BGs a little wacked out?

Amksed1991

I consider myself very familiar with BG PvP.

That said, I was on my most geared and resisted character last night in a BG vsing another player. I was doing absolutely no damage to this person and this person turns around and hits me for 8K at one point and 9K another time with Ferocius Leap with 30K RES and 1 time when I was sprinting with Cowards Gear on (30% dmg reduction)

I have never been hit that hard before in non-CP PvP except with abilities like Soul Strike, Radiant, Zaans.

Not accusing this player of anything but is there a way that something is bugged and allowing players to keep their CP benefits?

Beardimus

Do you have the death recap / clip? Might help decipher.

Now and then i do see odd stuff happen, like a CP 300 wrecking whole teams the other night, but I try to keep my belief Theres a legit reason

ChunkyCat

Hmm. I noticed this too. I switched to Nord for the higher resists, putting me at 31k and 29k each, before blood spawn.

But I was being hit so freaking hard at times, it was like I was in light armor.

Not really sure if it’s me, or if the race changes with extra spell/weap damage really add a big punch.

Amksed1991

I do not have the death recaps but I remember them.

The 8.7K Leap was in a Chaos Ball match. I had the ball and was sprinting and in the midst of a couple people attacking me I was hit by 8.7K with their leap. (27% Dmg Reduction via resistance and 30% Dmg Reduction via Cowards 5pc Sprint)

The other was a 1v1 in the BG. Hit with 3x Punctures at 3.8K, 2x Light Attacks at 2.1K then the 9.1K Ferocious Leap. One of those Puncture/Light Attack combos was after his Ferocious Leap to finish me off.

Besides the Ferocious Leap, the Puncture/Light Attacks were the same exact damage each time.

technohic

Your not the first to mention this. I was not sure but I switched to Nord so did not notice a lot more damage but maybe I should have noticed a little less.

Vapirko

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Hmm. I noticed this too. I switched to Nord for the higher resists, putting me at 31k and 29k each, before blood spawn.

But I was being hit so freaking hard at times, it was like I was in light armor.

Not really sure if it’s me, or if the race changes with extra spell/weap damage really add a big punch.

No, shouldn’t be that at least not according to tooltips. The difference between last patch and now is in the low hundreds if anything.

technohic wrote: »

Your not the first to mention this. I was not sure but I switched to Nord so did not notice a lot more damage but maybe I should have noticed a little less.

I just spent my first day on a light armor magicka DK and I didn’t notice anything. Stamplar seemed fine as well.

Amksed1991

Vapirko wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Hmm. I noticed this too. I switched to Nord for the higher resists, putting me at 31k and 29k each, before blood spawn.

But I was being hit so freaking hard at times, it was like I was in light armor.

Not really sure if it’s me, or if the race changes with extra spell/weap damage really add a big punch.

No, shouldn’t be that at least not according to tooltips. The difference between last patch and now is in the low hundreds if anything.

technohic wrote: »

Your not the first to mention this. I was not sure but I switched to Nord so did not notice a lot more damage but maybe I should have noticed a little less.

I just spent my first day on a light armor magicka DK and I didn’t notice anything. Stamplar seemed fine as well.

I still think something is bugged.

Looking back to last night, I remember getting some pretty silly Dawnbreaker numbers that I never got before. Hitting between 7.5K-9K.

Noctus

the thing is u guys are mistaken becouse we have now more light/medium armor players going around in pvp. becouse more pve players are trying pvp right now. they dont run impen or smthing. they go full pve dps.

LordTareq

I also have also noticed far higher incoming damage. While normally I'd see non-execute attacks hit for 2-3k on my PvP tank, now its 4-6k. Something seems off.

Morgul667

I took a 12K executioner hit on heavy armor + hurricane

First time

Not sure what changed if anything but got wrecked more than usual

ChunkyCat

Maybe heavy armor resists got nerfed in the background.

Vapirko

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Maybe heavy armor resists got nerfed in the background.

Maybe this, I play only medium and light and it felt the same as Ive said before.

Rikumaru

Playing as a stamblade today, I haven't noticed my damage increase compared to before. Then again I don't have my addons which show my damage so I could be wrong on that. Would be nice to see damage increased again though, I loved the burst meta back in 2015 / 2016.

