Ritual of Rebirth costs too much

Jeremy

Not much here, and like the title suggest. Been trying to use this spell as a substitute for breath of life since in theory anyway it could be used as a radial burst heal to keep party members who are intelligent enough to stay inside the healer's area of effect and whether or not they are behind you. But the spell is just so damn expensive.

Since the developers were cruel to Templars and attached a directional targeting limitation on breath of life I believe they should consider significantly reducing the cost of this spell so it might be used as a substitute to effectively heal allies who are both in front and behind the Templar.

zvavi

Not sure if you are joking or not. Templars are BiS for healers, other classes has nothing on them healing wise. And you want to add more kit to them?

Joosef_Kivikilpi

zvavi wrote: »

Not sure if you are joking or not. Templars are BiS for healers, other classes has nothing on them healing wise. And you want to add more kit to them?

Mmmh, my Nightblade healer could contest that.

Koolio

In PvP 4-8 man with a Templar using that move can be amazing even with that cost. In Heavy with seducer it’s at like 6.2 k. That can be 12 BOL instantly for the cost of 1.5 BOL.

Baconlad

magplar are BIS for troll tank heal builds. which, as a magplar DPS main for five years wish would change. I dispise that BOL is the reason that my defense has been gutted.

ritual of ret needs a lot more than a cost decrease. it's a good idea, but no magplar PVE/ PVP wise is going to be dumb enough to choose it. about the ONLY thing it does the other morph doesn't is NB detection...

ritual of ret IMO should do more damage if that the route they want to take. only cleansing 2 effects for the ridiculous cost is horrible, couple that with insanely weak damage numbers...why?

hell take the heal away from RoR, buff the damage by ALOT, lower the cost, and return five effects
the main purge everyone uses could get a equal buff to healing done on it


OR make ROR a stamina morph, since you don't want to give stamplar better healing, atleast give them a 5 effect cleanse they can use their main stat for.

Taleof2Cities

I use the skill in PvP healing occasionally, too, without issues.

“Too expensive” is often translated as “I still have work to do on my build ... especially when it comes to sustain.”

Drdeath20

Its not a very efficient skill. A perfect candidate for a complete change.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Koolio wrote: »

In PvP 4-8 man with a Templar using that move can be amazing even with that cost. In Heavy with seducer it’s at like 6.2 k. That can be 12 BOL instantly for the cost of 1.5 BOL.

The skill can only hit 6-7(if you have ritual of rebirth) people at a time. Like every other AOE heal in the game.

Ritual of rebirth is the lesser morph in my opinion, the speed boost of hasty prayer is much more useful.

Jeremy

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I use the skill in PvP healing occasionally, too, without issues.

“Too expensive” is often translated as “I still have work to do on my build ... especially when it comes to sustain.”

Nah. It's too expensive period. I don't care what your build is.

Drdeath20

if i was healing a ball group i would prefer to use healing springs that way we can constantly walk through a heal.

Templars have gotten tremendously better over the last few patches but we still have alot that needs to change.

Healing ritual just needs to be something else. At this point i dont care but what it is now just seems silly to me.

Taleof2Cities

Jeremy wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I use the skill in PvP healing occasionally, too, without issues.

“Too expensive” is often translated as “I still have work to do on my build ... especially when it comes to sustain.”

Nah. It's too expensive period. I don't care what your build is.

Oh really?

Do you avoid any spell that’s too high a cost ... such as cleanse, magelight, orbs, or cleansing ritual?

Those are expensive spells, too.

Why pick ritual of rebirth out of all of those skills?

Somnilux

[deleted comments]

Jeremy

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I use the skill in PvP healing occasionally, too, without issues.

“Too expensive” is often translated as “I still have work to do on my build ... especially when it comes to sustain.”

Nah. It's too expensive period. I don't care what your build is.

Oh really?

Do you avoid any spell that’s too high a cost ... such as cleanse, magelight, orbs, or cleansing ritual?

Those are expensive spells, too.

Why pick ritual of rebirth out of all of those skills?

Ritual of Rebirth is more expensive than Ritual of Retribution/Cleansing.

And I explained why I "picked" Ritual of Rebirth. So if you want an answer to that question, simply go re-read my OP. I explain it there.

