A few “gearing for tank” questions

GallantGuardian

When gearing for tanking I always keep in mind that your “big stat”pieces are

Helm chest legs and shields

I generally save my monster helm and shoulders to get the undaunted passive for 5-1-1

And before everyone used to suggest using medium helm since the helm increases stats (mind you this is what I’ve been told) so I’ve always gon medium head and light shoulders

Lately I notice most builds online are going light helm medium shoulders just curious as to why If there is a particular reason or not

Second question

Is the Ebon armor sword and shield still dropping the set bonus when you switch load outs and not giving my allies 1000 extra health ?

Nestor

I really think the whole head and shoulders thing has more to do with what you have. It's easy to find 5 Heavies in a set like Ebon or Alkosh for the rest of your body.

I solve the whole bar swap thing by having Ebon on my body.

GallantGuardian

Nestor wrote: »

I really think the whole head and shoulders thing has more to do with what you have. It's easy to find 5 Heavies in a set like Ebon or Alkosh for the rest of your body.

I solve the whole bar swap thing by having Ebon on my body.

So the Ebon thing is still messing up? The reason I ask is I have two swords and shields and the neck and rings

And getting body pieces of any set s much easier than getting weapons it seems ... so I’d like to have my permanent Ebon set be tings neck sword and shield

And leaving the rest open to make it easier to get what new stuff I wanna try on

Vermethys

I'd recommend having your Ebon 5 pieces on your body, in case you want to use Alkosh with it (which is a medium armour set) and Ebon is generally the most static tank set. I keep Ebon on my body slots, and for my jewelry+weapons I switch between other sets like Alkosh, Torug's Pact, Battalion Defender, and Dragon.

Tasear

Nestor wrote: »

I really think the whole head and shoulders thing has more to do with what you have. It's easy to find 5 Heavies in a set like Ebon or Alkosh for the rest of your body.

I solve the whole bar swap thing by having Ebon on my body.

Was the bar swap issue with ebon fixed?

GallantGuardian

Tasear wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

I really think the whole head and shoulders thing has more to do with what you have. It's easy to find 5 Heavies in a set like Ebon or Alkosh for the rest of your body.

I solve the whole bar swap thing by having Ebon on my body.

Was the bar swap issue with ebon fixed?

Lol this is what I’m trying to figure out

GallantGuardian

vermillion2077 wrote: »

I'd recommend having your Ebon 5 pieces on your body, in case you want to use Alkosh with it (which is a medium armour set) and Ebon is generally the most static tank set. I keep Ebon on my body slots, and for my jewelry+weapons I switch between other sets like Alkosh, Torug's Pact, Battalion Defender, and Dragon.

I use the white gold tower tank set with Ebon cause my group like me using it the shield procs a lot and they love it

MartiniDaniels

All the shoulder-helm thing is just a misinformation caused by difference in enchantment strength. In practice armor of helm and shoulder are exactly the same (if they have same weight), so any combination would do.

Ebon weapon swap I checked last time in Murkmire it was glitching like hell.

GallantGuardian

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

All the shoulder-helm thing is just a misinformation caused by difference in enchantment strength. In practice armor of helm and shoulder are exactly the same (if they have same weight), so any combination would do.

Ebon weapon swap I checked last time in Murkmire it was glitching like hell.

Thanks for the info on the helm and shoulders.. appreciate it..

And damn about the ebon swap but thanks as well

Qyrk

I think it’s still true that it’s best to have medium helm/light shoulder than the other way around since you get a better armor resistance that way (min maxing resistances when keeping 5-1-1). Anyone care to elaborate on this? I’ve only heard this a few years ago.

MartiniDaniels

Qyrk wrote: »

I think it’s still true that it’s best to have medium helm/light shoulder than the other way around since you get a better armor resistance that way (min maxing resistances when keeping 5-1-1). Anyone care to elaborate on this? I’ve only heard this a few years ago.

Armor of helm and shoulder are the same if they are of equal weight, quality and trait. You may check it any time in any crafting station.

Onefrkncrzypope

The ebon barswap + lifesteal vines = op warden sustain btw

Draxys

Technically, the min maxed version of a build would have a medium head, light shoulder. But at max level gold quality, the armor difference is 700 so it’s not that big of a deal

MartiniDaniels

Draxys wrote: »

Technically, the min maxed version of a build would have a medium head, light shoulder. But at max level gold quality, the armor difference is 700 so it’s not that big of a deal

Technically, it is not. I met hundreds of people searching for heavy helms for dps and medium helms for tanks, but in practice there is ZERO difference if you will use light helm and medium shoulder or vice versa. Just check equal pieces. The only big armor piece is chest. Shoulders, helm, legs and feet are equal. Bracers give small armor, and belt even smaller.

