Are Argonians still good for mNB?

SpiderCultist

Question after racial changes. The thing is over the years He's grown some kind of emotional attachment on me, being my main magicka Nighblade, the one I generally use for general purpose, wearing HA or healing support. I don't play him much anymore because of their current state but still...

By the way, I got 4 nightblades: breton (mNB), dunmer (mNB now also sNB on demand), bosmer (sNB) and argonian (mNB) but I'm being tempted to make him an altmer

Would you race change it?

Kelces

I would keep it for now, if you play healer and got accustomed to the potion passives with that one. It's always a bit weird when I use a potion on a healer, that is not Argonian.

If any at all, I would only change one of the other. Perhaps the Breton to Altmer... Couldn't think of any more fun NB healer.

SpiderCultist

Kelces wrote: »

I would keep it for now, if you play healer and got accustomed to the potion passives with that one. It's always a bit weird when I use a potion on a healer, that is not Argonian.

If any at all, I would only change one of the other. Perhaps the Breton to Altmer... Couldn't think of any more fun NB healer.

The "shadowscales" were BiS for mNB on PVP but if they are now left behind just to play as pseudo-healers I don't know mate... The tripot passive will be missed, that's for sure.

Tommy_The_Gun

No, dont race change. Especially if it is your main. If you do so you will feel bad about this and there will be no return at that point. You have other characters if you wish to min - max (your breton for example).

Btw. I also started this game as an Argoninan NB. Used to be hybrid sap-tank. Good old times ...
So I fully understand you. You might even say that we are in the same boat here.

Again, I would strongly advaise not to race change. Especially if you have some kind of emotional atachment to this character. Take it slow, take your time and be patient. Perhaps better times are yet to come.

Kelces

SpiderCultist wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

I would keep it for now, if you play healer and got accustomed to the potion passives with that one. It's always a bit weird when I use a potion on a healer, that is not Argonian.

If any at all, I would only change one of the other. Perhaps the Breton to Altmer... Couldn't think of any more fun NB healer.

The "shadowscales" were BiS for mNB on PVP but if they are now left behind just to play as pseudo-healers I don't know mate... The tripot passive will be missed, that's for sure.

You could test it with your other mNB and see the difference, if you like it without making any change yet. If they would lose the passive with potions at one point, I guess I might change mine aswell...

SpiderCultist

Kelces wrote: »

SpiderCultist wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

I would keep it for now, if you play healer and got accustomed to the potion passives with that one. It's always a bit weird when I use a potion on a healer, that is not Argonian.

If any at all, I would only change one of the other. Perhaps the Breton to Altmer... Couldn't think of any more fun NB healer.

The "shadowscales" were BiS for mNB on PVP but if they are now left behind just to play as pseudo-healers I don't know mate... The tripot passive will be missed, that's for sure.

You could test it with your other mNB and see the difference, if you like it without making any change yet. If they would lose the passive with potions at one point, I guess I might change mine aswell...

they are lackluster in these terms:

1) dmg is non-existent
2) their healing received passive was very noticeable prior removal
3) tripot passive nerf is noticeable as well

the only good thing about them now is the (nerfed) tripot

Iskiab

I'd keep it argonian. Attachment to your character is more important than any small difference in stats, if you like Argonians stick with it.

Kelces

SpiderCultist wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

SpiderCultist wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

I would keep it for now, if you play healer and got accustomed to the potion passives with that one. It's always a bit weird when I use a potion on a healer, that is not Argonian.

If any at all, I would only change one of the other. Perhaps the Breton to Altmer... Couldn't think of any more fun NB healer.

The "shadowscales" were BiS for mNB on PVP but if they are now left behind just to play as pseudo-healers I don't know mate... The tripot passive will be missed, that's for sure.

You could test it with your other mNB and see the difference, if you like it without making any change yet. If they would lose the passive with potions at one point, I guess I might change mine aswell...

they are lackluster in these terms:

1) dmg is non-existent
2) their healing received passive was very noticeable prior removal
3) tripot passive nerf is noticeable as well

the only good thing about them now is the (nerfed) tripot

On paper perhaps, maybe 5-7 light armor might be a start...

brandonv516

I would say don't race change.

Argonian is great still for PvP. The potion passive wasn't nerfed into uselessness. For PvE I'm sure it's a terrible choice.

Light armor is a must. If you use heavy armor, you aren't going to kill top tier players. Even going Spinners to make up for that loss in penetration is not enough - Spinners in light armor however is money.

Caluurions will balance out the playing field too. And you should not feel ashamed using it because of the snare, bleeds, spin-to-win meta that is equally as cancerous.

If you are set on heavy armor, go dedicated healer. NBs are very good PvP healers right now but you can't play them like Templars (block + heal).

Good luck.

