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When will be removed from the game opportunity of detecting shadow from potions?
That's the biggest problem for nb. I can't understand, why any player has such an opportunity to remove shadow of nightblade. This is without warning at my screen or similar thing.
Can I remove the shield from magica sorc after drinking the potion? No? Then why other players have such an advantage over nb?
Edited by digitallego on March 23, 2019 7:09AM Can I remove the shield from magica sorc after drinking the potion? No? Then why other players have such an advantage over nb?
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jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Unlike shields, cloak completely negates targeting, and gives the NB absolute control over when and where they reemerge if a counter isn't used, which allows the NB to disengage and reengage whenever they want. It also forces projectiles to miss, and suppresses any previously applied DOTs, while the NB is in cloak.
It sucks that your only form of defense has counters like this, but if you want such a strong defense, the counters need to be equally as strong.16 -
kerthas✭✭✭ye, Like jcm says. So basically never. The question to ask is when this skill is really gonna be nerfed?Edited by kerthas on March 23, 2019 8:32AM4
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Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah, no. It's already stupid how as a stamblade I use det potions the most out of any potion. Rely on other forms of defense than cloak and you will be fine.Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.1 -
Omg. silly answers again.
Guys, i didn't ask a question about "What are you using? / Like or unlike you this skill?" I asked the question when they will remove these benefits at the level of cheat code. This class have certain, clearly made by developers style of game - this is robber in the shadow.
Whether you like it or not, just learn to play against the NB (especially magica nb is now much weaker than a sorcerer or stam nb). The question is, when will this be removed?
This was introduced as a concession to low-level players. And it breaks pvp mechanics.3 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭digitallego wrote: »Omg. silly answers again.
Guys, i didn't ask a question about "What are you using? / Like or unlike you this skill?" I asked the question when they will remove these benefits at the level of cheat code. This class have certain, clearly made by developers style of game - this is robber in the shadow.
Whether you like it or not, just learn to play against the NB (especially magica nb is now much weaker than a sorcerer or stam nb). The question is, when will this be removed?
This was introduced as a concession to low-level players. And it breaks pvp mechanics.
And the answer is, when they rework cloak to not be as strong without counters. Want a strong defensive skill? Deal with the strong counters. It's that simple, and no amount of whining is going to change it.Edited by jcm2606 on March 23, 2019 10:02AM5 -
KhajiitFelix✭✭✭✭✭So you want nightblades avoid all types of damage without counters? Then that skill would require no skill to use.2
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Ankael07✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭digitallego wrote: »Omg. silly answers again.
Guys, i didn't ask a question about "What are you using? / Like or unlike you this skill?" I asked the question when they will remove these benefits at the level of cheat code. This class have certain, clearly made by developers style of game - this is robber in the shadow.
Whether you like it or not, just learn to play against the NB (especially magica nb is now much weaker than a sorcerer or stam nb). The question is, when will this be removed?
This was introduced as a concession to low-level players. And it breaks pvp mechanics.
Youre asking ZoS to remove detect potions then telling people to learn to play...?If you want me to reply to your comment type @Ankael07 in it.6 -
digitallego wrote: »Omg. silly answers again.
Guys, i didn't ask a question about "What are you using? / Like or unlike you this skill?" I asked the question when they will remove these benefits at the level of cheat code. This class have certain, clearly made by developers style of game - this is robber in the shadow.
Whether you like it or not, just learn to play against the NB (especially magica nb is now much weaker than a sorcerer or stam nb). The question is, when will this be removed?
This was introduced as a concession to low-level players. And it breaks pvp mechanics.
And the answer is, when they rework cloak to not be as strong without counters. Want a strong defensive skill? Deal with the strong counters. It's that simple, and no amount of whining is going to change it.
Yammer has been during in the start of this thread. A thread is not about that. If you cannot play against magica nb without potion then you should learn to playKhajiitFelix wrote: »So you want nightblades avoid all types of damage without counters? Then that skill would require no skill to use.
You can remove shadow if making any aoe damage. All classes have AOE damage. Sorcs has shield, Dk has wings.
These skills cannot be controlled. Why should a shadow be controlled? Also, why should I spend magica when a shadow is knocked down if I don’t know that another player seeing me. Why is this skill not deactivated at the time when the shadow is removed? This is an imbalance and squalor of pvp mechanics.1 -
Sheuib✭✭✭✭digitallego wrote: »Omg. silly answers again.
Guys, i didn't ask a question about "What are you using? / Like or unlike you this skill?" I asked the question when they will remove these benefits at the level of cheat code. This class have certain, clearly made by developers style of game - this is robber in the shadow.
