¿What should ZoS do about the current state of tanking?

Drako_Ei

ZoS nerfed our crusher, forcing the competitive tanks to backbar ice staff (or even worse, lightning staff).
I put some of my ideas at the options. Personally... if 1 or 2 becomes true i will start using my tank again.

Chronocidal

they could always make the role a character plays more dependant on a skill line then what item/s they have equipped

similiar to their vaguely proposed plans for stealth gameplay not being tied to racial passives

Drako_Ei

Make 2H swords the stamina version of lightning staves (Change unused morphs to give group utility like Wreckling blow: offbalance/Stampede: ranged interrumpt, offbalance if interrumpt/Carve: minor maim)

Chronocidal wrote: »

they could always make the role a character plays more dependant on a skill line then what item/s they have equipped

similiar to their vaguely proposed plans for stealth gameplay not being tied to racial passives

This is a good idea, that skill line could have maim, heroism, offbalance, etc... and we could finally put and end to this backbar lightning staff nonsense

Protossyder

Other (Comment your idea)

Even though we cry about nerfes happening all the time, the dps increased every patch which made content easier. Reducing the effectiveness of 1 handed weapons was the right step. Most players adapted anyways by now.

Aside from that: Many tanks were using different weapons on their back bars for ages already.
E.g.: Bow (dot tank), Healing staff (vDSA with 3 stam dds for example), Frost staff (for mag based tanking), Lightning staff (for off balance and more utility)

Having more variety isn't a bad thing, get over it. And if you didn't care about providing more utility to your group by using anything different than the old double SnB before I really doubt that you truly care about 1k less penetration now.

PS: healers can use infused crushing too.

AbysmalGhul

What's wrong with a destro/resto back bar on a tank?

Tommy_The_Gun

Other (Comment your idea)

Honestly ? IDK. I think at this point the only way would be to make a complete tanking and dungeon mechanics overhaul.

I remember how tank role used to look like in the past. Compared to what it is now, tanks have been reduced simply to buff spammers. End game tanking is getting worse & worse.

Also pretty much all clases aside from DK & Warden have nothing to offer as a tank.
I miss my Hybrid NB Sap Tank...

Drako_Ei

Make 2H swords the stamina version of lightning staves (Change unused morphs to give group utility like Wreckling blow: offbalance/Stampede: ranged interrumpt, offbalance if interrumpt/Carve: minor maim)

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

What's wrong with a destro/resto back bar on a tank?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with it, im not saying "REMOVE STAVES FROM THE GAME", they are fine. I just want more options for tanking, i personally think a staff is the last weapon a tank on heavy armor, it just feels wrong to some.

1h and shield + 2h backbar
double 1h and shield

make more sense than (using our common sense and not ZoS'):

1h and shield + mage's staff

I just want more options, i was fine using double 1h and shield, i knew lightning staff was meta because of the offbalance, but i could live with that, but now its mandatory for vet trials (either ice of lightning) because of the 1h enchant nerf. I used to love tanking vet trials, but they took the option i was using away, i cant bring myself to use a staff on my main character... but that renders turogs useless.

So yeah.. nothing wrong with destro/restro backbar, but can we have destro/restro + MORE OPTIONS for backbar?

Protossyder

Other (Comment your idea)

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Honestly ? IDK. I think at this point the only way would be to make a cemplete tanking and dungeon mechanics overhaul.

I remember how tank role used to look like in the past. Compared to what it is now, tanks have been reduced simply to buff spammers. End game tanking is getting worse & worse.

Also pretty much all clases aside from DK & Warden have nothing to offer as a tank.
I miss my Hybrid NB Sap Tank...

So you'd rather hold block 24/7 while using a taunt every 20 (?) seconds? Oh wait, you wouldn't even have to block since your build would probably look like this: resistances at cap and about 60k hp...

MattT1988

Drako_Ei wrote: »

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

What's wrong with a destro/resto back bar on a tank?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with it, im not saying "REMOVE STAVES FROM THE GAME", they are fine. I just want more options for tanking, i personally think a staff is the last weapon a tank on heavy armor, it just feels wrong to some.

1h and shield + 2h backbar
double 1h and shield

make more sense than (using our common sense and not ZoS'):

1h and shield + mage's staff

I just want more options, i was fine using double 1h and shield, i knew lightning staff was meta because of the offbalance, but i could live with that, but now its mandatory for vet trials (either ice of lightning) because of the 1h enchant nerf. I used to love tanking vet trials, but they took the option i was using away, i cant bring myself to use a staff on my main character... but that renders turogs useless.

So yeah.. nothing wrong with destro/restro backbar, but can we have destro/restro + MORE OPTIONS for backbar?

