The nature of The Vestige.

JD2013

Okay, so, there have been plenty of lore topics about The Vestige, but one that I have never seen is about their very nature.

When it comes to Elder Scrolls games, the nature of the hero that you are playing as is always hinted at, explained partly - in the most generic terms they can be, of course, as every player plays their character differently.

There was plenty of info about The Nerevarine. Not so much about The Hero of Kvatch as they were not chosen by a Divine to fulfil a prophecy. The Last Dragonborn had plenty of lore, prophecy, The Greybeards filling their heads with all sorts of stuff about Dragonborns of legend, how they come to be etc.

But The Vestige has none of this. They are a prisoner in a daedric realm that get freed. We know really nothing of our nature.

The biggest question for me being why are they always at the centre of all of these massive storms and happenings on Tamriel in the second era?

I can get the base game story. We know why they went through that - to get their soul back and to stop The Planemeld. Okay, good. Then - they get their soul back. This was even mentioned to be a prophecy from an Elder Scroll.

Why is it The Vestige that has to reunite Wrothgar? Why are people having visions and prophecies about us? Why must t be us that saves Vivec and Vvardenfell? Sotha Sil and Clockwork City? Saving the whole island of Summerset (and likely the whole of creation) from The Triad and Nocturnal's planned incursion of the Crystal Tower? Also, why are we so happy making deals with Clavicus Vile and Mephala - do we owe them now? And one more - Why is Meridia so darn interested in us? She's helped us so many times. Even Sotha Sil thinks us special.

Are we simply a mercenary caught up in extenuating circumstances? Is our power to fight finite? There really seems to be nothing we can't overcome.

What makes us so special?

I would really like to see a quest or two pertaining to our nature. Why we are so special. It would have to be quite generic to cover us all, of course, but - there is no real reason (besides to keep us adventuring) that we keep running towards these battles and plots. It could also be interesting if there was something that we could not beat straight off the bat.

VaranisArano

I think that's the sort of question best answered through Role play and not spelled out explicitly in the game.

My thoughts:
Even Morrowind doesn't mandate that you are the reincarnation of Nerevar. You have the option to tell Dagoth Ur "Nope, I'm not him, but I'm going to oppose you anyway."

I figure the Vestige right now is closer to the Hero of Kvatch. The Hero of Kvatch is anyone who, given a task by the Emperor and faced with a burning city, went into an Oblivion Gate and closed it rather than turn away.

Similarly, the Vestige is the Soul Shriven who, when in the middle of escaping from Coldharbor, listen to the Prophet's cry for help and assisted him.

It is the deeds of the Hero of Kvatch and the deeds of the Vestige, the choices that they make, that make them the heroes they are.

They don't need Akatosh or Azura saying "You are the Chosen One of Prophecy." Rather, they chose that path, for their own reasons.

And their reasons for making those choices are better left to each player's role-playing, in my opinion.

JD2013

VaranisArano wrote: »

I think that's the sort of question best answered through Role play and not spelled out explicitly in the game.

My thoughts:
Even Morrowind doesn't mandate that you are the reincarnation of Nerevar. You have the option to tell Dagoth Ur "Nope, I'm not him, but I'm going to oppose you anyway."

I figure the Vestige right now is closer to the Hero of Kvatch. The Hero of Kvatch is anyone who, given a task by the Emperor and faced with a burning city, went into an Oblivion Gate and closed it rather than turn away.

Similarly, the Vestige is the Soul Shriven who, when in the middle of escaping from Coldharbor, listen to the Prophet's cry for help and assisted him.

It is the deeds of the Hero of Kvatch and the deeds of the Vestige, the choices that they make, that make them the heroes they are.

They don't need Akatosh or Azura saying "You are the Chosen One of Prophecy." Rather, they chose that path, for their own reasons.

And their reasons for making those choices are better left to each player's role-playing, in my opinion.

I also definitely think of The Vestige as closer to the hero of Kvatch than any of the others. I like that we seem to be just someone who makes our own choices and forges our own path, but we are also possibly Daedric in part (body made of Amber Plasm) we don’t seem to be able to die (game mechanic primarily - but can we actually die) and lots of Daedric Princes seem to have their attentions on us. Why is my primary question. We are an anomaly at least.

