Random guy executes ponzi scheme across 5 PC guilds then nukes guilds and discord

FungusCat

Guild leader guy logs in and starts blabbing about how the entire bank got robbed, its all over blah blah blah kind of stuff, blames it on some random dude, then nukes the guilds and discord a few minutes later. They had been pushing people to join all the sister guilds and invest a lot lately so its pretty obvious stuff.

As an EVE player this is pretty hilarious to me, good job and well done to him.

Just wanted to see what other players thoughts on this were, discuss.
(Two of the guilds were Tamriel Marketplace and Why Buy Elsweyr)

Edit because people can't read: I am not saying ESO is like EVE or that it should be, I am simply bringing up an event that happened and am sharing my own perspective and looking to see what other people think of said event.

Vildebill

albesca

You joined the forum just to write that?
Also, accusing people mentioning their names (naming and shaming) is not allowed by the forum's rules : https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843/community-rules

Thevampirenight

I was one of those people in Tamriel Marketplace. Its so sad a trading guild I joined got ruined by this.
I would edit out the name. Just say Someone Executes a Ponzi Scheme. I found that persons behavior odd though and basically everyone getting kicked to be very odd.

FungusCat

albesca wrote: »

You joined the forum just to write that?
Also, accusing people mentioning their names (naming and shaming) is not allowed by the forum's rules : https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843/community-rules

Um, yes. I am curious what ESO players think of gameplay like this. That and it was hilarious.
Actually I joined the forum yesterday for other reasons, this just ended up being my first post.

Thevampirenight

FungusCat wrote: »

albesca wrote: »

You joined the forum just to write that?
Also, accusing people mentioning their names (naming and shaming) is not allowed by the forum's rules : https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843/community-rules

Um, yes. I am curious what ESO players think of gameplay like this. That and it was hilarious.
Actually I joined the forum yesterday for other reasons, this just ended up being my first post.

This isn't very funny. Given this person might have multiple accounts and this possibly effected hundreds of people that were involved in those guilds. To have someone run an operation like this. Is brazenan. People might have put millions to help with the traders too, and they lost out because of this. Your comments really strike me as odd here. As if someone with an ego had something to brag about . Not saying your the one, just that this post kinda seems odd to me.

Guild leader guy logs in and starts blabbing about how the entire bank got robbed, its all over blah blah blah kind of stuff, blames it on some random dude, then nukes the guilds and discord a few minutes later. They had been pushing people to join all the sister guilds and invest a lot lately so its pretty obvious stuff.

As an EVE player this is pretty hilarious to me, good job and well done to him.

Zacuel

I knew big trading guilds were evil...

FungusCat

Thevampirenight wrote: »

This isn't very funny. Given this person has multiple accounts and this possibly effected hundreds of people that were involved in those guilds. To have someone run an operation like this. Is brazenan. People might have put millions to help with the traders too, and they lost out because of this. Your comments really strike me as odd here. As if someone with an ego had something to brag about but doing so in the third person. Not saying your the one, just that this post kinda seems odd and then the praise in your post, with this sounds really suspicious to me.

Well like I said, I am an EVE player where this kind of thing is a common part of the game and is to be expected, so it is interesting to me to see it happen outside of EVE and it makes me wonder how non-EVE players view something like this.

My personal view is that you shouldn't be leaving your stuff in the guild bank that you can't control or 'investing' large sums of gold and the not expect someone to take it. People who lost a lot of valuables can only blame themselves.

zyk

FungusCat wrote: »

Well like I said, I am an EVE player where this kind of thing is a common part of the game and is to be expected, so it is interesting to me to see it happen outside of EVE and it makes me wonder how non-EVE players view something like this.

This game is nothing like eve. Though I agree people should be more careful, I don't see why anyone should derive any kind of pleasure from the fact these players were defrauded.

Is it normal for you to enjoy the pain and suffering of others?

D0PAMINE

FungusCat wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

This isn't very funny. Given this person has multiple accounts and this possibly effected hundreds of people that were involved in those guilds. To have someone run an operation like this. Is brazenan. People might have put millions to help with the traders too, and they lost out because of this. Your comments really strike me as odd here. As if someone with an ego had something to brag about but doing so in the third person. Not saying your the one, just that this post kinda seems odd and then the praise in your post, with this sounds really suspicious to me.

Well like I said, I am an EVE player where this kind of thing is a common part of the game and is to be expected, so it is interesting to me to see it happen outside of EVE and it makes me wonder how non-EVE players view something like this.

