collecting skillpoints again and again

kathandira

idk wrote: »

I have my character raid ready in a few days and probably before they do.

Past 2 characters were day 1 of level 50, raid ready lol.

The way I level is through Maelstrom Arena, and Random Dungeons, with maybe a Battle Ground or 2. This is plenty of skill points combined with those I get from leveling. Usually upwards of 65-80. Which is generally enough to have a great start. If I need more later for any reason, I just do a little questing, or do a zone of skyshards or two. Nothing really time consuming, and it also helps level up skill lines that I need to finish off.

idk

kathandira wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I have my character raid ready in a few days and probably before they do.

Past 2 characters were day 1 of level 50, raid ready lol.

The way I level is through Maelstrom Arena, and Random Dungeons, with maybe a Battle Ground or 2. This is plenty of skill points combined with those I get from leveling. Usually upwards of 65-80. Which is generally enough to have a great start. If I need more later for any reason, I just do a little questing, or do a zone of skyshards or two. Nothing really time consuming, and it also helps level up skill lines that I need to finish off.

I seriously doubt 65 SP is raid ready in a true sense as passives alone take up a lions share of that. 3 class lines and one weapon line and one armor line alone is 50 SP. Potion passive, 10 skills and 2 ults is 27 skill points.

Granted, one can probably pass up a class passive here and there but much would have to be more skipped to come within 65 points. I have not let someone run in a raid because they did not have a worthy ultimate leveled yet since they did a speed leveling. Granted, one can be carried but when it is a speed run for leaderboard that is not the way to go.

DTStormfox

Noctus wrote: »

who do i need to sacrifice to which deadra to not do this when i start a new character. its just not fun repeating something that lost its purpose after the first time (skyshards). skyshards were there to let a player explore the world now that ive done that why revisit a place ive been several times before. its just a senseless time sink that feels like work and not playing a game.

The shortest and easiest answer to your questions is: Because it's an MMO-RPG. A genre that inherently has time-consuming grinds to keep players in the game for as long as possible and lure them into buying shortcuts with real money.

Taleof2Cities

Except that you don’t have to farm skyshards to get skill points on a new character.

There are other ways to gather skill points.

Don’t want to do it again on another character for the 15th time? Don’t make that 15th character. Pretty simple really ...

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Personally , I just play the one character. I tried making alts but it felt... W

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Except that you don’t have to farm skyshards to get skill points on a new character.

There are other ways to gather skill points.

Don’t want to do it again on another character for the 15th time? Don’t make that 15th character. Pretty simple really ...

This is why I only run one character.

kathandira

idk wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I have my character raid ready in a few days and probably before they do.

Past 2 characters were day 1 of level 50, raid ready lol.

The way I level is through Maelstrom Arena, and Random Dungeons, with maybe a Battle Ground or 2. This is plenty of skill points combined with those I get from leveling. Usually upwards of 65-80. Which is generally enough to have a great start. If I need more later for any reason, I just do a little questing, or do a zone of skyshards or two. Nothing really time consuming, and it also helps level up skill lines that I need to finish off.

I seriously doubt 65 SP is raid ready in a true sense as passives alone take up a lions share of that. 3 class lines and one weapon line and one armor line alone is 50 SP. Potion passive, 10 skills and 2 ults is 27 skill points.

Granted, one can probably pass up a class passive here and there but much would have to be more skipped to come within 65 points. I have not let someone run in a raid because they did not have a worthy ultimate leveled yet since they did a speed leveling. Granted, one can be carried but when it is a speed run for leaderboard that is not the way to go.

Enough to do a Normal with 20k DPS. I did say it was day one of 50 after all = )

But that is the point, you can be plenty strong with 65-80 skill points to do all but Vet Trials.

See below for a 70 Skill Point build. Again, not going into Vet Trials with this, but it is more than enough for Normal Trials.

http://eso-skills.com/skill?z=AD7DANIv@DIORv_P%BMcOAJ@DQmu9SK&p=90629072908290929192501350235033926292729282929201620172018201920197101310221032104210522132214221512162217130513151307332523262&a=541000&c=Fizzlepop&b=Low_Skill_Points&j=t&q=151&w=11&m=2

Merlin13KAGL

Not even remotely a new topic. Still not remotely necessary.

It's a one-and-done proposition with character leveling, because once you've achieved these things, it's not like you have to repeat it again on the same character.

