Are the current Orc passives a joke?

ck37090

Just comparing Altmer (which should be the premiere magicka damage dealer) to the Orc (the now primiere stamina damage dealer)

Altmer:
Increases Experience gain in Destruction Staff Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Generic Experience gain → No changes
Spell Recharge: The return for this passive will now restore your lowest maximum resource, rather than your highest. We also increased the value to 645 from 525.
Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time.
Gift of Magnus: 10% Max Magicka → Syrabane’s Boon: Increases your Max Magicka by 2000.
Elemental Talent: 4% Fire/Shock/Ice damage → Increases your Spell Damage by 258.

Orc:
Increases Experience gain in Heavy Armor Skill Line by 15%, extra 10% Inspiration gain
Brawny: This passive now grants 2000 Max Stamina instead of 500 Health and 500 Stamina.
Unflinching Rage: This passive now grants 1000 Max Health and heals you for up to 600 when you deal damage with a weapon, with a 4 second cooldown. Previously, it granted 4% Healing Taken, and 380 Stamina and Health when dealing damage with a weapon.
Swift Warrior: Increases your Weapon Damage by 258. Reduces the cost of your Sprint ability by 12% and increases your Movement Speed while Sprinting by 10%.

so both get 2000 max main stat, both get increase to damage so a wash
Altmer gets: a regen to opposite stat (which has 0 value in PVE and does have some value in PVP...but that is it...so pretty much garbage

whereas the Orc gets: an added 12% sprint cost reduction, 10% speed increase while sprinting (very powerful in PvP), 1000 extra health and a active combat heal

In what world did they balance this? I highly doubt the Orc will go live as it is, but what the hell were they thinking with this version? Orc gets 1000 extra health + 12% sprint cost reduction + 10% speed increase on sprint + a 600 combat heal with damage and they think all that is in balance with a 645 return on the stat you don't use...does ANYONE think that is balanced?

Vapirko

The opposite stat regen is very useful in PvP, and people are quite happy about it. Also you conveniently forget to mention that Orc speed is equally as useless in PvE while being great in PvP. Both are PvP mobility oriented. Neither class has any sustain passives that are useful in PvE. In terms of damage stats they are equal.

Orc combat heal is useless, it will not make even a slight difference in PvP or PvE.

So what you really have is:

2k stam vs 2k mag
1k health (600 health return, 300 in PvP) vs 5% reduced damage while channeling
258 wpn damdage vs 258 spell damage
Sprint speed/Cost reduction vs Stamina return or Magicka/Health return if you get really low

ChunkyCat

Morgul667

Id take stamine orc against a magicka altmer anytime of the day in this version

Hopefully they will tune down orc a little or boost very slightly altmer so it all comes back to normal

I think reducing slightly orc would be more appropriate

ck37090

Vapirko wrote: »

The opposite stat regen is very useful in PvP, and people are quite happy about it. Also you conveniently forget to mention that Orc speed is equally as useless in PvE while being great in PvP. Both are PvP mobility oriented. Neither class has any sustain passives that are useful in PvE. In terms of damage stats they are equal.

Orc combat heal is useless, it will not make even a slight difference in PvP or PvE.

So what you really have is:

2k stam vs 2k mag
1k health (600 health return, 300 in PvP) vs 5% reduced damage while channeling
258 wpn damdage vs 258 spell damage
Sprint speed/Cost reduction vs Stamina return or Magicka/Health return if you get really low

These Orc passives (in many people's opinions) are definitely above all others...every single one of them is ideal. Its fine in that I can swap races (hopefully they will give a good deal on the change tokens) but they didn't balance the races (yet)...they are just moving the meta around...at this point it would just be better to keep the first passive for all races and copy and paste the rest and eliminate any argument.

Vapirko

ck37090 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

The opposite stat regen is very useful in PvP, and people are quite happy about it. Also you conveniently forget to mention that Orc speed is equally as useless in PvE while being great in PvP. Both are PvP mobility oriented. Neither class has any sustain passives that are useful in PvE. In terms of damage stats they are equal.

Orc combat heal is useless, it will not make even a slight difference in PvP or PvE.

So what you really have is:

2k stam vs 2k mag
1k health (600 health return, 300 in PvP) vs 5% reduced damage while channeling
258 wpn damdage vs 258 spell damage
Sprint speed/Cost reduction vs Stamina return or Magicka/Health return if you get really low

These Orc passives (in many people's opinions) are definitely above all others...every single one of them is ideal. Its fine in that I can swap races (hopefully they will give a good deal on the change tokens) but they didn't balance the races (yet)...they are just moving the meta around...at this point it would just be better to keep the first passive for all races and copy and paste the rest and eliminate any argument.

Perhaps, but that won't happen. And the problem right now is 1) the new CP calculations are not up so we don't know what the end result will be and 2) most of the opinions on orc passives are just that, opinion. RACES WILL NOT BE PERFECTLY BALANCED, METAS SHIFT. Sorry but thats just the way it is and frighteningly few people are willing to get on PTS and actually compare and contrast how races are performing vs stating the same, purposefully biased comparisons over and over. If Altmers got 1k health and a useless heal instead of 5% channel damage reduction would that make you happy? Because the stamina return vs sprint speed and reduction is very comparably useful given the difference in play styles.

Priyasekarssk

Vapirko wrote: »

ck37090 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

The opposite stat regen is very useful in PvP, and people are quite happy about it. Also you conveniently forget to mention that Orc speed is equally as useless in PvE while being great in PvP. Both are PvP mobility oriented. Neither class has any sustain passives that are useful in PvE. In terms of damage stats they are equal.