Nicalas

Damage seems really high. In heavy armor stamden with minor protection I took a frag for over 11k. It is the single highest damage I have ever taken in NO CP pvp. I’ve never even been sniped that high. Several occasions where I was at 90/95 percent HP and would instantly explode, this is with a top tier healer and FM/Vigor.

I was having some minor issues with insane damage pre patch tho. Instantly exploding in Heavy with blood spawn and major/minor protect. Just instantly deleted. 9k dawnbreakers etc.

vamp_emily

BGs are on steroids.

I really enjoy playing my NB, but with the recent changes those really good NBs are evil. I had 2 NBs tag team me yesterday and before I could focus on 1 I was dead.

Morgul667

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Maybe heavy armor resists got nerfed in the background.

could be

wheem_ESO

Nicalas wrote: »

Damage seems really high. In heavy armor stamden with minor protection I took a frag for over 11k. It is the single highest damage I have ever taken in NO CP pvp. I’ve never even been sniped that high. Several occasions where I was at 90/95 percent HP and would instantly explode, this is with a top tier healer and FM/Vigor.

I was having some minor issues with insane damage pre patch tho. Instantly exploding in Heavy with blood spawn and major/minor protect. Just instantly deleted. 9k dawnbreakers etc.

If those numbers are accurate, then I'd think that something must be bugged. Crystal Frags should not be hitting anywhere near 11k on heavy armor + minor protection + major resist buff (assuming max level and running Impenetrable trait). I can't even think of any gimmick build that would push the numbers that much over what's typical.

Urvoth

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Maybe heavy armor resists got nerfed in the background.

I felt like I was taking more dmg on my shields with light armor too though.

Kartalin

I feel like this is one of those things we won't know exactly what it is even after ZOS tells us they have fixed it (if indeed something is off). It may even be related to the unusual siege damage that is being seen in cyrodiil.

bardx86

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Nicalas wrote: »

Damage seems really high. In heavy armor stamden with minor protection I took a frag for over 11k. It is the single highest damage I have ever taken in NO CP pvp. I’ve never even been sniped that high. Several occasions where I was at 90/95 percent HP and would instantly explode, this is with a top tier healer and FM/Vigor.

I was having some minor issues with insane damage pre patch tho. Instantly exploding in Heavy with blood spawn and major/minor protect. Just instantly deleted. 9k dawnbreakers etc.

If those numbers are accurate, then I'd think that something must be bugged. Crystal Frags should not be hitting anywhere near 11k on heavy armor + minor protection + major resist buff (assuming max level and running Impenetrable trait). I can't even think of any gimmick build that would push the numbers that much over what's typical.

It absolute should hit that hard. It's the easiest skill to avoid. If it lands it should hurt.

wheem_ESO

bardx86 wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Nicalas wrote: »

Damage seems really high. In heavy armor stamden with minor protection I took a frag for over 11k. It is the single highest damage I have ever taken in NO CP pvp. I’ve never even been sniped that high. Several occasions where I was at 90/95 percent HP and would instantly explode, this is with a top tier healer and FM/Vigor.

I was having some minor issues with insane damage pre patch tho. Instantly exploding in Heavy with blood spawn and major/minor protect. Just instantly deleted. 9k dawnbreakers etc.

If those numbers are accurate, then I'd think that something must be bugged. Crystal Frags should not be hitting anywhere near 11k on heavy armor + minor protection + major resist buff (assuming max level and running Impenetrable trait). I can't even think of any gimmick build that would push the numbers that much over what's typical.

It absolute should hit that hard. It's the easiest skill to avoid. If it lands it should hurt.

You think a Crystal Frag should hit for 11k damage on someone wearing at least 5 pieces of heavy armor, with another 5,280 resists from buffs, and 8% damage reduction from minor protection? As someone who used to play a bit of Mag Sorc (haven't since around the time the Rune Cage "1-shot combo" was a thing), I must strongly disagree.

Either way, it doesn't hit that hard normally, which was my point. If he has the above-listed armor and buffs active, and still eats a Frag for 11k damage, something strange is going on.

JobooAGS

wheem_ESO wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Nicalas wrote: »

Damage seems really high. In heavy armor stamden with minor protection I took a frag for over 11k. It is the single highest damage I have ever taken in NO CP pvp. I’ve never even been sniped that high. Several occasions where I was at 90/95 percent HP and would instantly explode, this is with a top tier healer and FM/Vigor.

