Noxious Breath still underperforming

Sleep724

Why is this skill still so weak? It’s dot damage is outclassed by 2h and dual wield passives, misses half the time and costs more than venomous claw which does more damage. Let’s not even mention the abysmally low initial hit damage it does. Even the magicka morph, fiery breath is better, giving 8% more flame damage to the target.

When I think of a dragon using its breath on an enemy they usually don’t laugh from the tickling they’re getting...

C’mon Zos and Stam DK class reps, whomever you are, let’s get this skill some TLC. It is the Season of the Dragon after all...

kyle.wilson

Noxious breath is an extremely lethal skill when used properly. Since I run proc free builds, dots are key to maintain pressure in a fight.

Sleep724

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Noxious breath is an extremely lethal skill when used properly. Since I run proc free builds, dots are key to maintain pressure in a fight.

Used properly? Do you mean with the major fracture it gives? Because if so Shalks gives major fracture but with ultimate-like tooltip damage. Breath isn’t even on the same level.

kyle.wilson

I can hit at a high rate with breath. Unless im being xv1'd I rarely find myself in the path of shalks. its an easily predicted move.
But, you obviously don't understand the advantage of layering dots over direct damage.
Its like saying that Snipe is the best skill for PVE because of that tooltip. I use dots heavily to enhance my ability to pressure with direct damage. Newer players tend to overreact and expose themselves when dots are layered.

dazee

I always thought Noxious breath was mainly for the big debuff it applies. I use that then go to town with my other attacks.

Sleep724

kyle.wilson wrote: »

I can hit at a high rate with breath. Unless im being xv1'd I rarely find myself in the path of shalks. its an easily predicted move.
But, you obviously don't understand the advantage of layering dots over direct damage.
Its like saying that Snipe is the best skill for PVE because of that tooltip. I use dots heavily to enhance my ability to pressure with direct damage. Newer players tend to overreact and expose themselves when dots are layered.

Well in that case... You obviously don’t know about the advantage of burst damage in pvp. Of which Shalks is and noxious most definitely is not. Dots do not bring down a group of players especially if they have purge but burst does. And noxious’ initial hit and dot damage is PATHETIC. Layer dots all you want but this skill other than major fracture is hardly making a difference.

BlackMadara

Sleep724 wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

I can hit at a high rate with breath. Unless im being xv1'd I rarely find myself in the path of shalks. its an easily predicted move.
But, you obviously don't understand the advantage of layering dots over direct damage.
Its like saying that Snipe is the best skill for PVE because of that tooltip. I use dots heavily to enhance my ability to pressure with direct damage. Newer players tend to overreact and expose themselves when dots are layered.

Well in that case... You obviously don’t know about the advantage of burst damage in pvp. Of which Shalks is and noxious most definitely is not. Dots do not bring down a group of players especially if they have purge but burst does. And noxious’ initial hit and dot damage is PATHETIC. Layer dots all you want but this skill other than major fracture is hardly making a difference.

Noxious breath doesnt do much damage on it's own, but it is still a useful source of fracture if solo. My sDK does more damage with noxious breath than venomous claw, solely due to the debuff allowing my combo to hit harder.

Brrrofski

I try this every once in a while on my dk in PvP.

Then after half an hour realise it never ever hits in PvP. Bad coding, bad lag... Who knows.

I then take it off for ransack if I'm s&b or something else like trap or flame of oblivion if I'm not.

Onefrkncrzypope

Breath has no unique or even subtle benefit. It's a dps loss for any build including a dot build. Heck it isn't even an aoe fracture. You can barely hit one person.

Toc de Malsvi

Brrrofski wrote: »

I try this every once in a while on my dk in PvP.

Then after half an hour realise it never ever hits in PvP. Bad coding, bad lag... Who knows.

I then take it off for ransack if I'm s&b or something else like trap or flame of oblivion if I'm not.