Whether you like it or not, just learn to play against the NB (especially magica nb is now much weaker than a sorcerer or stam nb). The question is, when will this be removed?
This was introduced as a concession to low-level players. And it breaks pvp mechanics.
LOL2 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yammer has been during in the start of this thread. A thread is not about that. If you cannot play against magica nb without potion then you should learn to play
You asked when a counter would be removed, I said when cloak gets changed to not be so strong without counters. You didn't like the answer, not much I can do about that, so just accept it and move on.
Also, I don't need a potion to help me against magNB, but that doesn't mean the counter shouldn't exist, especially for something as strong as cloak.You can remove shadow if making any aoe damage. All classes have AOE damage. Sorcs has shield, Dk has wings.
These skills cannot be controlled. Why should a shadow be controlled? Also, why should I spend magica when a shadow is knocked down if I don’t know that another player seeing me. Why is this skill not deactivated at the time when the shadow is removed? This is an imbalance and squalor of pvp mechanics.
You're comparing apples, oranges and pears. Shields merely absorb damage, and can be punched through quite easily. Wings only reflects projectiles, has exceptions, has a flat projectile cap of 4, and occasionally lets a projectile through. Again, cloak completely negates targeting, forces any in-flight projectiles to miss, suppresses dots, allows you to disengage and reengage whenever you like, and allows for regeneration of resources while invisible. Which one is the strongest?
As for magicka cost, literally every defensive ability incurs the same cost when countered. You still eat the full cost of shields, even after they're depleted (with the exception of the light armour shield, which returns a portion of the magicka). You still eat the full cost of wings, even if they drop literally half a second after you cast them. Cloak isn't special, it's just how the game punishes you for being countered.Edited by jcm2606 on March 23, 2019 10:40AM3 -
You're comparing apples, oranges and pears. .
I compared pvp mechanics and not oranges and pears. Shadow main skill in class NB. He've enough cost. The fact that you do not like the benefits of the shadow - only your problems. The shadow is and will be and no one will nerf it exactly, in the complex it offers no more advantages than wings or shields
Edited by digitallego on March 23, 2019 10:45AM1 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭digitallego wrote: »You're comparing apples, oranges and pears. .
I compared pvp mechanics and not oranges and pears. Shadow main skill in class NB. He've enough cost. The fact that you do not like the benefits of the shadow - only your problems. The shadow is and will be and no one will nerf it exactly, in the complex it offers no more advantages than wings or shields
Unfortunately, that's the reality of PVP. You have to make sure everything is balanced, else you end up with things being too strong and ruining everybody else's fun.
At the end of the day, whether you like the counter or not doesn't matter if you can't suggest an alternative. The counter exists for a reason, so there must be an alternative if Zenimax were to remove it. It's between either nerfing cloak, or introducing some other counter. Choice is your's.
If you can't see past that, this conversation is more or less done.Edited by jcm2606 on March 23, 2019 10:50AM1 -
digitallego wrote: »You're comparing apples, oranges and pears. .
I compared pvp mechanics and not oranges and pears. Shadow main skill in class NB. He've enough cost. The fact that you do not like the benefits of the shadow - only your problems. The shadow is and will be and no one will nerf it exactly, in the complex it offers no more advantages than wings or shields
Unfortunately, that's the reality of PVP. You have to make sure everything is balanced, else you end up with things being too strong and ruining everybody else's fun.
At the end of the day, whether you like the counter or not doesn't matter if you can't suggest an alternative. The counter exists for a reason, so there must be an alternative if Zenimax were to remove it. It's between either nerfing cloak, or introducing some other counter. Choice is your's.
If you can't see past that, this conversation is more or less done.
Ok, I understood your point several messages before(if you want to talk to someone from loneliness, then here is not the best place)
I would like to see a comment from a developer or something like that. This is not a balance, but a curve of the realization of a concession to low-skill players.Edited by digitallego on March 23, 2019 10:58AM0 -
kerthas✭✭✭digitallego wrote: »You're comparing apples, oranges and pears. .
I compared pvp mechanics and not oranges and pears. Shadow main skill in class NB. He've enough cost. The fact that you do not like the benefits of the shadow - only your problems. The shadow is and will be and no one will nerf it exactly, in the complex it offers no more advantages than wings or shields
You don't understand really. Every defense skill class need to have a counter, other than skill. Atm the counter of shieldd is oblivion dmg (enchant, shieldbreaker, sload), dk is wings, but it absob only projectil, it doesnt protect you against any other kind of dmg, its not thats strong in open world. Templar is cleanse and breathe of life, but apply major defile and minor defile constantly, and you got your kill, warden same ***.