Draxys

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Technically, the min maxed version of a build would have a medium head, light shoulder. But at max level gold quality, the armor difference is 700 so it’s not that big of a deal

Technically, it is not. I met hundreds of people searching for heavy helms for dps and medium helms for tanks, but in practice there is ZERO difference if you will use light helm and medium shoulder or vice versa. Just check equal pieces. The only big armor piece is chest. Shoulders, helm, legs and feet are equal. Bracers give small armor, and belt even smaller.

UESP build editor is apparently out of date then. A build made on there yesterday has medium with more armor

Oreyn_Bearclaw

GallantGuardian wrote: »

When gearing for tanking I always keep in mind that your “big stat”pieces are

Helm chest legs and shields

I generally save my monster helm and shoulders to get the undaunted passive for 5-1-1

And before everyone used to suggest using medium helm since the helm increases stats (mind you this is what I’ve been told) so I’ve always gon medium head and light shoulders

Lately I notice most builds online are going light helm medium shoulders just curious as to why If there is a particular reason or not

Second question

Is the Ebon armor sword and shield still dropping the set bonus when you switch load outs and not giving my allies 1000 extra health ?

Question 1: Doesnt matter which is which. Chest>Legs>Head=shoulders=boots=Gloves>belt in terms of armor resistance (if memory serves). Make sure your chest and legs are heavy. In a perfect world, your belt would be light, but you are really starting to split hairs. My guess is that with monster sets, what you are seeing is people using the weights that they have.

Question 2: As long as you have the 5 piece on both bars, it really doesnt matter. So you either need 2 Sword and boards, or neither. As ebon is a moderate pain to get, most people just run it on jewelry and or body pieces.

MartiniDaniels

Draxys wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Technically, the min maxed version of a build would have a medium head, light shoulder. But at max level gold quality, the armor difference is 700 so it’s not that big of a deal

Technically, it is not. I met hundreds of people searching for heavy helms for dps and medium helms for tanks, but in practice there is ZERO difference if you will use light helm and medium shoulder or vice versa. Just check equal pieces. The only big armor piece is chest. Shoulders, helm, legs and feet are equal. Bracers give small armor, and belt even smaller.

UESP build editor is apparently out of date then. A build made on there yesterday has medium with more armor

Or maybe in-game info is wrong and in practice different is in place. I checked just now with interchanging pieces and result was the same in character selection screen. Maybe somebody else need to check too to confirm.

El_Borracho

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Technically, the min maxed version of a build would have a medium head, light shoulder. But at max level gold quality, the armor difference is 700 so it’s not that big of a deal

Technically, it is not. I met hundreds of people searching for heavy helms for dps and medium helms for tanks, but in practice there is ZERO difference if you will use light helm and medium shoulder or vice versa. Just check equal pieces. The only big armor piece is chest. Shoulders, helm, legs and feet are equal. Bracers give small armor, and belt even smaller.

I don't think anyone is using heavy helmets for DPS. Straight 7-mediums is preferred since Summerset.

As for the Ebon/Alkosh setup, I went with the 4 Ebon body + Necklace and the Alkosh belt, 2 rings, S&B and Frost Staff (yes, its the Woeler build). Except I go 2 of the same monster pieces, be it Chokethorn, Bloodspawn, Lord Warden, Mighty Chudan, etc.

Haven't tried the Ebon S&B since going with this

MartiniDaniels

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

GallantGuardian wrote: »

When gearing for tanking I always keep in mind that your “big stat”pieces are

Helm chest legs and shields

I generally save my monster helm and shoulders to get the undaunted passive for 5-1-1

And before everyone used to suggest using medium helm since the helm increases stats (mind you this is what I’ve been told) so I’ve always gon medium head and light shoulders

Lately I notice most builds online are going light helm medium shoulders just curious as to why If there is a particular reason or not

Second question

Is the Ebon armor sword and shield still dropping the set bonus when you switch load outs and not giving my allies 1000 extra health ?

Question 1: Doesnt matter which is which. Chest>Legs>Head=shoulders=boots=Gloves>belt in terms of armor resistance (if memory serves). Make sure your chest and legs are heavy. In a perfect world, your belt would be light, but you are really starting to split hairs. My guess is that with monster sets, what you are seeing is people using the weights that they have.

