Magblade..please don’t ZOS

HEBREWHAMMERRR

With all of the talk regarding the minor berserk changes, I can’t help but feel hopeless. This may be premature and some sort of compensation is coming for magblade in PvP but please think about this. We are currently in an abysmal state in pvp. I RARELY see any magblades nowadays, it’s always had an extremely high skill cap and was reliant on its well timed burst in the hands of a good player to remain effective. Yes, the cloaking around perma cloak blades are annoying but they also aren’t really doing much else in regards to DPS pressure. If magblade loses minor berserk for pvp we need some sort of utility to compensate this. I’ve rolled with so many punches as a day 1 magblade. Most notably the cloak purge nerf, siphoning strikes nerf, the bow proc snare nerf, the strife healing received nerf, and evasion nerf, now removal of our minor berserk? The class is underperforming in all facets pvp, ESPECIALLY high MMR battlegrounds as told in a recent community poll. My proposal is simple and would not have an effect on pve, give us a magicka / stamina morph or cloak. The heal was a decent idea but with the siphoning nerf and now evasion virtually murdering off an entire nightblade tank archetype, a stam / mag morph for cloak seems in line. Give stam morph the current guarantee crit chance, this will remain in line with their current pvp cloak and the class is already doing well in pvp as is, for magicka PLEASE give us back the cloak purge for a much needed snare removal in this extremely snare / aoe intensive pvp meta. Again, this would have no ramifications for pvp and would give magblade back some of its class identity of survivability while accepting we are taking a hit to our damage / burst, some added survival for a light armor “assassin” is the least you could do.

Thoughts? This is my 2 cents from a day one magblade. Maybe this is wishful thinking but anyone who played during the cloak purge could vouch this would help the class immensely in the pvp environment while not tilting us over the edge by any means. One of the largest critiques of ZOS is the PvP/PvE balancing act. This is your chance to make a logical change with respect to that.

HEBREWHAMMERRR

@NyassaV @Gilliamtherogue @brandonv516 @Dottzgaming thoughts?

brandonv516

I'm not sure we will get something back that has been gone for so long (at least not in the form it was).

I believe that Stamblades would choose the magicka morph though (their crit chance is already pretty high correct?).

Magblades would not choose the stamina morph at all.

My personal hopes are for something like:

Snare removal/immunity attached to Dark Cloak (with the removal of Minor Protection) and a slight improvement to the heal (no invisibility).

and

Shadowy Disguise (invisibility) loses the guaranteed crit but with the addition of Minor Protection (with longer duration).

HEBREWHAMMERRR

brandonv516 wrote: »

I'm not sure we will get something back that has been gone for so long (at least not in the form it was).

I believe that Stamblades would choose the magicka morph though (their crit chance is already pretty high correct?).

Magblades would not choose the stamina morph at all.

My personal hopes are for something like:

Snare removal/immunity attached to Dark Cloak (with the removal of Minor Protection) and a slight improvement to the heal (no invisibility).

and

Shadowy Disguise (invisibility) loses the guaranteed crit but with the addition of Minor Protection (with longer duration).

I honestly would take either of those. Snare removal would be huge for magblade as it’s something we’re seriously lacking. Plus it adds to our class identity as a stealth assassin. Sigh...I just miss the days of cloak purge man. Lich + Julianos + willpower, old school proxy and bat bombs. The glory days haha

twing1_

The loss of minor berserk will be hardly noticeable in pvp.

For example, if your tool tip for a skill does 10k dmg (which is already on the high side), minor berserk grants you a whopping 800 extra damage. In PvP, this drops down to a gain of 400 damage because all damage is halved.

400 damage is next to nothing. It won't be saving any lives and it won't be missed.

If a skills tool tip is even lower than 10k (most are), the damage lost is even smaller.

People are blowing this nerf way out of proportion. The largest impact it has is on magblade target dummy parses. We will still be fine in pvp.

ll_Rev

twing1_ wrote: »

The loss of minor berserk will be hardly noticeable in pvp.

