Dark Cloak Build - Armor Master vs Plague Doctor

ChefZero

Before we start few notes for you:

• This topic is NOT about how to achieve highest DC HpS. The builds are intended for melee brawling.
• BS and AP are only an example. But Monsterset + LA set + AM/PD are requiered.
• Values only calculated by UESP Builder. NOT Tested! Seems like Update 21 function (racial and CP bonus changes!!!) is broken atm.
• S&B backbar is just an example, Restro is also possible.
• Values from CP, but we can also talk about No-CP.
• Effective Spell Damage doesn't include damage glyph proc

Armor Master

Magicka 38.9k/37.5k
Health 30.2k/34.1k
Effective Spell Damage 7225
Physical Resistance 32.4k
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=116210

Pros:
+ Able to run an arena/willpower staff frontbar = more damage
+ More migitgation full buffed

Cons:
- You have to run Harness/Dampen backbar


Plague Doctor

Magicka 36.8k/37.4k
Health 36.9k/40.0k
Effective Spell Damage 6991
Physical Resistance 24.1k
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=113589

Pros:
+ More Dark Cloak HpS
+ Healing Taken increased in general
+ Better off-guard survivability
+ Better scaling of Undead passive
+ Will get a hidden buff in CP with Update 21

Cons:
- Less mitigation overall
- Less damage


Questions:

• How big is the gap between both sets in terms of effective health (connection of health and mitigation)? We are talking about AM ~8k more Res to PD ~6k (should be 7.2k in CP with U21) more HP.
• Is the difference in damage by ~250 Effective Spell Damage noticeable? The value will change with the changes to Dunmer.
• Viability CP and No-CP?

If you give me good pros and cons I will add them to my list.

MalagenR

Plague Doctor

ChefZero wrote: »

Before we start few notes for you:

• This topic is NOT about how to achieve highest DC HpS. The builds are intended for melee brawling.
• BS and AP are only an example. But Monsterset + LA set + AM/PD are requiered.
• Values only calculated by UESP Builder. NOT Tested! Seems like Update 21 function (racial and CP bonus changes!!!) is broken atm.
• S&B backbar is just an example, Restro is also possible.
• Values from CP, but we can also talk about No-CP.
• Effective Spell Damage doesn't include damage glyph proc

Armor Master

Magicka 38.9k/37.5k
Health 30.2k/34.1k
Effective Spell Damage 7225
Physical Resistance 32.4k
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=116210

Pros:
+ Able to run an arena/willpower staff frontbar = more damage
+ More migitgation full buffed

Cons:
- You have to run Harness/Dampen backbar


Plague Doctor

Magicka 36.8k/37.4k
Health 36.9k/40.0k
Effective Spell Damage 6991
Physical Resistance 24.1k
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=113589

Pros:
+ More Dark Cloak HpS
+ Healing Taken increased in general
+ Better off-guard survivability
+ Better scaling of Undead passive
+ Will get a hidden buff in CP with Update 21

Cons:
- Less mitigation overall
- Less damage


Questions:

• How big is the gap between both sets in terms of effective health (connection of health and mitigation)? We are talking about AM ~8k more Res to PD ~6k (should be 7.2k in CP with U21) more HP.
• Is the difference in damage by ~250 Effective Spell Damage noticeable? The value will change with the changes to Dunmer.
• Viability CP and No-CP?

If you give me good pros and cons I will add them to my list.

I think that if you include the damage glyph that due to multipliers the gap between effective damage will be larger than 250. Overall, I think that there probably is a break even point between the scales of resists & hp, where to much of one has diminishing returns compared to the other.

I'm of the opinion that you should go with whatever is reinforced better with your passives / actives, and when you pick something, you go all in on it.

Overall, I went Plague Doctor. Your other choice of set has a serious impact on which of these you go with though. If you still want to use Willpower or Arena FB then you will need Lich backbar. If you don't run Lich backbar, then you would need to run Armor Master Backbar with Bright Throats or Shacklebreaker Front Bar.

Simply put, you need the Mag Recovery, period.

ChefZero

MalagenR wrote: »

I think that if you include the damage glyph that due to multipliers the gap between effective damage will be larger than 250. Overall, I think that there probably is a break even point between the scales of resists & hp, where to much of one has diminishing returns compared to the other.

The proc of the glyph affects both builds such as the dunmer spell damage with update 21. So the delta should be the same.

Iskiab

Armor Master

I voted armour master. Saw 20k vs 30k resists and it seemed like a no brainer to me. The 6k health won’t do anything for your survivability because you’d be taking too much damage.

