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Dear DK tank masters, please educate me

Kuramas9tails
Kuramas9tails
✭✭✭✭✭
Ok so, I been tanking for a bit and feel I have a good understanding but I was watching YT videos of tank builds and wow, there are a lot of variety of tank builds out there. Some that even I feel is misleading in some cases but I just shrug and think it's part of their play style and if it works, it works.

One thing I noticed a lot of was the difference between the resources people have. Some have high health with a lot of magic recovery while others are almost about even between all 3 resources (except I squint my eyes at high stam recovery builds because you can't recover stamina while blocking). I am referring to DK tanks specifically.

Someone with an inside/out knowledge of DK tank builds teach me a better understanding of the difference between all these builds and how I find what works best for my play style? I am trying to improve my tanking skills. And can someone explain the blocking math behind it all? I have 2 block cost reduction glyphs on and I find it amazing af, especially when bashing because it costs almost nothing for me to bash.
AD High Elf Mageblade DPS (General) -- Stormproof/VMOL, VHOF, VDSA completion
AD Khajiit Mageblade DPS -- Stormproof
FOR THE QUEEN!
Platinum
PS4/NA
  • PerArdua
    PerArdua
    ✭✭✭
    Ok it’s all about what you feel comfortable with . Starting out I suggest higher health as it gives you a “buffer” zone . As for the other stats it all depends on how you play . Spam lots of msg skills ? Maybe high mag regen will help (esp if you ice staff back bar) . Struggle with stam running out maybe higher stam pool . Best way to find out is play and adapt to your needs . There isn’t 1 way to set up that rules over all
  • Liofa
    Liofa
    Class Representative
    I prefer High Health with 0 recovery. While using Balance, you get rid of 2 important things while tanking. Major Resistance buffs and sustain. While not using Balance, you'll have to sacrifice a skill slot for Volatile Armour and lower your stats to invest Magicka Recovery or even worse, give up utility sets (especially monster sets) to gain Magicka Recovery. Of course you need to healer to pull this off which you will have most of the time so it's good.

    As for jewelry enchantments, I recommend Shield Play on all three. If you recently started tanking, you'll be holding block most of the time, until you learn fights better, what to block and not block etc.

    As for blocking math, just go here and you'll find everything you need: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?

    And here is an example build that will get you through pretty much every content in this game: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=122276

    Tag me if you have any questions.
    Liofa Daeron - Imperial DK PvE Tank / PvE Stamina DPS / PvP Stamina

    Youtube

    Guild Master of Call of the Undaunted
  • PerArdua
    PerArdua
    ✭✭✭
    Block cost reduction is quiet a bit of math tbh . There is a thread on the forum if you want the math but if you want just a figure try here but it is a case of diminishing returns
    https://blockcost.woeler.eu/
  • Kuramas9tails
    Kuramas9tails
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Liofa @PerArdua
    I ran my DK tank through some hard content. I am usually the go-to tank since I don't mind doing it and the others I usually complete dungeons with find tanking boring. I have completed all the DLC dungeons on vet (not HM nor the newest) and have completed VDSA. I found myself to be a decent tank but I do run out of magic a lot. I believe my heath is 38K, Stam at/around 25K and magic around 16K with over 1K magic recovery.

    I find I never run out of stamina because I constantly heavy attack when I know I can during the mechanic. The only time I run out of stamina is when I am being beating on constantly. This is why I also don't feel comfortable going with an ice staff because I feel like I have magic issues already and don't need anymore. And I don't use Balance as a skill. I feel I am too clumsy to use that and would end up putting myself in a bad spot and die if I did.

    I also run Ebon, Plague Doctor and depending on my group, I either run Chudan, a mix of Chudan/Pirate Skeleton or Earthgore (when healer is mostly DPSing). I don't find running Alkosh beneficial because I don't receive a bunch of synergies based on my groups comp for 4 man dungeons. If I was doing trials, I would understand wearing Alkosh (which I have...even the frost staff I held onto for years).

    Thoughts?

