Do not nerf siege, Pugs finally have a chance!

Prince_of_all_Pugs

Please do not nerf the siege, us PuGs finally have a chance to kill the ball groups. Normally pugs lack the gear, skill or organization to fight them otherwise, but with this siege they actually have a genuine chance , do not be cruel Zenimax, Give pugs a chance.

CyrusArya

The floor has been raised above the ceiling, to the point that we’re chillin on the roof.

Thogard

Make siege like proxy det.. useless against 1-4ish people but really strong on a stack of 16.

That way everyone wins

Juhasow

Thogard wrote: »

Make siege like proxy det.. useless against 1-4ish people but really strong on a stack of 16.

That way everyone wins

Well server performance would propably have lost due to additional calculations...

LeifErickson

Thogard wrote: »

Make siege like proxy det.. useless against 1-4ish people but really strong on a stack of 16.

That way everyone wins

This is a great idea.

zyk

Hardcore players have themselves to blame for this kind of idea because, in general, they've been relentlessly pug stomping in ESO since launch. When you play a NB, you see the extent to which opposition groups in proximity of each other avoid combat.

Fighting against BG premades in a pug has given most players perspective about how dumb this culture has been the entire time.

A Cyrodiil campaign is just a big public server. Instead of looking for randoms to farm, help the randoms on your team get some wins against better and more experienced players who they are normally farmed by. That's more honorable than "the code" IMO.

Lucky28

Thogard wrote: »

Make siege like proxy det.. useless against 1-4ish people but really strong on a stack of 16.

That way everyone wins

yeah i was saying this is zone yesterday. i don't mind siege getting buffed, but i don't want it getting buffed for zergs against small scale.

KappaKid83

zyk wrote: »

Hardcore players have themselves to blame for this kind of idea because, in general, they've been relentlessly pug stomping in ESO since launch. When you play a NB, you see the extent to which opposition groups in proximity of each other avoid combat.

Fighting against BG premades in a pug has given most players perspective about how dumb this culture has been the entire time.

A Cyrodiil campaign is just a big public server. Instead of looking for randoms to farm, help the randoms on your team get some wins against better and more experienced players who they are normally farmed by. That's more honorable than "the code" IMO.

This statement resonates with me. Not only is this a mantra we should use out in Cyro but kind of in life too. See someone down? Pick them up, don't bury them further ya know.

It is also a really honorable idea.

technohic

Thogard wrote: »

Make siege like proxy det.. useless against 1-4ish people but really strong on a stack of 16.

That way everyone wins

I would love that. I love when a certain zerg shows up and stands in siege. But it is annoying how many people are just standing on roofs and aiming for just 1 guy. And it will be helpful for the smaller group to defend if the huge groups counter siege was not as effective. Maybe if there is a large force, it would encourage them to spread out and push out which a lot dont do now.

Problem is, with everyone on siege, you wont get more than 4 in 1 hit and they'd have to be awfully tight. They'd have to start calculating a bigger area. Otherwise; this would only hit ball groups hard.

frostz417

Sorry all I could understand from this post is “i don’t wanna get good therefore I want to cry and demand to be catered to so that I can kill people without using my thumbs. Plz cater to noobs and punish good players for being good, I don’t know how to acquire skill”

frostz417

Thogard wrote: »

Make siege like proxy det.. useless against 1-4ish people but really strong on a stack of 16.

That way everyone wins

Honestly that’s a really good idea, I wouldn’t be opposed to that

Prince_of_all_Pugs

frostz417 wrote: »

Sorry all I could understand from this post is “i don’t wanna get good therefore I want to cry and demand to be catered to so that I can kill people without using my thumbs. Plz cater to noobs and punish good players for being good, I don’t know how to acquire skill”

you got it completely wrong this isn't about PuGs should be able to kill more experienced or stronger foes, its about that PuGS should have a Genuine chance at winning. Eso before this has been a giant PuG farm, the PuGs stood no chance and just logged on to get farmed for ap or 1VX footage from some teenage tri-hard. This hopeless either drives PuGs to either Quit or Join a mega Zerg guild which lags out the servers. Only a very small percentage of PuGs like myself ever get good enough to 1vX.

frostz417

Prince_of_all_Pugs wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Sorry all I could understand from this post is “i don’t wanna get good therefore I want to cry and demand to be catered to so that I can kill people without using my thumbs. Plz cater to noobs and punish good players for being good, I don’t know how to acquire skill”

you got it completely wrong this isn't about PuGs should be able to kill more experienced or stronger foes, its about that PuGS should have a Genuine chance at winning. Eso before this has been a giant PuG farm, the PuGs stood no chance and just logged on to get farmed for ap or 1VX footage from some teenage tri-hard. This hopeless either drives PuGs to either Quit or Join a mega Zerg guild which lags out the servers. Only a very small percentage of PuGs like myself ever get good enough to 1vX.

