Suggestions for Necromancer class

Reinfarcements

I would be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed with the Necro. I expected the Necro to have options like the Sorc to have zero pets and be completely viable. But I also expected someone who wanted to maximize their pets, make the best pet build possible, picking a skill here and there out of all the skill trees, would be able to have more than 2 minions. And only one of those even does damage, the other is a healer. So yeah, having even less actual pets (the bomber is just a projectile spell at the end of the day if we are honest) than the Sorc that fight for you, kinda ruined my entire idea about the Necro. And to be clear I DO NOT want to take away Necro builds that have zero pets, I know many people want to do that and thats cool.

So here are my suggestions that can be implemented without changing too much of what the current skills are:

-Make one or both of the Morphs of Skeletal mage recast-able, and upon doing so will summon a second Skeletal Mage. Any recast from that point on will reset the summons time.
-Make room for a Skeletal Warrior summon. Whether this be replacing Skeletal Bomber, or replacing one of the Skeletal Bomber morphs, or even replace a different skill altogether. Have the morph do the same as suggested Skeletal Mage morph (recast-able to get second summon and from then on recast resets timer)
-Have the healing summon recast-able to reset the timer as well

If these changes were made, that is 5 summons for a high level Necro that could be potentially sustained throughout combat provided you are gaining enough resources. This would make the class feel 100 times better for people wanting to make a pet build out of it, and it makes minimal changes to the current skills (Minimal changes 2 morphs and adds recast to Mender. Maximum changes one morph, replaces a skill, and adds recast to Mender). Obviously all statistical balance changes to damage numbers, resource cost, ect. Are up to the Devs.

I feel like that is a fair compromise between those who love the way the Necro is now, and those who wanted more of a possible pet build.

SilverIce58

I actually would like that. Maybe for the stamina morph it summons the warrior, and then the second cast summons the archer. And the second summon could always do a tad less damage than the first. Its an interesting idea for sure.

blkjag

Trash it

Reinfarcements

blkjag wrote: »

Trash it

Trash what? This suggestion or the current Necromancer skill lines?

SilverIce58

blkjag wrote: »

Trash it

The class isnt even out yet. Everything we've seen has just been previews. Everything is subject to change. Chill out.

giantpixie

I would love love for the necromancer to have a way to apply Minor Stamina steal as it’s a unique debuff that no class can currently provide it and it would give the class a definite spot on a trial teams

StormeReigns

From my impressions, it seems like you should be able to have 4-to-6 (max) summons up at once (that is including Blast Bones being a very brief summon).

Pretty much my idea (Bow/Bow) of what I'll be (hopefully) doing Keeping Mage/Archer + Mender up with Emp.Grasp on them to maintain their buffs; small heal and Dot over the 16seconds while alternating normal attacks with Skull and Blast nuking with Ruin.Scythe as a crutch when in melee range.

Build up enough corpses and Archer + Mender + Emp. Grasp, pop Animate BlastBones (or Pest.Col) + Blast Bone Spam and pop Detonating Siphon for AoE Nuking.

Roughly would be a ramp up to having 16seconds worth of Massive AoE carnage
While using Snipe (Lethal) after the 2nd / 3rd Skull spam interweaving Archer+Mender and normal HA/LA weaving

Skill/CP Set
http://www.eso-skillfactory.com/en/share/30093/

While using this gear set up (mainly to maximize the potential Poison & Disease ST + AoE bursts)
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=128885

I do though like the idea you proposed, hard to say with anything do to how early it is though lol.

Reinfarcements

Yeah I just have a hard time considering the Bombers or Skulls actual pet summons. They really work like projectiles more than anything, like the Warden's cliff racers and such.

idk

I may not be reading correctly but it seems OP is asking to be able to have 5 summons in one build. That does not seem to be a reasonable expectation since none of the two summons classes we currently have can get anywhere near that.

Reinfarcements

idk wrote: »

I may not be reading correctly but it seems OP is asking to be able to have 5 summons in one build. That does not seem to be a reasonable expectation since none of the two summons classes we currently have can get anywhere near that.

This is mostly to make the Necro feel different from the other summon classes with a numbers vs quality type thing. 5 summons means nothing balance wise if they are all terrible. So its up the Devs to balance it, but when most people think Necro they think summoning lots of undead to do their bidding. Additionally these summons are not permanent like the other classes, they would require resources to sustain which means you would have less resources to use on other abilities, balancing this even further.

Itzmichi

But let's be honest I never expected there to be more then 2 pets in the first places. Just imaging having every PVP or PvE Necromancer have like 5 Pets + Ulti in Cyrodiil or in a Trial performance would drop to 1 fps and everybody would go wild about it.