For example, if your tool tip for a skill does 10k dmg (which is already on the high side), minor berserk grants you a whopping 800 extra damage. In PvP, this drops down to a gain of 400 damage because all damage is halved.

400 damage is next to nothing. It won't be saving any lives and it won't be missed.

If a skills tool tip is even lower than 10k (most are), the damage lost is even smaller.

People are blowing this nerf way out of proportion. The largest impact it has is on magblade target dummy parses. We will still be fine in pvp.

except my main burst abilities merciless and soul harvest is twice that... My spammable alone is a 10k tooltip, fire reach a 14k tooltip and crippling grasp 16k. Not even including my extra damage from spinners, spell strategist, elemental drain, and penetration cp. The 8 percent adds up over time and helps with my pressure.Stating minor berserk is next to nothing is nonsense. Not mentioning Mag nb is also the worst pvp classes in the game, we don't need anymore nerfs than what we already got in murkmire.

ccmedaddy

twing1_ wrote: »

The loss of minor berserk will be hardly noticeable in pvp.

For example, if your tool tip for a skill does 10k dmg (which is already on the high side), minor berserk grants you a whopping 800 extra damage. In PvP, this drops down to a gain of 400 damage because all damage is halved.

400 damage is next to nothing. It won't be saving any lives and it won't be missed.

If a skills tool tip is even lower than 10k (most are), the damage lost is even smaller.

People are blowing this nerf way out of proportion. The largest impact it has is on magblade target dummy parses. We will still be fine in pvp.

I think the issue here is not whether minor berserk is an important buff or not, it's more about the fact that magblades are already at the bottom of the PvP food chain, and losing 8% damage feels like an unnecessary kick in the nuts.

But then we don't know the full extent of magblade changes so for all we know they could be getting buffed in other areas. Hopefully.

max_only

Roll dodges in before bitter “Nightblade tears collectors” come in to gloat.

HowlKimchi

At this point magblades have to get buffed next patch. We're at rock bottom. Nowhere to go but up. I'm pretty confident that we will be getting some buffs next patch...



If not then... lol

HEBREWHAMMERRR

twing1_ wrote: »

The loss of minor berserk will be hardly noticeable in pvp.

For example, if your tool tip for a skill does 10k dmg (which is already on the high side), minor berserk grants you a whopping 800 extra damage. In PvP, this drops down to a gain of 400 damage because all damage is halved.

400 damage is next to nothing. It won't be saving any lives and it won't be missed.

If a skills tool tip is even lower than 10k (most are), the damage lost is even smaller.

People are blowing this nerf way out of proportion. The largest impact it has is on magblade target dummy parses. We will still be fine in pvp.

Is this a troll post? Hardly noticeable in pvp?! Lol you forget this not only lowers stife damage but the heal return as well. This is a major pvp nerf for an already weak magblade class.

brandonv516

HaruKamui wrote: »

At this point magblades have to get buffed next patch. We're at rock bottom. Nowhere to go but up. I'm pretty confident that we will be getting some buffs next patch...



If not then... lol

Agreed.

Although I would argue 2 of the best indirect buffs for Magblade could be a) Steel Tornado no longer have the execute and b) Wings not reflecting back projectiles.

Now let's how they go through.

Heimpai

brandonv516 wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

At this point magblades have to get buffed next patch. We're at rock bottom. Nowhere to go but up. I'm pretty confident that we will be getting some buffs next patch...



If not then... lol

Agreed.

Although I would argue 2 of the best indirect buffs for Magblade could be a) Steel Tornado no longer have the execute and b) Wings not reflecting back projectiles.

Now let's how they go through.

Idk, i was going to swap GF with FP but now it’ll just do half damage so nope, we’ll just have to wait and see

Narvuntien

I mean they could undo all the nerfs such as the mana cost increase and the cost on the bow attack.