Jeremy

Baconlad wrote: »

magplar are BIS for troll tank heal builds. which, as a magplar DPS main for five years wish would change. I dispise that BOL is the reason that my defense has been gutted.

ritual of ret needs a lot more than a cost decrease. it's a good idea, but no magplar PVE/ PVP wise is going to be dumb enough to choose it. about the ONLY thing it does the other morph doesn't is NB detection...

ritual of ret IMO should do more damage if that the route they want to take. only cleansing 2 effects for the ridiculous cost is horrible, couple that with insanely weak damage numbers...why?

hell take the heal away from RoR, buff the damage by ALOT, lower the cost, and return five effects
the main purge everyone uses could get a equal buff to healing done on it


OR make ROR a stamina morph, since you don't want to give stamplar better healing, atleast give them a 5 effect cleanse they can use their main stat for.

I was talking about Ritual of Rebirth, not Retribution.

The actual healing on it is fine in my opinion. It's the cost that makes it ineffective. If they were to reduce it significantly it might could be used as short range area heal for those who are staying inside your ritual of retribution though.

Jeremy

zvavi wrote: »

Not sure if you are joking or not. Templars are BiS for healers, other classes has nothing on them healing wise. And you want to add more kit to them?

Well if that is true, it's not due to Ritual of Rebirth. That I can promise you.

Jeremy

Koolio wrote: »

In PvP 4-8 man with a Templar using that move can be amazing even with that cost. In Heavy with seducer it’s at like 6.2 k. That can be 12 BOL instantly for the cost of 1.5 BOL.

Maybe in PvP it has some uses. I can't really say as I don't play as a healer in PvP.

But as it relates to PvE the spell needs some work.

soniku4ikblis

At 2500 sustain on a Magplar Healer, RoR is easy to maintain in PVP along with Healing Springs for a ball group and PvDoor.

If I spec for 3000+ sustain, the skill becomes a non-issue. I play as a High Elf currently, but when I was a Breton after the recent racial passives change, Breton really made the skill a non-issue.

I have been able to keep my groups alive with 20-30 Army of Purple battles and win.

RoR + HS and Extended Ritual are really quite awesome too if you have to stand your ground at inner keep on a choke point or on the roof.

If you spec yourself to maintain the spell, it's really amazing. I only use it when I either Heal Tank or run LA in a group as a main healer.

Jeremy

soniku4ikblis wrote: »

At 2500 sustain on a Magplar Healer, RoR is easy to maintain in PVP along with Healing Springs for a ball group and PvDoor.

If I spec for 3000+ sustain, the skill becomes a non-issue. I play as a High Elf currently, but when I was a Breton after the recent racial passives change, Breton really made the skill a non-issue.

I have been able to keep my groups alive with 20-30 Army of Purple battles and win.

RoR + HS and Extended Ritual are really quite awesome too if you have to stand your ground at inner keep on a choke point or on the roof.

If you spec yourself to maintain the spell, it's really amazing. I only use it when I either Heal Tank or run LA in a group as a main healer.

I'm talking about PvE. If you say it's good in PvP I'm willing to take your word for it. But for PvE it needs some work. It's limited range combined with it's high costs makes it a poor substitute for breath of life even if I reserve my healing for those who stay near me.

And I don't even want to imagine playing a healer in PvP who is built to have over 3,000 magicka regen. I hope for your sake you have an army protecting you because one stun/ burst from a good damage dealer that's all she wrote with so much of your character's potential stats going toward regen.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Jeremy wrote: »

soniku4ikblis wrote: »

At 2500 sustain on a Magplar Healer, RoR is easy to maintain in PVP along with Healing Springs for a ball group and PvDoor.

If I spec for 3000+ sustain, the skill becomes a non-issue. I play as a High Elf currently, but when I was a Breton after the recent racial passives change, Breton really made the skill a non-issue.

I have been able to keep my groups alive with 20-30 Army of Purple battles and win.

RoR + HS and Extended Ritual are really quite awesome too if you have to stand your ground at inner keep on a choke point or on the roof.

If you spec yourself to maintain the spell, it's really amazing. I only use it when I either Heal Tank or run LA in a group as a main healer.

I'm talking about PvE. If you say it's good in PvP I'm willing to take your word for it. But for PvE it needs some work. It's limited range combined with it's high costs makes it a poor substitute for breath of life even if I reserve my healing for those who stay near me.

And I don't even want to imagine playing a healer in PvP who is built to have over 3,000 magicka regen. I hope for your sake you have an army protecting you because one stun/ burst from a good damage dealer that's all she wrote with so much of your character's potential stats going toward regen.

You are trying to use the skill wrong if you are using it as a breath replacement. That is as simple as it gets.