It's part of the legwork towards a specific build and can casually be done in ~100 hours.

You'll spend more than 100 hours outfitting gear on an alt in most cases.

Points from leveling. Points from 4-man quests. Points from Group Dungeon events. Points from several main quest/guild quest/zone quest quick and easy turn-ins. Points from PvP ranks.

In the end, you can have well more than enough points to do anything you want in the game without having touched a single shard after the tutorial one.

Malfious1986

To be fair this is why I've never made alts, I just made a character and stuck with them day one and never ever made an alt because I would rather focus on progressing the one dude with my very limited free time.

kathandira

Malfious1986 wrote: »

To be fair this is why I've never made alts, I just made a character and stuck with them day one and never ever made an alt because I would rather focus on progressing the one dude with my very limited free time.

I have too much free time, lol. As a Guild Officer, I like to be able to answer questions and help people with builds, so I have 7 characters.

Fata1moose

This is why I'm highly methodical in creating new characters.

Right now I only have 4 characters, only 3 of which I actually play the fourth is a warden that I'm leveling up speed and stamina on the mount before playing. That seems like an absolute necessity as mounts are needlessly slow to begin with. I don't repeat classes, nor races. I'll only have one of each class and one of each race. At the moment I have a Nord DK, Bosmer NB, High Elf PetSorc and a Dark Elf Warden. I'll be adding a Breton Necromancer with the next chapter. I'll probably end up playing the Necromancer before the Warden as I just created and leveled up the Sorcerer and don't feel like getting skill points on another character anytime soon. I can't imagine the repetitiveness of leveling so many characters for those that have max on the two mega servers.

Greg11jkalfa

Skyshards aren't account wide for the same reason Lorebooks aren't, and that's simply because it's extra incentive to explore and passively level. You get a small bump of XP every time you discover a location, kill a mob, complete delve quests, etc. And besides, it's more immersive. Yes, I already know, the CP system isn't very immersive, but the damage has already been done with it. I 100% agree that it would be a nice feature, but at the same time, players would be 400x less likely to go explore the world. I say 400x because I don't know the exact number of Skyshards, but you get the idea.

srfrogg23

So, my main has well over 300 skill points. My other characters basically end up with what they get just while doing the content that they are leveling through, which seems to end up being around 80 to 90.

My alts all have full builds and can participate in the game just fine without any special shard or book "farming" added to the equation.

The difference here being that my main is a maxed out crafter and makes the overwhelming majority of the gold on my account.

Account bound skyshards would be pretty imbalanced because of things like the crafting writs and sale of stolen goods across multiple characters per day, per account.

The only way to keep those rewards fair is to make sure people have to take the time to collect enough skill points to make the most use of those money making skill lines.

mayasunrising

I just see this as part of normal character development, and I personally enjoy putting the time into each of my characters. That amount of time is also dependent on the character; who they are, their personalities etc.

My main for example is a revenge fueled Altmer bent on nothing short of subjugating all of Summerset (and beyond), so for her, acquisition of power - to that end - has become an obsession. Thus, from a meta standpoint, it made sense for her to acquire every skyshard and skill point. And she has. And has used every means possible - including manipulating AD into opening a scroll gate on her behalf - as she lay stealthed by said gate waiting to grab her last skyshard (That was and always will be one of my favorite in-game moments!).

Varda on the verge of being the most powerful Altmer in Tamriel

On the other hand, Iona, my crafter is casual about her knowledge building. She prefers being in front of a forge, or patiently crafting a fine bow. So she's acquired those necessary skills, and could care less about fighting skills and such. She keeps mainly to the cities and towns of Tamriel. If she needs to venture our for materials and happens to learn a bit more about using a blade, so be it. If not, that's okay to.

I guess as a gamer choosing a persistent world MMORPG, I go in with an understanding that I will be playing that game for years, and that character development takes a long time. I want my characters reaching max levels to be a kind of penultimate moment, and I often get bored when games don't offer that experience. Case in point, I was pretty disappointed when skills started increases at warp speed. It's poop. I'm also an old school pen and paper nerd girl, so I guess I'm just used to prolonged campaigns and long-term character development. I find it relaxing and enjoyable.

