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[PvE Thought] If PvE mechanics can no longer be skipped, how would the game change?

Transairion
Transairion
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Given it seems like higher DPS > everything for a lot of PvE content (not all), if bosses could no longer be "pushed past" mechanics by burning would the approach to PvE change?


For example say:

When pushed to 75% HP boss becomes invulnerable and remains so until it's mechanics for 100-76% HP are finished

When pushed to 50% HP boss becomes invulnerable and remains so until it's mechanics for 75-51% HP are finished

When pushed to 25%-10% HP boss becomes invulnerable and remains so until it's mechanics for 50-25%/11% HP are finished

10%HP and less remains the "execute" phase and no invulnerability occurs as most bosses enter high-damage mode at this point


Would this mean having high DPS would no longer be as necessary and sustainability/survival would become a lot more desired? Would completion of harder content increase or decrease with mechanics having to be followed instead of avoided entirely?

How much would you hate this change?
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    Nothing will change, game simply will be harder for those other guys who were carried by nuker before.
    And this feels stupid, external artificial mechanics (i.e. dungeon scripts) shouldn't override core game mechanics, i.e dps, hps, tank durability and so on.
  • Oakmontowls_ESO
    Oakmontowls_ESO
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    It would be boring as we wait for the boss to finish its laughable mechanic before it is burned down to the next hp threshold.
  • Vildebill
    Vildebill
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    This change would only increase the time it takes to kill a boss, which will make it more boring.
    EU PC
  • Joxer61
    Joxer61
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    the game would actually become more in line with what games should be, a challenge, not a burn-fest. Sadly players have outgrown ALOT of the content in this game and its so easy (like WOW and doing Heriocs solo)...most dungeons don't need a tank just dps so in turn this makes it suck for new players wanting to learn to tank where they would actually be needed and could hone their skills.
    Skipping/cheesing mechanics benefits no one and just makes for lazy gameplay. If that's what people want I hope ZOS never delivers! Nothing wrong with wiping a few times on a boss fight, it humbles you. Its a Boss, it SHOULD be hard and a challenge.
  • Uryel
    Uryel
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    You know what change I'd like to see ?

    Damage Dealing is not the Master Class of the game. Damage Dealers who invest everything on dealing as much as they can and can't even be bothered to have self survival tools would be frowned upon. Tanks are actually tanks, not buff monkeys, with proper AoE aggro skills, and their job would be to make sure everyone else is saved from taking most damage. Healers have a support role, not just healing, and by support, I mean THEY are the buff monkeys. Even better, "support" is the 4th class, and they have the buff / debuff / crowd control tools, and I mean real crowd control, not those ridiculous skills that stun an enemy for 2 seconds and then he's immune for 7 seconds...

    Basically, I guess I want to go back to the pre-WoW era...
    Edited by Uryel on February 11, 2019 5:25PM
    max_only wrote: »
    Bosmers sneaking past all the dangers in the woods. Come upon a cultist doing a ritual? Sneak past. Come upon a brigand ambush? Sneak past. Come upon a mighty beast? Sneak past. The feeling of “yesssss” when you can squeeze by in tight spaces unnoticed. Sometimes I’m able to take what I need from right under their noses.
  • ATomiX96
    ATomiX96
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    it would become *** boring, as score runs are decided by who has better clear on trash adds.
    Edited by ATomiX96 on February 15, 2019 6:07PM
    PC-EU 1k+ CP
    Ghosts and Goblins
    Sexy Squad
    World 3rd Immortal Redeemer (Feb. 2018)
    vHoF 35/36 (208k)
    Stopped playing ESO as my main game since Dragon Bones, glad that other great games exist :>
    Keep spending money on crown crates if you think its gonna make the gameplay better :^)
  • Joxer61
    Joxer61
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    ATomiX96 wrote: »
    it would become *** boring as score runs are decided who has better clear on trash adds.

    not everything is about "score runs". While going back to pre WOW may be a bit extreme good points by @Uryel overall. Sleeping/sheeping/ etc. would add another layer to what you need to do. Just running in and going pew pew does get old, quick....
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    People wouldn't know what to do, you'd start seeing groups ask for max CP minimums because mechanics have been ignored for so long.
  • DocFrost72
    DocFrost72
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    I suppose it would depend on the fight. A healthy balance of dps races and mechanic driven fights would be nice.

    My favorite boss mechanic in the game is the first boss in Vault's of Madness. Sure, you can burn through him... if you don't need a no death run! :innocent:
    Just a bit further
    You're really close

    If you came this far
    You deserve to know
    That my favorite thing to do
    In this world
    Is
    Troll.

