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ice staff on tank dragonknight?
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IWinWithPewPew✭✭✭if you're wondering wth i'm talking about :
https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-dragonknight-tank-build-pve/1 -
UntilValhalla13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭With the nerf to one handed weapon enchants cut in half, tanks will often run a staff so that their elemental blockade can get the full effect of their Crusher enchant.6 -
SoLooney✭✭✭✭✭Good tanks were already wearing staves before enchants on 1h were nerfed.
Lightning staff for trials with stam dps, and ice staff for mini trials3 -
LeagueTroll✭✭✭✭✭ice staff also has the dmg reduction passives and cp benefits. The difference is only 1800 resistance, for a very minor loss you gain a way to range taunt and fill up mag, and interupt if u have to. Obv the enchant change is annoying AF, zos should make ice blockade last 24 seconds and do 1/3 dps.1
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AndrewQ84✭✭✭My DK tank runs double ice staff. Full magika tank. Tis much fun.Sa'hira of the Shadows, DC Nightblade and ruins explorer extraordinaire.
"May your day be awesome and full of Bacon!!!"
- Me1 -
AndrewQ84✭✭✭
See, heres the thing. Fractures and breeches are a dime a dozen from everyone and their mother in their particular classes. There is almost always (if not always) someone running them in the grouop. And since they dont stack, I dont care to run them. I also dont run ele drain since I play with my girlfriend all the time and she runs ele drain. No point in both of us running. Wasted skill slot. And I dont run Noxious breath. I run engilfing flames to increase overall damage from my magika fire spells. So the only thing i use stam for is dodging. Which at bare minimum stam I have plenty of for going "better roll out of that"Edited by AndrewQ84 on March 18, 2019 2:29AMSa'hira of the Shadows, DC Nightblade and ruins explorer extraordinaire.
"May your day be awesome and full of Bacon!!!"
- Me0 -
IWinWithPewPew✭✭✭
See, heres the thing. Fractures and breeches are a dime a dozen from everyone and their mother in their particular classes. There is almost always (if not always) someone running them in the grouop. And since they dont stack, I dont care to run them. I also dont run ele drain since I play with my girlfriend all the time and she runs ele drain. No point in both of us running. Wasted skill slot. And I dont run Noxious breath. I run engilfing flames to increase overall damage from my magika fire spells. So the only thing i use stam for is dodging. Which at bare minimum stam I have plenty of for going "better roll out of that"
so.... ur not a tank?5 -
AndrewQ84✭✭✭IWinWithPewPew wrote: »
See, heres the thing. Fractures and breeches are a dime a dozen from everyone and their mother in their particular classes. There is almost always (if not always) someone running them in the grouop. And since they dont stack, I dont care to run them. I also dont run ele drain since I play with my girlfriend all the time and she runs ele drain. No point in both of us running. Wasted skill slot. And I dont run Noxious breath. I run engilfing flames to increase overall damage from my magika fire spells. So the only thing i use stam for is dodging. Which at bare minimum stam I have plenty of for going "better roll out of that"
so.... ur not a tank?
So since i dont run the exact same setup as you or some youtuber online I am not a tank? Sure. If that's your mentality, then have fun. I'll keep doing what I'm doing and you keep doing you. Have fun.Edited by AndrewQ84 on March 18, 2019 3:43AMSa'hira of the Shadows, DC Nightblade and ruins explorer extraordinaire.
"May your day be awesome and full of Bacon!!!"
- Me5 -
Peekachu99✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IWinWithPewPew wrote: »
See, heres the thing. Fractures and breeches are a dime a dozen from everyone and their mother in their particular classes. There is almost always (if not always) someone running them in the grouop. And since they dont stack, I dont care to run them. I also dont run ele drain since I play with my girlfriend all the time and she runs ele drain. No point in both of us running. Wasted skill slot. And I dont run Noxious breath. I run engilfing flames to increase overall damage from my magika fire spells. So the only thing i use stam for is dodging. Which at bare minimum stam I have plenty of for going "better roll out of that"
so.... ur not a tank?
So since i dont run the exact same setup as you or some youtuber online I am not a tank? Sure. If that's your mentality, then have fun. I'll keep doing what I'm doing and you keep doing you. Have fun.
