4.3 Weapon Traits/Enchants options for tanks

commdt

Hey fellow tanks! What do you think about the meta setup in the upcoming patch? Obviously, infused crusher goes to back bar Destro staff/Bow. But what about main bar? Im already trying something for the new patch and found infused electro enchant to be a good option for dungeon runs (without a healer). The only thing we want from it is concussion proc and it wont be nerfed. So even with mag sorc i do like +15-20% extra concussion which looks nice.
But in trials we dont generally need extra concussion, so whats then? Some Decisive trait + any random enchant like weakening? Or maybe alchemical poison? But poison procs only on direct attacks so for a tank it would be like once in 25 seconds which is not very strong. And then again, Vulnurability, minor fracture and breach are already present in good trial group. So what are your thoughts?
Well, there is another option with frost staff main bar + other destro staff/bow back bar which allows us to use 2 full strength enchantments, but this is tricky especially with ranged attacks (like Z'maja HA) so I personally wont use this setup

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Decisive is bad.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5171824

You would be better off just using infused and having weakening on your front bar, it is a unique debuff and lowers the damage the boss and the bosses mechanics put out. Seems like the best thing a tank could run.

commdt

Personally I dont like weakening, and it is now halved. Then maybe infused electro to somewhat compensate in case of lacking of concussion

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

commdt wrote: »

Personally I dont like weakening, and it is now halved. Then maybe infused electro to somewhat compensate in case of lacking of concussion

What do you not like about weakening? The full enchant lowers the boses damage by 15-30%, half that is still 8-15%, for the whole group, there is not much a tank can do that will save that much damage to the group.

commdt

I do not like extra defence in general. Why do one need it if he already dont die until he make some horrible mistake and get oneshoted. On the other hand extra damage always helps

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

commdt wrote: »

I do not like extra defence in general. Why do one need it if he already dont die until he make some horrible mistake and get oneshoted. On the other hand extra damage always helps

Because sometimes it is not a one hit? You wear ebon right? Same concept.

BejaProphet

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO how did you come up with those percentages for weakening. I get wild ranging results when I try to test it. If you have access to some solid data I’d love to know about it.

Madcap_Symphony

Most groups I run with the healer runs Weakening on their heal staff, which gives a bigger debuff over our 1-handers come the patch. I plan on using an Absorb Magica to help out with the extra magic used with keeping Blockade up.

Onefrkncrzypope

As main tank I'm running an weakening infused sword and board and back bar bow(yes bow) infused crusher and endless hail. Hail last longer and adds one more enchant tick

zvavi

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

As main tank I'm running an weakening infused sword and board and back bar bow(yes bow) infused crusher and endless hail. Hail last longer and adds one more enchant tick

Bow is a viable choice, especially for vFL hm. Not meta, but good

Krayl

what about poisons if you happen to be in a group where no one is running minor breach/fracture?

You can make a poison that does minor breach/fracture and gives you minor ward/resolve for 3.5 seconds every 10 secs. so it's far from 100% up time. But something? I guess.

Bow is cool but having another way to get magicka back is also pretty nice using a staff.

commdt

Krayl wrote: »

what about poisons if you happen to be in a group where no one is running minor breach/fracture?

You can make a poison that does minor breach/fracture and gives you minor ward/resolve for 3.5 seconds every 10 secs. so it's far from 100% up time. But something? I guess.

Bow is cool but having another way to get magicka back is also pretty nice using a staff.

Poisons were first that came to my mind, but look at their proc conditions:
20% chance on LA/HA or direct damage from weapon ability.

As a DD you do 1-2 valid attacks per second (la + skills) so their utime would be close to poison cooldown. But as a tank how often do you cause direct damage? Like once in 5 seconds, considering 20% chance it would take ~25 seconds to proc poison, so very low utime

Stx

If I were a nord I would use a decisive one hander with absorb stamina.

Since I'm imperial I think I will try an infused hardening one hander on the front bar and run crusher on the back of course.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

BejaProphet wrote: »

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO how did you come up with those percentages for weakening. I get wild ranging results when I try to test it. If you have access to some solid data I’d love to know about it.

I did just that, test it against how much damage the mobs do before and after. Are my numbers far from what you seen in your own testing?

mocap

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

unique debuff and lowers the damage the boss and the bosses mechanics put out.

So for example, my tank can't block cleave attack from that winter big lady boss of Scalecaller. Now if i weaken her i may have a chance, right?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

mocap wrote: »

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

unique debuff and lowers the damage the boss and the bosses mechanics put out.

So for example, my tank can't block cleave attack from that winter big lady boss of Scalecaller. Now if i weaken her i may have a chance, right?

Worth a shot.