It suffers from the same cone effect as Acid Spray, it is casted based oh character facing not based on targetting reticle position. For most targets it simply requires moving away from the target and turn back to try and encourage/force the target to close back towards you. When they close the gap you cast Noxious and it will generally apply.

For anyone moving laterally it will generally miss due to the cone effect based on character facing. But it can be landed if you work on kiting opponents into running at you.

Opening up the cone can definitely improve the ability to land this skillmore reliably with less effort, and has been suggested many times. So far Zos has chosen to do nothing.

Toc de Malsvi

1v1 I find it easier to land Noxious than Shalks simply because the lack of burst makes opponents much less likely to try and avoid it. However Noxious does feel a bit weak, but the Major Fracture+Small Dot is quite noticeable and useful if you layer other damage sources on top.

It is completely outclassed by bleeds though as a dot mechanic even with Major Fracture. The issue I find most often is players are using it with Bleeds which the Major Fracture doesn't benefit as well as using Corrosive which also nullifies the Major Fracture.

If you try Poison Injection+ Venomous Claw+ AcidSpray+ Ballista+ proc set, I think you will find you greatly miss the Major Fracture from Noxious. To be clear I'm not suggesting everyone runs that kind of setup or even should. I'm just suggesting a lot of builds using bleeds are not getting the most out of Major Fracture from Noxious.

sneakymitchell

Better debuff than warden’s shalk since I think shalk is 4 or 5 sec duration and noxious is the whole duration. Plus it’s great for getting rid of cloak spamming players since the cost is pretty cheap and enough regen you can spam it more than cleave or steel tornado.

sneakymitchell

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

1v1 I find it easier to land Noxious than Shalks simply because the lack of burst makes opponents much less likely to try and avoid it. However Noxious does feel a bit weak, but the Major Fracture+Small Dot is quite noticeable and useful if you layer other damage sources on top.

It is completely outclassed by bleeds though as a dot mechanic even with Major Fracture. The issue I find most often is players are using it with Bleeds which the Major Fracture doesn't benefit as well as using Corrosive which also nullifies the Major Fracture.

If you try Poison Injection+ Venomous Claw+ AcidSpray+ Ballista+ proc set, I think you will find you greatly miss the Major Fracture from Noxious. To be clear I'm not suggesting everyone runs that kind of setup or even should. I'm just suggesting a lot of builds using bleeds are not getting the most out of Major Fracture from Noxious.

That’s why they increase the sword damage since no one uses it like maces. If Stam DK would still had the 6% poison aoe I’m sure players won’t complain much since you get an extra 6% for the initial hit and DoT but that all change so.

Alucardo

Other than the hitbox being weird it's a powerful skill.

Sleep724

Alucardo wrote: »

Other than the hitbox being weird it's a powerful skill.

Other than major fracture it’s mediocre at best. Again, it’s outclassed by bleeds and all the other Stam class skills, POTL, jabs, surprise attack, birds, shalks. And playing stam warden I’ve never had a difficult time landing Shalks.

If Stam DK is not going to get a Stam whip or another stamina skill, then this one skill, out of only 2, needs improvement.

Ragnarock41

Alucardo wrote: »

Other than the hitbox being weird it's a powerful skill.

Directly inferior compared to suprise attack, pierce armor, sub assault. All these abilities provide the same debuff but doesn't suck as bad in terms of raw damage.

Noxious breath is not at all a powerful skill. Its just mediocre skill with low damage, clunky small cone and an important debuff attached to it to justify its existance. Even if it always magically hit the target, I would slot something else over it.

Alucardo

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Other than the hitbox being weird it's a powerful skill.

Directly inferior compared to suprise attack, pierce armor, sub assault.

Noxious breath is not at all a powerful skill. Its just mediocre. Even if it always magically hit the target, I would always slot something else over it.

surprise attack, pierce armor, and sub assault are primary damage abilities, so of course they are going to be stronger. Noxious is just an aoe debuff with a small DoT attached - it's not made for big damage.