I don't think this game has the capacity to actually handle more then that and thus I'm happy if it stays the way it is.

TheShadowScout

Reinfarcements wrote: »

Suggestions for Necromancer class

...how about... having them denied membership in the psijic order just for kicks and immersion?
"Gah! Filthy necromancer, get thee gone, we already got burned enough with that Mannimarco fellow..."

Reinfarcements wrote: »

I would be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed with the Necro...

...but all those suggestions should wait until we have the -final- version of the class, AND some months of seeing how it -actually- performs in cyrodil and trial runs, and everything.
THEN we can start the whining, because that will be the time where the people at ZOS are going to be collecting info to find out what they need to nerf and what they want to buff...

So... this discussion... seeya in a bit?

Alsaroth

I like the idea. A morph to extend summons in some way, while the other morph maybe increases damage (balance dot and burst).

Narvuntien

I think it will be perfectly possible to play nerco without pets. The only required pet is the skeleton that runs at the enemy to fuel corpses for your skills it has a short uptime.

Typically the passives are "while active" doesn't necessary mean the pet skills"

SilverIce58

idk wrote: »

I may not be reading correctly but it seems OP is asking to be able to have 5 summons in one build. That does not seem to be a reasonable expectation since none of the two summons classes we currently have can get anywhere near that.

That's not correct. If you include the storm atro, a sorc can have up to 4 summons. Matriarch, clannfear/scamp, storm atro, and either shadowrend or maw of the infernal. Right now its the most pets anyone can have.

Reinfarcements

TheShadowScout wrote: »

...but all those suggestions should wait until we have the -final- version of the class, AND some months of seeing how it -actually- performs in cyrodil and trial runs, and everything.
THEN we can start the whining, because that will be the time where the people at ZOS are going to be collecting info to find out what they need to nerf and what they want to buff...

So... this discussion... seeya in a bit?

These suggestions are not claiming the class is OP or that its not going to be a fun class. These suggestions are to make the class have a pet build option that many people were expecting when they heard about the Necro. The skills are all revealed to us, we can literally see that a you only get 2 real pets and only one of those fights for you. Also I don't see suggestions that actually lay-out possible solutions as whining but to each their own.

So... this discussion... I think I'll have it now.

pat_thetic

Summons shouldn't last forever. Once their time is up, they collapse into ash

proteinexe

PLEASE add a hard CC or Execute - it'll just become another Warden otherwise.

omarxz11

Reinfarcements wrote: »

I would be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed with the Necro. I expected the Necro to have options like the Sorc to have zero pets and be completely viable. But I also expected someone who wanted to maximize their pets, make the best pet build possible, picking a skill here and there out of all the skill trees, would be able to have more than 2 minions. And only one of those even does damage, the other is a healer. So yeah, having even less actual pets (the bomber is just a projectile spell at the end of the day if we are honest) than the Sorc that fight for you, kinda ruined my entire idea about the Necro. And to be clear I DO NOT want to take away Necro builds that have zero pets, I know many people want to do that and thats cool.

So here are my suggestions that can be implemented without changing too much of what the current skills are:

-Make one or both of the Morphs of Skeletal mage recast-able, and upon doing so will summon a second Skeletal Mage. Any recast from that point on will reset the summons time.
-Make room for a Skeletal Warrior summon. Whether this be replacing Skeletal Bomber, or replacing one of the Skeletal Bomber morphs, or even replace a different skill altogether. Have the morph do the same as suggested Skeletal Mage morph (recast-able to get second summon and from then on recast resets timer)
-Have the healing summon recast-able to reset the timer as well

If these changes were made, that is 5 summons for a high level Necro that could be potentially sustained throughout combat provided you are gaining enough resources. This would make the class feel 100 times better for people wanting to make a pet build out of it, and it makes minimal changes to the current skills (Minimal changes 2 morphs and adds recast to Mender. Maximum changes one morph, replaces a skill, and adds recast to Mender). Obviously all statistical balance changes to damage numbers, resource cost, ect. Are up to the Devs.

I feel like that is a fair compromise between those who love the way the Necro is now, and those who wanted more of a possible pet build.

you forgot about summon zombie for necromancer

omarxz11

SilverIce58 wrote: »

blkjag wrote: »

Trash it

The class isnt even out yet. Everything we've seen has just been previews. Everything is subject to change. Chill out.

/slap shut up , the changes should be made BEFORE EVEN CLASS COME , it never happen when class release and then boom they change stuff in it in 1 week , how that hard to understand people ? its like back cake and ask the chief to change its flavor

omarxz11

omarxz11 wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

blkjag wrote: »

Trash it

The class isnt even out yet. Everything we've seen has just been previews. Everything is subject to change. Chill out.