Magicka nb is sure not the strongest class atm, one of the weaker one, but cloak is the strongest skill of any other class. Specially on stamnb which is the strongest class atm. The cost of it is ridiculous. You can easely avoid detect pot or any other kind of detection. So no it doesnt need a buff or anykind of nerf who in favor of this skill.Edited by kerthas on March 23, 2019 11:12AM0 -
You can easely avoid detect pot or any other kind of detection.digitallego wrote: »You're comparing apples, oranges and pears. .
I compared pvp mechanics and not oranges and pears. Shadow main skill in class NB. He've enough cost. The fact that you do not like the benefits of the shadow - only your problems. The shadow is and will be and no one will nerf it exactly, in the complex it offers no more advantages than wings or shields
This means that you're bad player. Sorry but for good player remove shadow by means of AOE damage too easy.
So the shadow depends on the resources, but it is expensive and not infinite. It's simple, just play for several classes including magica nb and you will understand everything.Edited by digitallego on March 23, 2019 11:20AM1 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭digitallego wrote: »
You can easely avoid detect pot or any other kind of detection.digitallego wrote: »You're comparing apples, oranges and pears. .
I compared pvp mechanics and not oranges and pears. Shadow main skill in class NB. He've enough cost. The fact that you do not like the benefits of the shadow - only your problems. The shadow is and will be and no one will nerf it exactly, in the complex it offers no more advantages than wings or shields
This means that you're bad player. Sorry but for good player remove shadow by means of AOE damage too easy.
So the shadow depends on the resources, but it is expensive and not infinite. It's simple, just play for several classes including magica nb and you will understand everything.
I play magblade and I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Anyway, as I've said in other threads, have you actually tried using shadow image? IMHO it's better than cloak because you can disengage without having to worry about getting pulled out of stealth.
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StShoot✭✭✭✭digitallego wrote: »
You can easely avoid detect pot or any other kind of detection.digitallego wrote: »You're comparing apples, oranges and pears. .
I compared pvp mechanics and not oranges and pears. Shadow main skill in class NB. He've enough cost. The fact that you do not like the benefits of the shadow - only your problems. The shadow is and will be and no one will nerf it exactly, in the complex it offers no more advantages than wings or shields
This means that you're bad player. Sorry but for good player remove shadow by means of AOE damage too easy.
So the shadow depends on the resources, but it is expensive and not infinite. It's simple, just play for several classes including magica nb and you will understand everything.
No That means you are a bad player, sorry. You die to a detect pot ? you know that thing has a ridiculous (short) range ? just sacrifice one more slot and equip shadow image and you can deal with ANYTHING that could detect you.
Calling other players bad and tell them to adapt, while you cant change your playstyle, patheticEdited by StShoot on March 23, 2019 12:14PM7 -
kerthas✭✭✭digitallego wrote: ».
This means that you're bad player. Sorry but for good player remove shadow by means of AOE damage too easy.
So the shadow depends on the resources, but it is expensive and not infinite. It's simple, just play for several classes including magica nb and you will understand everything.
ye i'm bad ofc, that must be it
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digitallego wrote: »
You can easely avoid detect pot or any other kind of detection.digitallego wrote: »You're comparing apples, oranges and pears. .
I compared pvp mechanics and not oranges and pears. Shadow main skill in class NB. He've enough cost. The fact that you do not like the benefits of the shadow - only your problems. The shadow is and will be and no one will nerf it exactly, in the complex it offers no more advantages than wings or shields
This means that you're bad player. Sorry but for good player remove shadow by means of AOE damage too easy.
So the shadow depends on the resources, but it is expensive and not infinite. It's simple, just play for several classes including magica nb and you will understand everything.
No That means you are a bad player, sorry. You die to a detect pot ? you know that thing has a ridiculous (short) range ? just sacrifice one more slot and equip shadow image and you can deal with ANYTHING that could detect you.
Calling other players bad and tell them to adapt, while you cant change your playstyle, pathetic
LMAO. stop flooding, get out of here.
Masters of pvp who cannot knock down a shadow without a potion tells me that I have to change something, just lol)).
In my experience, potions are used by bad players. Does it offend you, guy? Ok, don't cry here.