    "Should I do it? No. Will I do it? Of ***ing course I will."
    "Offense is taken, not given."
  • Agenericname
    Agenericname
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    I suspect that it would have adverse effect on more casual players. Mechanics are the area where many struggle as is.

    Completion of harder content would probably only see a slight decrease, but over all I think the middle tier of content would take the biggest hit. The folks playing the hard content are already obeying the mechanics, or at least had to learn them to be able to speed run. They would simply adapt to the new mechanic and press on.
  • Uryel
    Uryel
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    I suspect that it would have adverse effect on more casual players. Mechanics are the area where many struggle as is.

    Actually, despite having almost 20 years worth of experience in MMOs, I consider myself rather casual. I mean, I never play any high end content and whatnot. I play the game to chill with my wife. We do dungeons and whatnot sometimes, but we can'tbe considered competitive in any way.

    Mechanics are not the problem, when they are sensible. Anything as stupid as "if the boss doesn't die within 5 minutes, he will start dealing double damage) is NOT sensible. A sensible mechanic is one that lets people win if they are clever enough, not one that punishes low DPS and rewards learning super efficient rotations by heart.

    And I personnaly think that THIS would be what has the most impact on casual players. Most of us can't be arsed performing top notch rotations. I consider myself especially good if I ger anything above 15k DPS on a dummy, and I'm at least 20k below what is considered minimum requirement for trials. My DPS sucks, basically.

    Still, my medium armour wearing Bosme nightblade can hold her own without a healer against a good 2/3 world boss, and win solo. It will take her time, but she will win, because she's a good mix of devent sustain, not tank-level damage output (well, maybe tank level if you factor trials, but you should see MY tank level damage output ^^'), and self survival.

    We casuals are scrubs when it comes to damage output. Any mechanic that requires to dish ludicrously high damage or else we're being punished, THAT is what has adverse effects on casual players. Being clever enough to roll around, stay alive through attacks that heal somewhat, and whittle it down slowly until the cavalry arrives or until the boss dies of old age, that's pretty easy :)
    max_only wrote: »
    Bosmers sneaking past all the dangers in the woods. Come upon a cultist doing a ritual? Sneak past. Come upon a brigand ambush? Sneak past. Come upon a mighty beast? Sneak past. The feeling of “yesssss” when you can squeeze by in tight spaces unnoticed. Sometimes I’m able to take what I need from right under their noses.
  • thedude33
    thedude33
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    Uryel wrote: »
    You know what change I'd like to see ?

    Damage Dealing is not the Master Class of the game. Damage Dealers who invest everything on dealing as much as they can and can't even be bothered to have self survival tools would be frowned upon. Tanks are actually tanks, not buff monkeys, with proper AoE aggro skills, and their job would be to make sure everyone else is saved from taking most damage. Healers have a support role, not just healing, and by support, I mean THEY are the buff monkeys. Even better, "support" is the 4th class, and they have the buff / debuff / crowd control tools, and I mean real crowd control, not those ridiculous skills that stun an enemy for 2 seconds and then he's immune for 7 seconds...

    Basically, I guess I want to go back to the pre-WoW era...

    Pre WoW as in something like Everquest? Even DaoC

    Where you needed -

    1. DPS
    2. Tank
    3. Healing
    4. and most importantly CC

    No CC = wipe. Not assisting on same mob, while others were CCed = wipe

    It was such a shock going to other games where you just blast away at each and every mob and AOE was king.

    1v1 Win/Loss Record in PvP.
    1 Wins - 392 Losses (guy was AFK)

  • cpuScientist
    cpuScientist
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    For those saying it would mean it would be a challenge not a burn-fest. It is a challenging to actually make the game a burn fest. If not everyone would be burning through all bosses, but they do not because they can not. Because getting your dps that high is not easy and not many are able to do it. The older content is where the burn fest occurs, as in most MMO old content is easier new content is harder. Then when new content comes out the devs make the old more accessible that along with power creep from cp and new sets keep this trend going.

    If bosses then became unkillable after a certain health percentage and then did their mechanic. It would just be a yoyo of burn till mechanic wait burn wait burn wait. Not fun or satisfying. It is up to zos to continue to make varied mechanics in their new content which they have been very good at doing with the new 4 man content. And new trials. Look at vAS+2 and compare that to vSA world shaper. Those were just tank and spank now their is so much for the dps healer and tanks to do and be aware of. That even for the groups with the highest dps they still have to worry about mechanics.