I just don't get the "easy button." mentality I guess. I mean, I know one of the arguments is that many players don't have the time to grind, or are uber casual. That's alright - everyone's lives are different - but maybe pick a game that offers character development at pace that matches your lifestyle? Or hire someone to do the work for you? Shoot, I'd run skyshards for folks for a monthly crown allotment. lol

Gilvoth

give option to choose to allow or decline once you hit level 50 on a new character.

everything on your account will be account wide. [if you choose to]
all skyshards
all accomplishments.
all mount unlocks and speeds.
all skill points.
everything

srfrogg23

Gilvoth wrote: »

give option to choose to allow or decline once you hit level 50 on a new character.

everything on your account will be account wide. [if you choose to]
all skyshards
all accomplishments.
all mount unlocks and speeds.
all skill points.
everything

Heh, it would be like making every character a PTS character on the live server...

Edziu

VaranisArano wrote: »

BringerOfOmens wrote: »

Wouldn't it be nice to have an OPTION at character creation such as:

1. Use account-wide skill points
2. Use account-wide achievements
3. Use account-wide quest journal

Many Alt-o-holics would rejoice at the option. The OPTION gives those who want to re-grind those things on other toons for role play or perhaps their personal enjoyment could do so where players who find other enjoyment in the game could choose that OPTION to do the lesser enjoyable things once and spend their time doing things in the game they enjoy more.

The key here is allowing players to do in the game what they find enjoyable. People tend to spend more time in enjoyable activities.

I would love to see the OPTION at the character level. My 2 cents worth.

Your OPTION means that players who are Alt-o-holics would be able to spend less time in game overall even if their time in game were more enjoyable.

If there's one thing we can take away from ZOS adding more and more grinds to ESO designed to keep players playing longer, we can tell that player enjoyment at the expense of less time in game is not their end goal. Instead, they wwant players playing longer even if they are less happy - in part because a robust population in game is good for an MMO and also because players who are in-game are more likely to spend money on ongoing content.

In short, over the entire game population, your OPTION makes ZOS less $$$. So, I think it unlikely to happen.

ehh this is very wrong if you mean every player..

ofc not every but jsut many other players wont agree with you as this option will finally "open and option" to play and alts isntead of only main char

now I dont play alts because of how this is working...if this OPTION would be real then I finally would play also alts in many different content instead of only main for some content and then afk becasue of boredoom from playing single character for years

FrancisCrawford

kathandira wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

who do i need to sacrifice to which deadra to not do this when i start a new character. its just not fun repeating something that lost its purpose after the first time (skyshards). skyshards were there to let a player explore the world now that ive done that why revisit a place ive been several times before. its just a senseless time sink that feels like work and not playing a game.

Outside of the skills you use in your build, and additional passives, why do you need to farm skyshards?

I understand for a crafter, but not every character needs to be a crafter. Outside of that, why do you need additional skill points?

It's nice to have more than one build be possible on the same character.

But yes -- a lot of skill points can go into making gold: Hirelings, crafts at more than the minimum mat tiers, etc.

mxxo

Nooo.. Not this discussion again

But here is my tipp again: run the group events of all pubs and grab the skyshards in them. Gives you about 30 Skillpoints. You can do this even with a healer in very short time. There are so much fast skillpoints you can get... Unless you are making a crafter there is no point in complaining. The only Exception would be that you have to create 3 new chars every week... but who does?

Na0cho

They should at least let you keep the skill points/achievements for the main quest/fighter/mages guild. Those are the real annoying things to me after your 10th or so character.

I can lvl a char from 1-50 in one play session. Why can I do this but then have to spend a ton of time just to get enough points to flesh him out.

Also to the guy asking why some people need more skill points, people don’t want to be pigeon holed into one build all the time so it takes more skill points. For example I can just regear my stamdk tank into a stamdk pvper without having to respec etc. also there’s passives everywhere u need like fighters guild/undaunted etc.

Maybe I want all my chars to have every weapon mastered so I can change them out at will.

It’s pointless to force us to redo the same content over and over. Zone clears are one thing, in hurry up mode I can clear a zone Lickedy split.

Those annoying story quests though for the 10th plus time through having to listen to the prophet over and over and over.......

VaranisArano

Edziu wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

BringerOfOmens wrote: »

Wouldn't it be nice to have an OPTION at character creation such as:

1. Use account-wide skill points
2. Use account-wide achievements
3. Use account-wide quest journal

Many Alt-o-holics would rejoice at the option. The OPTION gives those who want to re-grind those things on other toons for role play or perhaps their personal enjoyment could do so where players who find other enjoyment in the game could choose that OPTION to do the lesser enjoyable things once and spend their time doing things in the game they enjoy more.

