Initial Theorycrafting for Necromancer (PVP)!

HowlKimchi

This is it boys and girls! A whole new class to theorycraft on! Instead of calling out nerfs and *** that'd make the class dead on arrival (pun intended), let's talk about potential builds for the class! The good dudes/gals at fextralife already have a page of the skills here which are of course subject to change: https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Necromancer+Skills

We can probably assume that most of the skills there will function similarly once they are released, and just the numbers will be adjusted.

I will, of course update this first post as more info is added, especially once the PTS hits.

Get to theorycrafting!!!

HowlKimchi

Sets:
5pc necropotence active at all times
5pc armor master active on back bar
1pc master's lightning staff on front bar
2pc monster set (could be anything at this point)

Lightning staff:
Blastbones, Shocking Syphon, Skeletal Mage, Destructive Reach, Elemental Drain. Ult: <any damage ult>

Blastbones+destructive reach+Shocking syphon would be the bread and butter combo. Just before the skeleton from blast bones hits, use destructive reach to cc the enemy, and then immediately use shocking syphon on the corpse created by blastbones.

The skeletal mage and ele drain should be up at all times. Skeletal mage for the dot and to proc necropotence. Destructive reach would be the "spammable" since we are using the master's lightning staff

Restoration Staff:
Summoner's armor (cost reduction morph), Harness magicka, Expunge and Vivify, Spirit Mender, empowering grasp, ult: resto ult/reanimate

Summoner's armor for the major resistance buffs and to reduce the cost of the summons and blastbones (i think) Harness magicka is there for obvious reasons, Expunge and Vivify for our cleanse and resource management, Spirit mender as another source of necropotence buff and a HoT for ourself, and empowering grasp for the snare and minor maim. It also buffs are skeletons which we will both be using.

I am unsure if spirit mender is good enough as a HoT because it can be killed and the heal might not be that strong. WIll depend on numbers. But seeing as this build does not have any other heal aside from resto ult. It might stay since we will be needing a skill to get our health up while harness magicka tanks for us. Also, the spirit mender reduces damage that we get.

Major Sorcery and Prophecy will come from spell pots.

Finally. I am using heals/defensive skills that are not reliant on consuming a corpse because I don't want my defense to be situational and would rather consume corpses for offensive rotations

What are your thoughts?

HowlKimchi

<snip>

Please delete. sorry!

StormeReigns

HaruKamui wrote: »

This is it boys and girls! A whole new class to theorycraft on! Instead of calling out nerfs and *** that'd make the class dead on arrival (pun intended), let's talk about potential builds for the class! The good dudes/gals at fextralife already have a page of the skills here which are of course subject to change: https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Necromancer+Skills

We can probably assume that most of the skills there will function similarly once they are released, and just the numbers will be adjusted.

I will, of course update this first post as more info is added, especially once the PTS hits.

Get to theorycrafting!!!

My "Idea" of a possible PvP Bow/Bow Stamina build...
http://www.eso-skillfactory.com/en/share/30096/

Veeskhleel Argonian Grave Robber Gear Set
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=128885

Reasons for gear choice is maximizing more AoE Bursts and Direct Skull Spam Bursts increased (I am sure there is/will be better choices.)


My theory would be for Single Target, Lethal (would suggest Poison Injection - too lazy to change it at the moment) for open, Archer+Empower (weaving Normal H/L Attacks as needed / refresh Lethal / Poison Injection) Skull x2, Blastbones, Skull

Use Curative Boon for extra Ult. Gain in between / as needed.

AoE Burst would be *Scythe + Blastbones for corpse build and Debuff, drop boneyard, blastbone for more corpse + Scythe, refresh Boneyard+ Blastbones, either Animate Blastbones/Pest.Colossus + end with Detonating Siphon for corpse explosions to maximize final burst(s).

*Scythe as a crutch for extra heals / additional AoE if things survive AoE Burst

Pretty much I see this as an Area of Denial Build to punish packed groups / break groups apart so others can pick off stragglers / those who flee.

