The Dual Wield Dilemma, or Why One-Handers Should be Revisited

ffyre

Fair Warning: this is effectively a "this isn't fair post" - deal with it.

Normally I keep my opinions to myself - and I'm sure this has been (at least partially) discussed in some of the previous posts about DW enchants - but I figure the more voices the better and I want to get a few of my thoughts into the world. I've lurked here for a long time, but this is my first post. Hello everyone!

Anyway, we're all familiar with the changes to the one-handed weapons/armor with regard to enchantments (and for those of you who aren't - they're halved!) but this isn't so much a focus on that change and why I bElIeVe It ShOuLd ChAnGe; it's a discussion of the downstream impacts of such a change and what should be looked at to make the change not suck as bad as it does right now.

Let's take a look at "meta" setups:

Magicka

• Front bar: Stave
• Back bar: Stave

Tank

• Front bar: Sword and Shield
• Back bar: Stave (or Sword and Shield)

Stamina (2H)

• Front bar: 2H Weapon
• Back bar: Bow

Stamina (DW)

• Front bar: 2 daggers
• Back bar: Bow

"Why is this guy telling me things I already know," you ask. To make a point. Let me get there.

Because staves and 2H weapons count as 2-piece set bonuses, magicka and 2H stam builds are only required to obtain 2 weapons - one for the front bar and one for the back bar. Meanwhile, any tank is required to either obtain 3 (sword, shield, stave) or 4 (2 swords, 2 shields) and any DW stam is required to obtain 3 (2 daggers and a bow) because the one-handed weapons and armor count only as 1-piece set bonuses.

Forgetting the painstaking RNG required to get the right piece per set twice, let's consider the impact of this on other facets of the game - like how these one-handed weapons are half potency but require the same amount of mats to upgrade and transmute crystals to change traits.

Extrapolating that for a second, this means any 2H stam player upgrading a new set only needs enough materials to add 2 enchantments and upgrade 2 weapons - and, if off-trait, only needs 100 transmute crystals to switch the traits for both bars.

At the same time, a DW stam player upgrading a new set needs enough materials to add 3 enchantments, upgrade 3 weapons - and, if off-trait, need 150 of the 200 max held transmute crystals to switch the traits for both bars. For a tank running double sword and board - go ahead and add another enchantment, more gold mats, and more transmutes.

That all being said, because of the change to one-hand enchantments, I propose a change to also halve any upgrade materials for one-hand weapons. If enchantment halving is necessary for balancing dps across playstyles, that's totally fine and dandy - just don't further punish those playstyles with additional in-game cost, especially considering meta-chasers need transmute crystals every patch but can only hold 200 at a time.

Thank you for attending my TED talk. Post your opinion and let me know if I'm an idiot (which I may or may not be, regardless of this post)!

KhajiitFelix

Nope, everything is fair.

El_Borracho

So 2H instead of dual-wield. Problem solved.

PriorityBalle

Nothing unfair here lol xD I'm a DW / bow user.
You can hold endless transmutation geode's on your characters so the 200/200 transmutation limit is for pea brains.
You forgot to mention that spell pots per stack cost double that of tri-stat or weapon pots
If you want specific gear that isn't craftable or BoE, you'll have to farm it buddy, just like everyone else.
And yes, the dungeon looting is stupidly bad for anyone farming any gear because you might just be that unlucky and never achieve the dagger / inferno staff that you're farming for, i'd gladly cheer naked on the top of Mt. Everest the day they make the undaunted keys into a currency where i can trade 100 keys for ANY 1 piece gear of my own choosing within the dungeons ofc. #FreeTheLoot

brandonv516

At least trials give you both DW weapons or 1H & shield. So there's that.

ffyre

PriorityBalle wrote: »

You can hold endless transmutation geode's on your characters so the 200/200 transmutation limit is for pea brains.

Sure, you can hold a million transmute geodes on your person, but it's still a hassle to have a 200 limit. Regardless, though, the transmute limit isn't the reason I bring this up.

I just think it's silly that a single dagger count as 1-piece for enchantments, RNG, and set bonus, but count as a 2-piece as far as upgrade mats go.

ffyre

brandonv516 wrote: »

At least trials give you both DW weapons or 1H & shield. So there's that.

That's not true. If you get a dagger, you get one dagger. Until you get a second (or an axe, or a sword), you have one weapon for the set.

Raammzzaa

Agreed. No problem with the change to enchantments, but the mats required to upgrade 1H weapons and shields should also be halved to keep everything equal.

Arunei

El_Borracho wrote: »

So 2H instead of dual-wield. Problem solved.

Except it's a completely different play style from DW? Why should anyone have to completely change their play style just to get the full benefit from full enchants?

PriorityBalle wrote: »

And yes, the dungeon looting is stupidly bad for anyone farming any gear because you might just be that unlucky and never achieve the dagger / inferno staff that you're farming for, i'd gladly cheer naked on the top of Mt. Everest the day they make the undaunted keys into a currency where i can trade 100 keys for ANY 1 piece gear of my own choosing within the dungeons ofc. #FreeTheLoot

This would solve so many problems, but ZOS can't seem to get away from their obsession with RNG.

RogueShark

ffyre wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

At least trials give you both DW weapons or 1H & shield. So there's that.

That's not true. If you get a dagger, you get one dagger. Until you get a second (or an axe, or a sword), you have one weapon for the set.

Think they were referring to like... Asylum weapons and such. You get two 1h weapons at a time. Or the 1h/shield.

Monsieur

This all started when ZOS (in my opinion) took the wrong path with the 2H set changes.

What they should have done (in my opinion) was introduce a “strap” armour item that would fit in the off hand for 2H users, this then could have been enchanted and counted as the second set piece.

What they did instead, ended up being problematic when they changed how infused worked and caused the PvP enchant mess we saw last patch.

But I guess it’s easier to hit stuff with the nerf bat when it all goes wrong.

haelene

Nvm

haelene

Monsieur wrote: »

This all started when ZOS (in my opinion) took the wrong path with the 2H set changes.

What they should have done (in my opinion) was introduce a “strap” armour item that would fit in the off hand for 2H users, this then could have been enchanted and counted as the second set piece.

What they did instead, ended up being problematic when they changed how infused worked and caused the PvP enchant mess we saw last patch.

But I guess it’s easier to hit stuff with the nerf bat when it all goes wrong.

I saw your post right after I made mine. I think this whole be a great solution! A strap for two handed, a quiver for bow, and maybe a bag or glove or whatever for magic. That way dual weilding doesn't get extra effects but it also doesn't cost more overall. Everyone is required to get and upgrade four pieces.

ffyre

haelene wrote: »

Nvm

I like the idea of farming/crafting one-handed items as sets, but unfortunately I'm not sure it's very viable if they're automatically tied to each other that way (especially when upgrading) - because someone may want 2 daggers, or a dagger and an axe (although after the bleed nerf.... haha), etc. etc. etc.

But how would halving one-hand upgrade materials/transmutes be at the expense of other players? I'm not following that part.

EDIT: Sorry - your edit went through while I was in the window.