My personal view is that you shouldn't be leaving your stuff in the guild bank that you can't control or 'investing' large sums of gold and the not expect someone to take it. People who lost a lot of valuables can only blame themselves.

In EvE robbing other players is part of the game. You can get Telvar from other players in IC but it's not exactly the same thing.

Thevampirenight

FungusCat wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

This isn't very funny. Given this person has multiple accounts and this possibly effected hundreds of people that were involved in those guilds. To have someone run an operation like this. Is brazenan. People might have put millions to help with the traders too, and they lost out because of this. Your comments really strike me as odd here. As if someone with an ego had something to brag about but doing so in the third person. Not saying your the one, just that this post kinda seems odd and then the praise in your post, with this sounds really suspicious to me.

Well like I said, I am an EVE player where this kind of thing is a common part of the game and is to be expected, so it is interesting to me to see it happen outside of EVE and it makes me wonder how non-EVE players view something like this.

My personal view is that you shouldn't be leaving your stuff in the guild bank that you can't control or 'investing' large sums of gold and the not expect someone to take it. People who lost a lot of valuables can only blame themselves.

Yeah I don't really ever put things in the guild bank unless I am taking something from it. I don't really take anything from the guild banks anyway since I don't have permission to do so. A good thing most block most folks from just doing so. To prevent this very thing. This person was also sending out guild mails. About the investments, I deleted a few of them but for some reason I kept one of them. I croped out the name of the sender. Yes what that person did was a ponzi scheme. At least five guilds got effected by this. From what I know but I am guessing its possibly more. This isn't just a simple bank robbing here. Someone planned this out and hopefully any other accounts and other people they used to do this get caught. And I really hope they don't pull this stuff in real life. All in all it is just sad

AlienSlof

What is 'ponzi' ?

To be honest, the more I see of the stunts humans pull, the more I love my cats.

FungusCat

Lady_Scorp72

Nope, not funny at all. ESO is not EVE, and in my experience a majority of players here don't want it to be. You're entitled to your opinion and beliefs of course, OP, but I hope you're the minority.

I don't have any experience with the guilds in question here, but in all my guilds people generally give gold and donate items to the bank because they believe in contributing to a group of people with whom they socialize and share common goals, not because they expect to get the money and items back. They do so because they enjoy being part of a tightknit community and want to help build shared guild hall resources or get a trader, things that are much more economical when done in a large group. When something like this happens, it's the feeling of being betrayed by someone liked and trusted that hurts, not the loss of some virtual gold.

FungusCat

zyk wrote: »

FungusCat wrote: »

Well like I said, I am an EVE player where this kind of thing is a common part of the game and is to be expected, so it is interesting to me to see it happen outside of EVE and it makes me wonder how non-EVE players view something like this.

This game is nothing like eve. Though I agree people should be more careful, I don't see why anyone should derive any kind of pleasure from the fact these players were defrauded.

Is it normal for you to enjoy the pain and suffering of others?

I'm not saying ESO is like EVE or that it should be. Simply stating that as an EVE player it is interesting to see this occur in another game.

And yes, at least if they brought it on themselves.

Thevampirenight

AlienSlof wrote: »

What is 'ponzi' ?

To be honest, the more I see of the stunts humans pull, the more I love my cats.

A Ponzi scheme is where investors invest, and they use that money to pay off old investors so maybe it ins't the right word for it. But basically they tricked many people by offering these investments, and in the end all of it was taken. In a guild bank style robbery. It could be classifed as a ponzi scheme I guess in this case because, they offered investments and I guess pay outs or rewards for doing it and then taking everything and running.

If you watched American Greed then you would know more about it as there is many epsiodes covering ponzi schemes. It really is sad people would do this to people but they do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

Now that I looked it up I think what this would be is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme or maybe a mix of both or just a robbery not sure what to call this one exactly but it was well planned and effected many guilds.

zyk

AlienSlof wrote: »

What is 'ponzi' ?

To be honest, the more I see of the stunts humans pull, the more I love my cats.

Do you want mine?

This is why many Star Trek fans believe the Ferengi were meant to depict contemporary human society. Some would argue the United States has a Grand Nagus.

Thevampirenight

Lets not talk about real life countries as that would well be not benfical to this thread Zyk,
Yeah greed can be a very bad thing some will do anything to get money including hurting many people in the process without care or remorse just for self benefit.

FungusCat

Thevampirenight wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

Now that I looked it up I think what this would be is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme or maybe a mix of both or just a robbery not sure what to call this one exactly but it was well planned and effected many guilds.