LoreToo

5 dragonguard
5 alteration
2 bloodspawn

Say hello to my necrocancer ball group kappa

wheem_ESO

HaruKamui wrote: »

Sets:
5pc necropotence active at all times
5pc armor master active on back bar
1pc master's lightning staff on front bar
2pc monster set (could be anything at this point)

Lightning staff:
Blastbones, Shocking Syphon, Skeletal Mage, Destructive Reach, Elemental Drain. Ult: <any damage ult>

Blastbones+destructive reach+Shocking syphon would be the bread and butter combo. Just before the skeleton from blast bones hits, use destructive reach to cc the enemy, and then immediately use shocking syphon on the corpse created by blastbones.

The skeletal mage and ele drain should be up at all times. Skeletal mage for the dot and to proc necropotence. Destructive reach would be the "spammable" since we are using the master's lightning staff

Restoration Staff:
Summoner's armor (cost reduction morph), Harness magicka, Expunge and Vivify, Spirit Mender, entropy, ult: resto ult/reanimate

Summoner's armor for the major resistance buffs and to reduce the cost of the summons and blastbones (i think) Harness magicka is there for obvious reasons, Expunge and Vivify for our cleanse and resource management, Spirit mender as another source of necropotence buff and a HoT for ourself, and entropy for the major sorcery buff.

I am unsure if spirit mender is good enough as a HoT because it can be killed and the heal might not be that strong. WIll depend on numbers. But seeing as this build does not have any other heal aside from resto ult. It might stay since we will be needing a skill to get our health up while harness magicka tanks for us. Also, the spirit mender reduces damage that we get.

Finally. I am using heals/defensive skills that are not reliant on consuming a corpse because I don't want my defense to be situational and would rather consume corpses for offensive rotations

What are your thoughts?

Comparing the current information to the Magicka Warden that has been my main character since Morrowind's release:

1) I wish Entropy wasn't so bleh. Having my Betty Netch for Major Sorcery for so long has spoiled me. It might be worth running Rattlecage in order to free up the bar slot (perhaps using chest/legs/jewelry, with 5 light on the rest of the body pieces). 'Course, if you're using Skoria for your monster set I guess Entropy isn't quite so bad.

2) Shocking Syphon seems iffy at this point, going strictly by the tooltip text. I'd suspect that the beam between caster and corpse is quite narrow, and only does damage to those that it's actively touching (as opposed to putting a DOT on them when contact is made). If the ability does indeed work the way that I suspect, I don't think it'll be very useful in smaller scale fights. (My opinion may change if the Magicka return on one of the morphs is strong enough, making it more useful for that than for the damage).

3) I'm not so sure about Bone Armor/Summoner's Armor (I've seen both names used by different sources). This is another case where it might end up being better to run a set - Mighty Chudan - to cover the buff, and dedicate the bar slot to something else.

The base cost given (4050 magicka) is the same as a Warden's Ice Fortress, but it loses the Minor Protection for the caster, ability to buff allies, and has a shorter duration (though hopefully the 18 seconds that I've seen listed is for Rank 1 and not Rank 4). In return, you get a corpse-creation mechanic and either 12% cost reduction on your summons, or semi-passive ability to pull in ranged attackers.

I assume that the corpse creation from this skill will trigger when it's refreshed, but if it doesn't, it's a mostly useless mechanic. While 18 seconds is short for a resist buff, it's a long time to wait for a corpse to spawn (and that's assuming that you don't "accidentally" refresh your buff before it runs out). The cost reduction morph should be decent, but keep in mind that you're only going to get 1 Skeletal Mage and 1-2 Menders per cast of the armor buff itself, assuming that they don't die (Blastbones can be cast much more frequently, of course).

The other morph of Bone Armor/Summoner's Armor seems really powerful in certain situations, and will make Stamina Necromancers unkiteable even if they're not running gap closers, but it could also backfire on you. On the one hand, you can cause enemy players to end up way out of position, but you'll also be providing them with CC immunity (assuming that it works like other pulling mechanics), and may actually help attackers keep up with you if you're trying to escape/LOS them.