I was having some minor issues with insane damage pre patch tho. Instantly exploding in Heavy with blood spawn and major/minor protect. Just instantly deleted. 9k dawnbreakers etc.

If those numbers are accurate, then I'd think that something must be bugged. Crystal Frags should not be hitting anywhere near 11k on heavy armor + minor protection + major resist buff (assuming max level and running Impenetrable trait). I can't even think of any gimmick build that would push the numbers that much over what's typical.

It absolute should hit that hard. It's the easiest skill to avoid. If it lands it should hurt.

You think a Crystal Frag should hit for 11k damage on someone wearing at least 5 pieces of heavy armor, with another 5,280 resists from buffs, and 8% damage reduction from minor protection? As someone who used to play a bit of Mag Sorc (haven't since around the time the Rune Cage "1-shot combo" was a thing), I must strongly disagree.

Either way, it doesn't hit that hard normally, which was my point. If he has the above-listed armor and buffs active, and still eats a Frag for 11k damage, something strange is going on.

Your 8% minor protection and 5280 resists are negated by minor vulerability (comes from shock dmg in pvp usually) and ele drain respectfully. Additionally, about 4884 of your spell resists are negated by 5 piece light armor. Heavy armor builds without major ward/resolve are generally at about 18k resists, so against light armor you are sitting at an effective 13k resists. Now blood spawn can give you 6.6k resists, so you'd be at 19.6k equlivalent resists which is about 29% dmg reduction after battle spirit so about 79% total dmg reduction. Idk your crit resists, but Im assumijg that 11k hit was a crit, and a non kitty sorc with channeled would have a 1.6x crit modifier in bgs. 7 inpen would grant you about 27% resists against crits so a 1.6 modifier becomes a 1.33x modifier. So a 11k crit would have been about an 8.2k non crit. Frags has a 20% dmg increase so your 79% dmg reduction becomes 59%. So that frag had about a 20k initial tooltip.

Unless I missed something, it seems about right.

bardx86

wheem_ESO wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Nicalas wrote: »

Damage seems really high. In heavy armor stamden with minor protection I took a frag for over 11k. It is the single highest damage I have ever taken in NO CP pvp. I’ve never even been sniped that high. Several occasions where I was at 90/95 percent HP and would instantly explode, this is with a top tier healer and FM/Vigor.

I was having some minor issues with insane damage pre patch tho. Instantly exploding in Heavy with blood spawn and major/minor protect. Just instantly deleted. 9k dawnbreakers etc.

If those numbers are accurate, then I'd think that something must be bugged. Crystal Frags should not be hitting anywhere near 11k on heavy armor + minor protection + major resist buff (assuming max level and running Impenetrable trait). I can't even think of any gimmick build that would push the numbers that much over what's typical.

It absolute should hit that hard. It's the easiest skill to avoid. If it lands it should hurt.

You think a Crystal Frag should hit for 11k damage on someone wearing at least 5 pieces of heavy armor, with another 5,280 resists from buffs, and 8% damage reduction from minor protection? As someone who used to play a bit of Mag Sorc (haven't since around the time the Rune Cage "1-shot combo" was a thing), I must strongly disagree.

Either way, it doesn't hit that hard normally, which was my point. If he has the above-listed armor and buffs active, and still eats a Frag for 11k damage, something strange is going on.

Sorry we are gonna have to agree to disagree. Sorcs damage has been too low vers heavy armor for too long. Someone running heavy armor with 30k hp had nothing to fear from a sorc. IMO, if a sorc gets a full rotation off on someone and they do nothing to actively mitigate the damage they should die. I also think healing is too strong as well but that a whole different discussion.

wheem_ESO

JobooAGS wrote: »

Your 8% minor protection and 5280 resists are negated by minor vulerability (comes from shock dmg in pvp usually) and ele drain respectfully. Additionally, about 4884 of your spell resists are negated by 5 piece light armor. Heavy armor builds without major ward/resolve are generally at about 18k resists, so against light armor you are sitting at an effective 13k resists. Now blood spawn can give you 6.6k resists, so you'd be at 19.6k equlivalent resists which is about 29% dmg reduction after battle spirit so about 79% total dmg reduction. Idk your crit resists, but Im assumijg that 11k hit was a crit, and a non kitty sorc with channeled would have a 1.6x crit modifier in bgs. 7 inpen would grant you about 27% resists against crits so a 1.6 modifier becomes a 1.33x modifier. So a 11k crit would have been about an 8.2k non crit. Frags has a 20% dmg increase so your 79% dmg reduction becomes 59%. So that frag had about a 20k initial tooltip.