    And when we do complete the last boss on VDSA, we have the healer switch to a tank and have him tank the main boss at the gate entrance and I will come and take the 4 mini-bosses when they spawn. When I get all 4 on me, I usually die within a minute or three so it's a DPS race for the two DPS we have. I feel like I should be lasting longer there. I also looked up ways to 1 tank/3DPS VDSA and I have no idea how a tank would survive all that without part heals and the last boss.

    And how do you manage ads? I will get DPS complaining an ad is on them when I been busy working on grabbing the others. I will chain pull the ads and run out of magic at this time once I try to talon them on top of it. Am I doing something wrong or does a couple of stray ads not matter so much? Or is this mostly just depending on group comp?

    Thank you for your responses and replying to me. I am trying to become a better tank. I think I am good but can always improve.
    AD High Elf Mageblade DPS (General) -- Stormproof/VMOL, VHOF, VDSA completion
    AD Khajiit Mageblade DPS -- Stormproof
    FOR THE QUEEN!
    Platinum
    PS4/NA
  • AcadianPaladin
    AcadianPaladin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm happy with 40k health, 22k stam, 21k mag. Balancing mag and stam is a bit of an art. The 'balance' that works for me is using stam for pulling in (silver leash instead of chains) and the ranged taunt stam morph. Most of my magicka is then available for talons. Experiment with the mag/stam options of the ranged undaunted pull and chains(mag)/silver leash(stam) to find what works best for you.

    Fact of life is that if you try to pull in and lock down all adds, you'll run out of resources and things will go down hill from there. Obviously hold the boss but learn what your limits are on pulling in adds.
    PC NA PvE
  • pelle412
    pelle412
    ✭✭✭
    And how do you manage ads? I will get DPS complaining an ad is on them when I been busy working on grabbing the others. I will chain pull the ads and run out of magic at this time once I try to talon them on top of it. Am I doing something wrong or does a couple of stray ads not matter so much? Or is this mostly just depending on group comp?

    This part comes with experience. I can probably hold those adds indefinitely by combining magicka recovery, major mending buffs and green dragon blood. Find a rough spot somewhere in the game and go there and try to stay alive as long as you can and practice managing your resources. Use combat metrics to evaluate your use of skills and how much healing you can do.

    If you like to play without a healer, you can try battalion defender and combine it with Ebon and Earthgore. The amount of healing offered is usually plentiful to not be an issue.

  • Kuramas9tails
    Kuramas9tails
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    pelle412 wrote: »
    And how do you manage ads? I will get DPS complaining an ad is on them when I been busy working on grabbing the others. I will chain pull the ads and run out of magic at this time once I try to talon them on top of it. Am I doing something wrong or does a couple of stray ads not matter so much? Or is this mostly just depending on group comp?

    This part comes with experience. I can probably hold those adds indefinitely by combining magicka recovery, major mending buffs and green dragon blood. Find a rough spot somewhere in the game and go there and try to stay alive as long as you can and practice managing your resources. Use combat metrics to evaluate your use of skills and how much healing you can do.

    If you like to play without a healer, you can try battalion defender and combine it with Ebon and Earthgore. The amount of healing offered is usually plentiful to not be an issue.
    @pelle412, It's not so much that I don't like playing without a healer because I LOVE shards and getting that magicka steal for recovery but it's more like the group I run with, the healers mentality is DPS first, healing second. It's got us through a lot so I am not upset about it. I would like to be more independent on heals though so it is easier for our group comp.

    My BF is better at the stats and putting builds together so I will suggest battalion to him and see what he says. He is good at knowing where my limits are and helping me get better but he says I am one of the tanks he trusts in a dungeon (along with my healer) but I feel like I can always do better thus is why I am asking in the forums for any advice.

    I'm happy with 40k health, 22k stam, 21k mag. Balancing mag and stam is a bit of an art. The 'balance' that works for me is using stam for pulling in (silver leash instead of chains) and the ranged taunt stam morph. Most of my magicka is then available for talons. Experiment with the mag/stam options of the ranged undaunted pull and chains(mag)/silver leash(stam) to find what works best for you.

    Fact of life is that if you try to pull in and lock down all adds, you'll run out of resources and things will go down hill from there. Obviously hold the boss but learn what your limits are on pulling in adds.

