bg current balance by my experience

Noctus

if u wanna be effective in bg u stack up on defensive stats and abilities otherwise u have no chance. glasscannons are useless. this is actually a problem. people would pvp more if they could be successfull with their pve builds. while healers and tanks have no problem jumping into pvp dps which are probably more than 50 % of the eso population will need to adapt and wear heavy armor for example. it just shows that the balance goes towards heal and tanks which can make the fights rly painfull at times. having to fight for a minute just for the teammates of that guy ur fighting show up to help him can be a very bad experience. there are games out there that *** up that balance and went the same route a good example would be the game dc universe online.

THIS IS NOT A DESIREABLE OUTCOME. i hope the devs take care of balancing this general more effectivity of dps sets and glasscannon builds would be nice and help more ppl to get into pvp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz-48ouJhnQ&t=259s

lokulin

I dunno, I use my PvE build in BGs and am in the winning team about 33% of the time. Offensive only skills. Sometimes I am the top scoring player, sometimes middle, sometimes the bottom. I am not a particularly skillful PvP player and only do a couple of BGs a week. It seems to me like I am being ranked correctly with other players at around the same level as me. Perhaps it is less balanced for the bottom or top tier players. FYI I am currently playing an argonian stam sorc. On that note, stamina definitely seems easier to play than magicka in BGs imho, especially since the magicka shield nerf.

StarOfElyon

I wear 5 light pieces so no one has to worry about that with me. I get two and three shotted all the time. And forget about AOE. Woo boy.

Thogard

You can run glass cannon sets with a minimum amount of defense (ie 2 dmg sets and bloodspawn) once you practice LoS and active defense strategies

Girl_Number8

If you build a glasscannon and not a balanced thought out build for your playstyle, then yes you are going to be fodder. It has nothing to do with tankys, just a lack of understanding in PvP theory crafting. You want to go all in damage being squishy is the price you pay.

Noctus

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

If you build a glasscannon and not a balanced thought out build for your playstyle, then yes you are going to be fodder. It has nothing to do with tankys, just a lack of understanding in PvP theory crafting. You want to go all in damage being squishy is the price you pay.

yeh but if u pay the price you should get something in return no ? like beeing able to 2 or 3 shot a healer while beeing squishy urself ? that isnt the case . it would be a nice experiment to see if pvp would be more appealing for people on the PTS after increasing the dmg output

i tell u 100 % chance that more ppl will enjoy pvp when the sustain tank heal builds are less effective

notyuu

You claim pve glass cannon builds are useless
I run Bgs on my pve glass cannon build, complete with gear [meaning 0 crit resist], the only change i make is swapping out carve for executioner and more often than not I/we win..sometimes by a huge margin despite being average as ***
So noctus given that experience [and the fact that a fair few others can say the same] I'm pretty sure the problem isn't as big as you make it out to be...if it exists at all

mairwen85

notyuu wrote: »

You claim pve glass cannon builds are useless
I run Bgs on my pve glass cannon build, complete with gear [meaning 0 crit resist], the only change i make is swapping out carve for executioner and more often than not I/we win..sometimes by a huge margin despite being average as ***
So noctus given that experience [and the fact that a fair few others can say the same] I'm pretty sure the problem isn't as big as you make it out to be...if it exists at all

pebkac --

We used to call those PICNIC issues (problem in chair not in computer).

Noctus

notyuu wrote: »

You claim pve glass cannon builds are useless
I run Bgs on my pve glass cannon build, complete with gear [meaning 0 crit resist], the only change i make is swapping out carve for executioner and more often than not I/we win..sometimes by a huge margin despite being average as ***
So noctus given that experience [and the fact that a fair few others can say the same] I'm pretty sure the problem isn't as big as you make it out to be...if it exists at all

look i definately dont have a problem in defeating people in pvp. im just stating the obvious and what might be healthy for the community. this is not a nerf this or that becouse it defeated me thread or anything. why would i do that ?

we have a tank meta (even alcast talked about it in the past) thats it and the only people u can burst down with ease are casual pve players joining pvp for the daily exp.

teladoy

Noctus wrote: »

people would pvp more if they could be successfull with their pve builds. while healers and tanks have no problem jumping into pvp dps which are probably more than 50 % of the eso population will need to adapt and wear heavy armor for example. it just shows that the balance goes towards heal and tanks which can make the fights rly painfull at times. having to fight for a minute just for the teammates of that guy ur fighting show up to help him can be a very bad experience.

Nothing more far away from reality. I play a lot of bgs and I tried many builds for many classes and not everything works.

Pve builds can do it "well" in bgs but they are not very successful and this has nothing to be with if they are healers, DD or tanks.

Saying that I think you still need a lot to learn to be able to realize many things that you can only get losing, adapting, learning, adjusting to you and winning.

That can only be achieved through experience, money and time.

Mayrael

OP is right. Just because "you were successful with your PvE glass canon build" in BG it doesn't mean OP is wrong. You are low on MMR probably that's why you were successful, stand against any experienced player and he will tear you apart without even slowing down.