NightAngel690

Keep it。 argonian is the master race! I play heavy snb magblade and it’s fun。 my damage is only 2.5k but I can still burst people down in bgs. It started as just a fun way to bring my pve tank into bgs and now I love it

macsmooth

This is interesting as I want to race change my Nord nb to Argonian and my Argonian dk to Nord

I was curious about how Argonian nb are doing as was going to be tank/healer nb as it seemed to fit the Argonian more and looks fun

kaithuzar

IMO, race change all the way.
Firstly Argonian was only used because it was OP, not anymore, now it’s just meh unless you’re a nb healer.

Secondly magblade is in not so great a place right now pvp wise. So you need all the help you can get & sticking to a nerfed race isn’t doing you any favors.

Thirdly, you have 3 race change tokens. This means if you had 1 toon, you could race change back & forth on it.

SpiderCultist

kaithuzar wrote: »

IMO, race change all the way.
Firstly Argonian was only used because it was OP, not anymore, now it’s just meh unless you’re a nb healer.

Secondly magblade is in not so great a place right now pvp wise. So you need all the help you can get & sticking to a nerfed race isn’t doing you any favors.

Thirdly, you have 3 race change tokens. This means if you had 1 toon, you could race change back & forth on it.

exactly my thoughts, now the question arises what race should I change him to?

Undefwun

*shrug* I'm still sticking it to plenty ppl in BGs.... and provide some clutch off healing...

I might go for a name change, but not race change...

Datthaw

Tri pot sustain lost like what 1000 resources? I forget but still. My lizard wizard runs ranged builds because melee is a death sentence unless you're calu ganking. Definitely not throwing out heavy melee attacks. So that tripot is my stam sustain. You go breton or w/e yeah you may have better sustain, damage, etc but you will need to make up fo that lost stam sustain.

brandonv516

Datthaw wrote: »

Tri pot sustain lost like what 1000 resources? I forget but still. My lizard wizard runs ranged builds because melee is a death sentence unless you're calu ganking. Definitely not throwing out heavy melee attacks. So that tripot is my stam sustain. You go breton or w/e yeah you may have better sustain, damage, etc but you will need to make up fo that lost stam sustain.

~500 of each resource after final patch.

thankyourat

kaithuzar wrote: »

IMO, race change all the way.
Firstly Argonian was only used because it was OP, not anymore, now it’s just meh unless you’re a nb healer.

Secondly magblade is in not so great a place right now pvp wise. So you need all the help you can get & sticking to a nerfed race isn’t doing you any favors.

Thirdly, you have 3 race change tokens. This means if you had 1 toon, you could race change back & forth on it.

You are forgetting about the Stam sustain. Even after the nerfs argonians still have the best PvP sustain of all the races because it's to all 3 resource pools. You use a tripot and your health and stamina pools are full. It's basically a complete fight reset at the press of a button. It's still a very good race to use. The potion passive also synergizes well with heavy armor so it opens up build opportunities that other races can't.

thankyourat

SpiderCultist wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

IMO, race change all the way.
Firstly Argonian was only used because it was OP, not anymore, now it’s just meh unless you’re a nb healer.

Secondly magblade is in not so great a place right now pvp wise. So you need all the help you can get & sticking to a nerfed race isn’t doing you any favors.

Thirdly, you have 3 race change tokens. This means if you had 1 toon, you could race change back & forth on it.

exactly my thoughts, now the question arises what race should I change him to?

I'm guessing if you don't like argonian I would stay away from Breton because I actually think argonian still outclasses Breton. Extra health and stamina sustain is better than magicka cost reduction in my opinion from a PvP perspective. I'm guessing you would like to play a damage race.

You could make some very strong crit damage based builds using khajiits but they will be more build reliant then the other races. I would choose between dunmer and altmer. They are basically the same race. They both offer alot of pure burst damage it will come down to rather you want a bigger Stam pool or more Stam recovery when deciding between the two. Resistance to the burning effect is also really good. In my opinion I would go dunmer.

exeeter702

kaithuzar wrote: »

IMO, race change all the way.
Firstly Argonian was only used because it was OP, not anymore, now it’s just meh unless you’re a nb healer.

Secondly magblade is in not so great a place right now pvp wise. So you need all the help you can get & sticking to a nerfed race isn’t doing you any favors.

Thirdly, you have 3 race change tokens. This means if you had 1 toon, you could race change back & forth on it.

If we are talking pvp, sorry but argonian is still a very compelling and strong option. Stamina sustain for magicka builds, especially those who are particularly vulnerable to roots and snares, is absolutely vital. Healing racial passive nerfs have robbed argonian magblades from bolstering the once unique defensive mechanism magblades could lean on, but still better than breton for pvp imho.

kaithuzar

To everyone stating I’ve forgotten about stam sustain:
Amber plasm OR
Shacklebreaker OR
Willows path OR
Bright throat w/drink that has stam support

PLUS
Tri-star glyphs

AND
If that isn’t enough, don’t forget you can morph siphoning strikes to the stam version

AND
I wouldn’t discount something like kahjiit if you’re looking for more hybrid like builds.

