Silks of the Sun and similar sets bad?

Ysbriel

I made a MagDk Specifically for BGs and im wearing 5 BSW 5 SOTS sometimes 2 Grothdar and sometimes 2 Valkyn, and i am not doing any damage at all unless i cast the ultimate grothar procs and still get my kills stolen, So is that overall setup bad or should all sets that state they add (x) amount of damage to (x) ability are to be avoided?

macsmooth

I always put sets like sun that give a flat 400 to a damage type down as a tanks dps set for PvP’ing as tanks run heavy most of the time so these sets as jewellery and weapons give a good boost to their damages but when I put these sets on a light or medium build I can get better damage and heals from using other sets that give big resources like bright or bone

casparian

No, SotS is a fine set. Gear can only do so much for you. You're running a full glass-cannon setup, meaning that unless you're making some other mistake (like using a Training staff or not running food), your gear is fit to give you very good damage. But there are many other pieces of the puzzle you'll need to put together in order to deal decent damage. In particular, you need solid mechanical knowledge of how to use your skills and how the skills that other players are likely to use function. You need situational awareness and experience from fighting all classes. And you need very solid timing to combo your skills in the right way.

All that said, you're never really going to get away from having your kills stolen as a DK. That's just the way the class is. Revel in the fact that you're enabling your team to win by your huge pressure and CC capabilities, and grumble at ZOS for introducing a very silly scoring system that is heavily weighted toward giving certain classes high scores.

Ysbriel

Well i know that its a team effort, i guess i should had stated the fact that every whip i cast only deals 2k damage even when i cast molten weapons. thats about the same damage as a light or heavy attack so i run out of magicka hitting with torched noodle

Moonsorrow

As a magDK you dont have a real execute and not fast enough burst, unless against some really squishy.. but that does not happen at high MMR bgs anymore. Everyone is really sturdy.

Leap is decent if you got your burst combo in order, but most are running with capped (or above) Spell resistances + other things like Major Evasion (nice mitigation against Leap too), Minor/Major Protections and good healing, so.. Also, whip can hit decently, but.. its dodgeable so it misses a lot too and its damage is nothing compared to what other specs can do.

magDK with its dots gets pressure on enemies, but at high MMR bgs most people you just tickle and you end up more as a tank/help with pressure and cc than a big score killer. The vids you might see are most often low MMR bgs and there can kill with anything since enemies are often not so experienced, no Impen and so on.

The current meta is hard and long to explain. But yeah, at high MMR magDK ends up mainly as a support/facetanker. Still, people bring 1 extra Warden instead of DK most often. For reasons.

If you wanna get more kills with DK right now, Stam DK way better. 2H execute feels so nice always after played magDK when can take out even the tanky targets that was not possible with magDK. Some might not agree. But thats personal experience and observations from me.

casparian

Ysbriel wrote: »

Well i know that its a team effort, i guess i should had stated the fact that every whip i cast only deals 2k damage even when i cast molten weapons. thats about the same damage as a light or heavy attack so i run out of magicka hitting with torched noodle

What quality are your weapons? IMO it's not even worth queuing up without gold weapons -- that makes a huge difference.

Iskiab

I have a DK alt at 50 I’m waiting on more mount speed to play more, so I’m no expert. Take what I say with a grain of salt because most of what I know is from playing against them.

The combo you should be looking for is the charge > use an ability mid air > breath thing > the abilities that do extra damage against knocked down targets. DKs don’t get an execute exactly, instead their damage against knocked down targets is really high and does execute level damage.

BSW is probably good for the burning effect, but I’d use blockade too if you use it. You might have more success with more burst sets like spinners. When I finally bring my magdk out I’m planning on using spinners plus bright throat. Spinners for pen and bright throat for sustain.

Ysbriel

casparian wrote: »

Ysbriel wrote: »

Well i know that its a team effort, i guess i should had stated the fact that every whip i cast only deals 2k damage even when i cast molten weapons. thats about the same damage as a light or heavy attack so i run out of magicka hitting with torched noodle

What quality are your weapons? IMO it's not even worth queuing up without gold weapons -- that makes a huge difference.

Weapons are gold, maybe i was expecting more damage out of it for some reason

Moonsorrow

Ysbriel wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

Ysbriel wrote: »

Well i know that its a team effort, i guess i should had stated the fact that every whip i cast only deals 2k damage even when i cast molten weapons. thats about the same damage as a light or heavy attack so i run out of magicka hitting with torched noodle

What quality are your weapons? IMO it's not even worth queuing up without gold weapons -- that makes a huge difference.

Weapons are gold, maybe i was expecting more damage out of it for some reason

Thats what i am saying, the reality on magDK right now, even with decent Spell Penetration is that people who use Major Evasion Minor/Major protectio and full Impen/Impregnable you will hit exactly like 2k hits, or even less. And most have big hots keeping them topped up faster than magDK can pressure them.

It just is right now that if you switch to stamDK, you will destroy the same people because stam weapon skill lines gives DK more burst and execute power that it lacks while on magicka oriented.

Asardes

IMO it's not the best option to run 2 damage sets. 1 Damage 1 Sustain gave much better results for me. For example you can combo either BSW or SotS with something like Amber Plasm, Lich, Bloodthorn, Bright Throat's Boast. The issue is that most competent players can mitigate the initial burst, and will come back at you, but if you go full damage, you won't have the resources to fight back. I actually run 2 sustain sets on my DK together with BSW and Skoria: Amber Plasm & Maelstrom resto back bar - that way I have enough resource sustain to have all damage glyphs on jewelry, healing & ultimate generation.

