Questing difficulty

TheDodge

Hey guys,

For those of you who know me, you'll find this very strange to hear, but here it is none the less.
I'm a fan of questing in the new content; not vet dungeon quests, or trial quests because to me anyone who is doing that content at a high level, isn't interested in what the constructs are up to .
No i'm talking about your standard zone quests and story lines.
I really enjoy the lore and the dialogue (to an extent).
However my problem comes when I need to go somewhere, or do something in which the quest design puts enemies in front of me to break up the mass amount of dialogue and information thrown at me.
Now I appreciate this and it makes sense as to why it's done and I love the combat system.
HOWEVER
That combat system lasts about 2 seconds per enemy and I don't see my health bar budge.
What i'm looking for is some form of instanced "difficulty modifier" in order to make that break between dialogue A) be long enough for a break, and B ) allow me to actually see the mechanics of enemies and enjoy the character I've built in all of it's DPS and survival glory.
Now an argument could be made for "just do it naked", or "reset your CP and attri points", and in practice I imagine this would make combat last longer.
But if i'm expected to artificially weaken my character, and the testing I've put in to make it as strong as it is gone, all to make enemies "stronger", then that defeats the point for me.
All i'm looking for, is actual challenge when questing, from a combat perspective, without having to change the character I've spent so much time building.
Now whether this means that my characters resources and damage are scaled down to make enemies "stronger" or whether enemies themselves are made healthier and stronger, is up to the devs ofc.
But all i'm asking for, is to enjoy all the features of the game (sets, CP, attri points, etc), but also not one shotting every enemy with a crit crystal frags.
Hopefully I've put across what I'm looking for clearly and would be interested to hear others thoughts on this and possibly ZOS reps.

Peace,

~Dodge

Bisbatron

I disagree with everything you say, on principle.

Bisbatron

I think we should have a way to make it easier.

CassandraGemini

I can totally see the point of what you're asking for, but I have a feeling it's not that simple. If difficulty were to keep adjusting the way it does before the cap at 160 cp, then there would be no cap - probably until 810 cp and for gear purposes that would be a nightmare, since you'd have to wait until you hit max cp to get your final gear.

On the other hand I also don't believe that you can have a seperate "difficulty slider" for everyone, it just wouldn't work out with the megaservers. I would imagine that all people on the same server need to have the same difficulty where the overland content is concerned. For the dungeons, where you can choose between normal and veteran, this is different because they are seperate instances that are limited to you and your group at that particular moment. For overland, I don't think this is possible, however.

theyancey

Just zero your CP points.

redspecter23

If you increase the difficulty of the mobs, isn't that putting a handicap on your character anyway? Your power relative to your target is now lower. The end result is the same as if you equip level 1 gear instead of levle 160 gear. The fight lasts longer.

I suppose it all depends on how you wrap your mind around the situation. For me, if the fight takes longer for any reason, my character has been reduced in power relative to that target, whether the variable changing is my power or its power.

Tasear

I personally think it's just poorly scaled for a proper fitted character. If mobs did just a bit more damage based on cp level then people would find overland combat better.

The issue though is there is a great divide between other players in what people consider properly geared. How do you scale things for people who want wear Mitch match sets, use no food and etc?

dazee

Yeah overland is easy for good reason. another craglorn zone would be nice though. soloing there as a well fitted character's a bit more fun especially the group delves. and as a non well fitted one you can team with a friend or 2.

barney2525

Im confused.

Isn't part of the reason we play this and other games to develop a character that is powerful?

And your complaint is that your character is too powerful?

Nice problem to have.

If you want a challenge, just get married.

8D

AngelFires333

Just take some armor off.
Make yourself less powerful.
Use lower lvl gear in a high lvl zone.
Then you can tweak it to your personal specification.
Rather than poop on the whole game for everyone.

Tasear

dazee wrote: »

Yeah overland is easy for good reason. another craglorn zone would be nice though. soloing there as a well fitted character's a bit more fun especially the group delves. and as a non well fitted one you can team with a friend or 2.

Craglorn wasn't popular for majority of eso players cause we are loners. Just making them have more health harder didn't help. What overland needs in better fighting mobs in a sense of AI and mechs.

kargen27

I look at it this way. My character has defeated or thwarted a multitude of deities and semi-deities. I should be able to glance at a herd of skeevers and have them drop over dead. That is how I justify the easy battles.

