Idiotic behavior of chasing enemies (PVE)

Alleon

Why on earth would some stupid enemy NPC chase me all the way just to hit me once and then run the f*ck away? This is so annoying. Why not have them give up the chase without giving me that "one bi*ch slap" or if they decide to attack then have them fully commited? It reminds me of those 6yo kids that want to poke you and run away yelling "lalalalala". It's stupid! And infuriating!

Hati

Just put some AoE skill on the ground, while running, if gets hit after chasing way too far they stop and run away

I agree with you, it's kinda annoying, but yet, this is minor, and we have a lot to discuss first

Alleon

Hati wrote: »

Just put some AoE skill on the ground, while running, if gets hit after chasing way too far they stop and run away

I agree with you, it's kinda annoying, but yet, this is minor, and we have a lot to discuss first

It is most annoying while riding a horse. Sure its a minor problem, Im just stating there are better ways to program that AI behavior. And Ive seen it handled way better in other MMOs.

Nestor

You can run far enough that they will just give up and go away. In the MMO world, this is called Reaching the End of Their Leash.

Now, as to why some have to get that hit in is they are still in combat and that condition is not checked until they actually engage. It comes down to Patrol Area. If you engage combat before they leave their patrol area, you have a fight. If you lead them outside their patrol area, then they will engage until the first hit, unless you run past their leash. The first hit triggers the combat conditions check, which the first one is, are you near your patrol point?

I am sure they could up the refresh rate and get the In Combat and Patrol area lag tighter, but that would probably come at the expense of World Performance.

Me, I just RP it as the NPCs are chasing me away, and giving me a "And Stay Away" at the end. I also play Yackety Sax in my head as I ride through a bunch of mobs.

Zacuel

I thought you were talking about pvp in cyrodiil. Where a guy hits you and you try chasing him across the map or around trees and boulders.

Also annoying. Especially when they attack you when you give up the chase just to start running again.

Alleon

Nestor wrote: »

You can run far enough that they will just give up and go away. In the MMO world, this is called Reaching the End of Their Leash.

Now, as to why some have to get that hit in is they are still in combat and that condition is not checked until they actually engage. It comes down to Patrol Area. If you engage combat before they leave their patrol area, you have a fight. If you lead them outside their patrol area, then they will engage until the first hit, unless you run past their leash. The first hit triggers the combat conditions check, which the first one is, are you near your patrol point?

I am sure they could up the refresh rate and get the In Combat and Patrol area lag tighter, but that would probably come at the expense of World Performance.

Me, I just RP it as the NPCs are chasing me away, and giving me a "And Stay Away" at the end. I also play Yackety Sax in my head as I ride through a bunch of mobs.

Well mostly how its done (and it should be done in my opinion) is:

condition: player within attack range;
action: check if within leash range;
if yes: commence a figtht;
if no: play the exiting audio line and return to regular patrol;

How ESO seems to handle it:

condition: player within attack range;
action: commence a figtht;
action: check if within leash range;
if yes: continue the fight;
if no: hit once, exit the fight and return to regular patrol;


EDIT: It looks like ESO is missing that one leash check before the enemy is pushed into a fight, instead that check happens right after fight starts resutling in silly one hit throwing off mount. And while I dont have anything against being throwed off mount the frustrating part is when u want to retaliate you find urself discovering that stupid idiot is pulling "naaaah! just kidding lalalala" on you.

EDIT2: when I use "fight" above I mean actual exchange of blows, not the combat event which is obviously started after aggro.

zaria

Hati wrote: »

Just put some AoE skill on the ground, while running, if gets hit after chasing way too far they stop and run away

I agree with you, it's kinda annoying, but yet, this is minor, and we have a lot to discuss first

Wall of elements is perfect here, caltrops also work well.

But yes its an annoying mechanism especially if some was pulled so close they will continue.

srfrogg23

Alleon wrote: »

Why on earth would some stupid enemy NPC chase me all the way just to hit me once and then run the f*ck away? This is so annoying. Why not have them give up the chase without giving me that "one bi*ch slap" or if they decide to attack then have them fully commited? It reminds me of those 6yo kids that want to poke you and run away yelling "lalalalala". It's stupid! And infuriating!

Yup. I've noticed it happens in just about every MMO I've played. I'm not sure why, though.

It's like, if you're going to hit me, you could at least stick around long enough for me to kill you, lol.

xxthir13enxx

LeeeeeeRoooooyyyy Jeeeeeeeenkins!!!!!!