Yeah I thought about calling it a pyramid but ponzi was the first word that came up in the aftermath so I pretty much just ran with it lol

SFDB

It was more of a long con, the person led the guild and thus it was assumed he or she was acting in the guild's best interest. The GM pushed hard for sales and investors in the guild trader with the understanding that it was to help ensure the guild's future prosperity, and there was a Discord set up for it with members encouraged to participate. In other words, people were duped because the GM was doing what pretty much every other trade guild GM should be doing. Right up until they took all that money and shut down the guild.

What was particularly disgusting was that one member had invested in the guild and was good until summer. He wound up in the hospital and so asked his grandson to log in to his account for him since he couldn't and didn't want to be considered afk from his other guilds. The crooked GM tried to convince the kid his granddad should invest enough gold to cover an additional year. Fortunately one of the other members talked the kid out of it.

DBZVelena

This is why i don't join trade guilds that req dues of any kind.

ArchMikem

FungusCat wrote: »

albesca wrote: »

You joined the forum just to write that?
Also, accusing people mentioning their names (naming and shaming) is not allowed by the forum's rules : https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843/community-rules

Um, yes. I am curious what ESO players think of gameplay like this. That and it was hilarious.
Actually I joined the forum yesterday for other reasons, this just ended up being my first post.

Youre going to discover the majority think it to be annoying, trashy, and despicable.

This isnt your Hellish EVE.

Thevampirenight

FungusCat wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

Now that I looked it up I think what this would be is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme or maybe a mix of both or just a robbery not sure what to call this one exactly but it was well planned and effected many guilds.

Yeah I thought about calling it a pyramid but ponzi was the first word that came up in the aftermath so I pretty much just ran with it lol

I am in a guild that gives gold to those who invite in the most people. But it seems to be a good group of folks.While this right here was more of a investment scam and I think Ponzi would be the closet thing to it. I am guessing he and other guild leaders agreed to make an alliance with one another and this backfired on them by allowing him access to their guild banks. So not only did he/she defraud Tamriel Exchange but also other guilds as well when they went along with this investment alliance. How he/she managed to pull it off might be something that should be added into the lore books. Of how Guild traders managed to get everything stolen from them by a Rogue Trader and his friends through a scam.

Skwor

Honestly this story is short on detail and long on accusations/assumptions.

This could easily be a guild structure just collapsing which often looks the same but to the standard member looks nefarious, thus rumors and and accusations fly.

Really need more details.

Thevampirenight

Skwor wrote: »

Honestly this story is short on detail and long on accusations/assumptions.

This could easily be a guild structure just collapsing which often looks the same but to the standard member looks nefarious, thus rumors and and accusations fly.

Really need more details.

Well I didn't know it happened till I say the talk about everything being stolen from the guild bank. Discord got shut down after I joined it. Basically, to see what was happening and well then I guess the person was angry about it or was claiming to be angry and well after minutes he starting kicking people out. Some might say it was to cover their/his tracks. But I am not sure if that person doing the kicking was the one responsible for this or not or just another victim who just decided to shut the guild down. It is a sad fate for a guild though and hopefully the person or persons responsible will have to take this into account that this isn't allowed and from what I know or guess this is a banable offense.

FrancisCrawford

AlienSlof wrote: »

What is 'ponzi' ?

To be honest, the more I see of the stunts humans pull, the more I love my cats.

"Ponzi schemes" are easily googled. The most famous by far is the Bernie Madoff one. (Also easily googled.) By now, the term is used for other kinds of frauds that aren't, strictly speaking, Ponzi schemes. Indeed, I think this thread is such an example.

FrancisCrawford

Thevampirenight wrote: »

AlienSlof wrote: »

What is 'ponzi' ?

To be honest, the more I see of the stunts humans pull, the more I love my cats.

A Ponzi scheme is where investors invest, and they use that money to pay off old investors so maybe it ins't the right word for it. But basically they tricked many people by offering these investments, and in the end all of it was taken. In a guild bank style robbery. It could be classifed as a ponzi scheme I guess in this case because, they offered investments and I guess pay outs or rewards for doing it and then taking everything and running.

If you watched American Greed then you would know more about it as there is many epsiodes covering ponzi schemes. It really is sad people would do this to people but they do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

Now that I looked it up I think what this would be is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme or maybe a mix of both or just a robbery not sure what to call this one exactly but it was well planned and effected many guilds.

Strictly speaking, this sounds neither like a pyramid nor Ponzi scheme. In a Ponzi scheme, you are promised investment returns, and get them for a time, paid for (unbeknownst to you) out of future investments. In a pyramid scheme, you sell things to other people who will be sellers themselves, and make an initial investment to set the whole thing up. A Ponzi scheme is definitely a fraud; a pyramid scheme may just be a silly business idea. In both cases, they fail because they can't realistically keep working unless there is an ever-growing, never-limited number of new people willing to participate.