You’re missing out on a) free ranged taunt b) crushing shock for interrupts.0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭A few reasons. Crusher is halved on one handed weapons now. Crusher uptime is bests on a bow, because endless hail ticks every half second, wall ticks every 1 second. Then lightning wall sets concussed targets off balance, meaning 10% more damage for Stam toons and more resources/damage for heavy attacks. Ice wall slows mobs and can proc chilled, which is minor maim, 15% damage reduction.
Also you get access to range interups with both, venom arrow and crushing shock. Simply put, if you are using double s/b, or even double staffs, you are limiting yourself and your team.Peekachu99 wrote: »IWinWithPewPew wrote: »
See, heres the thing. Fractures and breeches are a dime a dozen from everyone and their mother in their particular classes. There is almost always (if not always) someone running them in the grouop. And since they dont stack, I dont care to run them. I also dont run ele drain since I play with my girlfriend all the time and she runs ele drain. No point in both of us running. Wasted skill slot. And I dont run Noxious breath. I run engilfing flames to increase overall damage from my magika fire spells. So the only thing i use stam for is dodging. Which at bare minimum stam I have plenty of for going "better roll out of that"
so.... ur not a tank?
So since i dont run the exact same setup as you or some youtuber online I am not a tank? Sure. If that's your mentality, then have fun. I'll keep doing what I'm doing and you keep doing you. Have fun.
You’re missing out on a) free ranged taunt b) crushing shock for interrupts.
It is not "free", you have to heavy attack and that costs time, something that is very important a lot of the time.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on March 18, 2019 4:37AM0 -
AndrewQ84✭✭✭Peekachu99 wrote: »IWinWithPewPew wrote: »
See, heres the thing. Fractures and breeches are a dime a dozen from everyone and their mother in their particular classes. There is almost always (if not always) someone running them in the grouop. And since they dont stack, I dont care to run them. I also dont run ele drain since I play with my girlfriend all the time and she runs ele drain. No point in both of us running. Wasted skill slot. And I dont run Noxious breath. I run engilfing flames to increase overall damage from my magika fire spells. So the only thing i use stam for is dodging. Which at bare minimum stam I have plenty of for going "better roll out of that"
so.... ur not a tank?
So since i dont run the exact same setup as you or some youtuber online I am not a tank? Sure. If that's your mentality, then have fun. I'll keep doing what I'm doing and you keep doing you. Have fun.
You’re missing out on a) free ranged taunt b) crushing shock for interrupts.
I have those already. Double ice staff.Sa'hira of the Shadows, DC Nightblade and ruins explorer extraordinaire.
"May your day be awesome and full of Bacon!!!"
- Me0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
There is almost always (if not always) someone running them in the grouop.
There are some classes that just don't have it. Aka sorcerers and Templars. While I can agree with you not running Eledrain cause the healer has it, I would never agree with your choice of not running major fracture. Because some classes can't create it without using a specific set, which is useless if the tank uses major fracture. Also nb's don't give 100% uptime for it either, and idk about wardens enough to comment. So saying you won't use major fracture because people always use it, is screwing with stamplars and stamsorcs.Edited by zvavi on March 18, 2019 7:07AM1 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭LeagueTroll wrote: »ice staff also has the dmg reduction passives and cp benefits. The difference is only 1800 resistance, for a very minor loss you gain a way to range taunt and fill up mag, and interupt if u have to. Obv the enchant change is annoying AF, zos should make ice blockade last 24 seconds and do 1/3 dps.
no.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX2 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »LeagueTroll wrote: »ice staff also has the dmg reduction passives and cp benefits. The difference is only 1800 resistance, for a very minor loss you gain a way to range taunt and fill up mag, and interupt if u have to. Obv the enchant change is annoying AF, zos should make ice blockade last 24 seconds and do 1/3 dps.
no.
I am not even sure what you said no to, but since the whole first part of the post is plain wrong, and the second one will hurt ice warden builds, I assume everything?