    @AcadianPaladin I will look into the other morphs. Maybe even if i just switch one, it would help with magic since stamina is so much easier to recovery for me. And did they change the one morph of chains? I think I didn't go with the other morph because it chains you to them?
    Edited by Kuramas9tails on March 14, 2019 4:47PM
    AD High Elf Mageblade DPS (General) -- Stormproof/VMOL, VHOF, VDSA completion
    AD Khajiit Mageblade DPS -- Stormproof
    FOR THE QUEEN!
    Platinum
    PS4/NA
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    A couple of stray adds shouldn't matter that much as long as you are maintaining aggro on the priority targets - the minibosses and heavy-hitting adds that can one-shot your DDs or healer like the ones wielding 2handers. The rest get crowd controlled - I usually use talons. vDSA is a little different, since there are a lot more staggered add spawns and I had a much harder time with crowd control there than I do in dungeons. There, I commit to doing crowd control - Taunt on priority adds, then chains + talons everything else - and I really don't have time or resources to do anything else. As you say, it creates a DPS race where the DDs have to burn stuff down before I go down. If my DDs can't keep up, its usually better for me to focus on just the priority adds and let the DDs defeat the other adds in detail rather than trying to stack-n-burn more than we can actually feasibly burn.

    ZOS designed the dungeons for tanks to not be able to taunt everything, so your DDs and healers ought to be able to take a couple hits from adds.

    If you want a stam leash, the Fighters Guild skill Silver Leash is supposed to be similar to DK Chains. I actually haven't tried it out on a stam tank though, since my main tank is a MagDK. I'd be curious to see how useful it is.
  • AcadianPaladin
    AcadianPaladin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The DK has two good options for chaining/pulling in adds. The primary difference is the resource that fuels them. DK 'chains' (Unrelenting Grip morph of Fiery Grip) uses magicka, whereas Fighters Guild Silver Leash (morph of Silver Bolts) uses stamina.
    I used chains for quite a long time and struggled a bit with magicka so tried the Silver Leash skill and am happy with it.

    It is the Undaunted Inner Fire ranged taunt skill that offers magicka or stamina morphs. Choose the morph based on your stam/mag management requirements.
    Edited by AcadianPaladin on March 14, 2019 5:15PM
    PC NA PvE
  • Spartabunny08
    Spartabunny08
    ✭✭✭
    Fun fact: there are ways of getting stamina back while blocking. Warden netch returns stamina while blocking. Templar rune returns Stam while blocking. DragonKnight igneous shield while blocking returns stamina via passive. The more you know...
    Edited by Spartabunny08 on March 14, 2019 5:19PM
  • kylewwefan
    kylewwefan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Try you some bogdan the Nightflame. While standing in your cinderstorm. It procs a lot. Earthgore.....once every 40 seconds or so. Sentinel can proc every 15 seconds or so.

    I recently found warrior poet to be quite nice. Never liked it before for some reason.

    Resilient Yokeda is great; leeching, battalion defender, Cyrodil crest are ok.

    My tanks inventory space is always a problem.
    PlayStation NA
    1000+ CP
    DC Khajit NB Stormproof Flawless Conqueror
    DC Argonian Templar Stormproof Flawless Conqueror
    DC Dark Elf Sorc Stormproof
    DC High Elf NB Stormproof
    DC Dark Elf DK Stormproof
    AD Redguard DK Stormproof
    DC Orc Warden Stormproof
    DC Breton Warden Stormproof Flawless Conqueror
    DC Redguard Sorc Stormproof
    DC Redguard Templar Stormproof