ChefZero

Iskiab wrote: »

I voted armour master. Saw 20k vs 30k resists and it seemed like a no brainer to me. The 6k health won’t do anything for your survivability because you’d be taking too much damage.

8.3k ph res vs 7.2k health (with update 21)

If it's a no brainier could you please show some math about it?

Iskiab

Armor Master

I’m not a mathy person, I do math for fine tuning but I go more on instinct.

I like being really aggressive in pvp. I find without enough mitigation you take too much spike damage and get in a defensive rut or get bursted down too easily. You can spam defensive abilities to stay alive but can’t be offensive too. It’s hard to explain, but I prefer to take less damage and mitigate more so I have time to attack too.

I usually heal in pvp so I’m no expert at dps.

ChefZero

Iskiab wrote: »

I’m not a mathy person, I do math for fine tuning but I go more on instinct.

I like being really aggressive in pvp. I find without enough mitigation you take too much spike damage and get in a defensive rut or get bursted down too easily. You can spam defensive abilities to stay alive but can’t be offensive too. It’s hard to explain, but I prefer to take less damage and mitigate more so I have time to attack too.

I usually heal in pvp so I’m no expert at dps.

Well I have some math for you. There are two different kinds of comparison, effective health and time to kill.

Effective health is an easy and quick way to simulate a burst and describes the amount of raw damage needed to delete the health bar. For demonstration I will pick only a few types of mitigation.

Battle Spirit 50% + Minor Maim 15% + Physical Resistance (AM offers 49.1% / PD offers 36,5%) + Minor Protection 8% = 80.1%/75.2% total mitigation

The counterpart to mitigation is damage done and is the important one for calculations. 80.1% mitigation is 19.9% damage done on AM and 75.2% mitigation is 24.8% damage done on PD. To calculate the effective health we have a divide maximum health with damage done factor.

Armor Master Effective Health = 30.2k : 0.199 = 151.8k

Plague Doctor Effective Health = 36.9k : 0.248 = 148.8k

Time to kill is a more complex way to calculate but also more detailed way so you can involve Dark Cloak HpS for example.

First we need the DpS, to do that we can multiply a fictitious number with a damage done factor we already calculated.

AM DpS = 20000 x 0.199 = 3980

PD DpS = 20000 x 0.248 = 4960

Now we need the HpS from Dark Cloak. UESP calculate a healing done value for us, it's 56.1% on AM and 58.3% on PD in PvP.

AM HpS = 30.2k x 0.35 : 3.4 x 0.561 = 1740

PD HpS = 36.9k x 0.35 : 3.4 x 0.583 = 2210

Next we have to substract HpS from DpS.

AM D-HpS = 3980 - 1740 = 2240

PD D-HpS = 4960 - 2210 = 2750

Last one for TTK, substract max health and the damage income.

Armor Master TTK = 30.2k : 2240 = 13.48 s

Plague Doctor TTK = 36.9k : 2750 = 13.42 s

Actually AM seems slightly ahead but the calculations are without healcrits, defensive CPs and the increased health with update 21. With a spellcrit of over 33% we can expect one crit per Dark Cloak. Also TTK is a theoretical value so PD is even stronger when I blockcast Dark Cloak or dodge roll after cast.

Another story is that PD doesn't affect shields. Also higher mitigation is more potent on other sources of healing income. But higher max health can better utilize overhealing, for example strong incoming burst heals from an allied healer in a busy group fight.


Well it isn't that easy..

biggda76

Both are no damage I would choose option to make other build. Really the effective spell damage is very low

Jeezye

Armor Master

Actually none - I don't think your should choose your sets to make dark cloak effective, choose them to fit your play style.

From my experience dark cloak works best with high crit rate as wells as a minimum of 30k hp (on both bars!). This, alongside with the need to do damage always forces me to run light armor for the regen, crit and penetration.

To achieve 30k hp, simply run one of your preferred hp foods, triune jewelry (also very important for stam management) and tristat glyphs on big pieces. If you don't have hp racials and can't hit the 30k mark, simply invest a few attributes into hp.

Now to set comparison, I think that armor master is the ideal fit - especially if you want to combine it with s/b. Reason is, on s/b you can really nicely min max your mag-hp ratio to hit the ideal harness tooltip with the additional armor glyph. Plague doctor just doesn't provide enough raw stats imo unless you want to build full tank, plus you are likely to be forced into heavy armor.

However, I don't really like any of these sets since I feel it is much more effective to run Bloodspawn/pirate skeleton for tankyness and choose between offensive, defensive and sustain sets in your 5 pieces