What did they do to the MMR?

ChunkyCat

Before wrathstone, given how many BG matches I played, I would consistently end up “randomly” matching with the same couple dozen players. One match they’d be on my team, the next match they’d be on the opposing team, but it was always the same group of players.

Since Wrathstone, I get grouped with those same players I recognize, but every other match I also get matched with players I’ve never seen. Some of whom are those nooby Stam blades with just a couple hundred CPs.

I’m all for WTFstomping on some nooby stamblades, just trying to point out that it appears they changed the MMR to reduce the likelyhood of high MMR folks consistently matching with the same players over and over again.

Anyone else notice that?

brandonv516

Yep.

One match I'm playing with and against high MMR players.

Next match I'm seeing names I've never heard of.

It's a good change.

iCaliban

Same here chunky. Its a combination of things I think.

One of the largest groups of high MMR players has left for cyrodil temporarily. The changes to premade wait time is driving players away as well.

frostz417

Just remove it entirely

jcm2606

Wouldn't be surprised. It seems they're trying to intentionally break MMR to make up for its shortfallings, which is so completely backwards. If you need to break your system to get it to go what you want, your system was broken from the beginning, and desperately needs to be redesigned.

MaxJrFTW

iCaliban wrote: »

Same here chunky. Its a combination of things I think.

One of the largest groups of high MMR players has left for cyrodil temporarily. The changes to premade wait time is driving players away as well.

Good thing. Nobody likes premades anyways.

Aurielle

I’ve noticed it too. It’s really frustrating when the sub CP 160s end up on your team, as most can’t even crack 100k damage. It’s nice to see new names and faces, though.

People just need to realize that once they hit level 50, they REALLY need to hit CP gear cap and wear appropriate gear before running BGs again...

thoughtseize

I wait in queue more than I actually play this game now. I'm on ps4 na and yesterday my friends and i waited in queue for 30+ minutes to end up seeing just people solo, as usual. We played 3 games in 2 hours then decided to log out. We were just 3 people and not even a full group. If we're just gonna get paired against solo players most of the time and wait over a half hour to finish a game in less than 10 minutes at least make the queues quick. Same goes for when I solo queue. By myself I wait over 20 minutes for a random. I have no idea how MMR actually works but this allows me to play another MMO on the side since all I do is sit in queue for this one.

I don't mind going against premades if I'm solo. I just don't want to wait a ridiculous amount of time to get in a bg at all.

CatchMeTrolling

Was playing yesterday, on my magblade it’s teally random but on my stamplar it’s the usual people for the most part.

ccmedaddy

Would really like to be not teamed up with undergeared sub cp160 players against max CP premades. I don't think this is too much to ask.

Conversely, I've had some matches where I'm literally the only person who knows what I'm doing and end up with some ridiculous KDA like 30-1-10. Again, not my idea of fun.

Thogard

I think the issue is that lowbie bg MMR is not only carrying over to regular BG MMR but it’s also weighted more heavily.

In other words, moving to the high MMR in lowbie BGs would also put you in the high MMR regular BGs... so toons that leveled through lowbie BGs are gonna get thrown to the front of the meat grinder once they hit 50.

To put it another way, while it would take ~300+ matches to get to high MMR in regular BGs, it would only take 30 to get to high MMR in lowbie BGs... and those players stay in high MMR when they enter regular BGs. It happened to both of the toons I leveled through BGs.

I bet if you ask those stamblades they’ll tell you they played a lot of lowbie BGs. Next time you see something like that please ask so that we can test this hypothesis. So far, when I’ve asked, my findings have been supported.

Aurielle

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Would really like to be not teamed up with undergeared sub cp160 players against max CP premades. I don't think this is too much to ask.

Conversely, I've had some matches where I'm literally the only person who knows what I'm doing and end up with some ridiculous KDA like 30-1-10. Again, not my idea of fun.

This. I know you and I are in the same MMR bracket, so I know you’re seeing what I’m seeing. Usually, you’ve got decent people on the team who know what they’re doing. Every so often, though, there’s a sub CP 160 on the team... these idiots do little more than feed the opposing teams, and finish with 0 kills, 10-15 deaths, and minimal assists. I’ve had to explain so many times now since the update that there is a gear cap in ESO, and that you’re doing your team a huge disservice if you aren’t at the VERY least CP 160 with actual gear sets in use.

It blows my mind that the MMR for under 50 BGs appears to translate over to vet BGs once those lowbies hit CP level... Surely the devs aren’t that short-sighted? Surely?

ccmedaddy

@Aurielle I feel you. I can't get mad at newer players for not knowing what to do though. IMO the blame lies entirely on ZOS for the crap matchmaking algorithm.

And yeah the MMR carrying over from low lvl BGs to lvl 50+ BGs is a problem. I recently leveled a stamblade and the transition from low lvl (where I was getting kills left and right in training gear) to high MMR BGs was rough to say the least. I can't imagine how awful it is for newer players to be matched up against skilled players in meta gear. And ZOS wonders why most ESO players don't bother with BGs. 🙄

WuffyCerulei

I think it's a good change. I really don't mind helping lowbies get a win.