    PlayStation EU
    258 CP
    DC Orc Warden Stormproof
  • kringled_1
    kringled_1
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    My approach to chains/talons: if I'm in a cluster of adds, talons has priority. Chains as I can, top is casting ranged mobs, then other ranged. If dps is being chased, in a lot of cases its more straightforward to run to the tank and let the tank talon them there. I don't have a lot of experience with silver leash but there's a couple of additional features of chains that I think makes it more versatile. The cost refund is nice in crowded pulls, if you get the wrong add. The refund and expedition is very nice in fights where you need to reposition a lot, like with bosses that teleport but don't otherwise move. As far as resources, if it's an add pull that isn't a threat to the tank (and you don't have to block much) I have no hesitation in burning through magicka trash potions.
    Hardly a master though.
    Edited by kringled_1 on March 14, 2019 5:47PM
  • Liofa
    Liofa
    Class Representative
    I ran my DK tank through some hard content. I am usually the go-to tank since I don't mind doing it and the others I usually complete dungeons with find tanking boring. I have completed all the DLC dungeons on vet (not HM nor the newest) and have completed VDSA. I found myself to be a decent tank but I do run out of magic a lot. I believe my heath is 38K, Stam at/around 25K and magic around 16K with over 1K magic recovery.

    I find I never run out of stamina because I constantly heavy attack when I know I can during the mechanic. The only time I run out of stamina is when I am being beating on constantly. This is why I also don't feel comfortable going with an ice staff because I feel like I have magic issues already and don't need anymore. And I don't use Balance as a skill. I feel I am too clumsy to use that and would end up putting myself in a bad spot and die if I did.

    I also run Ebon, Plague Doctor and depending on my group, I either run Chudan, a mix of Chudan/Pirate Skeleton or Earthgore (when healer is mostly DPSing). I don't find running Alkosh beneficial because I don't receive a bunch of synergies based on my groups comp for 4 man dungeons. If I was doing trials, I would understand wearing Alkosh (which I have...even the frost staff I held onto for years).

    Thoughts?

    And when we do complete the last boss on VDSA, we have the healer switch to a tank and have him tank the main boss at the gate entrance and I will come and take the 4 mini-bosses when they spawn. When I get all 4 on me, I usually die within a minute or three so it's a DPS race for the two DPS we have. I feel like I should be lasting longer there. I also looked up ways to 1 tank/3DPS VDSA and I have no idea how a tank would survive all that without part heals and the last boss.

    And how do you manage ads? I will get DPS complaining an ad is on them when I been busy working on grabbing the others. I will chain pull the ads and run out of magic at this time once I try to talon them on top of it. Am I doing something wrong or does a couple of stray ads not matter so much? Or is this mostly just depending on group comp?

    Thank you for your responses and replying to me. I am trying to become a better tank. I think I am good but can always improve.

    You are not supposed to take the first passive of Destruction Staff. That makes sure that you still use Stamina on Frost Staff bar. Only block cost difference will be the sturdy trait on your shield which is very small.

    Balance takes practice until you learn how to use it but once you do, it's the best. It costs only 5.1k Health which is basically one tick of Springs. If you have a somewhat decent healer in your group, you won't even see your health going down, which is why it's amazing in trials. Because you have 2 healers. In majority of trial fights, you can literally spam balance and still won't die thanks to the insane healing taken we already have. Even though I still use Balance even in no healer 4 man runs, I understand why you wouldn't want to use it.

    In DSA, you want to pull the boss to entrance. After you take minis, go to where boss spawns. You won't get hit by any of the flames there. So much easier to survive if you don't have to worry about dodging those.

    How you handle adds is completely dependant on your Magicka sustain. I prefer to use Blockade of Frost for the 60% snare instead of Talons because it costs less and lasts longer. Adds are designed in a way that even if they hit your allies, they are not supposed to kill. It doesn't matter if one or two are hitting your allies. They should stay in the group and let the healer do his job. Blockade also procs my enchantments. I don't have Minor Maim obviously but I prefer to use Thurvokun in trash fights anyway. It's such an amazing set that holds 100% uptime on all trash fights very easily.
    Liofa Daeron - Imperial DK PvE Tank / PvE Stamina DPS / PvP Stamina

    Youtube

    Guild Master of Call of the Undaunted
  • Kuramas9tails
    Kuramas9tails
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Fun fact: there are ways of getting stamina back while blocking. Warden netch returns stamina while blocking. Templar rune returns Stam while blocking. DragonKnight igneous shield while blocking returns stamina via passive. The more you know...
    @Spartabunny08 I know that on the DK but I am referring to the Stamina recovery base. Stamina recovery does not activate while you are blocking so increasing the amount you get via stats seem pointless to me and faster/easier to heavy attack to get stamina back.
    Liofa wrote: »
    I ran my DK tank through some hard content. I am usually the go-to tank since I don't mind doing it and the others I usually complete dungeons with find tanking boring. I have completed all the DLC dungeons on vet (not HM nor the newest) and have completed VDSA. I found myself to be a decent tank but I do run out of magic a lot. I believe my heath is 38K, Stam at/around 25K and magic around 16K with over 1K magic recovery.