You want a chance at winning? Group up and use teamwork against the ball group.
Everyone has a chance to get good enough to 1vX. It just depends on who you decided to be with. If you chose to spend your PvP days in large PuG zerg guilds that just run 24 man’s and get demolished. You’ll stay within that gap. However if you chose to push yourself and build upon mistakes you make wether it’s build tweets, or skills etc you’ll progress through time

ThePedge

Nerf siege it's stupid op atm

Trout1996

Fully agree with Thogard. The siege is too damn strong, especially on players that don't have 20 other players with them.

VaranisArano

PUGs have a chance to kill the organized raids (without, you know, having to organize or work together better than a herd of cats). Organized raids continue to kill PUGs.

But everybody has a fantastic chance of dying on the breach or in a choke point.

zyk

Organized large raids have nothing to complain about. They're just so used to being extremely bold, reckless and in some cases lazy. They have the tools and the ability to coordinate around this. If you're organized, hit the keep from 2 sides at once. 99/100 when ESO players open a second breach, it's right beside the first one. Players in 2014 were much more intelligent.

I don't feel bad about anyone who chooses to fight around an objective and gets sieged. What we have had this week is basically how siege was at launch in relative terms.

The only unfortunate part about this to me is when siege gets dropped open field and disrupts an otherwise good fight that has nothing to do with an objective.

It's basic sportsmanship to go easy on less capable players after beating them a few times. The reason to practice good sportsmanship isn't to help your opponents, it's to help the game and everyone who plays it. It's toxic to the growth of the game for the most capable players to constantly seek out the least capable. The better we treat each other, the better we're all treated. In most games I'm aware of -- though I've mainly played ESO for 5 years -- it's considerted EXTREMELY lame to seek out randoms with a premade. This is also true in all sports.

With all that said, I hope siege is adjusted because this isn't really a long term solution. Still, it's been nice to seer the hideous disease/tank meta disrupted for a week. Next week, we'll be back to troll tank and hideous disease build everywhere.

@ZOS_Brianwheeler Do you know what players mean by the tank meta and stalemate builds? It's really bad gameplay and if everyone played that way, there would be no game because no one would die.

Rake

revert damage on sieges
then make them deal additional damage based on AvA rank, up to 50%

vamp_emily

Siege = ball group destruction.

nice.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Pugs: "ball groups are too strong"
Also pugs: "AP3"

Prince_of_all_Pugs

Even thoug I feel like the siege damage is okay, siege shield and heartland set need to be fixed, if siege stays this way then those sets / abilities WILL ACTUALLY BE USED.

Syhae

zyk wrote: »

Hardcore players have themselves to blame for this kind of idea because, in general, they've been relentlessly pug stomping in ESO since launch. When you play a NB, you see the extent to which opposition groups in proximity of each other avoid combat.

" IMO.

Nobody's fault that 90% of the games player base are "pugs" like you
say.

Prince_of_all_Pugs

Syhae wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Hardcore players have themselves to blame for this kind of idea because, in general, they've been relentlessly pug stomping in ESO since launch. When you play a NB, you see the extent to which opposition groups in proximity of each other avoid combat.

" IMO.

Nobody's fault that 90% of the games player base are "pugs" like you
say.

Such arrogance how disgusting!

Gipo

People are putting sieges instead of 1v1 you because they have much bigger chance that way. This is how stupidly strong are sieges now.

_Crow

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Pugs: "ball groups are too strong"
Also pugs: "AP3"

AP14 Thank you very much!

Vapirko

It certainly is funny watching pugs set up siege thinking they’re gonna get carried and then wiping them. In the fights I’ve been in, siege has benefited the skilled players far more than the average pug. That said a group of relatively skilled pugs can definitely accomplish much more against organized groups. I’m not a fan of ball groups unless they keep it to a reasonable size like around 8 maybe 12 if the population can support it. But those 20 man guild zergs just lol.

vesselwiththepestle

Prince_of_all_Pugs wrote: »

Even thoug I feel like the siege damage is okay, siege shield and heartland set need to be fixed, if siege stays this way then those sets / abilities WILL ACTUALLY BE USED.

Heartland is bugged? How?

Rikumaru

zyk wrote: »

Organized large raids have nothing to complain about. They're just so used to being extremely bold, reckless and in some cases lazy. They have the tools and the ability to coordinate around this. If you're organized, hit the keep from 2 sides at once. 99/100 when ESO players open a second breach, it's right beside the first one. Players in 2014 were much more intelligent.

I don't feel bad about anyone who chooses to fight around an objective and gets sieged. What we have had this week is basically how siege was at launch in relative terms.

The only unfortunate part about this to me is when siege gets dropped open field and disrupts an otherwise good fight that has nothing to do with an objective.