Alleon

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Alleon wrote: »

Why on earth would some stupid enemy NPC chase me all the way just to hit me once and then run the f*ck away? This is so annoying. Why not have them give up the chase without giving me that "one bi*ch slap" or if they decide to attack then have them fully commited? It reminds me of those 6yo kids that want to poke you and run away yelling "lalalalala". It's stupid! And infuriating!

Yup. I've noticed it happens in just about every MMO I've played. I'm not sure why, though.

You sure You didnt mean the opposite? What commonly happen is if the enemy throws u off mount then u fight them. On the other hand "kick u in the nuts only to run away" kind of behavior I only met in ESO.

Liferefugee

Alleon wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

You can run far enough that they will just give up and go away. In the MMO world, this is called Reaching the End of Their Leash.

Now, as to why some have to get that hit in is they are still in combat and that condition is not checked until they actually engage. It comes down to Patrol Area. If you engage combat before they leave their patrol area, you have a fight. If you lead them outside their patrol area, then they will engage until the first hit, unless you run past their leash. The first hit triggers the combat conditions check, which the first one is, are you near your patrol point?

I am sure they could up the refresh rate and get the In Combat and Patrol area lag tighter, but that would probably come at the expense of World Performance.

Me, I just RP it as the NPCs are chasing me away, and giving me a "And Stay Away" at the end. I also play Yackety Sax in my head as I ride through a bunch of mobs.

Well mostly how its done (and it should be done in my opinion) is:

condition: player within attack range;
action: check if within leash range;
if yes: commence a figtht;
if no: play the exiting audio line and return to regular patrol;

How ESO seems to handle it:

condition: player within attack range;
action: commence a figtht;
action: check if within leash range;
if yes: continue the fight;
if no: hit once, exit the fight and return to regular patrol;


EDIT: It looks like ESO is missing that one leash check before the enemy is pushed into a fight, instead that check happens right after fight starts resutling in silly one hit throwing off mount. And while I dont have anything against being throwed off mount the frustrating part is when u want to retaliate you find urself discovering that stupid idiot is pulling "naaaah! just kidding lalalala" on you.

EDIT2: when I use "fight" above I mean actual exchange of blows, not the combat event which is obviously started after aggro.

You seem to be forgetting that to follow you in the first place the npc has already engaged in combat where the leash check passes. That probably queued the first attack, but running out of range triggers a "get in range for attack" check, then the next leash check occurs to start the second attack sequence.

Alleon

Liferefugee wrote: »

Alleon wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

You can run far enough that they will just give up and go away. In the MMO world, this is called Reaching the End of Their Leash.

Now, as to why some have to get that hit in is they are still in combat and that condition is not checked until they actually engage. It comes down to Patrol Area. If you engage combat before they leave their patrol area, you have a fight. If you lead them outside their patrol area, then they will engage until the first hit, unless you run past their leash. The first hit triggers the combat conditions check, which the first one is, are you near your patrol point?

I am sure they could up the refresh rate and get the In Combat and Patrol area lag tighter, but that would probably come at the expense of World Performance.

Me, I just RP it as the NPCs are chasing me away, and giving me a "And Stay Away" at the end. I also play Yackety Sax in my head as I ride through a bunch of mobs.

Well mostly how its done (and it should be done in my opinion) is:

condition: player within attack range;
action: check if within leash range;
if yes: commence a figtht;
if no: play the exiting audio line and return to regular patrol;

How ESO seems to handle it:

condition: player within attack range;
action: commence a figtht;
action: check if within leash range;
if yes: continue the fight;
if no: hit once, exit the fight and return to regular patrol;


EDIT: It looks like ESO is missing that one leash check before the enemy is pushed into a fight, instead that check happens right after fight starts resutling in silly one hit throwing off mount. And while I dont have anything against being throwed off mount the frustrating part is when u want to retaliate you find urself discovering that stupid idiot is pulling "naaaah! just kidding lalalala" on you.

EDIT2: when I use "fight" above I mean actual exchange of blows, not the combat event which is obviously started after aggro.

You seem to be forgetting that to follow you in the first place the npc has already engaged in combat where the leash check passes. That probably queued the first attack, but running out of range triggers a "get in range for attack" check, then the next leash check occurs to start the second attack sequence.