Personally, I would move the minor bezerk from grim focus to Mark Target (changing to major when you kill the target)
That way in PVP you have to tell them you are ganking them and in PVP its just another buff to keep up

ccfeeling

Can someone post the NB nerfing in the past 3 years?

technohic

I am completely ok with them getting rid of 8% damage so long as they add to magblade in some way. Most classes right now I feel like I want to use all the cool class defining abilities, and most class abilities are magicka, yet in PVP, the stamina counterparts feel better. Hope there is much more than what we hear.

Heimpai

ccfeeling wrote: »

Can someone post the NB nerfing in the past 3 years?

Magblade is a NB, you can look up the nerfs yourself

BLAINE1245

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

With all of the talk regarding the minor berserk changes, I can’t help but feel hopeless. This may be premature and some sort of compensation is coming for magblade in PvP but please think about this. We are currently in an abysmal state in pvp. I RARELY see any magblades nowadays, it’s always had an extremely high skill cap and was reliant on its well timed burst in the hands of a good player to remain effective. Yes, the cloaking around perma cloak blades are annoying but they also aren’t really doing much else in regards to DPS pressure. If magblade loses minor berserk for pvp we need some sort of utility to compensate this. I’ve rolled with so many punches as a day 1 magblade. Most notably the cloak purge nerf, siphoning strikes nerf, the bow proc snare nerf, the strife healing received nerf, and evasion nerf, now removal of our minor berserk? The class is underperforming in all facets pvp, ESPECIALLY high MMR battlegrounds as told in a recent community poll. My proposal is simple and would not have an effect on pve, give us a magicka / stamina morph or cloak. The heal was a decent idea but with the siphoning nerf and now evasion virtually murdering off an entire nightblade tank archetype, a stam / mag morph for cloak seems in line. Give stam morph the current guarantee crit chance, this will remain in line with their current pvp cloak and the class is already doing well in pvp as is, for magicka PLEASE give us back the cloak purge for a much needed snare removal in this extremely snare / aoe intensive pvp meta. Again, this would have no ramifications for pvp and would give magblade back some of its class identity of survivability while accepting we are taking a hit to our damage / burst, some added survival for a light armor “assassin” is the least you could do.

Thoughts? This is my 2 cents from a day one magblade. Maybe this is wishful thinking but anyone who played during the cloak purge could vouch this would help the class immensely in the pvp environment while not tilting us over the edge by any means. One of the largest critiques of ZOS is the PvP/PvE balancing act. This is your chance to make a logical change with respect to that.

Agreed to the fullest and I'm a stamblade. The only character I play which is well beyond max CP. Being stam, my character is a khajiit having suffered even more nerfs. This truly is a game breaker for me.

brandonv516

Heimpai wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

At this point magblades have to get buffed next patch. We're at rock bottom. Nowhere to go but up. I'm pretty confident that we will be getting some buffs next patch...



If not then... lol

Agreed.

Although I would argue 2 of the best indirect buffs for Magblade could be a) Steel Tornado no longer have the execute and b) Wings not reflecting back projectiles.

Now let's how they go through.

Idk, i was going to swap GF with FP but now it’ll just do half damage so nope, we’ll just have to wait and see

Depends if it's a reduction to all ranged attacks or projectiles. That's the key.

twing1_

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

The loss of minor berserk will be hardly noticeable in pvp.

For example, if your tool tip for a skill does 10k dmg (which is already on the high side), minor berserk grants you a whopping 800 extra damage. In PvP, this drops down to a gain of 400 damage because all damage is halved.

400 damage is next to nothing. It won't be saving any lives and it won't be missed.

If a skills tool tip is even lower than 10k (most are), the damage lost is even smaller.

People are blowing this nerf way out of proportion. The largest impact it has is on magblade target dummy parses. We will still be fine in pvp.

Is this a troll post? Hardly noticeable in pvp?! Lol you forget this not only lowers stife damage but the heal return as well. This is a major pvp nerf for an already weak magblade class.

Yeah, lowers strife heal. But the tradeoff (from unconfirmed rumors) for minor berserk is that the bow proc will now heal for part of its damage.

HEBREWHAMMERRR

ccfeeling wrote: »

Can someone post the NB nerfing in the past 3 years?