Question 2: As long as you have the 5 piece on both bars, it really doesnt matter. So you either need 2 Sword and boards, or neither. As ebon is a moderate pain to get, most people just run it on jewelry and or body pieces.

Well, i tested with friend and his health jerked -1k on ebon s&b/ice staff bar swap in murkmire patch. While on tank himself nothing was changing and jerking.
This is actual a big issue because alkosh weapons, especially ice/lightning staff and shield are quite hard to get, and well, EVERYBODY in trial needs them, so you are mostly on your own to get it and if you get one your chat explodes with whispers immediately. People are offering 100k+ gold per piece.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Draxys wrote: »

Technically, the min maxed version of a build would have a medium head, light shoulder. But at max level gold quality, the armor difference is 700 so it’s not that big of a deal

I am pretty sure that is not true. Unless things have changed, shoulders and helms have the same armor rating if the weights and traits are the same. It's counter intuitive because a helm is a "big piece" in terms of enchant value, but in terms of armor rating, its the same as a shoulder. In other words, it doesn't matter which is which.

Ratzkifal

What counts as a "big piece" changes with context. Helm, chest, legs and shield are "big" for enchantments and armor value, but shoulders are "big" for armor value and small for enchantments. Boots, belts and gloves are small for armor and enchantments.

Most efficient build would be helm, chest, legs, shoulders and boots heavy, gloves medium, belt light for 1/1/5.
Unfortunately with RNG and monster sets you often can't choose the weight of your shoulder piece/hat.

MartiniDaniels

El_Borracho wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Technically, the min maxed version of a build would have a medium head, light shoulder. But at max level gold quality, the armor difference is 700 so it’s not that big of a deal

Technically, it is not. I met hundreds of people searching for heavy helms for dps and medium helms for tanks, but in practice there is ZERO difference if you will use light helm and medium shoulder or vice versa. Just check equal pieces. The only big armor piece is chest. Shoulders, helm, legs and feet are equal. Bracers give small armor, and belt even smaller.

I don't think anyone is using heavy helmets for DPS. Straight 7-mediums is preferred since Summerset.

As for the Ebon/Alkosh setup, I went with the 4 Ebon body + Necklace and the Alkosh belt, 2 rings, S&B and Frost Staff (yes, its the Woeler build). Except I go 2 of the same monster pieces, be it Chokethorn, Bloodspawn, Lord Warden, Mighty Chudan, etc.

Haven't tried the Ebon S&B since going with this

Magdps and healers use heavy helmets/medium shoulders if they are in non-crafted sets.

El_Borracho

Ratzkifal wrote: »

What counts as a "big piece" changes with context. Helm, chest, legs and shield are "big" for enchantments and armor value, but shoulders are "big" for armor value and small for enchantments. Boots, belts and gloves are small for armor and enchantments.

Most efficient build would be helm, chest, legs, shoulders and boots heavy, gloves medium, belt light for 1/1/5.
Unfortunately with RNG and monster sets you often can't choose the weight of your shoulder piece/hat.

Except most tank sets are heavy, with the obvious exception of Alkosh. Other than Torug's, I can't think of a tank set that comes in light in order to have a light belt, which would limit your group tanking abilities

Evil_Rurouni

Just tested the monster set resistance values in-game (PS4) to make sure of what the others have told you already:

Completely Naked apart from a set of Blood spawn, no reinforced or nirn used, no buffs active:

No monster set gives 3612 spell resistance, zero physical resistance.
medium helmet, light shoulder gives 6914 spell resistance, 2939 physical resistance.
Light helmet, medium shoulder gives 6914 spell resistance, 2939 physical resistance.

No difference between the two options.

The 3612 spell resistance are from DK passives and CP bonuses BTW, it shouldn't affect the monster set resistances at all.
Still got the old Nord passives over here. :P


Sidenote: It might be worth making Torugs in light belt and medium gloves and carrying heavy shoulders and helm from your monster set on your tank for when you're asked to run torugs with an infused destro as a support set (crusher enchant).
It won't be a big increase in resistances though.

D0PAMINE

I run 2 heavy Chuden, Plague jewelry and body, Torugs light sash and medium gloves, rest heavy. I think im at roughly 32k spell, 29k phys resist. Im actually doing all infused with tri glyphs though.

Itzmichi

I'm only using 1 medium piece the rest is all heavy. Trait is all sturdy as well. I prefer lord warden as monster set.