Check my edit2, by fight I mean the echange of blows/spells etc, whole combat event is another thing and it obviously starts upon aggroing an enemy. You must be within a leash range upon the aggro event since aggro range cannot be greater then the leashing range (leash range is the distance that an enemy is willing to chase a player).

EDIT: You can substitute "fight" by an "attack action" if it is more clear to You.

xxthir13enxx

Funny thing is...I expected this to be about people getting kited in PVP...lol

mxxo

Another part of unnecessary, artificial playtime prolonging.

danno8

The entire "in-combat" algorithm could use a pass.

Or three.

Alleon

xxthir13enxx wrote: »

Funny thing is...I expected this to be about people getting kited in PVP...lol

I fixed that for You.

Asys

how about kill instead of being a little puss

Suddwrath

They are just wanting to play tag with you

Alleon

Asys wrote: »

how about kill instead of being a little puss

You clearly have no idea what am I talking about here bro.

alanmatillab16_ESO

Nestor wrote: »

Me, I just RP it as the NPCs are chasing me away, and giving me a "And Stay Away" at the end. I also play Yackety Sax in my head as I ride through a bunch of mobs.

Yackety Sax makes just about any scene funny. This one is my favourite

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cFucXYlw94

Alleon

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Me, I just RP it as the NPCs are chasing me away, and giving me a "And Stay Away" at the end. I also play Yackety Sax in my head as I ride through a bunch of mobs.

Yackety Sax makes just about any scene funny. This one is my favourite

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cFucXYlw94

Lol thats basically me trying to avoid all the sh*t wanting me off my mount

ghastley

Remember that the whole system is event-driven. There has to be an event to cause the re-evaluation of the combat state.

If that was simply "player leaves guarded area" then the NPC could stop chasing, but that would also mean it wouldn't be possible to kite one away from their support group. So the event being used is the "strike" one for the combat. Leaving an AoE behind you satisfies that if it hits, or the "hit and run" from the OP. Checking on too many events is inefficient, and would cause lag.

The current situation is quite a reasonable compromise.

Alleon

ghastley wrote: »

Remember that the whole system is event-driven. There has to be an event to cause the re-evaluation of the combat state.

If that was simply "player leaves guarded area" then the NPC could stop chasing, but that would also mean it wouldn't be possible to kite one away from their support group. So the event being used is the "strike" one for the combat. Leaving an AoE behind you satisfies that if it hits, or the "hit and run" from the OP. Checking on too many events is inefficient, and would cause lag.

The current situation is quite a reasonable compromise.

The game is constantly checking if the enemy went out of the leashing range and we are talking adding only one check (or event if u will). We are talking adding one check if the player is bascially too far just before the very first strike occur to avoid situation like: mob is chasing you, then u get hit once, throwed off mount, want to fight that mob (out of pure anger or whatever), and the enemy decides that it should go back to its spawn point. Thats the essetianl case im talking here.

In that example clearly said check occurs after the first hit of the enemy is done.

HawkFest

This is as much annoying as the "in combat" status which applies even you're relatively far form the combat zone (and/or when other members of the group are in combat). Especially when you're approaching your PvP group already in battle and you can't change your gear, or more often a skill, for instance a skill replacing that rapid or retreating maneuver you were using to get there... Also when an NPC from a nearby resource area that was left untaken is running behind you while you're getting to the combat zone.

HawkFest

HawkFest wrote: »

This is as much annoying as the "in combat" status which applies even you're relatively far form the combat zone (and/or when other members of the group are in combat). Especially when you're approaching your PvP group already in battle and you can't change your gear, or more often a skill, for instance a skill replacing that rapid or retreating maneuver you were using to get there... Also when an NPC from a nearby resource area that was left untaken is running behind you while you're getting to the combat zone.

IMHO, when you're not fighting anything and (more over) are in a "hidden" state, then that "in combat" status should move away...

Guyle

Leashing on mobs has always been a pos in this game, and its still bad after the "fix" they put in a year or two ago. Used to be worse believe it or not, but its still pretty awful. You can actually get stuck in a never ending cycle of trash never completely de-aggroing, because they tag team aggro/de-aggro. Because mobs will aggro if you do damage to another individual in their group and aggro as a collective but don't de-aggro as a collective, you can actually have something come up to you, de-aggro, then its little buddy who just got aggro'd because its group mate was aggro'd comes up to you, de-aggros, but not before the original aggroee has reset and now re-aggro'd because his buddy is still aggro'd. This can go on and on forever.

ZOS_ConnorG

Greetings all,

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