4) Expunge will be an amazing ability if the rumors about it having an impending health-cost component turn out to be untrue. If it's going to cost a non-trivial amount of HP, though, I think the ability will end up being trash for PvP. Losing HP to clear 3 debuffs simply won't be worth it, especially since some singular abilities can add more than 1 thing to clear. Factor in proc'd bleeds, the Burning DOT, etc...and it just won't be worth it (unless maybe you aren't under fire and are instead using the ability for extra sustain).

Many things are difficult to theorycraft at the moment, as you point out, since we simply don't know what sorts of numbers many of these abilities will actually have. The Spirit Mender could end up being incredibly good, or it might be the case that only the reduced duration version is worth it, and even then only to reliably create a corpse every 8 seconds. That said, my #1 focus in PvP is usually not getting steamrolled by Stamina builds (since they're typically a much bigger threat than almost all Magicka builds/players), so I think my build would end up looking a tad different.

With that in mind, I think it's a borderline requirement to be using some form of snare or root (in this case, either Wall of Frost or Clutching Grasp), along with either high defense and self healing, or good mobility. Magicka Necromancers will, barring some major change(s) in the next 2 months, have absolutely no class-based mobility whatsoever. This leaves you with the option of either playing really tanky, being a Stage 4 Vampire with Mist Form, or both.

In order for me to get more specific on a build, I'd need to see what the numbers on various abilities ultimately end up being. Resistant Flesh could potentially be a really powerful heal, especially if the duration of the resistance debuff goes up above 3 seconds with higher ranks of the skill. And if you're already running Pirate Skeleton (which I typically do on Warden), the Minor Defile won't be too big of a deal. Combining Intensive Mender with Adjacent Tether may also end up being quite strong for staying alive, since you'd have a corpse available more often than you'd actually "need" it (Intensive Mender is listed with an 8 second duration, while the HOT from Adjacent Tether lasts for 12 seconds).

CatchMeTrolling

Curse eater sounds like it should be on a necromancer lol then throw in Necropotence if it procs and probably skoria/kena but I’d honestly have look at the skills and finalize which ones are worth using the most. I was thinking going a bit more aoe/dot ranged build.

wheem_ESO

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Curse eater sounds like it should be on a necromancer lol then throw in Necropotence if it procs and probably skoria/kena but I’d honestly have look at the skills and finalize which ones are worth using the most. I was thinking going a bit more aoe/dot ranged build.

Necromancers don't get any "real" class-based DOTs, which actually surprised me, given the typical stereotype in other games. There's one ground-based AOE Frost damage DOT, and I suppose one could count the Skeletal Mage as a pseudo-DOT (though one that you can't control the target for), but that's it. And since there aren't any other Magicka-based DOTs outside of Wall of Elements, the Rapid Rot passive seems like it's mostly there to make Bleeds better for Stamina Necromancers.

PS
I guess Shocking Syphon could count as a DOT, but as I said above, I think it's a beam between the caster and a corpse, and will probably be pretty easy to avoid.

Edit:
Actually, the description on https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Necromancer+Skills varies slightly from the one at https://www.learneso.net/all-necromancer-abilities-passives-and-morphs/ - which sounds a little better for the ability. The fextralife description is, "Violently drain the last spark of life from a corpse, dealing [x] Shock Damage over 12 seconds to all enemies around the corpse and between you and the corpse" - depending on just how large the area "around the corpse" is, it might actually be more useful than I initially thought.

Iskiab

Way way way too early to theorycraft necro, but fun nonetheless.

I was thinking heavy armour with champions of the hist. DW and S&B/2 hander and being like an ESO version of a Death Knight. High health, lots of aoe, tanky and spin to win.

Also looks like it could be a strong hybrid class, so shacklebreaker too.

CatchMeTrolling

wheem_ESO wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Curse eater sounds like it should be on a necromancer lol then throw in Necropotence if it procs and probably skoria/kena but I’d honestly have look at the skills and finalize which ones are worth using the most. I was thinking going a bit more aoe/dot ranged build.

