Alliance War (Not a complaint thread so don't complain here)
Jabbs_Giggity
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After reading through the many threads and comments on current PVP performance (focused on open world Cyrodiil/Alliance War) here are some ideas that IMO would benefit the current servers with a healthier state of PVP play. These suggestions are meant for gameplay changes, rather than performance changes because ZOS gave up on those years ago…
Right now, Alliance War has become extremely frustrating for new and elite PVPers mainly because of a few things that have already been address within multiple threads in the forum, so I will not detail in depth:
1. Zergs
2. Performance
3. Balancing – Sets and/or Classes
4. Alliance swapping
What are some ways to improve Cyrodiil and make it fun to play again? Let’s look at some ideas.
1. Redesign Alliance War. How? Create new guidelines for movement of siege. Instead of “carrying” large siege per character, implement an “order siege” option near an enemy keep/outpost. The way this could work is that you are able to carry out battle orders which are UI implemented based on your current owned network. For example, for EP to begin siege on Chalman they must have ownership of Arrius, Kings Crest and Farragut (each keep contributes a different effect of siege). Once the siege is ordered, NPC’s of the alliance bring siege and set it up at the location ordered based on the current level of the three mentioned keeps. The higher tier your home keeps are, the better the siege and number of sieges is.
This can prevent sieging “behind enemy lines” keeps with a quick turnover by have 30+ people because you would only have access to small siege weapons carried that do less damage to keeps.
2. For Defensive measure, have siege set up the same way with “Defensive orders” where NPC’s contribute to sieging the enemy instead of just standing there spitting spells.
3. Faction lock Campaigns…A great way to do this requires some details. I can bet 100% that there isn’t a person playing ESO that would not agree that Faction makes absolutely zero difference on PVE zones, right? Instead of “choosing” which faction to play for at character selection, you basically start in the zones that were originally assigned to the Race. Factions become important upon entering Alliance War! When you enter Campaign, we’ll use Vivec as primary, you choose which alliance you want to fight for. Once chosen, you are Faction locked account-wide ONLY for the duration of that specific campaign, IN THAT CAMPAIGN. Want to change characters and re-enter Vivec? Awesome! But you are still restricted to the faction you chose at start of the campaign. Now say you want to fight for a DIFFERENT faction, you choose Shor and select that faction. Now your account is locked to Faction A for Vivec for duration of campaign AND also locked to Faction B for Shor for duration of campaign.
4. Make Alliance War ranks meaningful, other than a Title. Add a passive skill line that gives individual benefits based on current Rank!
5. Zergs will be zergs…A Big part of the success of Zergs is being able to benefit other characters roles and having many in one role. Reduce group size from 24 to 12. You can still coordinate with other groups, but it limits your group size to allow more efficient counter play.
6. For the love of God, increase riding speed back to how it was!
7. Create new objectives so Cyrodiil isn’t just about getting Emperor or stealing Scrolls to win. Allow traps to be setup for defensive counter play to large sieges. An example comes to mind, digging trenches to slow down movement of a zerg?
I short lived this post as I wrote more and more…The idea here was to try to make Alliance War fun again and not just Zerg here, Zerg there. Ideas and comments are appreciated.
Edited by Jabbs_Giggity on March 22, 2019 1:35PM Right now, Alliance War has become extremely frustrating for new and elite PVPers mainly because of a few things that have already been address within multiple threads in the forum, so I will not detail in depth:
1. Zergs
2. Performance
3. Balancing – Sets and/or Classes
4. Alliance swapping
What are some ways to improve Cyrodiil and make it fun to play again? Let’s look at some ideas.
1. Redesign Alliance War. How? Create new guidelines for movement of siege. Instead of “carrying” large siege per character, implement an “order siege” option near an enemy keep/outpost. The way this could work is that you are able to carry out battle orders which are UI implemented based on your current owned network. For example, for EP to begin siege on Chalman they must have ownership of Arrius, Kings Crest and Farragut (each keep contributes a different effect of siege). Once the siege is ordered, NPC’s of the alliance bring siege and set it up at the location ordered based on the current level of the three mentioned keeps. The higher tier your home keeps are, the better the siege and number of sieges is.
This can prevent sieging “behind enemy lines” keeps with a quick turnover by have 30+ people because you would only have access to small siege weapons carried that do less damage to keeps.
2. For Defensive measure, have siege set up the same way with “Defensive orders” where NPC’s contribute to sieging the enemy instead of just standing there spitting spells.
