Pugblades

Houshiki

Ok, I'm not really being serious, I just want to rant a bit. Anyways, what's going on? NBs are supposed to be good right? But practically all the pugblades I've come across in the past 2 or so weeks were... not good.

Hear me out, these were in vet dlc dungeons, and I notice I'm doing 60-70% of the dps, sometimes 80%, then I look around and I see said pugblade usually just snipe spamming. Well, either that or dying... repeatedly. And no there were low, sub-300 cp either, they usually ranged from mid 400 to cap.

Seriously not serious, what happened?

Rethil

PvP players doing pledges. I play both PvE and PvP. Same story with random BG, PvE players just dying in two shots, doing no dmg at all and forget about them trying to do objectives - no chance.

LeagueTroll

Rethil wrote: »

PvP players doing pledges. I play both PvE and PvP. Same story with random BG, PvE players just dying in two shots, doing no dmg at all and forget about them trying to do objectives - no chance.

Pvp is not excuse. A person who is 2h plus 1h shield in heavy armor is terrible in pvp too.

Kurat

Rethil wrote: »

PvP players doing pledges. I play both PvE and PvP. Same story with random BG, PvE players just dying in two shots, doing no dmg at all and forget about them trying to do objectives - no chance.

This.
Also, just being a NB doesn't make you good player. Any class can do good dps, some a bit better than others, but you have know how to play lol.

Houshiki

Rethil wrote: »

PvP players doing pledges. I play both PvE and PvP. Same story with random BG, PvE players just dying in two shots, doing no dmg at all and forget about them trying to do objectives - no chance.

Immediately my first thought on seeing the snipe spam.

Kurat wrote: »

Rethil wrote: »

PvP players doing pledges. I play both PvE and PvP. Same story with random BG, PvE players just dying in two shots, doing no dmg at all and forget about them trying to do objectives - no chance.

This.
Also, just being a NB doesn't make you good player. Any class can do good dps, some a bit better than others, but you have know how to play lol.

Yes I realize that, this was just me ranting a bit. That and that NBs currently hold the top spot on the dps ladder. I don't suppose its unreasonable to expect said players to at least be decent and carry their own weight it they're coming into a vet dlc dungeon. I'm not saying its all NBs, but seeing a fair few of them doing nothing but snipe spam... well, got me to want to rant a bit.

MartiniDaniels

80% lol. Only way to see that is if second dps is doing nothing, because healer provides 10k dps and tank 5k dps at average. Snipe spamming will give at least 15k. So to reach 80% you need to do 120k dps.

Kolzki

This sounds like a random vet problem. If you click the random vet button you have to be prepared for either vFG1 or vet scale caller with a group that wants to do hard mode. It takes a few solo queue random dlc vets to learn that sometimes it's best not to push the random vet button and lfg with friends/guilds/zone instead.

Houshiki

Ok, no I'm not insulting nightblades, bow/bow builds, or snipe. I don't really care what class or build someone uses as long as they can pull their own weight. Really, I'm just ranting about it, its not like I'm even complaining or frustrated about carrying pugblades through dlc dungeons, I usually just want the complete.

On a more serious note, I'm wondering if I should keep carrying pugblades like this. I mean, I don't really want to end up looking like an over-compensating bodybuilder that eats nothing steroids.

Facefister

No matter what class, the majority of random DDs are useless.

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karekiz

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

80% lol. Only way to see that is if second dps is doing nothing, because healer provides 10k dps and tank 5k dps at average. Snipe spamming will give at least 15k. So to reach 80% you need to do 120k dps.

While I don't know if OP is correct

Thats assuming quite a bit. Plenty of Pug healers I had stuck with restro only bar. Tanks that generally don't get past 1-2K dps. Its not that super uncommon

Goregrinder

If you weren't being really serious, you wouldn't have wasted your time making a post. If you are such a god among men, why even group? If you know you're going to get put with low dps players, why not just solo run all your vet dungeons? Sounds like the safer bet imo, and should be easy for a god like you. That way, you'll be guaranteed to be doing 100% of the DPS.

p00tx

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

80% lol. Only way to see that is if second dps is doing nothing, because healer provides 10k dps and tank 5k dps at average. Snipe spamming will give at least 15k. So to reach 80% you need to do 120k dps.

If they're dead, they're doing 0 dps, so I'm sure that factors into it.

Iskiab

I’ve found the biggest part of doing good damage is paying attention. A lot of players get away with being carried and sending tells to their friends instead of contributing.

It’s a byproduct of not having a dps meter showing what people are doing. CPs don’t matter too much when the issue is the player.