Necromancers don't get any "real" class-based DOTs, which actually surprised me, given the typical stereotype in other games. There's one ground-based AOE Frost damage DOT, and I suppose one could count the Skeletal Mage as a pseudo-DOT (though one that you can't control the target for), but that's it. And since there aren't any other Magicka-based DOTs outside of Wall of Elements, the Rapid Rot passive seems like it's mostly there to make Bleeds better for Stamina Necromancers.

PS
I guess Shocking Syphon could count as a DOT, but as I said above, I think it's a beam between the caster and a corpse, and will probably be pretty easy to avoid.

Edit:
Actually, the description on https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Necromancer+Skills varies slightly from the one at https://www.learneso.net/all-necromancer-abilities-passives-and-morphs/ - which sounds a little better for the ability. The fextralife description is, "Violently drain the last spark of life from a corpse, dealing [x] Shock Damage over 12 seconds to all enemies around the corpse and between you and the corpse" - depending on just how large the area "around the corpse" is, it might actually be more useful than I initially thought.

Oh it doesn’t have to be jam packed with dots ,just want consistent damage being put out, that’s why I like wall of elements. Lighting staff seems like the way to go too.

Iskiab

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Curse eater sounds like it should be on a necromancer lol then throw in Necropotence if it procs and probably skoria/kena but I’d honestly have look at the skills and finalize which ones are worth using the most. I was thinking going a bit more aoe/dot ranged build.

Necromancers don't get any "real" class-based DOTs, which actually surprised me, given the typical stereotype in other games. There's one ground-based AOE Frost damage DOT, and I suppose one could count the Skeletal Mage as a pseudo-DOT (though one that you can't control the target for), but that's it. And since there aren't any other Magicka-based DOTs outside of Wall of Elements, the Rapid Rot passive seems like it's mostly there to make Bleeds better for Stamina Necromancers.

PS
I guess Shocking Syphon could count as a DOT, but as I said above, I think it's a beam between the caster and a corpse, and will probably be pretty easy to avoid.

Edit:
Actually, the description on https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Necromancer+Skills varies slightly from the one at https://www.learneso.net/all-necromancer-abilities-passives-and-morphs/ - which sounds a little better for the ability. The fextralife description is, "Violently drain the last spark of life from a corpse, dealing [x] Shock Damage over 12 seconds to all enemies around the corpse and between you and the corpse" - depending on just how large the area "around the corpse" is, it might actually be more useful than I initially thought.

Oh it doesn’t have to be jam packed with dots ,just want consistent damage being put out, that’s why I like wall of elements. Lighting staff seems like the way to go too.

Agreed, but ice is better. Without a snare people move out too quickly.

Most people on the pvp forums play solo in cyrodiil though, so build for dueling so you won’t get many to agree with you.

Seenoevil

Stamcro
5 PCs hunt leader
5 pieces morkuldin
2 PCs shadowrend

Run around with floating weapons skeletons and a clanfears. A true necromance

Magcro

5 pieces necro
5 Phoenix
2 PCs maw of infernal

My giant colossus and his pet dragon,
(I'm curious if after the Phoenix res you come back as the colossus)

HowlKimchi

wheem_ESO wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Sets:
5pc necropotence active at all times
5pc armor master active on back bar
1pc master's lightning staff on front bar
2pc monster set (could be anything at this point)

Lightning staff:
Blastbones, Shocking Syphon, Skeletal Mage, Destructive Reach, Elemental Drain. Ult: <any damage ult>

Blastbones+destructive reach+Shocking syphon would be the bread and butter combo. Just before the skeleton from blast bones hits, use destructive reach to cc the enemy, and then immediately use shocking syphon on the corpse created by blastbones.

The skeletal mage and ele drain should be up at all times. Skeletal mage for the dot and to proc necropotence. Destructive reach would be the "spammable" since we are using the master's lightning staff

Restoration Staff:
Summoner's armor (cost reduction morph), Harness magicka, Expunge and Vivify, Spirit Mender, entropy, ult: resto ult/reanimate

Summoner's armor for the major resistance buffs and to reduce the cost of the summons and blastbones (i think) Harness magicka is there for obvious reasons, Expunge and Vivify for our cleanse and resource management, Spirit mender as another source of necropotence buff and a HoT for ourself, and entropy for the major sorcery buff.