ESO_Nightingale

if we are talking about the elemental spell dmg sets, don't let anyone tell you Ysgamor's Birthright is a bad set. it isn't. it just has a lack of frost dps skills to work with and the element has a huge lack of support in general. once we get these, the set will be fine. IF we get these.

Moonsorrow

Asardes wrote: »

IMO it's not the best option to run 2 damage sets. 1 Damage 1 Sustain gave much better results for me. For example you can combo either BSW or SotS with something like Amber Plasm, Lich, Bloodthorn, Bright Throat's Boast. The issue is that most competent players can mitigate the initial burst, and will come back at you, but if you go full damage, you won't have the resources to fight back. I actually run 2 sustain sets on my DK together with BSW and Skoria: Amber Plasm & Maelstrom resto back bar - that way I have enough resource sustain to have all damage glyphs on jewelry, healing & ultimate generation.

Think his trouble is (as is for mdk in general, especially at high mmr battlegrounds) that going into fight, fighting enemies but not getting finishes (aka kills), since others with more damage come and finishes them off when he ends up on long fights, as is the known trouble for mdk. Even ZOS said in their legendary response to mdks wanting execute/more burst that dk is supposed to wait for others to come help with the kill since dk is supposed to be the "tank".

Yes, sustain helps in long fights of course, but what if the enemies also have good sustain, BUT better burst damage AND executes, stamden as an example.. so your solution is that have more sustain, so mdk`s already low damage is even more low. As said, you end up tanking damage like that but are not getting kills against others who have good stam sustain and experienced. Stam bleed setups have way more pressure than mdk with flame dots, sad but true reality. Go as mdk against good magplar also, you will only tickle them.

MagDK is fine at lower mmr battlegrounds when solo queue and hope to be lucky to get squishy enough and not so experienced opponents, but there is a reason why currently pretty much the most popular team formation for bg if made by experienced teams is 2 x warden + 1 sorc +1 templar.

While things like Wings can be nice at Cyrodiil against snipers and zergling pew-pew spam, at high mmr fights most damage is aoe anyways, so warden shines there with its Shalks/DB/ST/Permafrost minitrain style there supported with a healer and a execute/negate sorc.

mDK right now can be fun at open world Cyro, if you end up with the right kind of enemies.. but most mdks just going more and more tanky, since they see not having enough damage to be efficient enough on true damage setup. Funny thing is often when see people changing from mdk to something else like stamblade or stamden is the "omg i can actually kill people now, this is so easy compared to dk lol" type of chat.

Well, mdk can be really good at surviving, there is that.. but not at killing blows, unless lucky match up.

Ysbriel

This really sucks to know cause i had rolled my DK back into Stam to stank with him for a while and decided to give mag another shot, should had just taken off the tanking build skills and made it a Stam DD the

Hotdog_23

MDK is very frustrating to play at higher MMR in BG's. We really need a execute skill and a spammable long range class damaging skill to help round us out in higher MMR BG's.

BxBourne

I used to have the same frustrations but I managed to create a build that allows me to kill at will. If you build your magdk right you can complete the kill. Skills of the sun is one set I use the other is a defensive set and Iam having fun with it.. I got all types of measures to ruin someone's day. Pro tip- use bloodthirsty trait on your jewelry you will finish players off faster and it makes all your abilities hit harder when in execute range.. Gold weapons a must.

dazee

Yeah the scoring system which only awards kill credit to the one who scored the killing blow... lets just say a 10 year old could design a better scoring system.

jaws343

I used to run SotS on my mDK. But I realized that DK works a bit better with max Mag. No I run Bright Throat and Spinners with 1 Domi and 1 Illambris for max stats. The Spinners Pen plus the sustain from Bright Throat is fantastic, and it allows you to run all spell damage enchants on your jewelry. And DKs benefit from a tanky skill line. So you can make up for the lack of a defensive set by running Wings and Annulment. Plus, the number of heals a DK has available makes it easier to forgo defensive sets. I sit at around 41K mag and 2.5K spell damage and it wrecks people. The issue with a set like SotS is that it doesn't buff your healing.

JumpmanLane

jaws343 wrote: »

I used to run SotS on my mDK. But I realized that DK works a bit better with max Mag. No I run Bright Throat and Spinners with 1 Domi and 1 Illambris for max stats. The Spinners Pen plus the sustain from Bright Throat is fantastic, and it allows you to run all spell damage enchants on your jewelry. And DKs benefit from a tanky skill line. So you can make up for the lack of a defensive set by running Wings and Annulment. Plus, the number of heals a DK has available makes it easier to forgo defensive sets. I sit at around 41K mag and 2.5K spell damage and it wrecks people. The issue with a set like SotS is that it doesn't buff your healing.

This ^. No cp you’re gonna need pen. Bright Throats is awesome for sustain AND damage. Spinner’s will give you killer damage due to the pen.

Sets like Sun and axiom are awesome when you have a ton of cp. I prefer axiom over Sun though because Sun does nothing for Fossilize, cauterize, and coagulating.

MagDk has no execute so get used to having your kills stolen, BUT you can definitely get kills if you time it right. Dots minus any thaumaturge...why no cp sucks.

Personally I’d run Julianos spinners, 1 domihaus 1kena or even 2kena, not care if died (heavy Julianos if I cared) and just try to mop fools. Screw sustain lol. There’s lulls in fights, enough time to pop a pot or even try Psijic deep thoughts. Trying to build a well rounded (damage, sustain, survivability) build without cp is a headache.