Would be fun to be able to toggle up the difficulty though.

The problem being I don't think it is feasible outside of solo instances to scale difficulty by tweaking the evil doers you encounter.

Maybe they could introduce a tainted food your character could munch on that would greatly reduce his/her abilities? Give a couple of choices for tainted food so we could choose how messed up we want to be.

Tasear

kargen27 wrote: »

I look at it this way. My character has defeated or thwarted a multitude of deities and semi-deities. I should be able to glance at a herd of skeevers and have them drop over dead. That is how I justify the easy battles.

Would be fun to be able to toggle up the difficulty though.

The problem being I don't think it is feasible outside of solo instances to scale difficulty by tweaking the evil doers you encounter.

Maybe they could introduce a tainted food your character could munch on that would greatly reduce his/her abilities? Give a couple of choices for tainted food so we could choose how messed up we want to be.

I personally think people just want more engagement in fights. Doesn't necessarily have to be harder but feel more fun.

You know what only thing endgame players can agree on? Questing is boring. The fights are very static.

Mr_Walker

TheDodge wrote: »

Now an argument could be made for "just do it naked", or "reset your CP and attri points", and in practice I imagine this would make combat last longer.
But if i'm expected to artificially weaken my character, and the testing I've put in to make it as strong as it is gone, all to make enemies "stronger", then that defeats the point for me.
All i'm looking for, is actual challenge when questing, from a combat perspective, without having to change the character I've spent so much time building.

So, you went ahead, built the strongest character you could, and now you're complaining that the easiest content in the game is easy? Not only that, but you're pre-rejecting any suggestion that you may want to do something about it yourself?

Yeah, OK.

AcadianPaladin

I like the palette of difficulty I find in the game just fine. Overland is fun and as a fairly decently set up CP810, I enjoy focusing on the area, beauty, music around me when overland and being able to relax knowing that my character can comfortably handle any overland encounters - she's earned that ability and enjoys it. If she wants challenge, she grabs a WB or does a pledge. And she doesn't complain that there are a fair number of challenges in the game she will likely never see since the difficulty is beyond our ability/interest.

I also realize that not all players view overland/questing as easy. With that CP810 over my character's head, she gets asked plenty for help in public dungeons, normal quests and even sometimes delves. As a healer, she gets plenty of practice with her craft in overland areas for young characters who went out seeking danger - and found it.

I don't know what is technically feasible. If players could opt to boost the challenge they face in some areas without impacting the game overall, it would not affect me so that would be fine.

dazee

Tasear wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

Yeah overland is easy for good reason. another craglorn zone would be nice though. soloing there as a well fitted character's a bit more fun especially the group delves. and as a non well fitted one you can team with a friend or 2.

Craglorn wasn't popular for majority of eso players cause we are loners. Just making them have more health harder didn't help. What overland needs in better fighting mobs in a sense of AI and mechs.

Yeah mechanics would definitely be better. ESO could take a page out of some other MMOs as far as mob mechanics go.

kargen27

Tasear wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I look at it this way. My character has defeated or thwarted a multitude of deities and semi-deities. I should be able to glance at a herd of skeevers and have them drop over dead. That is how I justify the easy battles.

Would be fun to be able to toggle up the difficulty though.

The problem being I don't think it is feasible outside of solo instances to scale difficulty by tweaking the evil doers you encounter.

Maybe they could introduce a tainted food your character could munch on that would greatly reduce his/her abilities? Give a couple of choices for tainted food so we could choose how messed up we want to be.

I personally think people just want more engagement in fights. Doesn't necessarily have to be harder but feel more fun.

You know what only thing endgame players can agree on? Questing is boring. The fights are very static.

I'm not sure how you can accomplish more engaging without making them somehow more difficult. They simply don't last long enough to be interesting. Sometimes just for fun I throw one AoE on a mob and see if it will burn them down. Other than that overland encounters are just something I do hoping for that first ever Aetheric Cipher. A lot of assorted creatures have died in my quest for that particular item. The Ogre Toe Ring has also eluded me as I venture across the land. I'm going to keep killing things either way but would be nice if something other than the overland bosses kicked me around a little.

dazee

kargen27 wrote: »

]
I'm not sure how you can accomplish more engaging without making them somehow more difficult. They simply don't last long enough to be interesting. Sometimes just for fun I throw one AoE on a mob and see if it will burn them down. Other than that overland encounters are just something I do hoping for that first ever Aetheric Cipher. A lot of assorted creatures have died in my quest for that particular item. The Ogre Toe Ring has also eluded me as I venture across the land. I'm going to keep killing things either way but would be nice if something other than the overland bosses kicked me around a little.