I am unsure if spirit mender is good enough as a HoT because it can be killed and the heal might not be that strong. WIll depend on numbers. But seeing as this build does not have any other heal aside from resto ult. It might stay since we will be needing a skill to get our health up while harness magicka tanks for us. Also, the spirit mender reduces damage that we get.

Finally. I am using heals/defensive skills that are not reliant on consuming a corpse because I don't want my defense to be situational and would rather consume corpses for offensive rotations

What are your thoughts?

Comparing the current information to the Magicka Warden that has been my main character since Morrowind's release:

1) I wish Entropy wasn't so bleh. Having my Betty Netch for Major Sorcery for so long has spoiled me. It might be worth running Rattlecage in order to free up the bar slot (perhaps using chest/legs/jewelry, with 5 light on the rest of the body pieces). 'Course, if you're using Skoria for your monster set I guess Entropy isn't quite so bad.

2) Shocking Syphon seems iffy at this point, going strictly by the tooltip text. I'd suspect that the beam between caster and corpse is quite narrow, and only does damage to those that it's actively touching (as opposed to putting a DOT on them when contact is made). If the ability does indeed work the way that I suspect, I don't think it'll be very useful in smaller scale fights. (My opinion may change if the Magicka return on one of the morphs is strong enough, making it more useful for that than for the damage).

3) I'm not so sure about Bone Armor/Summoner's Armor (I've seen both names used by different sources). This is another case where it might end up being better to run a set - Mighty Chudan - to cover the buff, and dedicate the bar slot to something else.

The base cost given (4050 magicka) is the same as a Warden's Ice Fortress, but it loses the Minor Protection for the caster, ability to buff allies, and has a shorter duration (though hopefully the 18 seconds that I've seen listed is for Rank 1 and not Rank 4). In return, you get a corpse-creation mechanic and either 12% cost reduction on your summons, or semi-passive ability to pull in ranged attackers.

I assume that the corpse creation from this skill will trigger when it's refreshed, but if it doesn't, it's a mostly useless mechanic. While 18 seconds is short for a resist buff, it's a long time to wait for a corpse to spawn (and that's assuming that you don't "accidentally" refresh your buff before it runs out). The cost reduction morph should be decent, but keep in mind that you're only going to get 1 Skeletal Mage and 1-2 Menders per cast of the armor buff itself, assuming that they don't die (Blastbones can be cast much more frequently, of course).

The other morph of Bone Armor/Summoner's Armor seems really powerful in certain situations, and will make Stamina Necromancers unkiteable even if they're not running gap closers, but it could also backfire on you. On the one hand, you can cause enemy players to end up way out of position, but you'll also be providing them with CC immunity (assuming that it works like other pulling mechanics), and may actually help attackers keep up with you if you're trying to escape/LOS them.

4) Expunge will be an amazing ability if the rumors about it having an impending health-cost component turn out to be untrue. If it's going to cost a non-trivial amount of HP, though, I think the ability will end up being trash for PvP. Losing HP to clear 3 debuffs simply won't be worth it, especially since some singular abilities can add more than 1 thing to clear. Factor in proc'd bleeds, the Burning DOT, etc...and it just won't be worth it (unless maybe you aren't under fire and are instead using the ability for extra sustain).

Many things are difficult to theorycraft at the moment, as you point out, since we simply don't know what sorts of numbers many of these abilities will actually have. The Spirit Mender could end up being incredibly good, or it might be the case that only the reduced duration version is worth it, and even then only to reliably create a corpse every 8 seconds. That said, my #1 focus in PvP is usually not getting steamrolled by Stamina builds (since they're typically a much bigger threat than almost all Magicka builds/players), so I think my build would end up looking a tad different.