Jeremy

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

soniku4ikblis wrote: »

At 2500 sustain on a Magplar Healer, RoR is easy to maintain in PVP along with Healing Springs for a ball group and PvDoor.

If I spec for 3000+ sustain, the skill becomes a non-issue. I play as a High Elf currently, but when I was a Breton after the recent racial passives change, Breton really made the skill a non-issue.

I have been able to keep my groups alive with 20-30 Army of Purple battles and win.

RoR + HS and Extended Ritual are really quite awesome too if you have to stand your ground at inner keep on a choke point or on the roof.

If you spec yourself to maintain the spell, it's really amazing. I only use it when I either Heal Tank or run LA in a group as a main healer.

I'm talking about PvE. If you say it's good in PvP I'm willing to take your word for it. But for PvE it needs some work. It's limited range combined with it's high costs makes it a poor substitute for breath of life even if I reserve my healing for those who stay near me.

And I don't even want to imagine playing a healer in PvP who is built to have over 3,000 magicka regen. I hope for your sake you have an army protecting you because one stun/ burst from a good damage dealer that's all she wrote with so much of your character's potential stats going toward regen.

You are trying to use the skill wrong if you are using it as a breath replacement. That is as simple as it gets.

What good is it then if it can't replace breath of life as a short ranged area alternative?

soniku4ikblis

Jeremy wrote: »

soniku4ikblis wrote: »

At 2500 sustain on a Magplar Healer, RoR is easy to maintain in PVP along with Healing Springs for a ball group and PvDoor.

If I spec for 3000+ sustain, the skill becomes a non-issue. I play as a High Elf currently, but when I was a Breton after the recent racial passives change, Breton really made the skill a non-issue.

I have been able to keep my groups alive with 20-30 Army of Purple battles and win.

RoR + HS and Extended Ritual are really quite awesome too if you have to stand your ground at inner keep on a choke point or on the roof.

If you spec yourself to maintain the spell, it's really amazing. I only use it when I either Heal Tank or run LA in a group as a main healer.

I'm talking about PvE. If you say it's good in PvP I'm willing to take your word for it. But for PvE it needs some work. It's limited range combined with it's high costs makes it a poor substitute for breath of life even if I reserve my healing for those who stay near me.

And I don't even want to imagine playing a healer in PvP who is built to have over 3,000 magicka regen. I hope for your sake you have an army protecting you because one stun/ burst from a good damage dealer that's all she wrote with so much of your character's potential stats going toward regen.

Mitigating stuns in a ball-group is pretty easy.

Mitigating stuns in non-ball group with heavy armor is even easier. Getting stunned is a non-issue because you can break out of it and hit your heals and tank for x seconds if needed.

I use RoR in PVE all the time and have no trouble keeping people alive with that spell and Healing Springs.

I've been able to keep a 6-10 people alive, in 20FPS 250L in Cyrodiil on a hill, being zerged by 3 directions, spamming my rotations. That battle lasted well over 10 minutes. I was using Efficient Purge also, at 4800ish a pop.

It takes 1 set to reach the level or regen I need to perform. It's not difficult.

Maybe if you provided specific examples of situations where the skill isn't working due to the cost and it's function.

I'm not convinced of your argument.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Jeremy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

soniku4ikblis wrote: »

At 2500 sustain on a Magplar Healer, RoR is easy to maintain in PVP along with Healing Springs for a ball group and PvDoor.

If I spec for 3000+ sustain, the skill becomes a non-issue. I play as a High Elf currently, but when I was a Breton after the recent racial passives change, Breton really made the skill a non-issue.

I have been able to keep my groups alive with 20-30 Army of Purple battles and win.

RoR + HS and Extended Ritual are really quite awesome too if you have to stand your ground at inner keep on a choke point or on the roof.

If you spec yourself to maintain the spell, it's really amazing. I only use it when I either Heal Tank or run LA in a group as a main healer.

I'm talking about PvE. If you say it's good in PvP I'm willing to take your word for it. But for PvE it needs some work. It's limited range combined with it's high costs makes it a poor substitute for breath of life even if I reserve my healing for those who stay near me.

And I don't even want to imagine playing a healer in PvP who is built to have over 3,000 magicka regen. I hope for your sake you have an army protecting you because one stun/ burst from a good damage dealer that's all she wrote with so much of your character's potential stats going toward regen.

You are trying to use the skill wrong if you are using it as a breath replacement. That is as simple as it gets.