Pretty sure they meant more difficult but in a way other than just more damage and HP, even most vet dungeons dont add more mechanics to the mix. they just make the existing ones matter more. which is a shame.

MLGProPlayer

theyancey wrote: »

Just zero your CP points.

It costs 3k gold every time you want to do that...

If you quest between dungeon queues/group forming, you're looking at several respecs a day.

MLGProPlayer

Here is an easy way to solve this problem:

Add an optional debuff. This debuff would turn off your CP and lower your gear level to 50.

MLGProPlayer

dazee wrote: »

Yeah overland is easy for good reason. another craglorn zone would be nice though. soloing there as a well fitted character's a bit more fun especially the group delves. and as a non well fitted one you can team with a friend or 2.

Shada's Tear and Skyreach Catacombs (solo) are still my favourite pieces of overland content in the whole game.

Morgha_Kul

I've talked about this very thing elsewhere.

The problem as I see it, is that the game has been designed with too great a range in character capability. That is, there are characters in the game who are challenged by the overland content, and there are those for whom it is utterly trivial. I once asked what was considered decent dps. My character CURRENTLY does somewhere around 10k. There are MANY characters capable of doing as much as 50k.

For me, I can do pretty well any of the overland content, solo, with little danger (not including things like world bosses). I find Public Dungeons challenging to go solo in, and the bosses therein quite challenging. However, I CANNOT compete in PvP, and I cannot do even normal Group Dungeons without getting completely slaughtered, with no real possibility of competing.

There are those for whom even Veteran Dungeons are pretty trivial. For those people, ALL the other content in the game is trivial and pointless... which is why I don't WANT to do more damage, or be more powerful.

But the problem is that it is POSSIBLE to become so powerful that the game is trivialized. In making the game this way, they have created a problem of making content that is challenging to those people... content no one else will be able to do. It's a problem for a lot of games out there. I was playing Star Trek Online tonight and experienced much the same thing. My ship was almost completely unable to harm an enemy ship. Another player, with all the bells and whistles would likely have oneshotted the thing. The devs, in order to create a challenge for that person, had to make the enemy so tough that I couldn't even scratch it. It took me 40 minutes to kill it... something that was meant to be a relatively trivial foe.

The design of the game allows players to become far too strong. There needed to be a system of diminishing returns, to make it more and more difficult to increase the capabilities of the characters. That way, the range of typical dps might go from 10k to 20k instead of 10k to 50k. That would allow more people to be competetive, would allow the devs to make content more accessible to everyone, and would avoid the trivialization of the game in general.

You can do what I do, and just not use the "ideal" gear, stats and/or skills. I play my character with the elements I feel suits who he IS, and use skills that I like, not for their effectiveness, but for their appearance. I don't minmax myself into trivializing the game, and so it's remained more fun for me overall. There's still things I can't do. I can't PvP (and wouldn't in any case). I can't do Veteran content. I can't do Group Dungeons. But, that's my choice. I'd rather be free to do the REST of the game and enjoy it.

The tools are there for you to customize your experience to your taste. I'd rather see them do a universal balancing pass to make it possible for you to tweak to your heart's content while not making it trivialize everything, but I think it's too late for that now.

nofsimus

I stopped reading after your intro paragraph...

"Hey guys,

For those of you who know me, you'll find this very strange to hear, but here it is none the less"

Are you a self proclaimed big deal we should all know about?

Browiseth

personally i enjoy the feeling of having grown stronger through enemies being weaker and weaker than me

isn't that like, the whole reason we're even playing this game 5 years on

Bryath

Agreed 100% OP. Overland/delve combat is so stupidly easy that it was already affecting my enjoyment of questing when my first toon hit level 20ish a couple months ago. This is normally where I would do my questing in areas a few levels higher but that's not an option here.
Running quests with my wife is my favorite thing to do in mmo's, but we haven't run together for a couple weeks now. I don't expect solo content to be a challenge for two, but there's no point in one of us even drawing their weapons. If we're not playing together much, we're much less apt to re-sub when the time comes.