With that in mind, I think it's a borderline requirement to be using some form of snare or root (in this case, either Wall of Frost or Clutching Grasp), along with either high defense and self healing, or good mobility. Magicka Necromancers will, barring some major change(s) in the next 2 months, have absolutely no class-based mobility whatsoever. This leaves you with the option of either playing really tanky, being a Stage 4 Vampire with Mist Form, or both.

In order for me to get more specific on a build, I'd need to see what the numbers on various abilities ultimately end up being. Resistant Flesh could potentially be a really powerful heal, especially if the duration of the resistance debuff goes up above 3 seconds with higher ranks of the skill. And if you're already running Pirate Skeleton (which I typically do on Warden), the Minor Defile won't be too big of a deal. Combining Intensive Mender with Adjacent Tether may also end up being quite strong for staying alive, since you'd have a corpse available more often than you'd actually "need" it (Intensive Mender is listed with an 8 second duration, while the HOT from Adjacent Tether lasts for 12 seconds).

Running rattlecage and chudan is a surefire way of freeing bar slots but being too weak in the process. I think the major resistance skills is worth a slot because those buffs are a requirement, while entropy could be removed in favor of spell pots. I agree that shocking syphon could be terrible for the main combo since we dont know how it behaves yet, but I have a feeling that the aoe and the beam would be pretty nice in combination with a stun and a snare. That's why im changing entropy with grave grasp (empowering grasp/ghostly embrace seems both okay)

As for what kind of staff. I think lightning staff is hands down the best way to go.

CatchMeTrolling

Iskiab wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Curse eater sounds like it should be on a necromancer lol then throw in Necropotence if it procs and probably skoria/kena but I’d honestly have look at the skills and finalize which ones are worth using the most. I was thinking going a bit more aoe/dot ranged build.

Necromancers don't get any "real" class-based DOTs, which actually surprised me, given the typical stereotype in other games. There's one ground-based AOE Frost damage DOT, and I suppose one could count the Skeletal Mage as a pseudo-DOT (though one that you can't control the target for), but that's it. And since there aren't any other Magicka-based DOTs outside of Wall of Elements, the Rapid Rot passive seems like it's mostly there to make Bleeds better for Stamina Necromancers.

PS
I guess Shocking Syphon could count as a DOT, but as I said above, I think it's a beam between the caster and a corpse, and will probably be pretty easy to avoid.

Edit:
Actually, the description on https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Necromancer+Skills varies slightly from the one at https://www.learneso.net/all-necromancer-abilities-passives-and-morphs/ - which sounds a little better for the ability. The fextralife description is, "Violently drain the last spark of life from a corpse, dealing [x] Shock Damage over 12 seconds to all enemies around the corpse and between you and the corpse" - depending on just how large the area "around the corpse" is, it might actually be more useful than I initially thought.

Oh it doesn’t have to be jam packed with dots ,just want consistent damage being put out, that’s why I like wall of elements. Lighting staff seems like the way to go too.

Agreed, but ice is better. Without a snare people move out too quickly.

Most people on the pvp forums play solo in cyrodiil though, so build for dueling so you won’t get many to agree with you.

Seen the class has snares, lighting is much better for damage because of the extra chance to proc things that increase damage. I play solo and bgs , sometimes small group. People still stand in it, plus not too long ago people thought wall of elements was bad in pvp in general, same goes for dots. But guess how many people are running both now ? Ice is good but people underestimate lightning, the most damage I’ve put up was with lighting on my magden (2.7 mill) so it’s viable.

I also doubt most most play solo on here, there’s very few solo players in the game.

wheem_ESO

HaruKamui wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Sets:
5pc necropotence active at all times
5pc armor master active on back bar
1pc master's lightning staff on front bar
2pc monster set (could be anything at this point)

Lightning staff:
Blastbones, Shocking Syphon, Skeletal Mage, Destructive Reach, Elemental Drain. Ult: <any damage ult>

Blastbones+destructive reach+Shocking syphon would be the bread and butter combo. Just before the skeleton from blast bones hits, use destructive reach to cc the enemy, and then immediately use shocking syphon on the corpse created by blastbones.