RaddlemanNumber7

I assume that each of my Vestiges is either knowingly, or unknowingly, the next edition of the Shezzarine. There are some hints in dialogue that suggest it, and plenty of good reasons in lore why it is not made explicit. It's an answer that works very well for me.

Hey, where did all those moths come from!

Claudman

I hope the Vestige isn't a Shezzarine. That term gets flung at literally every protagonist in the TES games and it's kinda making the lore seem very kiddy-like.

Just let a Hero be a Hero, idk why they've got to be the "CHOSEN ONE". It's possible that the protagonist has a destiny to be at the right place at the right time instead of being a incarnation of a dead human god.

It's better for Roleplay for the protagonist being ambiguous in terms of being the chosen/destined one or not, so that the player may decide on whether or not it's true.

mystfrog

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Chaotic_Creatia:_The_Azure_Plasm

I think this lorebook describes the possible origin of the vestige pretty well. Especially the last part

ArchMikem

The Vestige defied and "defeated" a Daedric Prince. That put us squarely in the crosshairs of every powerful being that side of Oblivion. Once we've gotten their attention like that, there's no going back. I honestly believe the Vestige will never stop looking over their shoulder for the rest of their life now, no growing old in peace and quiet, there's always going to be something that pulls us into danger and conflict, be it mortal made or Daedric.

Just look at Wrathstone. All the Vestige wanted to do was help an old acquaintance Tharrayah explore a ruin, next thing you know we've plundered an ancient artifact that will release three vengeful Dragons AND pissed off Meridia in doing so.

Danel_Vadan

Because the Vestige is the Prisoner. And as Prisoner, we're also the hero. As Zurin Arctus says: "Each event is preceded by Prophecy. But without the hero, there is no Event."

Ogou

mystfrog wrote: »

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Chaotic_Creatia:_The_Azure_Plasm

I think this lorebook describes the possible origin of the vestige pretty well. Especially the last part

Was going to link this. I personally think that the strong Anuic component of the vestige's soul causes them to be instinctively attracted to events that can potentially harm Nirn and prevent them from happening.

Danikat

I like that it's not explained in game because then it leaves more opportunity for me to tailor the answer to each character, based on what they're doing.

For those who I plan to eventually complete everything (which is most of my characters) the simple answer is that they go out of their way to be that person. They want to be the hero, or at least a full-time professional adventurer, and find the inability to die permanently hugely useful, so when they're not already engaged in a quest (which is relatively rare) they'll actively seek out trouble and put themselves forward as the one to solve it. And of course over time they get a reputation as someone who will do that so people are more likely to seek them out.

For others it's similar but less direct and less consistent. They may not go out of their way to seek out trouble but if they find themselves involved in events they're not going to ignore it or hope someone else will deal with. (These are the ones who will ignore some quests and accept others.)

The biggest exception is my crafter who will actively ignore most quests because he keeps saying he's retired and just wants some peace and quiet. Although even he isn't going to ignore someone murdering him and taking his soul - he's going to make them pay regardless of who, or what, they are.

RealWhiteGuar

What makes us so special?

We are a Prisoner. Sotha Sil points this out explicitly. We are not constrained by the limitations of causality.
As to what the Vestige is, it really comes down to the nature of the soul, but I'm not sure that's part of your question.

JD2013

Claudman wrote: »

I hope the Vestige isn't a Shezzarine. That term gets flung at literally every protagonist in the TES games and it's kinda making the lore seem very kiddy-like.

Just let a Hero be a Hero, idk why they've got to be the "CHOSEN ONE". It's possible that the protagonist has a destiny to be at the right place at the right time instead of being a incarnation of a dead human god.

It's better for Roleplay for the protagonist being ambiguous in terms of being the chosen/destined one or not, so that the player may decide on whether or not it's true.

I agree with this, I do not think The Vestige is a Shezzarine. They are something else.

RealWhiteGuar wrote: »

What makes us so special?

We are a Prisoner. Sotha Sil points this out explicitly. We are not constrained by the limitations of causality.
As to what the Vestige is, it really comes down to the nature of the soul, but I'm not sure that's part of your question.

The indomitable spirit. That sounds quite correct in many ways about our hero.