The one thing Argonian still has going for it is that bleed builds are plentiful & OP so the extra healing (if any still exist) may help to combat that; oh & I guess some resistance to defile.(technically 2things)

thankyourat

kaithuzar wrote: »

To everyone stating I’ve forgotten about stam sustain:
Amber plasm OR
Shacklebreaker OR
Willows path OR
Bright throat w/drink that has stam support

PLUS
Tri-star glyphs

AND
If that isn’t enough, don’t forget you can morph siphoning strikes to the stam version

AND
I wouldn’t discount something like kahjiit if you’re looking for more hybrid like builds.

The one thing Argonian still has going for it is that bleed builds are plentiful & OP so the extra healing (if any still exist) may help to combat that; oh & I guess some resistance to defile.(technically 2things)

That's what makes argonian good though. it doesn't need tristat glyphs because it already has built in health and Stam sustain. It also doesn't need to wear any set that gives Stam sustain because of the potion passive. The thing argonian has going for it is that it's just a good all around race it offers a little bit of everything while also offering the best sustain of all the races.

It depends on what you want to build for. If if you want a sustain race argonian is still the best in that department. I don't think there is a bis race. Argonian, dark elf, and high elf are pretty much even in my opinion. Then Breton and khajiit are a little worse but still viable in niche builds.

kaithuzar

So I’m going to be honest about my slight, possibly sub-conscious, agenda.

I hate dk’s, I’ve hated them since launch when I chose being a nightblade over a dk & dk’s proceeded to stomp over everyone due to ridiculously broken skills/mechanics.
Impulse, bats, leap/standard, ground oil...Wings

I drop vamp, re-roll Breton, I’m killing mag dk’s now.
Of course now there are bigger threats such as the “two-button winning unkillable stamden”, the “bleed-plar”, & the “tanky dot-leaping stam dk”; all of which “could” be better fought using an Argonian.
But, I don’t care for playing a lizard & I’ll take my wins where I can get them, where my hatred has been the longest; mag dk.


***Note of caution, turning on RP voice(if I had one).
‘We’re free brethren, go forth & slay thy greatest of foes.’

(specifically I play melee magblade so I can’t speak for fighting against wings using destro)

Jeezye

kaithuzar wrote: »

So I’m going to be honest about my slight, possibly sub-conscious, agenda.

I hate dk’s, I’ve hated them since launch when I chose being a nightblade over a dk & dk’s proceeded to stomp over everyone due to ridiculously broken skills/mechanics.
Impulse, bats, leap/standard, ground oil...Wings

I drop vamp, re-roll Breton, I’m killing mag dk’s now.
Of course now there are bigger threats such as the “two-button winning unkillable stamden”, the “bleed-plar”, & the “tanky dot-leaping stam dk”; all of which “could” be better fought using an Argonian.
But, I don’t care for playing a lizard & I’ll take my wins where I can get them, where my hatred has been the longest; mag dk.


***Note of caution, turning on RP voice(if I had one).
‘We’re free brethren, go forth & slay thy greatest of foes.’

(specifically I play melee magblade so I can’t speak for fighting against wings using destro)

so how in the world do you kill a competent dk? either way the class toolkit gets almost completly negated by wings. the only way to pressure them is by fear - soul harvest - conceiled spam, but if you choose that playstyle you have no healing and will eventually get dotted down.

Or are you running zaan to complement your damage?

kaithuzar

@Jeezye
No zaan, just cloak to suppress dots, not be a vamp, have around 25-30k spell resistance, & a burst heal like blessing of restoration.

Joosef_Kivikilpi

SpiderCultist wrote: »

Question after racial changes. The thing is over the years He's grown some kind of emotional attachment on me, being my main magicka Nighblade, the one I generally use for general purpose, wearing HA or healing support. I don't play him much anymore because of their current state but still...

By the way, I got 4 nightblades: breton (mNB), dunmer (mNB now also sNB on demand), bosmer (sNB) and argonian (mNB) but I'm being tempted to make him an altmer

Would you race change it?

NO! Mageblade Argonians are best in slot wrecking kids in Cheydinhal... then making awesome get aways through the water passages while invisible! Can confirm said stories.

Jeezye

Actually I asked myself the same question for quite a while now, and I'm very close to race chaning my aronian to breton. The thing is, arognian passives really dont synergize too well with the class anymore. All self sustaining healing of magblade got gutted and healing received got erased from racials. Nightblades naturally scale best with regen because of passives and 258 magrec seems more than compelling to me. Then, even on my lizard I run 2300 regen and still run out of mag quite fast because costs became so high for nightblade skills.

So all in one, Breton provides free regen that synergizes with the kit, cost reduction that opens diversity for mundus/enchants/sets, resistances are not too bad and I rather take 2k max mag over 1k max mag and 1k max hp.

Now if I didn't have a khajit stamblade Id probably change to khajit because you can run it for both mag and stam and critdamage obviously synergizes perfectly with nightblades toolkit