The skeletal mage and ele drain should be up at all times. Skeletal mage for the dot and to proc necropotence. Destructive reach would be the "spammable" since we are using the master's lightning staff

Restoration Staff:
Summoner's armor (cost reduction morph), Harness magicka, Expunge and Vivify, Spirit Mender, entropy, ult: resto ult/reanimate

Summoner's armor for the major resistance buffs and to reduce the cost of the summons and blastbones (i think) Harness magicka is there for obvious reasons, Expunge and Vivify for our cleanse and resource management, Spirit mender as another source of necropotence buff and a HoT for ourself, and entropy for the major sorcery buff.

I am unsure if spirit mender is good enough as a HoT because it can be killed and the heal might not be that strong. WIll depend on numbers. But seeing as this build does not have any other heal aside from resto ult. It might stay since we will be needing a skill to get our health up while harness magicka tanks for us. Also, the spirit mender reduces damage that we get.

Finally. I am using heals/defensive skills that are not reliant on consuming a corpse because I don't want my defense to be situational and would rather consume corpses for offensive rotations

What are your thoughts?

Comparing the current information to the Magicka Warden that has been my main character since Morrowind's release:

1) I wish Entropy wasn't so bleh. Having my Betty Netch for Major Sorcery for so long has spoiled me. It might be worth running Rattlecage in order to free up the bar slot (perhaps using chest/legs/jewelry, with 5 light on the rest of the body pieces). 'Course, if you're using Skoria for your monster set I guess Entropy isn't quite so bad.

2) Shocking Syphon seems iffy at this point, going strictly by the tooltip text. I'd suspect that the beam between caster and corpse is quite narrow, and only does damage to those that it's actively touching (as opposed to putting a DOT on them when contact is made). If the ability does indeed work the way that I suspect, I don't think it'll be very useful in smaller scale fights. (My opinion may change if the Magicka return on one of the morphs is strong enough, making it more useful for that than for the damage).

3) I'm not so sure about Bone Armor/Summoner's Armor (I've seen both names used by different sources). This is another case where it might end up being better to run a set - Mighty Chudan - to cover the buff, and dedicate the bar slot to something else.

The base cost given (4050 magicka) is the same as a Warden's Ice Fortress, but it loses the Minor Protection for the caster, ability to buff allies, and has a shorter duration (though hopefully the 18 seconds that I've seen listed is for Rank 1 and not Rank 4). In return, you get a corpse-creation mechanic and either 12% cost reduction on your summons, or semi-passive ability to pull in ranged attackers.

I assume that the corpse creation from this skill will trigger when it's refreshed, but if it doesn't, it's a mostly useless mechanic. While 18 seconds is short for a resist buff, it's a long time to wait for a corpse to spawn (and that's assuming that you don't "accidentally" refresh your buff before it runs out). The cost reduction morph should be decent, but keep in mind that you're only going to get 1 Skeletal Mage and 1-2 Menders per cast of the armor buff itself, assuming that they don't die (Blastbones can be cast much more frequently, of course).

The other morph of Bone Armor/Summoner's Armor seems really powerful in certain situations, and will make Stamina Necromancers unkiteable even if they're not running gap closers, but it could also backfire on you. On the one hand, you can cause enemy players to end up way out of position, but you'll also be providing them with CC immunity (assuming that it works like other pulling mechanics), and may actually help attackers keep up with you if you're trying to escape/LOS them.

4) Expunge will be an amazing ability if the rumors about it having an impending health-cost component turn out to be untrue. If it's going to cost a non-trivial amount of HP, though, I think the ability will end up being trash for PvP. Losing HP to clear 3 debuffs simply won't be worth it, especially since some singular abilities can add more than 1 thing to clear. Factor in proc'd bleeds, the Burning DOT, etc...and it just won't be worth it (unless maybe you aren't under fire and are instead using the ability for extra sustain).