Unless I missed something, it seems about right.

I'm not the person that got hit by an 11k Crystal Frag, I was just responding to him. For quite some time now I've been using either 5 or 6 light armor pieces, with the remainder being heavy, along with the resists from Pirate Skeleton, 3x Protective Jewelry, and the Breton racial. And as a Magicka Warden, I can self-buff Major Resolve/Ward, and Minor Protection (prior to the racial change, my Spell Resist would hit something like 30k-32k self buffed).

The highest Crystal Frags I remember seeing in death recaps are probably around 7k, and that's most likely when I missed re-buffing in combat. I don't get hit for 11k by Dawnbreaker, even though; 1) it's an ultimate, 2) I have lower physical resist than spell resist, and 3) I'm a Vampire and take extra damage from it.

bardx86 wrote: »

Sorry we are gonna have to agree to disagree. Sorcs damage has been too low vers heavy armor for too long. Someone running heavy armor with 30k hp had nothing to fear from a sorc. IMO, if a sorc gets a full rotation off on someone and they do nothing to actively mitigate the damage they should die. I also think healing is too strong as well but that a whole different discussion.

I think your suggestion would be completely ruinous for team-based PvP, especially so long as there are 3 teams on the battlefield. It would also put Mag Sorc single target damage so far and away ahead of everyone else that in very short order BGs would be nothing but Mag Sorcs and wing spamming DKs. Being able to basically 1-shot people with Crystal Frag -> Destructive Clench/Reach -> Crystal Frag would be utterly broken.

If we're basing the damage on something based on how easy it is to avoid, my Mag Warden's Shalks should hit harder than your Crystal Frag - you don't even have to burn Stamina on a dodge roll to avoid my burst. Basic movement, stuns, knockbacks, pulls, roots, and just plain ole standing on top of me can all do a fine job. How hard should my Shalks hit? Like 15k or so?

JobooAGS

wheem_ESO wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Your 8% minor protection and 5280 resists are negated by minor vulerability (comes from shock dmg in pvp usually) and ele drain respectfully. Additionally, about 4884 of your spell resists are negated by 5 piece light armor. Heavy armor builds without major ward/resolve are generally at about 18k resists, so against light armor you are sitting at an effective 13k resists. Now blood spawn can give you 6.6k resists, so you'd be at 19.6k equlivalent resists which is about 29% dmg reduction after battle spirit so about 79% total dmg reduction. Idk your crit resists, but Im assumijg that 11k hit was a crit, and a non kitty sorc with channeled would have a 1.6x crit modifier in bgs. 7 inpen would grant you about 27% resists against crits so a 1.6 modifier becomes a 1.33x modifier. So a 11k crit would have been about an 8.2k non crit. Frags has a 20% dmg increase so your 79% dmg reduction becomes 59%. So that frag had about a 20k initial tooltip.

Unless I missed something, it seems about right.

I'm not the person that got hit by an 11k Crystal Frag, I was just responding to him. For quite some time now I've been using either 5 or 6 light armor pieces, with the remainder being heavy, along with the resists from Pirate Skeleton, 3x Protective Jewelry, and the Breton racial. And as a Magicka Warden, I can self-buff Major Resolve/Ward, and Minor Protection (prior to the racial change, my Spell Resist would hit something like 30k-32k self buffed).

The highest Crystal Frags I remember seeing in death recaps are probably around 7k, and that's most likely when I missed re-buffing in combat. I don't get hit for 11k by Dawnbreaker, even though; 1) it's an ultimate, 2) I have lower physical resist than spell resist, and 3) I'm a Vampire and take extra damage from it.

bardx86 wrote: »

Sorry we are gonna have to agree to disagree. Sorcs damage has been too low vers heavy armor for too long. Someone running heavy armor with 30k hp had nothing to fear from a sorc. IMO, if a sorc gets a full rotation off on someone and they do nothing to actively mitigate the damage they should die. I also think healing is too strong as well but that a whole different discussion.