Everyone here is acting like devils advocate. Yes it's possible to play DD in BGs but why?
The reason behind BGs being dominated by tanky/healer meta is simple: there is just one match type that requires killing to win - Death Match. Everything else is won by doing objectives.

Undefwun

Well, doesn't it make sense that you need different tools for different jobs?

Ppl change sets and skill during trials and arenas depending on enemies, change their cp depending on what trial.

Why is it so outlandish to have a pvp build? Things like dressing room, 1 click, ready! Especially for BGs, because CP doesn't matter. My StamDK can slip from a vet trial right into a BG, no worries. The only toon that happens to run heavy though.

Other than that I have 1 in medium divines (doesn't even slot a heal), 2 in medium impen, 1 in light impen (about to be 2 in light)..

BGs can be rough, you gotta do a lot of dying before you do some winning and each toon is different. I am usually happy with my performance on my stam sorc, but my newish stamplar and I are not quite friends yet.

My class cannon in 7 medium divines, taking out a healer who should have had a PvP build on in 1.3s

Noctus

Mayrael wrote: »

OP is right. Just because "you were successful with your PvE glass canon build" in BG it doesn't mean OP is wrong. You are low on MMR probably that's why you were successful, stand against any experienced player and he will tear you apart without even slowing down.

i dont play that much anymore but im still around rank 60 in bg deathmatch those guys must play bg only once a day or smthing

Hamrb

team play is what wins in bgs. a team with a healer, that stays together, usually going to own. strong builds on a team like that also factor in. but if they work as a unit, its almost always an easy win.

also. i run julianos, willpower, and random monster helms in bgs. 5-1-1. 5 light armor. or the same on stam but with agility and hundings. ive really never bothered going full meta. and i kill more than i am killed in bgs and cyrodil. by a comfortable margin. so sometimes its just keeping yourself alive and killing your enemy fast enough.

ya, if i run into a real pvper with elite gear/cp/skill rotation, im gonna lose or run away. but i dont wear heavy armor and i feel completely useful in pvp.

edit: i forgot to mention those builds usually run maelstrom/vdsa/blackrose/asylum weapons as well.

Noctus

teladoy wrote: »

Nothing more far away from reality. I play a lot of bgs and I tried many builds for many classes and not everything works.

Pve builds can do it "well" in bgs but they are not very successful and this has nothing to be with if they are healers, DD or tanks.

Saying that I think you still need a lot to learn to be able to realize many things that you can only get losing, adapting, learning, adjusting to you and winning.

That can only be achieved through experience, money and time.

im curious what rank are u in bg ?

BrokenString

Pvp is a different game mode, stop whining.

Git gud or die (a lot) trying

Tan9oSuccka

Are people finally seeing how broken shields were?

killimandrosb16_ESO

Just an observation from playing a LOT of BG's in NA lately, on my fresh DK (cp 175) in "beginner" gear; Theres a LOT of bow only users. So many I have to slot chicken wings on my stamDK. I see DK's with bow, templars with bow, using bow skills weaving LA's in between as the primary offensive ability, and who even spam draining shots at point blank. I know from streams the higher mmr brackets have less, but still. Meeting a half competent player with only bow skills, will make you die. Maybe something to consider. I am not very skilled, but the KB's I get, are on these players. When I meet someone NOT with a bow, I struggle a lot.
Then, if you end up in a team with one or two of these players, youre shafted. BG's IS a team effort, and unless you have godly skills, or the other two teams also consist of bow players searching high grounds to get a killtag, you wont achieve anything. The teams where 3-4 run together wins. They also get the most kills, normally.
In EU the story is a bit different. Maybe because im in the higher mmr brackets there, but theres far between the Robin Hoods there, and yes, the meta is tanky.

@Tan9oSuccka I dont really know about that. Shields nowadays on magsorcs works very well when used by good players. The difference is more the damage burst is considerably lower, so the times where a good magsorc or magblade could make pasta bolognaise out of the tincans in HA, they will now struggle a lot, and have to equip HA themself. If this is the best solution I doubt a lot. Now the matches consist of slugs creeping towards each other dealing wet noodle slaps. I dont enjoy so much the HA meta at all.

Noctus

BrokenString wrote: »

Pvp is a different game mode, stop whining.

Git gud or die (a lot) trying

i hate this git gud *** ppl do. i made this thread not to ask advice from anyone i suggested making the pvp better especially for ppl that just get started and break the meta we are in

Noctus

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

. Maybe because im in the higher mmr brackets there, but theres far between the Robin Hoods there, and yes, the meta is tanky.

im also in EU u can look me up in the top 100 i should be around 50 - 60. the meta is absolutely tanky

killimandrosb16_ESO

Noctus wrote: »

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

. Maybe because im in the higher mmr brackets there, but theres far between the Robin Hoods there, and yes, the meta is tanky.

im also in EU u can look me up in the top 100 i should be around 50 - 60. the meta is absolutely tanky

yes and we agree on the problem I believe. Especially in the higher mmr brackets, tanky is too rewarding. My point was to those in the lower brackets, or the ones very casually just getting their BG daily done, its a good idea to teamplay and to maybe approach it in a pvp way for more enjoyment and less frustration when being burst. Unless youre Thogard ofc

Noctus

bump

r34lian

Wearwolf XD

CatchMeTrolling

If you can’t play with glass setups then yeah they’re useless. Even more useless if it’s not tailored to pvp.