3. Faction lock Campaigns…A great way to do this requires some details. I can bet 100% that there isn’t a person playing ESO that would not agree that Faction makes absolutely zero difference on PVE zones, right? Instead of “choosing” which faction to play for at character selection, you basically start in the zones that were originally assigned to the Race. Factions become important upon entering Alliance War! When you enter Campaign, we’ll use Vivec as primary, you choose which alliance you want to fight for. Once chosen, you are Faction locked account-wide ONLY for the duration of that specific campaign, IN THAT CAMPAIGN. Want to change characters and re-enter Vivec? Awesome! But you are still restricted to the faction you chose at start of the campaign. Now say you want to fight for a DIFFERENT faction, you choose Shor and select that faction. Now your account is locked to Faction A for Vivec for duration of campaign AND also locked to Faction B for Shor for duration of campaign.
4. Make Alliance War ranks meaningful, other than a Title. Add a passive skill line that gives individual benefits based on current Rank!
5. Zergs will be zergs…A Big part of the success of Zergs is being able to benefit other characters roles and having many in one role. Reduce group size from 24 to 12. You can still coordinate with other groups, but it limits your group size to allow more efficient counter play.
6. For the love of God, increase riding speed back to how it was!
7. Create new objectives so Cyrodiil isn’t just about getting Emperor or stealing Scrolls to win. Allow traps to be setup for defensive counter play to large sieges. An example comes to mind, digging trenches to slow down movement of a zerg?
I short lived this post as I wrote more and more…The idea here was to try to make Alliance War fun again and not just Zerg here, Zerg there. Ideas and comments are appreciated.
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RebornV3x✭✭✭✭✭
✭The whole siege thing and point #1 seems too complicated to implement. Some type of faction lock needs to be a thing. I don't think a passive for alliance rank is a good thing maybe a mount or a pet everything else seems like a good idea.Xbox One - NA GT: RebornV3x
I also play on PC from time to time but I just wanna be left alone on there so sorry.0 -
Jabbs_Giggity✭✭✭✭✭The whole siege thing and point #1 seems too complicated to implement.
It could be somewhat complicated, but in theory not really. You know how when you go to complete a scouting missing the UI activates within range "Scout area"? Well it could be similar, when you go up to a keep a UI could pop up to begin siege. Or vice versa when defending a keep that has begun seige by enemy alliance.
The idea is to make seiging more strategic and spread out the battles more efficiently for large scale. This wouldn't effect normal PvP outside of taking/defending keeps aspect. On the other hand it would greatly allow small scale groups to seige or countersiege!Edited by Jabbs_Giggity on March 22, 2019 1:55PM0 -
Jabbs_Giggity✭✭✭✭✭I don't think a passive for alliance rank is a good thing maybe a mount or a pet everything else seems like a good idea.
There are already universal, bland skills lines in Alliance War tied to ranks. However, there is no real point to leveling past a certain level other than for titles...
Maybe even separate skill line focuses that you can select one at a certain Rank from your War Master.
Something like:
Strategist : Increases seige damage, unhindered travel to flagged keep for defense or offense, etc.
Warrior : Boosts in speed, damage, defense.
Leader: Increased AP bonus passively for leading groups as "Crown"
Just ideas...0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭#1 and 2, yeah, I don't see the appeal of reducing the current available player abilities to set up siege when and where we please down to NPC actions. I come to Cyrodiil for Player vs Player, not for NPCs to be in charge of my siege weapon.
I understand that you want to prevent PvDoor and the nightly "ring around the home keeps". But in effect this takes away player action, player choices, and player tactics.
In addition, have you considered how these NPCs will actually siege? How well do they react on the fly to an enemy raid showing up to defend the keep? Can they run away from front door only to break down multiple holes elsewhere? Can defending NPCs time their siege fire to hit when an opposing raid makes a push? AI is almost always going to be inferior to having actual players running siege weapons.
And finally, who gives the orders? I don't know about your experiences, but on PC/NA Vivec, my experience is that PVPers work together about as well as a herd of cats. Even the zone generals don't get full faction buy in when they call out an obvious target and tell folks to siege it.
3. If we had the population for faction lock, sure. Until performance improves, I doubt we do.
4.former Emperors would like their benefits back as well. Those are basically the same thing, and got removed. Plus, that's a strong incentive to not play alts in PVP, unkess ZOS makes rank account wide.
#5&7, players form organic zergs when they have to take important objectives. Unfortunately, your #1 and 2 come into play here. If each alliance can only order siege to attack or defend certain specific keeps in order, there's no incentive to be anywhere else on the map. I mean, what are they going to do without siege NPCs, light attack the wall down?1 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Maybe have upper pvp ranks grant gold for killing a player with the ap?
Maybe it has to be equal or greater rank unless GO, then you get the two below as well or something.Fear is the Mindkiller1 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I am very new to PvP so forgive me if this is a silly question but... why are zergs bad?