I think your suggestion would be completely ruinous for team-based PvP, especially so long as there are 3 teams on the battlefield. It would also put Mag Sorc single target damage so far and away ahead of everyone else that in very short order BGs would be nothing but Mag Sorcs and wing spamming DKs. Being able to basically 1-shot people with Crystal Frag -> Destructive Clench/Reach -> Crystal Frag would be utterly broken.

If we're basing the damage on something based on how easy it is to avoid, my Mag Warden's Shalks should hit harder than your Crystal Frag - you don't even have to burn Stamina on a dodge roll to avoid my burst. Basic movement, stuns, knockbacks, pulls, roots, and just plain ole standing on top of me can all do a fine job. How hard should my Shalks hit? Like 15k or so?

May I ask what your physical and crit resists are and your typical crit and non crit hit from db?

wheem_ESO

JobooAGS wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Your 8% minor protection and 5280 resists are negated by minor vulerability (comes from shock dmg in pvp usually) and ele drain respectfully. Additionally, about 4884 of your spell resists are negated by 5 piece light armor. Heavy armor builds without major ward/resolve are generally at about 18k resists, so against light armor you are sitting at an effective 13k resists. Now blood spawn can give you 6.6k resists, so you'd be at 19.6k equlivalent resists which is about 29% dmg reduction after battle spirit so about 79% total dmg reduction. Idk your crit resists, but Im assumijg that 11k hit was a crit, and a non kitty sorc with channeled would have a 1.6x crit modifier in bgs. 7 inpen would grant you about 27% resists against crits so a 1.6 modifier becomes a 1.33x modifier. So a 11k crit would have been about an 8.2k non crit. Frags has a 20% dmg increase so your 79% dmg reduction becomes 59%. So that frag had about a 20k initial tooltip.

Unless I missed something, it seems about right.

I'm not the person that got hit by an 11k Crystal Frag, I was just responding to him. For quite some time now I've been using either 5 or 6 light armor pieces, with the remainder being heavy, along with the resists from Pirate Skeleton, 3x Protective Jewelry, and the Breton racial. And as a Magicka Warden, I can self-buff Major Resolve/Ward, and Minor Protection (prior to the racial change, my Spell Resist would hit something like 30k-32k self buffed).

The highest Crystal Frags I remember seeing in death recaps are probably around 7k, and that's most likely when I missed re-buffing in combat. I don't get hit for 11k by Dawnbreaker, even though; 1) it's an ultimate, 2) I have lower physical resist than spell resist, and 3) I'm a Vampire and take extra damage from it.

bardx86 wrote: »

Sorry we are gonna have to agree to disagree. Sorcs damage has been too low vers heavy armor for too long. Someone running heavy armor with 30k hp had nothing to fear from a sorc. IMO, if a sorc gets a full rotation off on someone and they do nothing to actively mitigate the damage they should die. I also think healing is too strong as well but that a whole different discussion.

I think your suggestion would be completely ruinous for team-based PvP, especially so long as there are 3 teams on the battlefield. It would also put Mag Sorc single target damage so far and away ahead of everyone else that in very short order BGs would be nothing but Mag Sorcs and wing spamming DKs. Being able to basically 1-shot people with Crystal Frag -> Destructive Clench/Reach -> Crystal Frag would be utterly broken.

If we're basing the damage on something based on how easy it is to avoid, my Mag Warden's Shalks should hit harder than your Crystal Frag - you don't even have to burn Stamina on a dodge roll to avoid my burst. Basic movement, stuns, knockbacks, pulls, roots, and just plain ole standing on top of me can all do a fine job. How hard should my Shalks hit? Like 15k or so?

May I ask what your physical and crit resists are and your typical crit and non crit hit from db?

My physical resists are usually either 22,830 or 24,520 self buffed when on the front bar (slightly higher on the back bar due to the Frozen Armor passive and 1 Winter's Embrace ability). My crit resist is whatever you end up with from 7 pieces of purple Impenetrable (yes, I should gold the stuff out, but I'm lazy).

From what I see with Dawnbreaker in my death recap, the typical up-front hits are probably in the 4k-5k range, and occasionally higher. I had one hit freakishly hard not terribly long ago, and came in at 8,427. Chances are good that my self buff was down, and I was probably pretty heavily debuffed at the time, too.

On average, Crystal Frag damage on me tends to be a little lower than the up-front Dawnbreaker damage, but the gap often isn't all that large. If it was usually hitting me for 11k - double or more what it generally does now - I'd be quitting the game pretty much immediately.