Front bar/back bar

lukoi

Is there some reason in pve or pvp that it matters which weapon is your number 1 set up vice number 2? I'm assuming 1 is front bar and 2 is back bar btw, so correct me if I'm misunderstanding please.

WrathOfInnos

No real difference as far as the game is concerned.

As far as PVE builds, pretty much every Stamina build uses a Maelstrom bow and every Magicka build uses a Maelstrom Staff. These are typically used on the secondary/back bar where you spend less time. The primary/front bar typically has an additional 5-piece set (3 armor or jewelry, and 2 from front bar weapon). This means that you’ll have higher stats on the front bar, and should maximize your time there. Back Bar is typically reserved for longer DoTs and buffs, while front bar gets loaded with instant and hard-hitting abilities.

For tanks, the reasoning is a little different, since it’s less driven by set bonuses. Typically tanks have a weapon and shield on front bar, and stay there as much as possible because they have higher defensive stats there (as well as useful weapon skills like puncture and low slash). Most tanks run a staff on back bar (sometimes a bow) and therefore are more vulnerable there, a minimize their time on that bar.

jcm2606

The only thing I can think of is consistency between builds/players. The current convention of your first bar being your front bar, your second bar being your back bar, and specific weapons going on your front or back bar, just makes it easier to talk about builds with other people.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Another non combat difference is the weapon that is slot 1 will show up in your character login screen.

RogueShark

No difference mechanically. I run lightning front bar and resto backbar. xD

Vyvrhel

BTW does the hail retain the maelstrom bonus even after the bars are switched?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Vyvrhel wrote: »

BTW does the hail retain the maelstrom bonus even after the bars are switched?

Only if the skill actually started to damage the mob.

lukoi

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

The primary/front bar typically has an additional 5-piece set (3 armor or jewelry, and 2 from front bar weapon). This means that you’ll have higher stats on the front bar, and should maximize your time there.

Can someone, or @WrathOfInnos explain this part please? I don't see additional slots for gear. Is it possible for gear to swap as you swap bars (outside of the weapon obviously). Is the character capable of swapping entire outfits?

MashmalloMan

lukoi wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

The primary/front bar typically has an additional 5-piece set (3 armor or jewelry, and 2 from front bar weapon). This means that you’ll have higher stats on the front bar, and should maximize your time there.

Can someone, or @WrathOfInnos explain this part please? I don't see additional slots for gear. Is it possible for gear to swap as you swap bars (outside of the weapon obviously). Is the character capable of swapping entire outfits?

There are 12 slots to fill.

2 weapon slots (x2 front vs back)
7 body armor slots. (Head/shoulder available for monster sets)
3 Jewelry slots.

Here we see 10 of the slots are constant and never change with bar swapping. Most people use 5 body for 1 set, head/shoulder for monster set and jewelry + weapons for your final set. So 5+5+2. VMA bow and destro staff are so strong, that builds use them on the back bar, taking up the weapon slots of 1 of the front bar sets that use the weapons there. So on back bar it breaks down in to 5+3(out of 5 pieces)+2(vma)+2(monster set).

This isn't a dps loss when using sets like advancing yokeda as a front bar set, they work really well because the 5pc bonus lasts for 5 seconds, but your only on your back bar where the set could fall off for 3-4 seconds (ideally). Sets that don't last for a buff duration are fine too because you spend so little time on back bar anyway. Mothers sorrow is an example of still being strong as a front bar set even though the bonus is dropped on back bar.

Some builds, typically in pvp, can drop the monster set and use 2 ability altering weapon sets for front and backbar, this means both your 5 piece sets are active 100% of the time (1 set as body + 1 set as jewelry/shoulder/helm).

There are also 3pc sets that have become a bit unpopular. For that, you usually run them on jewelry, this is useful if you would like to use monster set + 1 5pc set + ability altering weapons on front AND back bar, the 3 pc sets are typically a little stronger than 3 pieces of a 5 pc set. Examples are the agility or potentates set.

