We need End Game Zones

Iccotak

Not every new large zone needs to be friendly for fresh Characters

For starters, it makes more sense from a narrative perspective to just start at Coldharbour.
Secondly, you are deprive opportunity for challenge by making every new zone a place beginners can start.

Now It doesn't have to be an "Adventure Zone" where essentially everything requires a group but there should be zones that are overall harder to go through and be filled with activities that require friends.
I know that doesn't exactly mesh with the "One Tamriel - Go Anywhere" but (while it has been great for the game) in some ways that has deprived the players of challenge in the open world.
This is an MMO, when you make challenging content it encourages people to be social. Yes we have Dungeons and Trials but I like having a zone that is a challenge for a group of 2-4.

It seems to me in recent days that Craglorn has made a come back, because it is actually a zone that was designed as endgame content.
I go out with groups and guilds all the time there.

Craglorn feels like the endgame zone you are supposed to go to after beating the base game.

What I'm asking for doesn't quite have to be another Craglorn, However;

Why not make a zone during every other season (year) that leans more on group content than the standard zone does? Make a zone that is truly for the Veteran Endgame population.

mayasunrising

I agree. I know that some of the devs on ESO came form DAoC, and ironically, one of the things I LOVED about that game were that there were areas that you just didn't go to until you were either end game level, or grouped up. And it made those areas mysterious, frightening, and memorable when you finally were able to go there (Stone Henge immediately comes to mind!).

I do think One Tamriel is a great idea. It allows friends to play together and everyone can experience most content even solo, but like the OP mentioned, I find myself gravitating toward Craglorn to offer me something aside from trials, vet dungeons, or PVP/BGs as an end-game player. I want dangerous mysterious areas! Scare me ZOS dern it!

Aptonoth

Hmm... yes. Only if they are solo-able though but with good gear and lots of pain,

Gythral

Carglorn

Guess you do not remember how that went..

Iccotak

Gythral wrote: »

Carglorn

Guess you do not remember how that went..

I do that's why I said don't make it 100% like how craglorn was designed, but zones that are harder
Like I said Craglorn has seen a bit of a come back within the past couple years because it is a zone that is made for end game

MattT1988

I’m all for challenging DLC zones providing it doesn’t require grouping and it is rewarded well.

Quaesivi

Gythral wrote: »

Craglorn

Guess you do not remember how that went..

It was actually fun, challenging, and how ridiculously annoying. Yet it was a fun challenge. But people whined.
I actually miss the times when zones had levels and not everything was the same everywhere.

Gythral

MattT1988 wrote: »

I’m all for challenging DLC zones providing it doesn’t require grouping and it is rewarded well.

Does not reward is far better, you what a challenge
After all the reward benefit of existing content (newer content) is the cause of all the nerfs, not CP...

or better still Dark Souls exists already

Digiman

sorta goes against the policy of go where you like adventuring style of this game. I think thats why they have raids anyway.

MattT1988

Aenthel wrote: »

Gythral wrote: »

Craglorn

Guess you do not remember how that went..

It was actually fun, challenging, and how ridiculously annoying. Yet it was a fun challenge. But people whined.
I actually miss the times when zones had levels and not everything was the same everywhere.

It was fun in ways but the required grouping for questing was a nightmare. It was just too much of a pain in the arse to find people at the same part of the quest as you.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

the pain of advancement...I guess ur a fresh player since in the beginning we had that...then every1 was qqing about lvl zones and also the low lvl zones were deserted wastelands...so 1 tamriel came and lvl scaling came...now people want casual-free areas...so do I but it wouldn't rly work...
@Gythral Craglorn in the beginning wasn't an endgame zone was a group zone and you weren't supposed to do anything solo...sure we were able cuz op builds but mostly dk/magblade then we all know how stuff ended...the place was deserted and nobody cared...
honestly adding an "end game zone/s" right now it would be pointless since there is no challenge and everyone can come in and do stuff due to lvl scaling

Quaesivi

MattT1988 wrote: »

Aenthel wrote: »

Gythral wrote: »

Craglorn

Guess you do not remember how that went..