Noctus

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

If you can’t play with glass setups then yeah they’re useless. Even more useless if it’s not tailored to pvp.

got nothing to do with if u can or cant. the only people u gonna kill with a glasscannon setup are inexperienced pve players. thats bad balancing

Noctus

GO TO 11:11. ofcourse hes beeing to extreme here with what he says i personally can handle like 3 inexperienced but i know some can handle 4 or more with the right tank builds. it just takes the skill away. timed dodges blocking in the right moment reactions and reflexes just dont matter with certain builds. like some describes "combat feels llike hitting each other with wet noodles". its nice when u can handle multiple people at once with ur skill but what i see is people just standing there healing shielding the whole fight and chipping away the health of his opponents no skills winning by a fcked up unbalanced build.
what gets rly nice is when i run that sort of build and meet someone else who runs it in a 1 vs 1. noone goes down and we have to wait untill our teammates finally help us.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE4-Twcxe68

tunepunk

I've tried tanky builds in BG's but I die just as quick as my glass cannon. Maybe it's due to my play style... I rarely use block at all, and mostly prefer to use range or roll dodge for defence.

At range i feel i have more control of the battle field, and can see where people are. In Melee range i more often often get swarmed, and when you do It doesn't matter how much HP, resists and heals you have... you gonna die anyway, if you can't get out in time.

On my glass cannon I usually have more kills than deaths.
On my tanky setup, i usually have more deaths than kills.

I feel mobility and overview far outweighs tanky gear. But that's just my playstyle and what i'm comfortable with. I just find it more effective to avoid damage than mitigate it.

Noctus

tunepunk wrote: »

I've tried tanky builds in BG's but I die just as quick as my glass cannon. Maybe it's due to my play style... I rarely use block at all, and mostly prefer to use range or roll dodge for defence.

At range i feel i have more control of the battle field, and can see where people are. In Melee range i more often often get swarmed, and when you do It doesn't matter how much HP, resists and heals you have... you gonna die anyway, if you can't get out in time.

On my glass cannon I usually have more kills than deaths.
On my tanky setup, i usually have more deaths than kills.

I feel mobility and overview far outweighs tanky gear. But that's just my playstyle and what i'm comfortable with. I just find it more effective to avoid damage than mitigate it.

here a helping hand. bare in mind this is just heavy armor meta i searched in google but actually even the abilities for defense are too much of a factor. u have to be aware that healing, resource regeneration and dmg mitigation go hand in hand.
https://www.google.de/search?ei=i4pmXL3vD4zfwAKKhI6gAQ&q=eso+heavy+armor+meta&oq=eso+heavy+armor+meta&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30.153783.159137..159285...0.0..0.95.2216.32......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i67j0j0i10j0i131j0i131i67j0i19._YTzEtkqViQ

siddique

I am the definition of a glass cannon. I do just fine in bgs. I stood 5th last week.

Emmagoldman

I disagree it’s a tank meta, at least compared to when it was cp. I think what makes good players “ tanky”is good game play. Being able to los, break snares, keep up heals and understand the mechanics of their class and others. For example, let rally run longer for a bigger heal, or pop vigor before dodge rolling to get 1 or 2 ticks of heals without damage and rally after. You can also see the experience with snipe, which at a lower mmr is a problem, while laughable with more experienced players.

Group play is also different. People position, heal each other if the class allows or having a premade with a healer. Better players don’t overextend as much. All of that leads to people living longer. Good players and higher mmrs aren’t going to be dunked on and can leave with 28 kills with 1 or 3 deaths. I think you know you are in a high mmr when 4 to 6 kills is doing good. Meanwhile, especially when on a low mmr, people fail even to group up.

Bgs favor high sustain, expedition and burst. For this reason you will see a lot of medium/light armor builds. I know someone mentioned alcast, but fengrush discusses it being medium. Battle of the streamers! Besides them, Proc sets are slightly more valuable in nocp then cp because you can invest more into regen and have the set proc for dmg. Cp, is about pumping huge wpn dmg because the regen is generated through cp and cp modifiers. so you can go heavy fury for example. Without a second regen set, you’d be heavy weaving a lot for sustain.

Morgul667

I feel the opposite, I took a break for a while and came back and find that everybody is packing more damages now than few months ago.

My solution against players, is to kill them before they have a chance to land their combos, if I dont have a pocket healer I will die the second they land their combo even if I run a heavy armor build

I am not where I used to be months ago so Im lower MMR but I really feel the meta is more about doing damages now that what it was months ago