Finally. Since you have 10 slots that are considered constant on body and jewelry, you can feel free to mix and match different parts. You don't NEED to use chest/legs/gloves/belt/boots as 1 set and necklace/rings/weapons as the 2nd 5pc set. It just makes it simple and easier to manage, especially if you switch between multiple sets for pvp builds.

The advantage of mix and matching is you can utilize the better armor bonuses. For example. If you are using 5 light armor, 1 heavy and 1 medium. I suggest using 1x heavy chest and 1x med helmet/shoulder/leg for a tiny bit extra armor because those pieces scale better for different armor weights.

Brrrofski

There isn't an actual front bar or back bar. You can put either weapon in either slot.

Main bar is a better name for front bar is I guess. This is where you do most your damage, healing or tanking. It's the bar you spend more time on. Your back bar or "off" bar is where you will keep your buffs, longer damage over time effects etc you switch to this, cast a few thing then go back to your front bar to do your main skills.

What people are referring to here is how some sets do not need to be active on both bars. So some sets you can just put on one bar (using a weapon for that set) and then have a different set on the other bar (such as ones from maelstrom or dragonstar arena.

For example, the maelstrom bow increase the damage of your endless hail - so you only need to put this on one bar - the one endless hail is on which is your "back" or "off" bar. You have your monster set, 5 piece body set sorted too.

So that leaves 3 jewellery and a main hand weapon. So you then use a set which is a proc set to increase your stats. For instance, briar heart will give you additional weapon damage once every 15 seconds when you crit. Once you get the extra damage, you keep it even if you swap bar. You only lose when the time elapses. That's what people mean by a front bar set and "extra slot".

lukoi

So the equipment isn't swapping (minus the weapons obviously), you're mixing sets (which I understand) and some are more valuable based on the bar that's up. Is that correct?

And obviously having different kit for PvE/PvP etc on hand makes sense. Are folks using an add-on to make quick swapping more viable.

MashmalloMan

lukoi wrote: »

So the equipment isn't swapping (minus the weapons obviously), you're mixing sets (which I understand) and some are more valuable based on the bar that's up. Is that correct?

Correct. Typically, you front load all of your stats to your front bar so skill placement is important too. The way the game works (for the most part) is ground aoe dots and single target dots, recalculate their damage every tick. Even if you are weaker on your back bar, you spend maybe 20%-30% of your time there in a rotation, when you switch to front, those dots base their damage off the front bar stats.

There are skills in the game like anything from the fighters guild for example, that add +3% weapon dmg for being slotted. The ultimate "flawless dawnbreaker" in the fighters guild adds a total of +8% weapon dmg for being slotted. Almost all stam DD setups front bar this ultimate in pve, slotting the ult they actually use on the back bar due to how strong that is passively.

lukoi wrote: »

And obviously having different kit for PvE/PvP etc on hand makes sense. Are folks using an add-on to make quick swapping more viable.

There are addons to do that, I use 1 for swapping setups from PvP, to PvE AoE Trash, to PvE Trials, PvE dungeons, etc. It even swaps out skills, it saves a ton of time. You need to be out of combat to do it however.

Since almost everyone and their mother uses an ability altering weapon on the back bar like VMA bow or VMA destro staff for pve, the sets that carry their 5pc bonus as a buff are usually more viable as "front bar" only sets allowing you to use a set that requires higher uptime as the main body set. This is why people use the Relequen set on both bars, so as to not have any chance to drop the set bonus that requires 20 light attacks to reach it's full dmg potential.

Some sta dd examples: Advancing Yokeda, Veiled Heritance, Briarheart, Twice Fanged Serpent, etc.

The way ZOS designs their sets usually over values "conditional" bonuses. Comparing Spriggan's to Twice Fanged Serpent shows this, 3450 penetration vs 4300 penetration.