Alucardo

You probably moan at your wife for only contributing to 5% of your carnal intimacies in bed

Goregrinder

Alucardo wrote: »

You probably moan at your wife for only contributing to 5% of your carnal intimacies in bed

I mean...you're not lying.

FierceSam

karekiz wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

80% lol. Only way to see that is if second dps is doing nothing, because healer provides 10k dps and tank 5k dps at average. Snipe spamming will give at least 15k. So to reach 80% you need to do 120k dps.

While I don't know if OP is correct

Thats assuming quite a bit. Plenty of Pug healers I had stuck with restro only bar. Tanks that generally don't get past 1-2K dps. Its not that super uncommon

A tank that pulls 4 figure damage? That’s just not proper tanking.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

FierceSam wrote: »

karekiz wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

80% lol. Only way to see that is if second dps is doing nothing, because healer provides 10k dps and tank 5k dps at average. Snipe spamming will give at least 15k. So to reach 80% you need to do 120k dps.

While I don't know if OP is correct

Thats assuming quite a bit. Plenty of Pug healers I had stuck with restro only bar. Tanks that generally don't get past 1-2K dps. Its not that super uncommon

A tank that pulls 4 figure damage? That’s just not proper tanking.

What? I get 3-6k just from wall, heroic slash and pierce armor.

msalvia

That's the die-roll of pugging vets. I don't have the strength for that anymore...it's not unique to blades, you have about a 10% chance to pull a competent group while pugging.

Think about how great it would be if, before getting into vets, people had to pass some kind of certification/training, just like for crafts? I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some basic level of competency, and CP sure don't guarantee that. Like, maybe be able to hit 15k on a basic dummy? Seems like a low bar that sadly isn't cleared that often in pugs...especially if ZOS is going to keep putting DPS checks in vet dungeons.

Or for tanks, show that you can survive some heavy attacks/aoes? Or for healers, show that you can heal through some kind of boss mechanic? Maybe hard to implement, but that would dramatically 1) improve completion rates for vet pugs, and 2) introduce casual/inexperienced players to some of the basic combat techniques, like rotation and weaving, before they have bad experiences doing 6k in vet DLCs and get the boot.

p00tx

msalvia wrote: »

That's the die-roll of pugging vets. I don't have the strength for that anymore...it's not unique to blades, you have about a 10% chance to pull a competent group while pugging.

Think about how great it would be if, before getting into vets, people had to pass some kind of certification/training, just like for crafts? I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some basic level of competency, and CP sure don't guarantee that. Like, maybe be able to hit 15k on a basic dummy? Seems like a low bar that sadly isn't cleared that often in pugs...especially if ZOS is going to keep putting DPS checks in vet dungeons.

Or for tanks, show that you can survive some heavy attacks/aoes? Or for healers, show that you can heal through some kind of boss mechanic? Maybe hard to implement, but that would dramatically 1) improve completion rates for vet pugs, and 2) introduce casual/inexperienced players to some of the basic combat techniques, like rotation and weaving, before they have bad experiences doing 6k in vet DLCs and get the boot.

I would actually be completely behind something like this, but this would actually eliminate any sort of intentional carry, whether for gold or just to be nice.

What I would be 100% behind is a tutorial that teaches light attack cancelling/weaving and how to build a rotation. Maybe design it so you pop into a solo instance with you and a test dummy as soon as you hit lvl 50, and then go straight into the guided tutorial. Allow players who have already completed it once to opt out on new toons. It would immensely benefit newer players who don't even know this is a thing, and would start them thinking more on the right track.

zaria

msalvia wrote: »

That's the die-roll of pugging vets. I don't have the strength for that anymore...it's not unique to blades, you have about a 10% chance to pull a competent group while pugging.

Think about how great it would be if, before getting into vets, people had to pass some kind of certification/training, just like for crafts? I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some basic level of competency, and CP sure don't guarantee that. Like, maybe be able to hit 15k on a basic dummy? Seems like a low bar that sadly isn't cleared that often in pugs...especially if ZOS is going to keep putting DPS checks in vet dungeons.

Or for tanks, show that you can survive some heavy attacks/aoes? Or for healers, show that you can heal through some kind of boss mechanic? Maybe hard to implement, but that would dramatically 1) improve completion rates for vet pugs, and 2) introduce casual/inexperienced players to some of the basic combat techniques, like rotation and weaving, before they have bad experiences doing 6k in vet DLCs and get the boot.