BejaProphet

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO how did you come up with those percentages for weakening. I get wild ranging results when I try to test it. If you have access to some solid data I’d love to know about it.

I did just that, test it against how much damage the mobs do before and after. Are my numbers far from what you seen in your own testing?

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO it’s been too long to quote numbers but I found in a flame shalk like 40% reduction and I went into vet saint olms alone to test big hits and on him I remember being shocked how little it helped. Sure wish I hadn’t thrown away the sheet where I wrote the numbers. But it seemed like on the stronger creatures it helped progressively less.

commdt

BejaProphet wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO how did you come up with those percentages for weakening. I get wild ranging results when I try to test it. If you have access to some solid data I’d love to know about it.

I did just that, test it against how much damage the mobs do before and after. Are my numbers far from what you seen in your own testing?

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO it’s been too long to quote numbers but I found in a flame shalk like 40% reduction and I went into vet saint olms alone to test big hits and on him I remember being shocked how little it helped. Sure wish I hadn’t thrown away the sheet where I wrote the numbers. But it seemed like on the stronger creatures it helped progressively less.

Well, it is easy to explain. If target has 500 WD, you cut it by half, if it has 10000 WD, the difference is hardly noticable. Obviously the stronger the target hits the more WD it has (note that monsters has only WD, even if they deal magical damage)

BejaProphet

Yeah. I came to that conclusion. Problem is that weakening helps least where you need it to help the most. And now at half power I’m certainly not using it unless I find data showing me that I’m mistaken. But I had hoped to get that data as I truely wish it was worthwhile.

Sebar80

Decisive + draine stamina poison is on my mind. Weakening does very little in boss fights and can go completly without it. Helps with ulti generation and sustain. Also I light attack or heavy attack on my tanks almost all the time. There is very few fights you have to perma block. Even places like vmol hm only barrage has to be blocked trough

MartiniDaniels

mocap wrote: »

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

unique debuff and lowers the damage the boss and the bosses mechanics put out.

So for example, my tank can't block cleave attack from that winter big lady boss of Scalecaller. Now if i weaken her i may have a chance, right?

Cheese her, i.e. place her in narrow place and looking into the wall away from the group, and when she ready to cleave roll-dodge it to other side, shown in this video
https://youtu.be/Wbms6MrYht8?t=857

stevenyaub16_ESO

charged with frost for minor maim uptime I think. crusher on staff.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

stevenyaub16_ESO wrote: »

charged with frost for minor maim uptime I think. crusher on staff.

Heroic slash or thurvokyn has that covered.

But for kicks, an enchantment has a base 20% chance to proc a status effect, in this case chilled, with a one handed weapon, charged increases that chance to 42%(20%*110%). This mean on average, you will proc chilled about half the time, damage enchants have a 4 second cool down, so every other time you ought to be procing chilled. So half the time. When you can keep up minor maim 100% with heroic slash and almost 100% with thurvokyn, as there is no cool down on that set.

Sparr0w

I'll probs run stam poisons or fracture/breech poisons, light attack a lot on a tank anyway

Schattenfluegel

Mhmm i dont think that you Need to Change something, if youre running in an Raidgroup. Healers have the Crusher/Weakness Enchant on the Staffs and you dont overwrite this as a tank. But it run longer than.

stevenyaub16_ESO

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Heroic slash or thurvokyn has that covered.

But for kicks, an enchantment has a base 20% chance to proc a status effect, in this case chilled, with a one handed weapon, charged increases that chance to 42%(20%*110%). This mean on average, you will proc chilled about half the time, damage enchants have a 4 second cool down, so every other time you ought to be procing chilled. So half the time. When you can keep up minor maim 100% with heroic slash and almost 100% with thurvokyn, as there is no cool down on that set.

Oh yes, forgot that about heroic slash, I just take note of the ulti regen.

Hmmm, I'm really not sure what I will do this. Maybe just a mag/stam drain enchant.

Stx

Hardening?

xaraan

Personally I changed some of my setups to powered one-hander for healing done bonus (never saw a considerable difference in utli gen using decisive, defensive is ok but meh, precise, nirnhoned and sharpened useless to a tank really, Charged? does that do anything for a one hander? I didn't think it did - so that leaves only powered really as an ok option) and use poisons for whatever effect I'm after for a given fight. And just moved infused crusher to backbar.

I still have infused one hand weapons on some setups as well and just put weakening on those, but it's so low now I don't think it makes a huge difference and still throw poisons on most of the time.

Tasear

Schattenfluegel wrote: »

Mhmm i dont think that you Need to Change something, if youre running in an Raidgroup. Healers have the Crusher/Weakness Enchant on the Staffs and you dont overwrite this as a tank. But it run longer than.

Tanks usually have higher uptime of crushing now weakening is something to talk about.