The key here is allowing players to do in the game what they find enjoyable. People tend to spend more time in enjoyable activities.

I would love to see the OPTION at the character level. My 2 cents worth.

Your OPTION means that players who are Alt-o-holics would be able to spend less time in game overall even if their time in game were more enjoyable.

If there's one thing we can take away from ZOS adding more and more grinds to ESO designed to keep players playing longer, we can tell that player enjoyment at the expense of less time in game is not their end goal. Instead, they wwant players playing longer even if they are less happy - in part because a robust population in game is good for an MMO and also because players who are in-game are more likely to spend money on ongoing content.

In short, over the entire game population, your OPTION makes ZOS less $$$. So, I think it unlikely to happen.

ehh this is very wrong if you mean every player..

ofc not every but jsut many other players wont agree with you as this option will finally "open and option" to play and alts isntead of only main char

now I dont play alts because of how this is working...if this OPTION would be real then I finally would play also alts in many different content instead of only main for some content and then afk becasue of boredoom from playing single character for years

I said "over the entire game population." By which I mean, "while some players will not play less if this option is available, many more players will play less than they otherwise would."

Its not about you or me as an individual. Its about the aggregate behavior of the entire game's population. Now, I don't have the data to back this up, but I strongly suspect the percentage of players who refuse to level up alts because of the grind and eventually fall away out of boredom is much lower than the players who suck it up and level alts despite the grind, thus extending their playtime before they eventually get tired of the grind and stop playing.

Every time someone grinds to level up an alt, that's ZOS' strategy working to keep people playing the game longer - and over the entire game population, I strongly suspect more people level up alts despite the grind than people who refuse to because of the grind.

In the long run and looking at the entire game population, ZOS is banking on a strategy of keeping players grinding away in game to make them more money than simply making people immediately happy with account-wide options for everything.

Tomg999

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Done. 8 Characters, 8 Cadwell's gold in the bag. 8 Characters with all skyshards from all the overland PvE zones (including Craglorn).

It's really not that hard. I can clear about a zone a day of Shards, Public Dungeon, and Alliance quests. That's about 2 weeks work to get a Character to 50 and get more skill points than you will ever realistically need.

I'm not really clear whether you are bragging or saying you are an average player.

Ohtimbar

Agreed. It's just trashy busywork.

josiahva

kathandira wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

who do i need to sacrifice to which deadra to not do this when i start a new character. its just not fun repeating something that lost its purpose after the first time (skyshards). skyshards were there to let a player explore the world now that ive done that why revisit a place ive been several times before. its just a senseless time sink that feels like work and not playing a game.

Outside of the skills you use in your build, and additional passives, why do you need to farm skyshards?

I understand for a crafter, but not every character needs to be a crafter. Outside of that, why do you need additional skill points?

Because some characters are more versatile than others and actually need them.

FrancisCrawford

mxxo wrote: »

Nooo.. Not this discussion again

But here is my tipp again: run the group events of all pubs and grab the skyshards in them. Gives you about 30 Skillpoints. You can do this even with a healer in very short time. There are so much fast skillpoints you can get... Unless you are making a crafter there is no point in complaining. The only Exception would be that you have to create 3 new chars every week... but who does?

I have a character with 195 skyshards, a lot of public dungeon clears and a lot of group dungeons clears who wishes he had more skill points.

I have one with 295 skyshards, a lot of public dungeon clears, and about 10 group dungeon clears. He wishes he had more skill points too. A lot more, actually. (That said, he's a Bosmer thief, so I think I'll be playing him a lot less in the future than I have to date, unless I change him to Khajit.)

And now that my original main and current main crafter is about to be actively played again (Breton sorcerer, as opposed to the Altmer who was my first character to Undaunted 9), even he is running low on skill points.

AlnilamE

Na0cho wrote: »

They should at least let you keep the skill points/achievements for the main quest/fighter/mages guild. Those are the real annoying things to me after your 10th or so character.

I can lvl a char from 1-50 in one play session. Why can I do this but then have to spend a ton of time just to get enough points to flesh him out.