    I find I never run out of stamina because I constantly heavy attack when I know I can during the mechanic. The only time I run out of stamina is when I am being beating on constantly. This is why I also don't feel comfortable going with an ice staff because I feel like I have magic issues already and don't need anymore. And I don't use Balance as a skill. I feel I am too clumsy to use that and would end up putting myself in a bad spot and die if I did.

    I also run Ebon, Plague Doctor and depending on my group, I either run Chudan, a mix of Chudan/Pirate Skeleton or Earthgore (when healer is mostly DPSing). I don't find running Alkosh beneficial because I don't receive a bunch of synergies based on my groups comp for 4 man dungeons. If I was doing trials, I would understand wearing Alkosh (which I have...even the frost staff I held onto for years).

    Thoughts?

    And when we do complete the last boss on VDSA, we have the healer switch to a tank and have him tank the main boss at the gate entrance and I will come and take the 4 mini-bosses when they spawn. When I get all 4 on me, I usually die within a minute or three so it's a DPS race for the two DPS we have. I feel like I should be lasting longer there. I also looked up ways to 1 tank/3DPS VDSA and I have no idea how a tank would survive all that without part heals and the last boss.

    And how do you manage ads? I will get DPS complaining an ad is on them when I been busy working on grabbing the others. I will chain pull the ads and run out of magic at this time once I try to talon them on top of it. Am I doing something wrong or does a couple of stray ads not matter so much? Or is this mostly just depending on group comp?

    Thank you for your responses and replying to me. I am trying to become a better tank. I think I am good but can always improve.

    You are not supposed to take the first passive of Destruction Staff. That makes sure that you still use Stamina on Frost Staff bar. Only block cost difference will be the sturdy trait on your shield which is very small.

    Balance takes practice until you learn how to use it but once you do, it's the best. It costs only 5.1k Health which is basically one tick of Springs. If you have a somewhat decent healer in your group, you won't even see your health going down, which is why it's amazing in trials. Because you have 2 healers. In majority of trial fights, you can literally spam balance and still won't die thanks to the insane healing taken we already have. Even though I still use Balance even in no healer 4 man runs, I understand why you wouldn't want to use it.

    In DSA, you want to pull the boss to entrance. After you take minis, go to where boss spawns. You won't get hit by any of the flames there. So much easier to survive if you don't have to worry about dodging those.

    How you handle adds is completely dependant on your Magicka sustain. I prefer to use Blockade of Frost for the 60% snare instead of Talons because it costs less and lasts longer. Adds are designed in a way that even if they hit your allies, they are not supposed to kill. It doesn't matter if one or two are hitting your allies. They should stay in the group and let the healer do his job. Blockade also procs my enchantments. I don't have Minor Maim obviously but I prefer to use Thurvokun in trash fights anyway. It's such an amazing set that holds 100% uptime on all trash fights very easily.
    @Liofa I will look into the Frost Staff as an option but I am hesitant on trying it simply because the passives of destro doesn't aid nearly as much as S&B. I might try it just to see how feel about it. Maybe I will like it.
    Edited by Kuramas9tails on March 15, 2019 12:36PM
    AD High Elf Mageblade DPS (General) -- Stormproof/VMOL, VHOF, VDSA completion
    AD Khajiit Mageblade DPS -- Stormproof
    FOR THE QUEEN!
    Platinum
    PS4/NA
  • Kesstryl
    Kesstryl
    ✭✭✭
    Fun fact: there are ways of getting stamina back while blocking. Warden netch returns stamina while blocking. Templar rune returns Stam while blocking. DragonKnight igneous shield while blocking returns stamina via passive. The more you know...
    @Spartabunny08 I know that on the DK but I am referring to the Stamina recovery base. Stamina recovery does not activate while you are blocking so increasing the amount you get via stats seem pointless to me and faster/easier to heavy attack to get stamina back.
    Liofa wrote: »
    I ran my DK tank through some hard content. I am usually the go-to tank since I don't mind doing it and the others I usually complete dungeons with find tanking boring. I have completed all the DLC dungeons on vet (not HM nor the newest) and have completed VDSA. I found myself to be a decent tank but I do run out of magic a lot. I believe my heath is 38K, Stam at/around 25K and magic around 16K with over 1K magic recovery.