It was actually fun, challenging, and how ridiculously annoying. Yet it was a fun challenge. But people whined.
I actually miss the times when zones had levels and not everything was the same everywhere.

It was fun in ways but the required grouping for questing was a nightmare. It was just too much of a pain in the arse to find people at the same part of the quest as you.

Oh yes I hated that it required your group to be at the exact same stage, that was a ridiculous disaster. But at least it promoted more of a group play, despite the annoyances. These days, unless you are going trials or vet dlcs, most people can even solo everything.

Iccotak

@xenowarrior92eb17_ESO
Actually I've been here since beta
I do think for the most part level scaling did the game a world of good
But I think taking the approach that anyone can go anywhere in the world and be fine hurts the game.
While that approach works for the base game I do think there should be DLC zones that are hard, not just the world bosses but the delves and quests.
I do think there should be zones that players decided they will go to when they are higher level and have more skill from experience.
Something akin to Craglorn, but not 100% that.

imo not everything in the open world map should be solo-able. Don't make it 100% group content but Encourage group play out in the world. It's an MMO

Knootewoot

All overland and quest should be harder. If I create a new character I don't distribute cp's and it makes a ton of difference. Still, most content can be done naked with light attacks.
My lvl 32 dk is naked and only uses the 2-handed swing attack with the morph he gets a shield. I even solo worldbosses on him like that. It's too easy.

TheShadowScout

Iccotak wrote: »

Now It doesn't have to be an "Adventure Zone" where essentially everything requires a group but there should be zones that are overall harder to go through and be filled with activities that require friends.

Well, its a matter of degree.

Craglorns group-based setup was too tough, people often could not find enough friends with enough time to do it, causing lots of vexation.
Imperial City on the other hand has a good "tough" balance, if not for all the gankings.

Me, I would love to see whole zones with a "public dungeon" level of difficulty, meaning geared for groups of two, but soloable by a large number of people once they get good enough...

Iccotak

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Me, I would love to see whole zones with a "public dungeon" level of difficulty, meaning geared for groups of two, but soloable by a large number of people once they get good enough...

This I can get behind

Androconium

Iccotak wrote: »

Not every new large zone needs to be friendly for fresh Characters

For starters, it makes more sense from a narrative perspective to just start at Coldharbour.
Secondly, you are deprive opportunity for challenge by making every new zone a place beginners can start.

Now It doesn't have to be an "Adventure Zone" where essentially everything requires a group but there should be zones that are overall harder to go through and be filled with activities that require friends.
I know that doesn't exactly mesh with the "One Tamriel - Go Anywhere" but (while it has been great for the game) in some ways that has deprived the players of challenge in the open world.
This is an MMO, when you make challenging content it encourages people to be social. Yes we have Dungeons and Trials but I like having a zone that is a challenge for a group of 2-4.

It seems to me in recent days that Craglorn has made a come back, because it is actually a zone that was designed as endgame content.
I go out with groups and guilds all the time there.

Craglorn feels like the endgame zone you are supposed to go to after beating the base game.

What I'm asking for doesn't quite have to be another Craglorn, However;

Why not make a zone during every other season (year) that leans more on group content than the standard zone does? Make a zone that is truly for the Veteran Endgame population.

Finished then? Just go and buy another game.
Thanks for your insight.

Ragnork

Knootewoot wrote: »

All overland and quest should be harder. If I create a new character I don't distribute cp's and it makes a ton of difference. Still, most content can be done naked with light attacks.
My lvl 32 dk is naked and only uses the 2-handed swing attack with the morph he gets a shield. I even solo worldbosses on him like that. It's too easy.

Sounds like your ready for a new game.

Nemesis7884

No we dont....end game zones are the perfect solution for developper that want to depopulate their game as fast as possible and develop content for nothing...we need the opposite - more reasons to repopulate old zones

Tasear

Nah we need more then daily fetch quest each zone offers. Story quests aren't interesting repeatable content.