Also to the guy asking why some people need more skill points, people don’t want to be pigeon holed into one build all the time so it takes more skill points. For example I can just regear my stamdk tank into a stamdk pvper without having to respec etc. also there’s passives everywhere u need like fighters guild/undaunted etc.

Maybe I want all my chars to have every weapon mastered so I can change them out at will.

It’s pointless to force us to redo the same content over and over. Zone clears are one thing, in hurry up mode I can clear a zone Lickedy split.

Those annoying story quests though for the 10th plus time through having to listen to the prophet over and over and over.......

And if that's what you want, that's fine. But you don't need to have all that within 10 hours of creating your character. Get your character battle-ready on their main spec, and then get additional skill points for a secondary spec and crafting over time. He's going to be there forever.

As for your first question, you can level your character in one play session and then have to go after everything else because you are ignoring the fact that all these skill lines and character level were designed to be worked on together. Sure, you can take a shortcut to 50 by running dolmens or whatever, but that comes with a price of not leveling guild skills (outside of Fighter's Guild) or getting extra skill points in the process. It may seem like a good idea when you start, but as you are yourself noting, it makes running after everything else once you are 50 seem "boring".

Again, it is your choice how you do this and you could level doing things that are more useful in the long run, even if it takes more than one play session to get to 50.

Personally, my main has every single skyshard in the game. She still has a couple of DLC zones to go through for skill points, but she doesn't really need any. My alts are in different levels of story completion, but the ones I play the most have enough skill points for what they need. The other ones, I work on bit by bit, mostly running in guild events and running dungeons. I don't worry about them too much unless I have a good chunk of time to dedicate to one of them, and that's worked for me. I now have a stam and a magicka version of each class (though the stamplar is not 50 yet for Cyrodiil reasons). I've not decided if I want to make a necro yet, since it's not a class that appeals to me.

Bouldercleave

Tomg999 wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Done. 8 Characters, 8 Cadwell's gold in the bag. 8 Characters with all skyshards from all the overland PvE zones (including Craglorn).

It's really not that hard. I can clear about a zone a day of Shards, Public Dungeon, and Alliance quests. That's about 2 weeks work to get a Character to 50 and get more skill points than you will ever realistically need.

I'm not really clear whether you are bragging or saying you are an average player.

I was responding to a comment earlier that you didn't bother to put in your quote.

My point was VERY clear. It's not hard or very time consuming to get more skill points than you will ever need. I'm sorry that you feel the need for insults instead of having valid counterpoints.

In a game that takes you 6 MONTHS to fully level your horse (which is not account bound either BTW) what are the odds of them giving you insta skill points?

Ri_Khan

More grindin', less cryin'' ya lazy sods! The amount of time wasted on this thread could've netted you a whole zones' worth of shards by now.

mxxo

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

mxxo wrote: »

Nooo.. Not this discussion again

But here is my tipp again: run the group events of all pubs and grab the skyshards in them. Gives you about 30 Skillpoints. You can do this even with a healer in very short time. There are so much fast skillpoints you can get... Unless you are making a crafter there is no point in complaining. The only Exception would be that you have to create 3 new chars every week... but who does?

I have a character with 195 skyshards, a lot of public dungeon clears and a lot of group dungeons clears who wishes he had more skill points.

I have one with 295 skyshards, a lot of public dungeon clears, and about 10 group dungeon clears. He wishes he had more skill points too. A lot more, actually. (That said, he's a Bosmer thief, so I think I'll be playing him a lot less in the future than I have to date, unless I change him to Khajit.)

And now that my original main and current main crafter is about to be actively played again (Breton sorcerer, as opposed to the Altmer who was my first character to Undaunted 9), even he is running low on skill points.

If you dont have enough skillpoints in this game you doing smth wrong, honestly. I have no problem with any char. 4 of my chars are even crafters besides their pve/pvp skills they have. Btw... you dont need to clear a pub, its enough to do the group event and grab the skyshard. Should take you 2 mins, after it you port to the next. Its rly not that hard. You make it sound like you are in a rly desperate situation... but you are not.

Curtdogg47

Mount speed is probably my least favorite grind to do on an alt!

Kalik_Gold

Do the math for the bare minimum skills and morphs needed... Then get that on your alts. Some builds require a few more tweaks, but you do not need ALL shards. Especially with other ways to acquire skill points, dungeons, pvp, quests.