Many things are difficult to theorycraft at the moment, as you point out, since we simply don't know what sorts of numbers many of these abilities will actually have. The Spirit Mender could end up being incredibly good, or it might be the case that only the reduced duration version is worth it, and even then only to reliably create a corpse every 8 seconds. That said, my #1 focus in PvP is usually not getting steamrolled by Stamina builds (since they're typically a much bigger threat than almost all Magicka builds/players), so I think my build would end up looking a tad different.

With that in mind, I think it's a borderline requirement to be using some form of snare or root (in this case, either Wall of Frost or Clutching Grasp), along with either high defense and self healing, or good mobility. Magicka Necromancers will, barring some major change(s) in the next 2 months, have absolutely no class-based mobility whatsoever. This leaves you with the option of either playing really tanky, being a Stage 4 Vampire with Mist Form, or both.

In order for me to get more specific on a build, I'd need to see what the numbers on various abilities ultimately end up being. Resistant Flesh could potentially be a really powerful heal, especially if the duration of the resistance debuff goes up above 3 seconds with higher ranks of the skill. And if you're already running Pirate Skeleton (which I typically do on Warden), the Minor Defile won't be too big of a deal. Combining Intensive Mender with Adjacent Tether may also end up being quite strong for staying alive, since you'd have a corpse available more often than you'd actually "need" it (Intensive Mender is listed with an 8 second duration, while the HOT from Adjacent Tether lasts for 12 seconds).

Running rattlecage and chudan is a surefire way of freeing bar slots but being too weak in the process. I think the major resistance skills is worth a slot because those buffs are a requirement, while entropy could be removed in favor of spell pots. I agree that shocking syphon could be terrible for the main combo since we dont know how it behaves yet, but I have a feeling that the aoe and the beam would be pretty nice in combination with a stun and a snare. That's why im changing entropy with grave grasp (empowering grasp/ghostly embrace seems both okay)

As for what kind of staff. I think lightning staff is hands down the best way to go.

You don't have to run both Rattlecage and Mighty Chudan, but they're not necessarily "bad" sets, depending on class and build. Mighty Chudan doesn't really make sense on my Magicka Warden, for example, since Ice Fortress provides Minor Protection for the caster and major resist buffs for teammates (allowing them to either swap out their own abilities, or covering for their lack of having one to begin with - ie, Werewolves). Same goes for Rattlecage, since the Blue Betty is really good for reasons beyond the Major Sorcery buff.

For Necromancers though, I think it's a bit less clear cut. All facets of Entropy are pretty bad; the duration of the buff, the damage of the DOT, the "healing," - all vastly inferior to Stamina's generic options for Greater Brutality. It's an extra chance to proc Skoria if you're running that set, but that's really all it has going for it. And while Spell Power potions are certainly an option if you want to save the bar slot without using Rattlecage, they have drawbacks of their own.

The armor buff is more arguable, I think, but the current incarnation doesn't seem particularly great. Currently, it's listed as having a 4050 Magicka base cost, and 18 second duration. That means that the cost reduction will apply to 1 Skeletal Mage and 1-2 Spirit Menders (depending on morph used) per armor buff cast, along with a variable number of Blastbones.

According to the livestream a little bit ago, a Necromancer's "pet" will need to be active for around half of its full duration before being eligible to become a usable corpse. If the same is true for the armor buff, I suppose that wouldn't be a terrible way to get a sorta-kinda on-demand corpse, though the Magicka cost isn't exactly cheap.

'Course, it's possible that the balance changes in update 22 will make Entropy better, and who knows what will happen with Necromancers over the next ~2 months before early access?

TheBonesXXX

I'm gonna try to hybrid. Slime/dreugh/pelenials

Either 2 or DW with a frost staff

HowlKimchi

The monster set I will run will all depend on how good the heals are of the support pet. Right now i'm leaning on using a defensive monster set.

As for snares, I bet necro's grasp is a good enough aoe snare.

Minno

LoreToo wrote: »

5 dragonguard
5 alteration
2 bloodspawn

Say hello to my necrocancer ball group kappa

I'm crediting you for the meme nickname!

Slack

Why not the universal all-classes pro build?

2x Zaan
5x Sload
5x Caluurion /eternal hunt