Thevampirenight

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

AlienSlof wrote: »

What is 'ponzi' ?

To be honest, the more I see of the stunts humans pull, the more I love my cats.

A Ponzi scheme is where investors invest, and they use that money to pay off old investors so maybe it ins't the right word for it. But basically they tricked many people by offering these investments, and in the end all of it was taken. In a guild bank style robbery. It could be classifed as a ponzi scheme I guess in this case because, they offered investments and I guess pay outs or rewards for doing it and then taking everything and running.

If you watched American Greed then you would know more about it as there is many epsiodes covering ponzi schemes. It really is sad people would do this to people but they do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

Now that I looked it up I think what this would be is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme or maybe a mix of both or just a robbery not sure what to call this one exactly but it was well planned and effected many guilds.

Strictly speaking, this sounds neither like a pyramid nor Ponzi scheme. In a Ponzi scheme, you are promised investment returns, and get them for a time, paid for (unbeknownst to you) out of future investments. In a pyramid scheme, you sell things to other people who will be sellers themselves, and make an initial investment to set the whole thing up. A Ponzi scheme is definitely a fraud; a pyramid scheme may just be a silly business idea. In both cases, they fail because they can't realistically keep working unless there is an ever-growing, never-limited number of new people willing to participate.

You might be right whatever it was. It was a Hiest for sure and I am sure it had many victims who fell for it. Had this been real life I am sure that person would have been put into prison for many years and had to pay back restitution. I really hope this person only does this in game and not in real life. As that would be much worse. Hopefully Zenimax will be able to investigate this and hopefully bring about the right course of action or punishment. If not then I hope this person learns from his mistakes and makes up for them some how.

SFDB

As far as details go:
The GM had been very gung *** about encouraging ways for members to make sells and draw people in with great prices. We'd get at least one email a week on this point and how it was pushing forward our goal of becoming a high end trading guild. The GM would occasionally mention there was a sister guild if people wanted to be in both. Our trader was eventually moved to Marbruk, and after a few weeks there was when the GM talked about forming an alliance with the other Marbruk traders (as the email screenshot shows) to basically push to have really good selection and prices and make Marbruk a hub of activity.

Within hours of that announcement, the GM told one of the officers they were going on a hiatus. Then they plundered the Guild Bank. The Discord server shut down, and people were ejected from the guild one by one. Again, hours after pushing for investment in the future of the guild, so it wasn't that things were on the brink and finally collapsed, every effort was being made to galvanize it, from the very top.

FungusCat

Skwor wrote: »

Honestly this story is short on detail and long on accusations/assumptions.

This could easily be a guild structure just collapsing which often looks the same but to the standard member looks nefarious, thus rumors and and accusations fly.

Really need more details.

Dude hops in chat and starts getting "angry" that we've been robbed by "xxx" while trying to get the other members angry, but never actually responds to anyone trying to talk to him. He goes from "I just found out a couple minutes ago" right to "ohhh its all over, everythings gone goodbye". Within a couple minutes the discord gets nuked, and all of the guilds are being taken down. Why would any leadership just nuke every guild AND discord within minutes of being robbed, especially without saying anything to anyone? Combine that with the fact the he up'd the "investment" advertising in the week leading up to this as shown in the mail by vampirenight, it's pretty obvious.

Thevampirenight

FungusCat wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Honestly this story is short on detail and long on accusations/assumptions.

This could easily be a guild structure just collapsing which often looks the same but to the standard member looks nefarious, thus rumors and and accusations fly.

Really need more details.

Dude hops in chat and starts getting "angry" that we've been robbed by "xxx" while trying to get the other members angry, but never actually responds to anyone trying to talk to him. He goes from "I just found out a couple minutes ago" right to "ohhh its all over, everythings gone goodbye". Within a couple minutes the discord gets nuked, and all of the guilds are being taken down. Why would any leadership just nuke every guild AND discord within minutes of being robbed, especially without saying anything to anyone? Combine that with the fact the he up'd the "investment" advertising in the week leading up to this as shown in the mail by vampirenight, it's pretty obvious.

That was the person being accused of robbing the bank of everything. But it might be the person who was complaining and being angry who most likely nuked the discord as he looked to be the controller of the site when I had a glimpse at the discord. . They were two different accounts. But it is possible they were the same person. I did find that odd and it was too quick. So I think they were either the same person or maybe worked together on this. Yeah it was really strange.