Aurielle

ccmedaddy wrote: »

@Aurielle I feel you. I can't get mad at newer players for not knowing what to do though. IMO the blame lies entirely on ZOS for the crap matchmaking algorithm.

And yeah the MMR carrying over from low lvl BGs to lvl 50+ BGs is a problem. I recently leveled a stamblade and the transition from low lvl (where I was getting kills left and right in training gear) to high MMR BGs was rough to say the least. I can't imagine how awful it is for newer players to be matched up against skilled players in meta gear. And ZOS wonders why most ESO players don't bother with BGs. 🙄

I agree that the blame lies 100% on ZOS for allowing this to happen in the first place. Sometimes, though... man, some of the sub CP 160’s really lack in basic common sense. If I were in their shoes, I’d take one look at the scoreboard, look at my damage/healing output relative to everyone else’s, and realize “holy crap, I don’t belong here.” I can’t blame them for being there in the first place, but I also don’t understand why they stay in the match when it’s reaaally obvious that they’re the weak link. I’d honestly rather play outnumbered than play with an undergeared and inexperienced player who basically just feeds kills to the opposing teams and refuses to listen to advice. The situation isn’t fair to the new players, nor is it fair to veteran players.

ZOS absolutely needs to do something about this, and fast. BGs are a lot of fun, and it would REALLY suck if ZOS turns away new players by throwing them into MMR brackets where they really don’t belong. MMR should reset once a player hits level 50, simple.

iCaliban

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Same here chunky. Its a combination of things I think.

One of the largest groups of high MMR players has left for cyrodil temporarily. The changes to premade wait time is driving players away as well.

Good thing. Nobody likes premades anyways.

I would prefer to fight a premade, rather than 5 or 6 cp 160 snipe blades hiding in every corner of the map. Which is what low mmr games tend to be.

mursie

it all cancels out if you just remove the ability to group que in bg's.

everyone should be solo qued. then everyone is RNG assigned. everyone might have a good player on the team..and a new player on the team. You could keep MMR in that system but it wouldn't penalize high MMR players into exceptionally long que times.

the only real issue with BG's. = premades, imho.

Aurielle

I’ve had multiple sub-CP 160 players on my teams today... these guys are lucky if they even break 500 points in deathmatches. ZOS, you’re going to bleed new players VERY quickly if you don’t fix this.

MaxJrFTW

iCaliban wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Same here chunky. Its a combination of things I think.

One of the largest groups of high MMR players has left for cyrodil temporarily. The changes to premade wait time is driving players away as well.

Good thing. Nobody likes premades anyways.

I would prefer to fight a premade, rather than 5 or 6 cp 160 snipe blades hiding in every corner of the map. Which is what low mmr games tend to be.

I get it. You're a masochist and probably queue as a premade against solo players. I disagree with you though.

Iskiab

Thogard wrote: »

I think the issue is that lowbie bg MMR is not only carrying over to regular BG MMR but it’s also weighted more heavily.

In other words, moving to the high MMR in lowbie BGs would also put you in the high MMR regular BGs... so toons that leveled through lowbie BGs are gonna get thrown to the front of the meat grinder once they hit 50.

To put it another way, while it would take ~300+ matches to get to high MMR in regular BGs, it would only take 30 to get to high MMR in lowbie BGs... and those players stay in high MMR when they enter regular BGs. It happened to both of the toons I leveled through BGs.

I bet if you ask those stamblades they’ll tell you they played a lot of lowbie BGs. Next time you see something like that please ask so that we can test this hypothesis. So far, when I’ve asked, my findings have been supported.

This was my experience with my stamblade. I thought I had a decent build and tore up BGs while leveling. Hit 50 and got absolutely destroyed and saw the same names I do on my main. I hadn’t even finished leveling my skill lines.

I kept at it and eventually my MMR dropped to where I could win and finish the daily.

Despite what people think, I think your MMR fluctuates and can go up or down depending on how you do. Eventually it’ll set you at an appropriate level.

Pdoherty4637_ESO

mursie wrote: »

it all cancels out if you just remove the ability to group que in bg's.

everyone should be solo qued. then everyone is RNG assigned. everyone might have a good player on the team..and a new player on the team. You could keep MMR in that system but it wouldn't penalize high MMR players into exceptionally long que times.

the only real issue with BG's. = premades, imho.

Gonna have to give that idea a hard pass. 1.) the queue is so bad and games are still starting with 8-11 players as it is, so implementing that idea would make a bad situation worse. 2.) I'd literally stop playing BGs immediately (as would a large chunk of the population, I think) if I couldn't guarantee being grouped with my friends. I play with 2 other guys and we all work full time and have commitments. If I couldn't actually play WITH them the 10 or so games a week I get, it wouldn't be worth it to me. There are so many good ideas to help reduce the impact of pre-mades and I'd love a 7v7 or 8v8 queue or even a 6v6v6 option but the population of BGs is just not healthy enough to support multiple different queue types as it is. BGs could be so good in this game but they aren't a cash flow for ZOS so they get low priority.

Iskiab

I don’t think they’re low priority, just really hard on new players.