A few people have said this. I still don’t get why though.

Drako_Ei

Make 2H swords the stamina version of lightning staves (Change unused morphs to give group utility like Wreckling blow: offbalance/Stampede: ranged interrumpt, offbalance if interrumpt/Carve: minor maim)

Protossyder wrote: »

Even though we cry about nerfes happening all the time, the dps increased every patch which made content easier. Reducing the effectiveness of 1 handed weapons was the right step. Most players adapted anyways by now....

The DPS stayed the same, if this was intended to be a DPS nerf, it went the wrong way, because trial groups force tanks to run lightning or frost staff now, so dps stayed the same, but tanks are crippled with a mage's staff.

Protossyder wrote: »

...Aside from that: Many tanks were using different weapons on their back bars for ages already.
E.g.: Bow (dot tank), Healing staff (vDSA with 3 stam dds for example), Frost staff (for mag based tanking), Lightning staff (for off balance and more utility)...

Dot tank is not good, since the damage added is so minimum, the only difference between staff and 1h and shield, is the offbalance (which is very low because we dont run charged, we run infused trait), and the ranged interrumpt.

Protossyder wrote: »

Having more variety isn't a bad thing, get over it. And if you didn't care about providing more utility to your group by using anything different than the old double SnB before I really doubt that you truly care about 1k less penetration now.

I agree, having more variety isn't a bad thing, so lets add MORE!
And there is no need to claim false things about me, i wouldnt wear my turogs, my alkosh, slot my horn bla bla bla if i didnt care about my group, so no, you are lying here, stop being toxic.

Protossyder wrote: »

PS: healers can use infused crushing too.

But they wont be using turogs, plus a healer with crushing is rare

Drako_Ei

Make 2H swords the stamina version of lightning staves (Change unused morphs to give group utility like Wreckling blow: offbalance/Stampede: ranged interrumpt, offbalance if interrumpt/Carve: minor maim)

MattT1988 wrote: »

Drako_Ei wrote: »

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

What's wrong with a destro/resto back bar on a tank?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with it, im not saying "REMOVE STAVES FROM THE GAME", they are fine. I just want more options for tanking, i personally think a staff is the last weapon a tank on heavy armor, it just feels wrong to some.

1h and shield + 2h backbar
double 1h and shield

make more sense than (using our common sense and not ZoS'):

1h and shield + mage's staff

I just want more options, i was fine using double 1h and shield, i knew lightning staff was meta because of the offbalance, but i could live with that, but now its mandatory for vet trials (either ice of lightning) because of the 1h enchant nerf. I used to love tanking vet trials, but they took the option i was using away, i cant bring myself to use a staff on my main character... but that renders turogs useless.

So yeah.. nothing wrong with destro/restro backbar, but can we have destro/restro + MORE OPTIONS for backbar?

A few people have said this. I still don’t get why though.

If i was a fragile mage, it would make sense to use a magic sparky staff
If i was a sturdy tank in heavy armor, it would make sense to use weapons and a shield

There is the option to be a mage tank, but this 1h and shield enchant nerf is just enforcing us to run staves, which sucks for some people.

Tommy_The_Gun

Other (Comment your idea)

Protossyder wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Honestly ? IDK. I think at this point the only way would be to make a cemplete tanking and dungeon mechanics overhaul.

I remember how tank role used to look like in the past. Compared to what it is now, tanks have been reduced simply to buff spammers. End game tanking is getting worse & worse.

Also pretty much all clases aside from DK & Warden have nothing to offer as a tank.
I miss my Hybrid NB Sap Tank...

So you'd rather hold block 24/7 while using a taunt every 20 (?) seconds? Oh wait, you wouldn't even have to block since your build would probably look like this: resistances at cap and about 60k hp...

Nope. Like I said in my 1st post I prefer NB sap tank, that was slowly beeing killed by ZOS to the point when it has become an old legend that such a play style existed. It was the most dynamic play style for tank that ever was. Static 24/7 shield holding is a job for DK. NB tanking was awesome, but unfortunately it is dead.

MartiniDaniels

Revert 1h enchantment nerf for tanking (Give 1h and shield passives a 100% buff to weapon enchantments, or at least only to crusher/weakening, or give us the option to exchange the shield enchant for a full sword enchant)

Gandalf tanked Balrog with staff backbar just fine, but then was chained and put off-balance

Though I would like to see new arena weapons for tanking, I doubt that it may happen, so i'm for more realistic variant of returning full power enchantment to S&B at price of shield enchantment for example.

Protossyder

Other (Comment your idea)

@Tommy_The_Gun

Basically you want a lightning staff that looks like a two hander, but with other animations, just because you don't like the feeling? Alright.