Cydrolli - bounty quests for pvp just solve the potential abuse issues via well designed system

Hewsbane - race to steal item before others.

Grathwood - parkour in the trees area

Craglorn - Notice board for trials

Rift - some roleplay stages

Clockwork city - group building contest but like dominos one mistake and it all falls over

Repear March - capturing and taming wasp farm area.

@ZOS_RobGarrett please look at these gameplay design ideas.

Faulgor

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

No we dont....end game zones are the perfect solution for developper that want to depopulate as fast as possible and develop content for nothing...we need the opposite - more reasons to repopulate old zones

Which is why I'd prefer an optional higher difficulty setting for overland PvE with appropriate rewards. Something like I suggested here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/460702/the-case-for-higher-difficulty-settings-making-a-bargain

Billdor

Aptonoth wrote: »

Hmm... yes. Only if they are solo-able though but with good gear and lots of pain,

And here we have someone who is agreeing with the opinion but then disagrees with it by raising a counterpoint which COMPLETLY GOES AGAINST THE IDEA OF A END GAME ZONE.

Lord_Eomer

Agreed currently End Games becomes Trails and PVP only!

bharathitman

Most of the posts here that start with 'We need' usually means 'I need'

Not every MMO needs end game zones, they tried it with ESO and obviously it didn't work out.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

I just want more end game solo content. I don't mind the zones being scaled for everybody but it would be nice for solo players to finally have a challenge again.

Casdha

Get rid of all group checks and implement this:




Edit: where the last two unlock when you complete an alliance zone on Cadwell's quests (Silver and Gold)

Elsonso

Billdor wrote: »

Aptonoth wrote: »

Hmm... yes. Only if they are solo-able though but with good gear and lots of pain,

And here we have someone who is agreeing with the opinion but then disagrees with it by raising a counterpoint which COMPLETLY GOES AGAINST THE IDEA OF A END GAME ZONE.

Actually, the definition of an "end-game zone" that requires grouping is actually a limited definition. A zone with harder content and no assumptions based on grouping still fits the definition of an end game zone. Soloing content requires a different player skill than doing group content, and is worthy of the term "end-game".

Large tracts of zone-like land where the difficulty is worse sort of goes against One Tamriel. Tamriel is not really a place where large areas of land are extra deadly. Tamriel has been around for long enough, and people have spread out across the whole continent for a thousand years, such that deadly zones really are not going to be common. One of the things with the whole Elder Scrolls universe is that "civilization" has been around for so long that Tamriel is largely tamed. Events need to happen to make areas more deadly.

That said, an end-game updated adventure zone on an oblivion plane would be very interesting. This could be a giant arena or trial type of environment that could replace a standard two-dungeon DLC and provide a whole zone with a normal, veteran, or hard mode environment. If this was allowed to persist between logins so that characters could "park" there and not be required to maintain a group while in the area and doing activities, this could be quite attractive.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

we had that before 1 tamerial

joaaocaampos

Veteran Delves and Public Dungeons is a good start.

Dungeon Mode Toggle for Delves and Public Dungeons.

TiaFrye

Locking a zone from players who can't "git good" yet paid money to travel trough ONE TAMRIEL doesn't sound good, mate.
I mean, look at Craglorn. People going there only to meet elite merchants, farm mats and for trials these days. Most of the storyline still blocked by difficulty to a lot of players. And yes, sometimes, while being moody, we don't like to group. Grouping even with my closest friend makes my head hurt after a few moments.

idk

We had an end game zone. Craglorn and Upper Craglorn were the first two areas added to the game post launch. It was specifically designed and intended for end game. It was nerfed into oblivion because players did not want it that hard. Grouping was also removed but that is a separate story.

So if the player base did not want it then I do not see what has changed. I go for the content designed and intended to be a challenge that overall is not being nerfed, vet trials, and mostly HM. vMA is also a decent challenge. However, powercreep is still making all of this easier.

Edit: by now means am I arguing with OP. Just pointing out some history with the game that occurred before all the zone scaling began.