I like the faction lock idea, though I'm AD FOR LIFE and I can't believe others aren't as dedicated.1 -
Jabbs_Giggity✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »#1 and 2, yeah, I don't see the appeal of reducing the current available player abilities to set up siege when and where we please down to NPC actions. I come to Cyrodiil for Player vs Player, not for NPCs to be in charge of my siege weapon.
I understand that you want to prevent PvDoor and the nightly "ring around the home keeps". But in effect this takes away player action, player choices, and player tactics.
In addition, have you considered how these NPCs will actually siege? How well do they react on the fly to an enemy raid showing up to defend the keep? Can they run away from front door only to break down multiple holes elsewhere? Can defending NPCs time their siege fire to hit when an opposing raid makes a push? AI is almost always going to be inferior to having actual players running siege weapons.
And finally, who gives the orders? I don't know about your experiences, but on PC/NA Vivec, my experience is that PVPers work together about as well as a herd of cats. Even the zone generals don't get full faction buy in when they call out an obvious target and tell folks to siege it.
3. If we had the population for faction lock, sure. Until performance improves, I doubt we do.
4.former Emperors would like their benefits back as well. Those are basically the same thing, and got removed. Plus, that's a strong incentive to not play alts in PVP, unkess ZOS makes rank account wide.
#5&7, players form organic zergs when they have to take important objectives. Unfortunately, your #1 and 2 come into play here. If each alliance can only order siege to attack or defend certain specific keeps in order, there's no incentive to be anywhere else on the map. I mean, what are they going to do without siege NPCs, light attack the wall down?
In a nutshell @VaranisArano , I was not imposing the suggestion of "handing seige over to NPC's" I was saying that more powerfull siege, such as Rams, Catapults, maybe add some new siege? would be restricted to having the available Home Keeps under owneship. This means in order to use more powerful siege, you must request it from your base(s) of operation(s) where NPC's bring this siege upon request. You can still "man" the siege yourself, as the NPC's would be nothing more than a supply truck, if you will. Once a player activates the begin siege UI, it remains in place until the keep is unflagged from cooldown or you run out of large siege brought - which again is based on home keeps current level tier.
Organized groups can still go terrorize other keeps on the map, via ballistas, that are not in their supply line...*Cough Cough* AD going to Faragut...from Gates.....
Completely agree with former Emperor passives. That was a jackhammer of a PVP nerf that was uneeded and unwanted.
I had suggested Alliance War optimization Skill Lines that could be granted upon a certain RankJabbs_Giggity wrote: »Maybe even separate skill line focuses that you can select one at a certain Rank from your War Master.
Something like:
Strategist : Increases seige damage, unhindered travel to flagged keep for defense or offense, etc.
Warrior : Boosts in speed, damage, defense.
Leader: Increased AP bonus passively for leading groups as "Crown"
Maybe having a Strategist in your group could allow having larger siege to be moved around more tactically behind enemy lines? There are really endless possibilities to make Alliance War more addicting than just simply load in, joing a zerg and enjoy the lagfest.
Why do you think PVEers sit there and mock out PVPers? Because there is no current PVP content to really motivate having a higher population and ZOS knows it. A few investments in to Alliance War (Aside from Performance - we know it needs it) could go along way for increasing population and profit for ZOS. Let's face it, all PVPers do PVE new content now and then for new gear or resource nodes for upgrading or just flat out grinds for skill lines, etc. that ZOS does profit from. However, without a reason to attract more PVPers, ZOS won't ever care to upgrade Alliance War.0 -
Jabbs_Giggity✭✭✭✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »I am very new to PvP so forgive me if this is a silly question but... why are zergs bad?
I like the faction lock idea, though I'm AD FOR LIFE and I can't believe others aren't as dedicated.
Never said zergs are "bad". However, with the current state of PVP Zergs only add to the problem PVPers are facing. With PVPers leaving ESO left and right, and new players joining ESO from other MMORPGs Zergs are becoming more and more toxic for overall gameplay of PVP.
I will give you an example. Now, you can create a Stamina Warden that can achieve over 6K Weapon Damge + 2+K Stamina Sustain + over Resistance Caps, and they can heal themselves...Why can one class (Not just specific to Wardens) do it all? Against every ZOS idea to make each class unique. Ain't Pokemon "Gotta catch em all!"
Now you add 5 more of these like builds to a group. Combined achievable DPS with THREE skills is over 100K easy. Now you add in other classes like DK's that perma root/snare spam. Now you add in Magicka chars that run Vicious Death and the newest member of zerg mentality...Black Rose Prison staves and Impulse! Not done...Now we add in 5 dedicated healers!!!
I have seen over 60+ try to take on groups like this and consistently fail. Why? Because these meta Zergs are just near impossible to kill > Unless you have lots of Negates (which no one runs....
)
So, my friend @SidraWillowsky , tell me why zergs are great? I'll wait...0