Ragnarock41

Alucardo wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Other than the hitbox being weird it's a powerful skill.

Directly inferior compared to suprise attack, pierce armor, sub assault.

Noxious breath is not at all a powerful skill. Its just mediocre. Even if it always magically hit the target, I would always slot something else over it.

surprise attack, pierce armor, and sub assault are primary damage abilities, so of course they are going to be stronger. Noxious is just an aoe debuff with a small DoT attached - it's not made for big damage.

Comical really. What you just said goes against your own first post. You just called the thing powerful and now you are back pedalling already.

If its the debuff that is strong and is the main selling point(which is true), then how can you define suprise attack or sub assault in comparission? Coming with the same debuff yet way higher damage?

On a scale that puts noxious at powerful, where would you put the rest? Im very curious actually.

Alucardo

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Other than the hitbox being weird it's a powerful skill.

Directly inferior compared to suprise attack, pierce armor, sub assault.

Noxious breath is not at all a powerful skill. Its just mediocre. Even if it always magically hit the target, I would always slot something else over it.

surprise attack, pierce armor, and sub assault are primary damage abilities, so of course they are going to be stronger. Noxious is just an aoe debuff with a small DoT attached - it's not made for big damage.

Comical really. What you just said goes against your own first post. You just called the thing powerful and now you are back pedalling already.

If its the debuff that is strong and is the main selling point(which is true), then how can you define suprise attack or sub assault in comparission? Coming with the same debuff yet way higher damage?

On a scale that puts noxious at powerful, where would you put the rest? Im very curious actually.

Being powerful doesn't necessarily mean it will deal godlike damage. Why the hell do people expect every single skill in the game to be OP? Why can't it just have an aoe debuff and DoT. Jesus christ man. Noxious does not need a buff.

Ragnarock41

Alucardo wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Other than the hitbox being weird it's a powerful skill.

Directly inferior compared to suprise attack, pierce armor, sub assault.

Noxious breath is not at all a powerful skill. Its just mediocre. Even if it always magically hit the target, I would always slot something else over it.

surprise attack, pierce armor, and sub assault are primary damage abilities, so of course they are going to be stronger. Noxious is just an aoe debuff with a small DoT attached - it's not made for big damage.

Comical really. What you just said goes against your own first post. You just called the thing powerful and now you are back pedalling already.

If its the debuff that is strong and is the main selling point(which is true), then how can you define suprise attack or sub assault in comparission? Coming with the same debuff yet way higher damage?

On a scale that puts noxious at powerful, where would you put the rest? Im very curious actually.

Being powerful doesn't necessarily mean it will deal godlike damage. Why the hell do people expect every single skill in the game to be OP? Why can't it just have an aoe debuff and DoT. Jesus christ man. Noxious does not need a buff.

When did I say I want noxious to be sub assault levels of strong? You are the one coming here and telling people that an ability that hits people for 350 damage every 2 seconds is "powerful" and expect to be taken seriously?

I dont want unneccessary buffs to anything but I also dont want to slot literal equal of garbage on my bar just so I can have major fracture. Put it on claws, increase its cost accordingly, let me have something actually helpful on my bar instead.

As for your Dk hate its getting soo out of control to a point you are crying over literally noxious breath.

Alucardo

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Other than the hitbox being weird it's a powerful skill.

Directly inferior compared to suprise attack, pierce armor, sub assault.

Noxious breath is not at all a powerful skill. Its just mediocre. Even if it always magically hit the target, I would always slot something else over it.

surprise attack, pierce armor, and sub assault are primary damage abilities, so of course they are going to be stronger. Noxious is just an aoe debuff with a small DoT attached - it's not made for big damage.

Comical really. What you just said goes against your own first post. You just called the thing powerful and now you are back pedalling already.