    So GG zos on fixing this problem without having to go and add artificial barriers to the games content.
  • SugaComa
    SugaComa
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    Mechanics should adapt to the team ... So it remains challenging ... Not just simple immunity ... If the DPS is above a certain threshold then additional mechanics should be introduced to give greater challenge and greater rewards ... A bit like hard mode but an automated reaction to the team performance
  • Agenericname
    Agenericname
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    Uryel wrote: »
    I suspect that it would have adverse effect on more casual players. Mechanics are the area where many struggle as is.

    Actually, despite having almost 20 years worth of experience in MMOs, I consider myself rather casual. I mean, I never play any high end content and whatnot. I play the game to chill with my wife. We do dungeons and whatnot sometimes, but we can'tbe considered competitive in any way.

    Mechanics are not the problem, when they are sensible. Anything as stupid as "if the boss doesn't die within 5 minutes, he will start dealing double damage) is NOT sensible. A sensible mechanic is one that lets people win if they are clever enough, not one that punishes low DPS and rewards learning super efficient rotations by heart.

    And I personnaly think that THIS would be what has the most impact on casual players. Most of us can't be arsed performing top notch rotations. I consider myself especially good if I ger anything above 15k DPS on a dummy, and I'm at least 20k below what is considered minimum requirement for trials. My DPS sucks, basically.

    Still, my medium armour wearing Bosme nightblade can hold her own without a healer against a good 2/3 world boss, and win solo. It will take her time, but she will win, because she's a good mix of devent sustain, not tank-level damage output (well, maybe tank level if you factor trials, but you should see MY tank level damage output ^^'), and self survival.

    We casuals are scrubs when it comes to damage output. Any mechanic that requires to dish ludicrously high damage or else we're being punished, THAT is what has adverse effects on casual players. Being clever enough to roll around, stay alive through attacks that heal somewhat, and whittle it down slowly until the cavalry arrives or until the boss dies of old age, that's pretty easy :)

    That's possibly because after 20 years of playing MMOs the competitve aspect starts to lose some of its appeal. :)

    I'm only aware of one dungeon that truly needs high DPS to get through and even then its conditional. In the rest, high DPS serves to reduce the exposure, to mostly mechanics. Most of the dungeons in this game have mechanics that will allow for exactly what you have specified.

    The fight that the OP is asking for already exists. It's in darkshade caverns 2, the squid. While I don't find it particularly difficult, it's not a wildly popular fight. On vet I would consider that the lower end of the middle tier dungeons or the high end of the lower tier dungeons.

    MHK doesn't require an insane amount of DPS to clear it. It's the mechanics that are the issue. Whether or not they're sensible is another story, but it's not about ridiculously high numbers. I've gotten through a fair number of dungeons, on vet, including some of the DLCs, where the group's damage wasn't much higher than your own.

  • Schattenfluegel
    Schattenfluegel
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    Back to the roots, i guess.....maybe it would be well for the game.
  • profundidob16_ESO
    profundidob16_ESO
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    The community would be forced to adapt and as a result...would adapt !


    The worst pve players would stick to overland questing and and Worldbosses only. They would queue for randoms dungeons after being kicked enough times.

    The medium pve players would refrain from queuing for vet dlc but happily do anything less including normal dlc

    the good pve players will prefer the harder content since it guarantees them playes of equal level after the initial adjustment phase. The incapable pve players that still try to sneak in to profit from a group but clearly unable to carry their weight would be kicked as they fail the mechanics and wipe the entire group, preventing progress.

    Besides that most pve players would start improving their gameplay because they simply have to now, just as it used to be right after the game's release: Adapt and improve or "THOU SHALLT NOT PASS THIS GATE !"



  • itsfatbass
    itsfatbass
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    Tasear wrote: »
    There's already fights like this in game.

    Indeed. There are a PLETHORA of these fights. Many many trial and dungeon bosses actually go IMMUNE to damage until you do mechanics. I'll assume the OP is talking about the vanilla dungeons... which are facerolled regardless...
  • ZeroXFF
    ZeroXFF
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    DocFrost72 wrote: »
    I suppose it would depend on the fight. A healthy balance of dps races and mechanic driven fights would be nice.

    My favorite boss mechanic in the game is the first boss in Vault's of Madness. Sure, you can burn through him... if you don't need a no death run! :innocent:

    Actually if your DPS is good enough, you can kill him before he does his beam... Guess you haven't been in VoM with actually good DDs...
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