Jeremy

TheDodge wrote: »

Hey guys,

For those of you who know me, you'll find this very strange to hear, but here it is none the less.
I'm a fan of questing in the new content; not vet dungeon quests, or trial quests because to me anyone who is doing that content at a high level, isn't interested in what the constructs are up to .
No i'm talking about your standard zone quests and story lines.
I really enjoy the lore and the dialogue (to an extent).
However my problem comes when I need to go somewhere, or do something in which the quest design puts enemies in front of me to break up the mass amount of dialogue and information thrown at me.
Now I appreciate this and it makes sense as to why it's done and I love the combat system.
HOWEVER
That combat system lasts about 2 seconds per enemy and I don't see my health bar budge.
What i'm looking for is some form of instanced "difficulty modifier" in order to make that break between dialogue A) be long enough for a break, and B ) allow me to actually see the mechanics of enemies and enjoy the character I've built in all of it's DPS and survival glory.
Now an argument could be made for "just do it naked", or "reset your CP and attri points", and in practice I imagine this would make combat last longer.
But if i'm expected to artificially weaken my character, and the testing I've put in to make it as strong as it is gone, all to make enemies "stronger", then that defeats the point for me.
All i'm looking for, is actual challenge when questing, from a combat perspective, without having to change the character I've spent so much time building.
Now whether this means that my characters resources and damage are scaled down to make enemies "stronger" or whether enemies themselves are made healthier and stronger, is up to the devs ofc.
But all i'm asking for, is to enjoy all the features of the game (sets, CP, attri points, etc), but also not one shotting every enemy with a crit crystal frags.
Hopefully I've put across what I'm looking for clearly and would be interested to hear others thoughts on this and possibly ZOS reps.

Peace,

~Dodge

A lot of us have been complaining about this. It's a shame one of the best parts of this game (questing/exploration) isn't nearly as fun as it could be due to ridiculously easy enemies.

My proposed solution would be to introduce veteran zones (they already do this with dungeons). That way high level characters can have fun questing too because you're right - it's just stupidly easy right now and it saps a lot of the fun away. Even my tank can crush most enemies in a few seconds and my healer and DPS slaughter near everything almost instantly. Why would anyone bother to group up to fight such wimpy enemies? World bosses are really the only thing that provides even a modest challenge to solo these days.

MartiniDaniels

There is no point to reduce your damage it will only make it more tedious and boring.
Try to remove all healing abilities, shields etc and use maxresource/regen food. That way you will land in ~ 11k HP and without healing, mobs will actually have some chance to kill you if you will ignore aoe, heavy attacks etc

Bisbatron

Dodge, so I hear you're a self proclaimed big deal?

Tasear

dazee wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

Yeah overland is easy for good reason. another craglorn zone would be nice though. soloing there as a well fitted character's a bit more fun especially the group delves. and as a non well fitted one you can team with a friend or 2.

Craglorn wasn't popular for majority of eso players cause we are loners. Just making them have more health harder didn't help. What overland needs in better fighting mobs in a sense of AI and mechs.

Yeah mechanics would definitely be better. ESO could take a page out of some other MMOs as far as mob mechanics go.

Not sure if it's something they could actually fix. In fact it would be very dangerous if they messed up this balance. Most people enjoy solo questing experience. I know wierd but it's truth.

starkerealm

Tasear wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

Yeah overland is easy for good reason. another craglorn zone would be nice though. soloing there as a well fitted character's a bit more fun especially the group delves. and as a non well fitted one you can team with a friend or 2.

Craglorn wasn't popular for majority of eso players cause we are loners. Just making them have more health harder didn't help. What overland needs in better fighting mobs in a sense of AI and mechs.

It was a bit more complicated than that. Originally, Craglorn required that you get a team together, and then keep that team together for your time there. You couldn't go back and help someone with content you'd already cleared. So you needed people that were exactly at the same place in the quest line as you.

There were some exceptions, but that zone was really awkward to get into, especially for when it came out in the game's life cycle. There weren't a lot of v10s back then. So, instead of being story content, Craglorn was all about the scorpion grind for ages.

ArchMikem

Make it optional and i dont care. Make it harder for everyone and we have a problem.