LadySinflower

Many of you have stated it correctly, I believe, but in different ways. The back story of The Vestige is most likely not explained because ZoS wants us to imagine that for ourselves. By not telling us, "You are this person from this place acting for this reason," they leave each of us to fill it in, or not, as we imagine. To some people it will become very important to give their character a specific identity and a purpose, and to others it won't matter at all. It becomes part of the personality you give your character and adds another layer of depth to every action and choice. The ability to give your character the identity you choose can ultimately make you more invested in the character, or so they hope. Each player can go as far into the fantasy of the role-play as deeply as they wish. You're only limited by your own imagination.

Danikat

LadySinflower wrote: »

Many of you have stated it correctly, I believe, but in different ways. The back story of The Vestige is most likely not explained because ZoS wants us to imagine that for ourselves. By not telling us, "You are this person from this place acting for this reason," they leave each of us to fill it in, or not, as we imagine. To some people it will become very important to give their character a specific identity and a purpose, and to others it won't matter at all. It becomes part of the personality you give your character and adds another layer of depth to every action and choice. The ability to give your character the identity you choose can ultimately make you more invested in the character, or so they hope. Each player can go as far into the fantasy of the role-play as deeply as they wish. You're only limited by your own imagination.

Sometimes I even like to deliberately leave things blank. My main Oblivion character went through the whole game (not quite 100% completion because I chose to skip some things) and had a full backstory worked out but all she'd ever say about how she wound up in prison is that she didn't do it and it was a complete over-reaction.

Whatever it is I strongly suspect she did do it (given some of the things I know she did later on) and she's just insulted she got caught doing it.

But it was more fun for me not to know.

ezio45

personally think we are the pawn of meridia and/or azura

cynicalbutterfly

I always figured the Vestige was that one guy/gal that just decided one day to travel the world and everywhere he/she goes *** just happens... And of course, you can't just walk away when someone screams for help. I mean you could but that kinda makes you an a**hole for doing so. After a while, word gets around that you're such a nice person and before ya knew it everyone is calling you a hero.
As far as a connection to any aedra or daedra, I don't think there originally was any connection. The more the Vestige helps, the more noticable he or she becomes to the aedra and daedra. Just like in Skyrim. Do a few favors and they pretty much leave you alone to do your thing because they enjoy watching you do your thing. I imagine it's like watching tv for them. Seems like every couple of hundred years someone interesting comes along for them to watch. Coincidence? Maybe or maybe not. Not really enough evidence to draw conclusions yet.

Ysbriel

Because its all but a dream.

RebornV3x

My theory is Meridia set all these things in motion since the Soulburst you the Vestige are unknowingly Meridias champion and that she has been manipulating you since right before you get sacrificed and end up in Coldharbour that she was waiting for someone like you who just happen to meet Lyris and escape Coldharbor all of this to get back at Molag Bal and to disrupt the other Deadric Princes during Summerset I would go on but I don't to spoil any more of the games story.

I like to think Meridia is like this Aizen type of person who thinks they planned for everything and waited years to finally enact her plan

faolan2018

IMO, the Vestige is some form of demigod(ess); thanks in large part to their paragon soul (compliments of Nirn) and a balance between this Anuic force and a physical form made with Padomaic goop (Thanks to Molag bal's consumption of their soul, thus making them Soul Shriven+). A perfect balance of light and dark.

Am I the only one who's seeing this?

Aigym_Hlervu

faolan2018 wrote: »

IMO, the Vestige is some form of demigod(ess); thanks in large part to their paragon soul (compliments of Nirn) and a balance between this Anuic force and a physical form made with Padomaic goop (Thanks to Molag bal's consumption of their soul, thus making them Soul Shriven+). A perfect balance of light and dark.

Am I the only one who's seeing this?

May be. May be not. There is a concept of the Prisoner. Prisoners are already some sort of demigods of that universe matching only with the Eight who are truly gods because they had developed and beta-test the first Elder Scrolls games, they created the lore before finally leaving their creation. We all are Prisoners first and being a Vestige, a Nerevarine, or a Kvatch Champion and others is secondary. We all are outlanders to Nirn. This makes us much beyond those universal concepts in comparison with the locals - the NPCs. Have you played "Omikron: The Nomad Soul"? We are very much like that Nomad Souls here.