Incidentally curious observation; potions use noobs nb to detect other nb and cheat to kill themEdited by digitallego on March 23, 2019 1:09PM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Unlike shields, cloak completely negates targeting, and gives the NB absolute control over when and where they reemerge if a counter isn't used, which allows the NB to disengage and reengage whenever they want. It also forces projectiles to miss, and suppresses any previously applied DOTs, while the NB is in cloak.
It sucks that your only form of defense has counters like this, but if you want such a strong defense, the counters need to be equally as strong.
I agree with this as someone who hunts NBs using cloak. Often on a mNB but also on a mSorc and sPlar. (it is fun)
Cloak is a great skill and the counters are also great. The two together create the balance needed. Otherwise cloak would be a truly OP skill.1 -
Gretzel✭✭✭digitallego wrote: »Omg. silly answers again.
Guys, i didn't ask a question about "What are you using? / Like or unlike you this skill?" I asked the question when they will remove these benefits at the level of cheat code. This class have certain, clearly made by developers style of game - this is robber in the shadow.
Whether you like it or not, just learn to play against the NB (especially magica nb is now much weaker than a sorcerer or stam nb). The question is, when will this be removed?
This was introduced as a concession to low-level players. And it breaks pvp mechanics.
Class is already cancerous enough. Deal with a counter to one of their strengths. I don't get to drop 16k executes on people as a healer. If you want to cry l2p at people, go play every class in the game and learn them all thoroughly like I'm stressing to do. I don't even think the cloak ability is anything crazy. Throwing out l2p in a game with luck-based proc sets and spam is funny anyway.Edited by Gretzel on March 23, 2019 1:52PMSorc dps / DK tank / Templar healer - Xbox NA - Black Marsh Legion - cp 2700 -
Ayastigi✭✭✭✭Nothing funnier than popping a detect and watching a nightblade try to cloak away as you burst them down hahaha.3
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technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OPs trolling but it just makes them look bad that they can't deal with detect pots and think they get no warning.2 -
darkblue5✭✭✭✭✭digitallego wrote: »
You can easely avoid detect pot or any other kind of detection.digitallego wrote: »You're comparing apples, oranges and pears. .
I compared pvp mechanics and not oranges and pears. Shadow main skill in class NB. He've enough cost. The fact that you do not like the benefits of the shadow - only your problems. The shadow is and will be and no one will nerf it exactly, in the complex it offers no more advantages than wings or shields
This means that you're bad player. Sorry but for good player remove shadow by means of AOE damage too easy.
So the shadow depends on the resources, but it is expensive and not infinite. It's simple, just play for several classes including magica nb and you will understand everything.
I play magblade and I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Anyway, as I've said in other threads, have you actually tried using shadow image? IMHO it's better than cloak because you can disengage without having to worry about getting pulled out of stealth.
How are you getting shadow image to not just wiff often enough to trust it? Just fight on level playing fields XD? Joking but IMO that's the only time it consistently works. Fails more often than Temporal Guard/Precognition which fail to fire let alone save me a good 50% of the time.0 -
OPs trolling but it just makes them look bad that they can't deal with detect pots and think they get no warning.
Troll is just you? If I am a troll, then you'd better pass by than go to the thread and express your invaluable opinion. I hope moderator to clean the thread from flooding.Edited by digitallego on March 23, 2019 3:15PM0 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭digitallego wrote: »digitallego wrote: »You're comparing apples, oranges and pears. .
I compared pvp mechanics and not oranges and pears. Shadow main skill in class NB. He've enough cost. The fact that you do not like the benefits of the shadow - only your problems. The shadow is and will be and no one will nerf it exactly, in the complex it offers no more advantages than wings or shields
Unfortunately, that's the reality of PVP. You have to make sure everything is balanced, else you end up with things being too strong and ruining everybody else's fun.
At the end of the day, whether you like the counter or not doesn't matter if you can't suggest an alternative. The counter exists for a reason, so there must be an alternative if Zenimax were to remove it. It's between either nerfing cloak, or introducing some other counter. Choice is your's.
If you can't see past that, this conversation is more or less done.
Ok, I understood your point several messages before(if you want to talk to someone from loneliness, then here is not the best place)
I would like to see a comment from a developer or something like that. This is not a balance, but a curve of the realization of a concession to low-skill players.
It is veeeeeeeeeeeery unlikely, that a dev will comment in here. A simple post like this one, which surely already is invaded with bait and troll comments, will not catch the eye of a dev.
An detect pots will stay in the game for probably quite a long time. If detect pots need a rework/removal, then first of the nbs skill cloak needs a rework, which again would force a general nb class rework. So no detect pots removal in sight any time soon and that is good.1
This discussion has been closed.