Edited by zvavi on March 18, 2019 8:22AM0 -
Austinseph1✭✭✭✭✭At a base level all you are required to do as a tank is control the enemies and stay alive, if they can do that effectively and have fun with it I won’t expect more. You can force tanking under the umbrella of being a support roll if you want to be the best of the best but the other 90% of the player base isn’t going to have fun with that. If you want double staff and you have a ton of health, I have my own buffs/debuffs that help me preform my roll. I can get 30k+ dps self buffed in base game sets, and you don’t need any more than that to complete any content in the game. Play how you want and have fun with it. Don’t be that guy telling others “If you have to use plague doctors in vMA then you don’t have what it takes to use its rewards effectively.”. Eso is the kind of game that welcomes uniqueness in builds, because your ability as a player is just as powerful as your proc sets.0 -
SoLooney✭✭✭✭✭Peekachu99 wrote: »IWinWithPewPew wrote: »
See, heres the thing. Fractures and breeches are a dime a dozen from everyone and their mother in their particular classes. There is almost always (if not always) someone running them in the grouop. And since they dont stack, I dont care to run them. I also dont run ele drain since I play with my girlfriend all the time and she runs ele drain. No point in both of us running. Wasted skill slot. And I dont run Noxious breath. I run engilfing flames to increase overall damage from my magika fire spells. So the only thing i use stam for is dodging. Which at bare minimum stam I have plenty of for going "better roll out of that"
so.... ur not a tank?
So since i dont run the exact same setup as you or some youtuber online I am not a tank? Sure. If that's your mentality, then have fun. I'll keep doing what I'm doing and you keep doing you. Have fun.
You’re missing out on a) free ranged taunt b) crushing shock for interrupts.
I have those already. Double ice staff.
Tank end game content and you'll quickly see that making full heavy attacks are just not an option. You get caught with a boss heavy attack or some deadly mechanic and you're one shot dead
Also, heavy attacking is not free. It doesnt cost resources but time and if you have to block in the middle of your heavy attack, you have no viable taunt unlike puncture which is an instant cast
And I'm assuming you're have the passives where blocks cost magicka? You're gonna run out magicka real fast lol2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My DK tank runs double ice staff. Full magika tank. Tis much fun.
Bert runs an ice staff Warden tank, and does a pretty solid job with it. I've healed him through vSCP with it, and I'm not a solid enough healer to carry someone who doesn't know what they're doing, so you can certainly make viable mag tanks with the options we have now.AbysmalGhul wrote: »Why is this becoming a topic/issue all of a sudden?
Wrathstone changed the 1h weapon enchants so that they're now half the power of 2h weapon enchants. This means that the crusher enchant on a Sword & Board tank is now less effective than it used to be, and one of the solutions is to go and backbar a 2h weapon to apply crusher with it.0 -
AbysmalGhul✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »My DK tank runs double ice staff. Full magika tank. Tis much fun.
Bert runs an ice staff Warden tank, and does a pretty solid job with it. I've healed him through vSCP with it, and I'm not a solid enough healer to carry someone who doesn't know what they're doing, so you can certainly make viable mag tanks with the options we have now.AbysmalGhul wrote: »Why is this becoming a topic/issue all of a sudden?
Wrathstone changed the 1h weapon enchants so that they're now half the power of 2h weapon enchants. This means that the crusher enchant on a Sword & Board tank is now less effective than it used to be, and one of the solutions is to go and backbar a 2h weapon to apply crusher with it.
I'm aware of the changes. I've always run a destro or healing back bar as all the tanks in my guilds do. I was curious as to why people thought this was a new concept.Edited by AbysmalGhul on March 18, 2019 9:50AM0 -
TheInfernalRage✭✭✭✭✭
I wore Night Mother's Gaze (with Plague Doctors), use Iceheart for crits, and bingo I have Major Fracture. Major Breach is always provided by the healer's Elemental Drain. So, instead of a skill, I have an open bar slot.
With this kind of tanking I always place my stamina around 13k-15k for breaking free or roll dodging. For blocking, Ice Staff passive uses Magicka.0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheInfernalRage wrote: »
I wore Night Mother's Gaze (with Plague Doctors), use Iceheart for crits, and bingo I have Major Fracture. Major Breach is always provided by the healer's Elemental Drain. So, instead of a skill, I have an open bar slot.
With this kind of tanking I always place my stamina around 13k-15k for breaking free or roll dodging. For blocking, Ice Staff passive uses Magicka.
what's funny is you lose so much by slotting armor set. don't ever do this XD If you're experimenting like i do that's fine but there is realistically no way to make it work without pierce. I even tried poisons.Edited by ESO_Nightingale on March 18, 2019 11:11AMPvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX2 -
profundidob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭IWinWithPewPew wrote: »Why? can anyone explain this to me?
why not double shield and sword?
In addition to all the above I want to add for completeness that due to the destruction staff passives for Ice staff specifically it's perfectly valid to block while being on your staff bar, getting cost reduction and +block bonuses.