    I find I never run out of stamina because I constantly heavy attack when I know I can during the mechanic. The only time I run out of stamina is when I am being beating on constantly. This is why I also don't feel comfortable going with an ice staff because I feel like I have magic issues already and don't need anymore. And I don't use Balance as a skill. I feel I am too clumsy to use that and would end up putting myself in a bad spot and die if I did.

    I also run Ebon, Plague Doctor and depending on my group, I either run Chudan, a mix of Chudan/Pirate Skeleton or Earthgore (when healer is mostly DPSing). I don't find running Alkosh beneficial because I don't receive a bunch of synergies based on my groups comp for 4 man dungeons. If I was doing trials, I would understand wearing Alkosh (which I have...even the frost staff I held onto for years).

    Thoughts?

    And when we do complete the last boss on VDSA, we have the healer switch to a tank and have him tank the main boss at the gate entrance and I will come and take the 4 mini-bosses when they spawn. When I get all 4 on me, I usually die within a minute or three so it's a DPS race for the two DPS we have. I feel like I should be lasting longer there. I also looked up ways to 1 tank/3DPS VDSA and I have no idea how a tank would survive all that without part heals and the last boss.

    And how do you manage ads? I will get DPS complaining an ad is on them when I been busy working on grabbing the others. I will chain pull the ads and run out of magic at this time once I try to talon them on top of it. Am I doing something wrong or does a couple of stray ads not matter so much? Or is this mostly just depending on group comp?

    Thank you for your responses and replying to me. I am trying to become a better tank. I think I am good but can always improve.

    You are not supposed to take the first passive of Destruction Staff. That makes sure that you still use Stamina on Frost Staff bar. Only block cost difference will be the sturdy trait on your shield which is very small.

    Balance takes practice until you learn how to use it but once you do, it's the best. It costs only 5.1k Health which is basically one tick of Springs. If you have a somewhat decent healer in your group, you won't even see your health going down, which is why it's amazing in trials. Because you have 2 healers. In majority of trial fights, you can literally spam balance and still won't die thanks to the insane healing taken we already have. Even though I still use Balance even in no healer 4 man runs, I understand why you wouldn't want to use it.

    In DSA, you want to pull the boss to entrance. After you take minis, go to where boss spawns. You won't get hit by any of the flames there. So much easier to survive if you don't have to worry about dodging those.

    How you handle adds is completely dependant on your Magicka sustain. I prefer to use Blockade of Frost for the 60% snare instead of Talons because it costs less and lasts longer. Adds are designed in a way that even if they hit your allies, they are not supposed to kill. It doesn't matter if one or two are hitting your allies. They should stay in the group and let the healer do his job. Blockade also procs my enchantments. I don't have Minor Maim obviously but I prefer to use Thurvokun in trash fights anyway. It's such an amazing set that holds 100% uptime on all trash fights very easily.
    @Liofa I will look into the Frost Staff as an option but I am hesitant on trying it simply because the passives of destro doesn't aid nearly as much as S&B. I might try it just to see how feel about it. Maybe I will like it.

    The new meta is to run crusher on the frost staff on your backbar, and sword and board front bar. You should have an infused frost staff on your back bar for crusher. Use the staff for crowd control and to hit with crusher which will help your dps friends to hit harder. You will have to get used to bar switching frequently, but it's more effective than double S&B.
    HEARTHLIGHT - A guild for housing enthusiasts!

  • KhajiitFelix
    KhajiitFelix
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    My tank runs torug and ebon armory and he is doing fine. He is an argonian with 38k HP 20k stamina 15k magicka and 600 recovery in each recourse.
    NO PVPERS ALLOWED
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