I did a minor synopsis of some major ones that stood out, were you looking for more detail in what I said or what?

HEBREWHAMMERRR

twing1_ wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

The loss of minor berserk will be hardly noticeable in pvp.

For example, if your tool tip for a skill does 10k dmg (which is already on the high side), minor berserk grants you a whopping 800 extra damage. In PvP, this drops down to a gain of 400 damage because all damage is halved.

400 damage is next to nothing. It won't be saving any lives and it won't be missed.

If a skills tool tip is even lower than 10k (most are), the damage lost is even smaller.

People are blowing this nerf way out of proportion. The largest impact it has is on magblade target dummy parses. We will still be fine in pvp.

Is this a troll post? Hardly noticeable in pvp?! Lol you forget this not only lowers stife damage but the heal return as well. This is a major pvp nerf for an already weak magblade class.

Yeah, lowers strife heal. But the tradeoff (from unconfirmed rumors) for minor berserk is that the bow proc will now heal for part of its damage.

This would be interesting as it would allow both class to time up their burst with a heal as well. I would hope it would be a decent size heal as obviously the build up for it would be a pretty long time. This would be very nice though as often times as a magblade when you’re timing burst you’re applying pressure and often the enemy is trying to punish you not knowing what’s coming. This would allow you you to be even more aggressive before a bow proc knowing you’ll have a heal return with your burst. That being said, you definitely would want to time this up with a hard cc for pvp to insure that burst + heal is coming haha. Obvious, I know, but I feel like if a long built up burst + heal is being dodged it would be that much more valuable to make sure you land it.

JediCody

Wait, where is the source for this change? Honestly asking and am curious.

Alucardo

twing1_ wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

The loss of minor berserk will be hardly noticeable in pvp.

For example, if your tool tip for a skill does 10k dmg (which is already on the high side), minor berserk grants you a whopping 800 extra damage. In PvP, this drops down to a gain of 400 damage because all damage is halved.

400 damage is next to nothing. It won't be saving any lives and it won't be missed.

If a skills tool tip is even lower than 10k (most are), the damage lost is even smaller.

People are blowing this nerf way out of proportion. The largest impact it has is on magblade target dummy parses. We will still be fine in pvp.

Is this a troll post? Hardly noticeable in pvp?! Lol you forget this not only lowers stife damage but the heal return as well. This is a major pvp nerf for an already weak magblade class.

Yeah, lowers strife heal. But the tradeoff (from unconfirmed rumors) for minor berserk is that the bow proc will now heal for part of its damage.

Healing was never an issue for me - damage was. Without that timed burst it's so hard to close a kill. What good is another heal to me?

HEBREWHAMMERRR

Alucardo wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

The loss of minor berserk will be hardly noticeable in pvp.

For example, if your tool tip for a skill does 10k dmg (which is already on the high side), minor berserk grants you a whopping 800 extra damage. In PvP, this drops down to a gain of 400 damage because all damage is halved.

400 damage is next to nothing. It won't be saving any lives and it won't be missed.

If a skills tool tip is even lower than 10k (most are), the damage lost is even smaller.

People are blowing this nerf way out of proportion. The largest impact it has is on magblade target dummy parses. We will still be fine in pvp.

Is this a troll post? Hardly noticeable in pvp?! Lol you forget this not only lowers stife damage but the heal return as well. This is a major pvp nerf for an already weak magblade class.

Yeah, lowers strife heal. But the tradeoff (from unconfirmed rumors) for minor berserk is that the bow proc will now heal for part of its damage.

Healing was never an issue for me - damage was. Without that timed burst it's so hard to close a kill. What good is another heal to me?