My old undaunted academy idea. think dragon star arena with 3 npc and you. Shorter and shorter rounds however, some trash pulls, some bosses with common mechanics, stay out of stupid, boss with more and more adds, one npc get trapped and has to be freed. Perhaps one npc dies at some time and need to be resurrected.
Expect this to be pretty scripted but all dungeons is.

it would also be useful for testing out tank and healer setups.

dazee

msalvia wrote: »

Think about how great it would be if, before getting into vets, people had to pass some kind of certification/training, just like for crafts? I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some basic level of competency, and CP sure don't guarantee that. Like, maybe be able to hit 15k on a basic dummy? Seems like a low bar that sadly isn't cleared that often in pugs...especially if ZOS is going to keep putting DPS checks in vet dungeons.

Or for tanks, show that you can survive some heavy attacks/aoes? Or for healers, show that you can heal through some kind of boss mechanic? Maybe hard to implement, but that would dramatically 1) improve completion rates for vet pugs, and 2) introduce casual/inexperienced players to some of the basic combat techniques, like rotation and weaving, before they have bad experiences doing 6k in vet DLCs and get the boot.

FFXIV has similar but it only works well BECUASE ITS OPTIONAL. however it rewards stuff very good for new players leveling up so its always extremely useful for them to run it even if they know already what to do. Hall of the Novice introduces players to the basic role functions and mechanics.

Gilvoth

this thread is insulting archers, it is baiting and should be locked.

msalvia

I would actually be completely behind something like this, but this would actually eliminate any sort of intentional carry, whether for gold or just to be nice.

I don't follow...has anyone ever not been able to craft because they couldn't do the intro quests for crafting? Of course not! So having a short quest this is easy to complete, but that teaches them some of the basic combat functions like stacking aoes/dots, or weaving, or a basic rotation, would do nothing but good, imo. And it wouldn't be prohibitively difficult, so if you need a carry, take 10 minutes and do this easy quest so you're marginally less bad.

msalvia

"My old undaunted academy idea. think dragon star arena with 3 npc and you. Shorter and shorter rounds however, some trash pulls, some bosses with common mechanics, stay out of stupid, boss with more and more adds, one npc get trapped and has to be freed. Perhaps one npc dies at some time and need to be resurrected.
Expect this to be pretty scripted but all dungeons is.

it would also be useful for testing out tank and healer setups."

Yeah exactly, something like this. Seems like a no-brainer.

p00tx

msalvia wrote: »

I would actually be completely behind something like this, but this would actually eliminate any sort of intentional carry, whether for gold or just to be nice.

I don't follow...has anyone ever not been able to craft because they couldn't do the intro quests for crafting? Of course not! So having a short quest this is easy to complete, but that teaches them some of the basic combat functions like stacking aoes/dots, or weaving, or a basic rotation, would do nothing but good, imo. And it wouldn't be prohibitively difficult, so if you need a carry, take 10 minutes and do this easy quest so you're marginally less bad.

Did you read everything I wrote...?

Artemiisia

I actually had fun doing pledges today, did one of them pugged through group finder, there was this pvp player bunny jumping all the time, was smiling from ear to ear, while we did the dungeon

Rittings

Its not just blades, its templars too. They spam dark flare on repeat... its funny to watch.

redlink1979

Houshiki wrote: »

in vet dlc dungeons, and I notice I'm doing 60-70% of the dps, sometimes 80%, then I look around and I see said pugblade usually just snipe spamming. Well, either that or dying... repeatedly

Enlightened PvP players who think changing cp alocation, gear and skills doesn't make a difference from PvP to PvE... Just kick them out of the group after the 1st signs of pvpism.

PS - Amount of cp means nothing since there are lot who just farm the skill points without properly knowing the generality of the game's mechanics.

Juhasow

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

80% lol. Only way to see that is if second dps is doing nothing, because healer provides 10k dps and tank 5k dps at average. Snipe spamming will give at least 15k. So to reach 80% you need to do 120k dps.

Assuming everyone is alive , tank is doing something else except using ransack every 15 seconds and healer is doing something else except spamming healing springs. I was actually very often part of a random dungeons where I was doing up to 90% of group DPS even when I was queued as fake tank so there was 2 other DDs and healer and for the record I had taunt slotted so they couldnt die from lack of aggro. There was even random runs where I was real tank or healer and I was doing more then half of group DPS so yeah runs like that happens frequently in group finder. Many people jumps horribly unprepared to group content without having any background knowledge.

Vapirko

I doubt it's PvPers running pledges. Most PvPers I know understand that they dont have the setups for harder PvE content and are okay with *** normal dungeons. Or they're also quite competent in PvE. PvE rotations are mind numbingly easy compared to the dynamic rotations and reaction required for PvP and to be good at PvP you have to understand your class pretty well. So its way more likely that its just people who have no idea what theyre doing in general.