John_Falstaff

@Protossyder , the issue with having crusher from WoE is that it's tricky to target it with ground AoEs when adds are around. Crusher will only proc on one target - the closest one at the moment of WoE cast - and will latch onto that target until WoE is recast. And to add insult to injury, ESO's proximity calculation is a marvel of randomness, I often see my FoO fireball going astray even when I'm literally hugging the boss. And especially if tank just chained in and rooted the adds, there's a chance that the crusher will proc on wrong target.

Dragneel1207

Revert 1h enchantment nerf for tanking (Give 1h and shield passives a 100% buff to weapon enchantments, or at least only to crusher/weakening, or give us the option to exchange the shield enchant for a full sword enchant)

Protossyder wrote: »

Even though we cry about nerfes happening all the time, the dps increased every patch which made content easier. Reducing the effectiveness of 1 handed weapons was the right step. Most players adapted anyways by now.

Aside from that: Many tanks were using different weapons on their back bars for ages already.
E.g.: Bow (dot tank), Healing staff (vDSA with 3 stam dds for example), Frost staff (for mag based tanking), Lightning staff (for off balance and more utility)

Having more variety isn't a bad thing, get over it. And if you didn't care about providing more utility to your group by using anything different than the old double SnB before I really doubt that you truly care about 1k less penetration now.

PS: healers can use infused crushing too.

U have not tanked

Myrkgrav

I like my staff personally. IDK what the big hangup is about backbar staff. Is it an aesthetic thing that's bugging people? Cause only wizards use staves?

david_m_18b16_ESO

Revert 1h enchantment nerf for tanking (Give 1h and shield passives a 100% buff to weapon enchantments, or at least only to crusher/weakening, or give us the option to exchange the shield enchant for a full sword enchant)

Protossyder wrote: »

Having more variety isn't a bad thing, get over it.

The problem is they shortened the variety with this change. PvE its destro staff all the way.

ESO is probably the tripple A game with the lowest amounth of variety for PvE.

Protossyder

Other (Comment your idea)

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Protossyder , the issue with having crusher from WoE is that it's tricky to target it with ground AoEs when adds are around. Crusher will only proc on one target - the closest one at the moment of WoE cast - and will latch onto that target until WoE is recast. And to add insult to injury, ESO's proximity calculation is a marvel of randomness, I often see my FoO fireball going astray even when I'm literally hugging the boss. And especially if tank just chained in and rooted the adds, there's a chance that the crusher will proc on wrong target.

Yes, I am fully aware of that.

Dragneel1207 wrote: »

Protossyder wrote: »

Even though we cry about nerfes happening all the time, the dps increased every patch which made content easier. Reducing the effectiveness of 1 handed weapons was the right step. Most players adapted anyways by now.

Aside from that: Many tanks were using different weapons on their back bars for ages already.
E.g.: Bow (dot tank), Healing staff (vDSA with 3 stam dds for example), Frost staff (for mag based tanking), Lightning staff (for off balance and more utility)

Having more variety isn't a bad thing, get over it. And if you didn't care about providing more utility to your group by using anything different than the old double SnB before I really doubt that you truly care about 1k less penetration now.

PS: healers can use infused crushing too.

U have not tanked

Oh, I did and do. I even have a froststaff/flamestaff mag dk off tank for vCR+X who deals up to 30k, but he is still in testing phase.

Kulvar

Other (Comment your idea)

Halved enchants is not an issue. Tanking issues lies elsewhere.

david_m_18b16_ESO

Revert 1h enchantment nerf for tanking (Give 1h and shield passives a 100% buff to weapon enchantments, or at least only to crusher/weakening, or give us the option to exchange the shield enchant for a full sword enchant)

Protossyder wrote: »

Oh, I did and do. I even have a froststaff/flamestaff mag dk off tank for vCR+X who deals up to 30k, but he is still in testing phase.

I don't want to be rude so I am asking you a question.

Is this character almost at or at 810CP and have top gears ? I mean, do you wear the kind of item quality that would make a traditional S and B tank have a walk in the park ?

What I mean is that it does seems this game have no virety on tank for progression. Everyones is the same dam copy and only once you get good enough gear you can try something different while doing content that is now, easy for your group and/or yourself.

If not then thats good news.

Itzmichi

I can't understand the problems at all staves were a thing way back already.

david_m_18b16_ESO

Revert 1h enchantment nerf for tanking (Give 1h and shield passives a 100% buff to weapon enchantments, or at least only to crusher/weakening, or give us the option to exchange the shield enchant for a full sword enchant)

Itsmichi wrote: »

I can't understand the problems at all staves were a thing way back already.

