused when people think healing/mitigation is too high, if that was the case I wouldn't have been smashed in a second by a damage build.

Really? When you say you have 30k resistances, do you mean you have 30k up passively or once a bunch of proc’s go off and you’ve buffed you’re at 30k? Are you a werewolf? I’m asking because last time a good ganker tried that on me I didn’t drop below 50% health.

I see some really tanky builds that take maybe 8 players to take down quickly, usually they involve blocking.

Alucardo

Iskiab wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I run a tanky setup with currently 30k resists, 8 impen and lots of hots and I still get hit insane numbers like 10k+snipes. About a week ago a stamblade killed me insantly with a 2k light attack, 6k surprise attack, 10k incap into execute, so I just get so confused when people think healing/mitigation is too high, if that was the case I wouldn't have been smashed in a second by a damage build.

Really? When you say you have 30k resistances, do you mean you have 30k up passively or once a bunch of proc’s go off and you’ve buffed you’re at 30k? Are you a werewolf? I’m asking because last time a good ganker tried that on me I didn’t drop below 50% health.

I see some really tanky builds that take maybe 8 players to take down quickly, usually they involve blocking.

tbh even with fortified brass (over capped resistances when BS procs) I was still getting nuked by gank blades, or at least taking a lot of initial damage that was hard to recover from.
5.6k crit resist did the trick though

Edit: Sorry, I meant 5.7

Crixus8000

Iskiab wrote: »

Really? When you say you have 30k resistances, do you mean you have 30k up passively or once a bunch of proc’s go off and you’ve buffed you’re at 30k? Are you a werewolf? I’m asking because last time a good ganker tried that on me I didn’t drop below 50% health.

I see some really tanky builds that take maybe 8 players to take down quickly, usually they involve blocking.

Yes passive 30k, just with hurricane up, but I make sure it's up all the time of course. I like playing with high resists to try and help defend against the huge damage in pvp, especially since I play stamsorc.

Ye builds that can block decently are certainly harder to take down, I don't really see any in no cp though as it's hard to sustain that here, I met so many when I visited vivec though lol.

Noctus

Crixus8000 wrote: »

In my experience damage exceeds healing and mitigation. I play only no cp and immortal type builds don't work here, even if someone goes for an actual tank build all it takes is a few players to kill them. I run a tanky setup with currently 30k resists, 8 impen and lots of hots and I still get hit insane numbers like 10k+snipes. About a week ago a stamblade killed me insantly with a 2k light attack, 6k surprise attack, 10k incap into execute, so I just get so confused when people think healing/mitigation is too high, if that was the case I wouldn't have been smashed in a second by a damage build. Also then you have bleed builds that are everywhere dealing insane damage that completely ignores all counters, plus ridiculous proc sets like zaan that hit over 20k.

there are people more experienced than u and my buddy who is weekly first or second place in bg rankings surely experienced it all. i myself play bg for ages. ofc its harder in no cp to pull out such builds but its possible nonetheless.

in higher mmr games end becouse of timer not kills

Crixus8000

Noctus wrote: »

there are people more experienced than u and my buddy who is weekly first or second place in bg surely experienced it all. i myself play bg for ages. ofc its harder in no cp to pull out such builds but its possible nonetheless.

in higher mmr games end becouse of timer not kills

I hardly play bgs at all, but I have played the game for around 4k hours and only pvp, and no build is so tanky that a single bleed blade can't kill it. Maybe bg's is different because I guess people focus on burst more and teamwork, where a build focused on blocking and survivability would be able to work there.

Noctus

Thogard wrote: »

It seems the ZOS stance on unkillable builds is that they’re OK as long as they can’t kill anyone themselves.

I call them stalemate builds. They’re wastes of time for everyone involved. The sooner people wean themselves off of those builds the better.

Sadly many people have given up on trying to improve and instead just play to survive until the zerg shows up.

key element is blocking and the restoration ult i suppose. i personally would have nothing against a nerf towards blocking.
im personally a tank if it comes to pve. by the way Hodor for example runs most dungeons with 3 dps and 1 tank on vet.(just shows how good u can be with mitigation and heals)

wouldnt it be youtube material to figure out the build i pointed at. i have a stamsorc max lvl but not a magsorc to try this. im also pretty positive about that u might have more experience than me on sorc.

u should include in ur build mystic guard in case ppl dont attack u anymore and healing spells for ur comrades. u will be the biggest annoyance in bg .

if u wont do it i will to proove my point someday. but not anytime soon. would be rly nice of u

Noctus

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

there are people more experienced than u and my buddy who is weekly first or second place in bg surely experienced it all. i myself play bg for ages. ofc its harder in no cp to pull out such builds but its possible nonetheless.

in higher mmr games end becouse of timer not kills

I hardly play bgs at all, but I have played the game for around 4k hours and only pvp, and no build is so tanky that a single bleed blade can't kill it. Maybe bg's is different because I guess people focus on burst more and teamwork, where a build focused on blocking and survivability would be able to work there.

there are many casuals in the game. in cyrodiil its a rarity to find people that build properly. bg will set u up against harder opponents the more u win. increasing the chance of meeting people with very good builds. play more bg it will improve you and change ur view. especially during prime time when the premade players roll in.

in cyrodiil u wont even notice good or overperforming builds becouse most people are inside zergs anyway-

Crixus8000

Noctus wrote: »

there are many casuals in the game. in cyrodiil its a rarity to find people that build properly. bg will set u up against harder opponents the more u win. increasing the chance of meeting people with very good builds. play more bg it will improve you and change ur view. especially during prime time when the premade players roll in.

If good premade players are struggling against tank type builds in bg's then what I said is correct, because tanks get melted in no cp cyrodil, it doesn't matter how much you can block when you have people stacking bleeds on you. For example stamblades are classed as bad in bg's yet they are very powerful in cyro, and a good one with the usual, master axes, sloads, viper setup will melt tanky players.

kaithuzar

I said months ago (maybe a year ago?), the damage mitigation from blocking is too high & should be lowered.
I don’t remember the actual numbers but it’s like ~60+%, should be like 50% at max.

Iskiab

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with super tanky types, BGs or cyrodiil. Without some players who can increase their TTK really high everyone would spec for burst and wear all damage sets.

I know when I get a tanky player on my team I love it. I heal and dps, and having a front line person for target blocking helps a ton. However, it’s like all specs in pvp. If you get 2 healers it sucks, get 2 tanks it sucks, get all burst players who kite at the first light attack it sucks, etc...

Tanks in pvp should be a thing. This is MMO pvp.

CatchMeTrolling

kaithuzar wrote: »

I said months ago (maybe a year ago?), the damage mitigation from blocking is too high & should be lowered.
I don’t remember the actual numbers but it’s like ~60+%, should be like 50% at max.

Blocking has already had too many nerfs and like always hurt the non tanks more than the actual tanks.

Marcus684

I’m fine with tanky builds, as long as they’re sacrificing something for it, like burst damage. I like to recharge my ultimate on them while the horde of noobs is beating uselessly on them, then throw a defile on and hard CC them on cooldown, in the hopes that some of those noobs will learn something. If not, I’ll eventually get bored and ride away. If that player finds joy in a troll tank build, who am I to say they shouldn’t be able to use it?