It's basic sportsmanship to go easy on less capable players after beating them a few times. The reason to practice good sportsmanship isn't to help your opponents, it's to help the game and everyone who plays it. It's toxic to the growth of the game for the most capable players to constantly seek out the least capable. The better we treat each other, the better we're all treated. In most games I'm aware of -- though I've mainly played ESO for 5 years -- it's considerted EXTREMELY lame to seek out randoms with a premade. This is also true in all sports.

With all that said, I hope siege is adjusted because this isn't really a long term solution. Still, it's been nice to seer the hideous disease/tank meta disrupted for a week. Next week, we'll be back to troll tank and hideous disease build everywhere.

@ZOS_Brianwheeler Do you know what players mean by the tank meta and stalemate builds? It's really bad gameplay and if everyone played that way, there would be no game because no one would die.

You don't fix a tank meta by introducing 1 shot siege. You fix it by adjusting abilities and sets and giving players a good reason to choose squishier builds. I'm sick of the tank meta too but I'm playing the game for PvP, not to click once with siege and destroy a group of people. Also as other people have pointed out, having OP siege just makes more people run tank. Why? Because they can deal high damages while building for tankiness. It's the exact same reason why oblivion damage and bleeds just made more people run heavy.

As for you disliking small scale / solo players smashing randoms, don't you think the problem has been exacerbated by the balance decisions since 1.6? It's been catered against solo players / small scalers, this just makes the solo players / small scale bitter about the more casual audience which demanded these nerfs in the first place. Not only that but said balance changes just makes those players get better and better at the game, cause if they want to remain solo they will need to adapt to every nerf they receive which just ends up honing their skills. It's pretty much a code to ignore other fellow small scalers as the playstyle is so much rarer nowadays and you just respect each other.

kpittsniperb14_ESO

zyk wrote: »

Organized large raids have nothing to complain about. They're just so used to being extremely bold, reckless and in some cases lazy. They have the tools and the ability to coordinate around this. If you're organized, hit the keep from 2 sides at once. 99/100 when ESO players open a second breach, it's right beside the first one. Players in 2014 were much more intelligent.

I don't feel bad about anyone who chooses to fight around an objective and gets sieged. What we have had this week is basically how siege was at launch in relative terms.

The only unfortunate part about this to me is when siege gets dropped open field and disrupts an otherwise good fight that has nothing to do with an objective.

It's basic sportsmanship to go easy on less capable players after beating them a few times. The reason to practice good sportsmanship isn't to help your opponents, it's to help the game and everyone who plays it. It's toxic to the growth of the game for the most capable players to constantly seek out the least capable. The better we treat each other, the better we're all treated. In most games I'm aware of -- though I've mainly played ESO for 5 years -- it's considerted EXTREMELY lame to seek out randoms with a premade. This is also true in all sports.

With all that said, I hope siege is adjusted because this isn't really a long term solution. Still, it's been nice to seer the hideous disease/tank meta disrupted for a week. Next week, we'll be back to troll tank and hideous disease build everywhere.

@ZOS_Brianwheeler Do you know what players mean by the tank meta and stalemate builds? It's really bad gameplay and if everyone played that way, there would be no game because no one would die.

Building more defensive is a response to damage increases and power creep in general.The more defensive builds become, the more the community calls for power increases to deal with them, the more defensive the builds become to respond to the power increases etc etc and on it goes. Having played in 2014 I have to refute that players were much more intelligent, quite the opposite. A well built group could stand and tank huge amounts of both players and siege, healing templars were much more potent, MagDK's were much more tankier etc. Rapid maneuver was much more potent, Barrier would shield an entire raid and coordinated groups could dominate an entire faction if not challenged by an equally coordinated/ sized group.


The issue is that there are fewer of these groups on the field to challenge one another, unlike at launch and the earlier days of the game. You have maybe 2-3 organized coordinated groups on a map at any given time (Vivec) and maybe 1-2 on Sotha on a given night.....talking large coordinated 16-24. What is interesting is that each nerf to organized play only exacerbates this issue. The skill ceiling to continue running these groups increases with each meta adjustment and organized groups that were on the margin either folds or stacks with the zerg because they can't adapt. The game needs those groups to improve and new guilds to form in order to maintain a healthy map.There is very little room for that to happen currently.



Overpowered siege is a solution looking for a problem.

Mintaka5

zyk wrote: »

Hardcore players have themselves to blame for this kind of idea because, in general, they've been relentlessly pug stomping in ESO since launch. When you play a NB, you see the extent to which opposition groups in proximity of each other avoid combat.

Fighting against BG premades in a pug has given most players perspective about how dumb this culture has been the entire time.

A Cyrodiil campaign is just a big public server. Instead of looking for randoms to farm, help the randoms on your team get some wins against better and more experienced players who they are normally farmed by. That's more honorable than "the code" IMO.

This!

Cyrodiil is just one big ***-wagging contest to which everyone aspires.

usmcjdking

Lmao.

Fix siege, straight back to laggy pre wrathstone madness. ZOS finally managed to fix lag incidentally and they remove it after one week.

Lmao.