The problem is not that staff are viable. its that they are BIS no mather your build.

srfrogg23

Other (Comment your idea)

It affects all tanks equally. You're not gimped when everyone is gimped.

The nerf is in your imagination.

Kidgangster101

MattT1988 wrote: »

Drako_Ei wrote: »

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

What's wrong with a destro/resto back bar on a tank?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with it, im not saying "REMOVE STAVES FROM THE GAME", they are fine. I just want more options for tanking, i personally think a staff is the last weapon a tank on heavy armor, it just feels wrong to some.

1h and shield + 2h backbar
double 1h and shield

make more sense than (using our common sense and not ZoS'):

1h and shield + mage's staff

I just want more options, i was fine using double 1h and shield, i knew lightning staff was meta because of the offbalance, but i could live with that, but now its mandatory for vet trials (either ice of lightning) because of the 1h enchant nerf. I used to love tanking vet trials, but they took the option i was using away, i cant bring myself to use a staff on my main character... but that renders turogs useless.

So yeah.. nothing wrong with destro/restro backbar, but can we have destro/restro + MORE OPTIONS for backbar?

A few people have said this. I still don’t get why though.

People have said it because casters play casters and use staffs, but when you pick a big bulky tank rocking heavy armor the last weapon you would think of them using is a staff it does look weird. I do it because it is mandatory pretty much now but I would rather use a 2h sword or even axe on my tank. Their should be a rework to brawler so that the dot from it can proc your enchantment much like bleeds, much like endless hail, and much like wall of elements.

If 2h weapons could proc your enchantment it could possibly open the door for this always using bow on your back bar as DPS meta also.

This game always tried to be unique in it's builds but now this is what we always get:
Dw/bow stam dps
Sns/staff tank
Destroyed/resto healer
Destroyed/destroyed magic dps

Idk seeing the same exact weapons and using same exact weapons get boring and I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking it.

Digiman

Other (Comment your idea)

Simple change the armor classes to become counter to each other... Light> Heavy> Medium> light

This whole fiasco started when heavy armor was buffed way to much for pvp and no really damage or peneration buff was added to the other armor types to help compensate it.

I don't mind tanks dealing damage in PvP, but when they are invulnerable you have a problem. Especially with particular builds.

Starlock

Other (Comment your idea)

The 1-handed enchantment change should have been handled through cool-downs, not through halving the effectiveness. The change as implemented has a negative impact on play styles beyond just competitive tanking.

Protossyder

Other (Comment your idea)

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

Protossyder wrote: »

Oh, I did and do. I even have a froststaff/flamestaff mag dk off tank for vCR+X who deals up to 30k, but he is still in testing phase.

I don't want to be rude so I am asking you a question.

Is this character almost at or at 810CP and have top gears ? I mean, do you wear the kind of item quality that would make a traditional S and B tank have a walk in the park ?

What I mean is that it does seems this game have no virety on tank for progression. Everyones is the same dam copy and only once you get good enough gear you can try something different while doing content that is now, easy for your group and/or yourself.

If not then thats good news.

Well, I am over cp 810 and have access to top gear (I also have a "normal" argonian dk tank with ebon/alkosh/torugs/etc.)

But this particular char only has ebon equipped as usual set since I always stay with the group while the other two tanks rotate. When the miniboss(es) spawn i taunt them and pull them to the main boss so that they get affected by Alkosh from the current main tank. My "tank" himself provides frost staff infused crusher (I can guarantee that it only is applied on the currently focused target), engulfing flames, horn (still need to lvl it tho, but It's in work) and up to 30k single target dps (If I am not aggroing the miniboss at this moment).
Of course I can join as traditional tank, but mine does the job, provides the same and even pre-wrathstone infused crusher and does dps. I still need to improve and optimize him a lot, but it works. I simply wanted to have more dps in the group and thought that 3 "real" tanks is overkill.

Mojmir

Revert 1h enchantment nerf for tanking (Give 1h and shield passives a 100% buff to weapon enchantments, or at least only to crusher/weakening, or give us the option to exchange the shield enchant for a full sword enchant)

simple solution, implement spears into the game and give them tank morphs

Protossyder

Other (Comment your idea)

Mojmir wrote: »

simple solution, implement spears into the game and give them tank morphs

Spears would actually be the perfect two handed version of daggers

srfrogg23

Other (Comment your idea)

Protossyder wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

simple solution, implement spears into the game and give them tank morphs

Spears would actually be the perfect two handed version of daggers

They should do one-handed and two-handed versions of spears. Running around with a shield and a one-handed spear like one of the Spartans from 300 would be pretty awesome.

Dual wielding spears would look weird, but whatever...