/slap shut up , the changes should be made BEFORE EVEN CLASS COME , it never happen when class release and then boom they change big stuff in it in 1 week like adding skill/morph , how that hard to understand people ? its like back cake and ask the chief to change its flavor

RavenSworn

Why? The skill are going to be considered a criminal act even. Why want to have a permanent pet? There's so many threads complaining on the number of flapping wings and bear bu-tts blocking npcs and all.

The fact that it doesn't have a permanent pet but rather summons makes eso necro different from other games. Your expectations aren't just the only ones in game.

Reinfarcements

I understand its a long post but I wish more of you would actually read it all the way through. I never suggested PERMANENT PETS I suggested having the ability to recast the ability and have the summons time reset.

So lets say you have your skeletal mage summoned. He last 16 seconds. But you recast the ability before 16 seconds is up and it restarts the 16 seconds.

The idea is, if a player wanted to maximize a pet build with the Necro, with the changes I have suggested, they would be able to sustain a group of 5 summons IF THEY KEEP SPENDING RESOURCES to keep them summoned. So the Necro player would need enough resources and/or resource recovery to keep all their pets active through-out combat.

After combat is over, obviously there is no reason to keep recasting to keep the pets alive, so they would die after their normal 16 seconds is up.

I'm not suggesting the Necro run around with 5 pets active at all times.

Michaelkeir

Reinfarcements wrote: »

I would be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed with the Necro. I expected the Necro to have options like the Sorc to have zero pets and be completely viable. But I also expected someone who wanted to maximize their pets, make the best pet build possible, picking a skill here and there out of all the skill trees, would be able to have more than 2 minions. And only one of those even does damage, the other is a healer. So yeah, having even less actual pets (the bomber is just a projectile spell at the end of the day if we are honest) than the Sorc that fight for you, kinda ruined my entire idea about the Necro. And to be clear I DO NOT want to take away Necro builds that have zero pets, I know many people want to do that and thats cool.

So here are my suggestions that can be implemented without changing too much of what the current skills are:

-Make one or both of the Morphs of Skeletal mage recast-able, and upon doing so will summon a second Skeletal Mage. Any recast from that point on will reset the summons time.
-Make room for a Skeletal Warrior summon. Whether this be replacing Skeletal Bomber, or replacing one of the Skeletal Bomber morphs, or even replace a different skill altogether. Have the morph do the same as suggested Skeletal Mage morph (recast-able to get second summon and from then on recast resets timer)
-Have the healing summon recast-able to reset the timer as well

If these changes were made, that is 5 summons for a high level Necro that could be potentially sustained throughout combat provided you are gaining enough resources. This would make the class feel 100 times better for people wanting to make a pet build out of it, and it makes minimal changes to the current skills (Minimal changes 2 morphs and adds recast to Mender. Maximum changes one morph, replaces a skill, and adds recast to Mender). Obviously all statistical balance changes to damage numbers, resource cost, ect. Are up to the Devs.

I feel like that is a fair compromise between those who love the way the Necro is now, and those who wanted more of a possible pet build.

Yes to all this.....

david_m_18b16_ESO

Sorc used to be unic beeing the only pet class. Then warden came and got pet. If necro had permanent pet it would be silly for sorc.

Its like if the 2 new class had invis from NB or wings from DK.

P.S. bee8ng able to spam pets is pretty much the same as permanant pet.

Well ita a bit worst since its the way necro works in D3.

Reinfarcements

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

Sorc used to be unic beeing the only pet class. Then warden came and got pet. If necro had permanent pet it would be silly for sorc.

Its like if the 2 new class had invis from NB or wings from DK.

P.S. bee8ng able to spam pets is pretty much the same as permanant pet.

Well ita a bit worst since its the way necro works in D3.

It absolutely is not pretty much the same. If you have to constantly use resources to keep the pets around it affects your ability to use any other ability consistently. Its basically a choice of keeping your pets around or using something else. A completely different dynamic than a permanent pet.

therift

Nah.

ZoS is on the right track. Sorc is the 'summon pet' class. Necromancer should be unique, not a sorc doppleganger.

Reinfarcements

therift wrote: »

Nah.

ZoS is on the right track. Sorc is the 'summon pet' class. Necromancer should be unique, not a sorc doppleganger.

As minimal as these suggested changes are, the Necro and Sorc would play extremely differant. Just because both would have pets does not mean it would be a Sorc doppleganger. In fact, technically the Necro would resemble the Sorc more before these suggested changes because as of right now it has 2 pets, the same as Sorc. With these changes it would be possible to have 5. So I don't get that reasoning.