If its the debuff that is strong and is the main selling point(which is true), then how can you define suprise attack or sub assault in comparission? Coming with the same debuff yet way higher damage?

On a scale that puts noxious at powerful, where would you put the rest? Im very curious actually.

Being powerful doesn't necessarily mean it will deal godlike damage. Why the hell do people expect every single skill in the game to be OP? Why can't it just have an aoe debuff and DoT. Jesus christ man. Noxious does not need a buff.

When did I say I want noxious to be sub assault levels of strong? You are the one coming here and telling people that an ability that hits people for 350 damage every 2 seconds is "powerful" and expect to be taken seriously?

I dont want unneccessary buffs to anything but I also dont want to slot literal equal of garbage on my bar just so I can have major fracture. Put it on claws, increase its cost accordingly, let me have something actually helpful on my bar instead.

As for your Dk hate its getting soo out of control to a point you are crying over literally noxious breath.

I think noxious is fine and that counts as dk hate? lmao. I'm not sure I'm the one crying mate. Anyway, before this gets any more off track I'm going to check out. I'm sorry for having an opinion and disagreeing.

#DKHate4lyfe

dazee

If noxious needs a buff at all the buff should be to the aoe zone it hits, not anything else, to address the issues people have with actually hitting stuff with it.

Alucardo

dazee wrote: »

If noxious needs a buff at all the buff should be to the aoe zone it hits, not anything else, to address the issues people have with actually hitting stuff with it.

Yeah, as I mentioned the hitbox is super janky. I've no problem with them fixing that up. A lot of the time it can just be wasted stamina when it misses everything you're aiming at...

Onefrkncrzypope

It's barely over 1k dps on a dummy. It's a pretty weak dot. Though one could try to argue the aoe fracture but it's way to hard to hit most targets. It is even broken. It consumes the vma dw buff even though and aoe. I think it scales with maa. I mean it's weak hard to land and doesn't provide a unique debuff. It's time for a small buff in some form. Not op but since the dk has two Stam morphs it's kinda sad that most SDKs drop it in pve and it's hard to justify in PvP

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

1v1 I find it easier to land Noxious than Shalks simply because the lack of burst makes opponents much less likely to try and avoid it. However Noxious does feel a bit weak, but the Major Fracture+Small Dot is quite noticeable and useful if you layer other damage sources on top.

It is completely outclassed by bleeds though as a dot mechanic even with Major Fracture. The issue I find most often is players are using it with Bleeds which the Major Fracture doesn't benefit as well as using Corrosive which also nullifies the Major Fracture.

If you try Poison Injection+ Venomous Claw+ AcidSpray+ Ballista+ proc set, I think you will find you greatly miss the Major Fracture from Noxious. To be clear I'm not suggesting everyone runs that kind of setup or even should. I'm just suggesting a lot of builds using bleeds are not getting the most out of Major Fracture from Noxious.

That’s why they increase the sword damage since no one uses it like maces. If Stam DK would still had the 6% poison aoe I’m sure players won’t complain much since you get an extra 6% for the initial hit and DoT but that all change so.

Zos upped the damage done percentage on swords because all damage done percentages are floored, meaning that if you used one sword with dual wield, instead of "2.5%" increase to damage, you only got "2%". No other reason than that.

Hotdog_23

Noxious breath needs both a small buff and a much better hit box.

Sleep724

dazee wrote: »

If noxious needs a buff at all the buff should be to the aoe zone it hits, not anything else, to address the issues people have with actually hitting stuff with it.

I’m curious as to you’re reasoning why you think this skill only needs the hit box to be buffed. Is the 1k or less initial hit damage too much? Or the 300-400 damage every 2 seconds too much?

It’s underperforming compared to any other similar skill. Not looking for it to be op, just more useful.

Ragnarock41

[quote= wrote:

Noxious breath needs both a small buff and a much better hit box.

rather than increased range a better hitbox would be much welcome, I agree.