Depends on the heal size. If it’s a solid burst heal where you could get away with swapping strife for maybe force pulse or a higher dps spammable it could be huge. Or be able to take off a heal utiltity for something else more valuable, maybe an inpale or some sort of other utility buff over healing. Just gotta wait and see I suppose

Sanguinor2

Honestly this Change feels a lot like its made because of pve. And if it were a nerf only impacting pve I honestly wouldnt mind it. Its Pretty tiring to have our nightblade overlords rule dps since years and being forced to Play nightblade mag or stam in serious Raids until very recent Patches, murkmire for templars, wrathstone for sorcs.
At this Point zos should really think about sepparating pve and pvp balancing again or buff/nerf stuff with battle spirit. Buffing nightblade Damage would be problematic for pve but I agree that magblade hasnt been in a good spot for pvp and unless we know what the trade off is gonna be this is not gonna help matters.

Datthaw

twing1_ wrote: »

The loss of minor berserk will be hardly noticeable in pvp.

For example, if your tool tip for a skill does 10k dmg (which is already on the high side), minor berserk grants you a whopping 800 extra damage. In PvP, this drops down to a gain of 400 damage because all damage is halved.

400 damage is next to nothing. It won't be saving any lives and it won't be missed.

If a skills tool tip is even lower than 10k (most are), the damage lost is even smaller.

People are blowing this nerf way out of proportion. The largest impact it has is on magblade target dummy parses. We will still be fine in pvp.

It's 8% less damage. I think I will notice, that's the difference between a successful gank and a fail

r34lian

Where are the changes listed?

Massive_Stain

From a pve standpoint, magblade needs some sort of nerf.. but, I feel like instead of the constant nerf train, ZoS should buff the rest of the classes instead. I mained a sorc since day 1 and that class has been nerfed every single patch.

thankyourat

ccfeeling wrote: »

Can someone post the NB nerfing in the past 3 years?

Strife has taken multiple nerfs to the cost of the ability as well as it use to heal an additional target, Funnel health's damage was cut in half Loss of minor vitality, loss of damage on refreshing path, damage reduction to lotus fan, damage reduction to soul harvest, cost increase to soul harvest, fear use to cc one additional player, cloak lost its purge, merciless had it's projectile speed slowed down, siphoning attacks was completely ruined, loss of dodge chance on blur, merciless proc now cost magicka.

The shield changes were indirect nerfs to magblade. Even though they weren't class specific nerfs magblades relied heavily on shields, the biggest nerf being healing ward losing its up front heal. The proxy detention nerf also hit magblades harder than other classes. It's actually pretty crazy the amount of nerfs magblades received when I've never really heard anyone in cyrodiil say magblade was every op or needed nerfs. When zoS gets bored they Nerf magblades.

twing1_

Datthaw wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

The loss of minor berserk will be hardly noticeable in pvp.

For example, if your tool tip for a skill does 10k dmg (which is already on the high side), minor berserk grants you a whopping 800 extra damage. In PvP, this drops down to a gain of 400 damage because all damage is halved.

400 damage is next to nothing. It won't be saving any lives and it won't be missed.

If a skills tool tip is even lower than 10k (most are), the damage lost is even smaller.

People are blowing this nerf way out of proportion. The largest impact it has is on magblade target dummy parses. We will still be fine in pvp.

It's 8% less damage. I think I will notice, that's the difference between a successful gank and a fail

Coupled with the heal mag nb is getting from the bow proc, it is making the class less ganky and all-or-nothing. The goal of this update was to avoid 1 shotting or ganking ppl in less than 2 seconds (see the snipe change as more evidence of this), and that is likely why this change is being implemented.

Removing berserk and replacing it with a massive burst heal makes it so that mag nb is less dependent on ganking people one by one and helps them stay in the fight longer.

ZOS seems pretty determined to keep the time to kill high enough to give the defending players time to react before being killed (see battle spirit halving damage and adding 5000 health), and this change promotes that.

Emmagoldman

The only magblades that seem to perform are running calurrions and the vdsa destro staff.

I think of all the classes, it is the most limited in set up. Shield changes for sure had a huge impact on this class. Last night playing in bgs was the first time there was a magblade that was a challenge. I play on a crap laptop in costa rica, and consider myself ok but nothing special at all. Magblade is for sure in a poor place

But hey, nerf sorc!!!!!!!