This opens the way to ranged interrupting with crushing shock (Fang lair menagerie boss, Zmaja in cloudrest, etc...).0 -
ankeor✭✭✭✭✭TheInfernalRage wrote: »
I wore Night Mother's Gaze (with Plague Doctors), use Iceheart for crits, and bingo I have Major Fracture. Major Breach is always provided by the healer's Elemental Drain. So, instead of a skill, I have an open bar slot.
With this kind of tanking I always place my stamina around 13k-15k for breaking free or roll dodging. For blocking, Ice Staff passive uses Magicka.
So you use 2 different sets to be able to apply 1 debuff instead of using a skill that does the same more reliably?Edited by ankeor on March 18, 2019 12:27PM3 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭starkerealm wrote: »My DK tank runs double ice staff. Full magika tank. Tis much fun.
Bert runs an ice staff Warden tank, and does a pretty solid job with it. I've healed him through vSCP with it, and I'm not a solid enough healer to carry someone who doesn't know what they're doing, so you can certainly make viable mag tanks with the options we have now.AbysmalGhul wrote: »Why is this becoming a topic/issue all of a sudden?
Wrathstone changed the 1h weapon enchants so that they're now half the power of 2h weapon enchants. This means that the crusher enchant on a Sword & Board tank is now less effective than it used to be, and one of the solutions is to go and backbar a 2h weapon to apply crusher with it.
The funny thing I noticed about halving the enchants on dual wield is that tool tip spell damage is higher in a 2H nirn beserker enchanted sword; but the damage is really close with main hand nirn beserker off hand sharper crusher. The 2H beserker results in about 2k less pen. It’s like ZOS brought dual wield in line with 2H.
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »The funny thing I noticed about halving the enchants on dual wield is that tool tip spell damage is higher in a 2H nirn beserker enchanted sword; but the damage is really close with main hand nirn beserker off hand sharper crusher. The 2H beserker results in about 2k less pen. It’s like ZOS brought dual wield in line with 2H.
Crusher's a little funny for DW, but, yeah.
With a few caveats, the enchant changes are a good thing. Sword and Board got hit by this, which is unfortunate, but life happens, and you still can't stack two copies of the same enchant on dual wield, so... for example, if you were running a disease damage DW setup, you can't slot the same buff on both weapons now. Which is unfortunate.
Otherwise, it's nice. Also, I still love 2h as a DPS tool, but a lot of that comes from having the timing down.0 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »TheInfernalRage wrote: »
I wore Night Mother's Gaze (with Plague Doctors), use Iceheart for crits, and bingo I have Major Fracture. Major Breach is always provided by the healer's Elemental Drain. So, instead of a skill, I have an open bar slot.
With this kind of tanking I always place my stamina around 13k-15k for breaking free or roll dodging. For blocking, Ice Staff passive uses Magicka.
what's funny is you lose so much by slotting armor set. don't ever do this XD If you're experimenting like i do that's fine but there is realistically no way to make it work without pierce. I even tried poisons.TheInfernalRage wrote: »
I wore Night Mother's Gaze (with Plague Doctors), use Iceheart for crits, and bingo I have Major Fracture. Major Breach is always provided by the healer's Elemental Drain. So, instead of a skill, I have an open bar slot.
With this kind of tanking I always place my stamina around 13k-15k for breaking free or roll dodging. For blocking, Ice Staff passive uses Magicka.
So you use 2 different sets to be able to apply 1 debuff instead of using a skill that does the same more reliably?
Who gaf how he decides to Tank, so long as he's doing his job. I mean, if you don't like the way he tanks, fine but if he's doing it and not having an issue with his resources/aggro, what's the big deal if he continues to play that way since its clearly working for him?Argonian forever0 -
lassitershawn✭✭✭✭✭Staves are good back-bar weapons on tanks in a variety of scenarios. Just a few examples:
Applying crusher with blockade (most common use, relevant in all content)
Applying elemental drain (good if you have no healer in a dungeon, very nice downstairs in vCR for your DPS)
Interrupting (vAS OT commonly helps interrupt llothis or solos it during execute, interrupting raptors in vHoF, etc)
Zero magicka cost range taunt if using ice (not useful most of the time but I've used it on occasion)
Block when out of stam if using ice (if you somehow run out of stam but NEED to block something you can swap to back bar and use your magicka instead)William Thorne - EP Breton Sorcerer
Astrid Winterborn - EP Breton Warden
Erik Ironskin - EP Nord Dragonknight
Venasa Viri - EP Dunmer Nightblade
IR x8, GH x5, TTT x20