What good is it then if it can't replace breath of life as a short ranged area alternative?

The point of the skill is to be a burst heal for at least 4 people. If you use it like that, it is great. If you use it like breath, were you only need to burst 1 or 2 people, you are going to have a bad time.

Jeremy

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

soniku4ikblis wrote: »

At 2500 sustain on a Magplar Healer, RoR is easy to maintain in PVP along with Healing Springs for a ball group and PvDoor.

If I spec for 3000+ sustain, the skill becomes a non-issue. I play as a High Elf currently, but when I was a Breton after the recent racial passives change, Breton really made the skill a non-issue.

I have been able to keep my groups alive with 20-30 Army of Purple battles and win.

RoR + HS and Extended Ritual are really quite awesome too if you have to stand your ground at inner keep on a choke point or on the roof.

If you spec yourself to maintain the spell, it's really amazing. I only use it when I either Heal Tank or run LA in a group as a main healer.

I'm talking about PvE. If you say it's good in PvP I'm willing to take your word for it. But for PvE it needs some work. It's limited range combined with it's high costs makes it a poor substitute for breath of life even if I reserve my healing for those who stay near me.

And I don't even want to imagine playing a healer in PvP who is built to have over 3,000 magicka regen. I hope for your sake you have an army protecting you because one stun/ burst from a good damage dealer that's all she wrote with so much of your character's potential stats going toward regen.

You are trying to use the skill wrong if you are using it as a breath replacement. That is as simple as it gets.

What good is it then if it can't replace breath of life as a short ranged area alternative?

The point of the skill is to be a burst heal for at least 4 people. If you use it like that, it is great. If you use it like breath, were you only need to burst 1 or 2 people, you are going to have a bad time.

But it's not great.

Why take up a valuable skill slot that only works semi-efficiently when 4 people around you simultaneously need healing at close range? And even then it's questionable considering the spells costs nearly as much as two Breath of Lifes, which would have the same effect anyway even if all four group members were in dire need of healing.

For it to be useful it needs to be able to function as a standard burst heal for your party at close range. Otherwise I don't see the point in it.

Jeremy

soniku4ikblis wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

soniku4ikblis wrote: »

At 2500 sustain on a Magplar Healer, RoR is easy to maintain in PVP along with Healing Springs for a ball group and PvDoor.

If I spec for 3000+ sustain, the skill becomes a non-issue. I play as a High Elf currently, but when I was a Breton after the recent racial passives change, Breton really made the skill a non-issue.

I have been able to keep my groups alive with 20-30 Army of Purple battles and win.

RoR + HS and Extended Ritual are really quite awesome too if you have to stand your ground at inner keep on a choke point or on the roof.

If you spec yourself to maintain the spell, it's really amazing. I only use it when I either Heal Tank or run LA in a group as a main healer.

I'm talking about PvE. If you say it's good in PvP I'm willing to take your word for it. But for PvE it needs some work. It's limited range combined with it's high costs makes it a poor substitute for breath of life even if I reserve my healing for those who stay near me.

And I don't even want to imagine playing a healer in PvP who is built to have over 3,000 magicka regen. I hope for your sake you have an army protecting you because one stun/ burst from a good damage dealer that's all she wrote with so much of your character's potential stats going toward regen.

Mitigating stuns in a ball-group is pretty easy.

Mitigating stuns in non-ball group with heavy armor is even easier. Getting stunned is a non-issue because you can break out of it and hit your heals and tank for x seconds if needed.

I use RoR in PVE all the time and have no trouble keeping people alive with that spell and Healing Springs.

I've been able to keep a 6-10 people alive, in 20FPS 250L in Cyrodiil on a hill, being zerged by 3 directions, spamming my rotations. That battle lasted well over 10 minutes. I was using Efficient Purge also, at 4800ish a pop.

It takes 1 set to reach the level or regen I need to perform. It's not difficult.

Maybe if you provided specific examples of situations where the skill isn't working due to the cost and it's function.

I'm not convinced of your argument.

Even in Bright Throat's and Atronoch I'm not at 3k magicka regen. So I'm not sure what this single set you are using that puts you at 3k magicka regen is but I'd be curious to hear about it.

An example would be anytime your party is taking consistent bursts of damage that your HoTs are not powerful enough to counter. Breath of life just performs better than Ritual does in situations like that - which begs the question what is the point of the spell? To drain your magicka faster? Because that really does seem to be the only thing it does.