Orc combat heal is useless, it will not make even a slight difference in PvP or PvE.

So what you really have is:

2k stam vs 2k mag
1k health (600 health return, 300 in PvP) vs 5% reduced damage while channeling
258 wpn damdage vs 258 spell damage
Sprint speed/Cost reduction vs Stamina return or Magicka/Health return if you get really low

These Orc passives (in many people's opinions) are definitely above all others...every single one of them is ideal. Its fine in that I can swap races (hopefully they will give a good deal on the change tokens) but they didn't balance the races (yet)...they are just moving the meta around...at this point it would just be better to keep the first passive for all races and copy and paste the rest and eliminate any argument.

Perhaps, but that won't happen. And the problem right now is 1) the new CP calculations are not up so we don't know what the end result will be and 2) most of the opinions on orc passives are just that, opinion. RACES WILL NOT BE PERFECTLY BALANCED, METAS SHIFT. Sorry but thats just the way it is and frighteningly few people are willing to get on PTS and actually compare and contrast how races are performing vs stating the same, purposefully biased comparisons over and over. If Altmers got 1k health and a useless heal instead of 5% channel damage reduction would that make you happy? Because the stamina return vs sprint speed and reduction is very comparably useful given the difference in play styles.

Dont worry dude. You will have plenty of stamsorc orcs in opponents. You know "Free Race change". You wont be alone. Eventually it will be toned down after race change tokens sold out.

Vapirko

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

ck37090 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

The opposite stat regen is very useful in PvP, and people are quite happy about it. Also you conveniently forget to mention that Orc speed is equally as useless in PvE while being great in PvP. Both are PvP mobility oriented. Neither class has any sustain passives that are useful in PvE. In terms of damage stats they are equal.

Orc combat heal is useless, it will not make even a slight difference in PvP or PvE.

So what you really have is:

2k stam vs 2k mag
1k health (600 health return, 300 in PvP) vs 5% reduced damage while channeling
258 wpn damdage vs 258 spell damage
Sprint speed/Cost reduction vs Stamina return or Magicka/Health return if you get really low

These Orc passives (in many people's opinions) are definitely above all others...every single one of them is ideal. Its fine in that I can swap races (hopefully they will give a good deal on the change tokens) but they didn't balance the races (yet)...they are just moving the meta around...at this point it would just be better to keep the first passive for all races and copy and paste the rest and eliminate any argument.

Perhaps, but that won't happen. And the problem right now is 1) the new CP calculations are not up so we don't know what the end result will be and 2) most of the opinions on orc passives are just that, opinion. RACES WILL NOT BE PERFECTLY BALANCED, METAS SHIFT. Sorry but thats just the way it is and frighteningly few people are willing to get on PTS and actually compare and contrast how races are performing vs stating the same, purposefully biased comparisons over and over. If Altmers got 1k health and a useless heal instead of 5% channel damage reduction would that make you happy? Because the stamina return vs sprint speed and reduction is very comparably useful given the difference in play styles.

Dont worry dude. You will have plenty of stamsorc orcs in opponents. You know "Free Race change". You wont be alone. Eventually it will be toned down after race change tokens sold out.

What? Stam sorcs are one of the worst, if not the worst, PvP class right now. The orc changes won’t help that.

Tasear

Again...why would they hurt altmers the most popular race... This decision lacks looking at human factors instead of just numbers.

Stx

Orcs aren't even fast in elder scrolls lore. Why the hell do they have a sprint bonus?

Vapirko

Stx wrote: »

Orcs aren't even fast in elder scrolls lore. Why the hell do they have a sprint bonus?

I think it’s obvious by now that ESO has its own, flexible Lore in order to keep the game adaptable.

BRODY

Redgards must have sprint bonus, not orc. Ok? Orc was higest strong in Lore, not higest fast. And best stamina regen and race passive for stamina always was at redgards.

BRODY

Stx wrote: »

Orcs aren't even fast in elder scrolls lore. Why the hell do they have a sprint bonus?

Lol, my thoughts

Red_Feather

Do you want altmer's to get those orc passives instead. Cowards using magic from a distance no more!

Beffagorn

Stx wrote: »

Orcs aren't even fast in elder scrolls lore. Why the hell do they have a sprint bonus?

It's about reinforcing the stereotypes of the Elder Scrolls races and what are orcs known for? Shock Troopers, Barbarians, and Juggernauts.

That change reflects the shock trooper stereotype perfectly. It's about sprinting and not general speed. Obviously, an Orc isn't as fast as a Khajiit or Wood Elf (And in fact, the racials reflect that), but are they going to be faster when charging wearing a full set of plate armor or even mail armor? Yes, by far.

(Btw, Strenght influences speed A LOT, especially sprinting, while muscle mass reduces it. Considering Orcs are the strongest humanoid civilized race around without being a bloated mass of muscles, they would be among the fastest races in Tamriel)

Pelican

600 healing every 4 seconds is basically nothing. Just saying, rally heal OVER TIME gives around 1.2k every 2 seconds, so 4 times as much. And that is considering your orc passive procs on cooldown.

Murador178

Morgul667 wrote: »

Id take stamine orc against a magicka altmer anytime of the day in this version

Hopefully they will tune down orc a little or boost very slightly altmer so it all comes back to normal

I think reducing slightly orc would be more appropriate

But why would u pick a altmer as a magicka player? That is like picking a woodelf over an orc as stamina player . New BiS magicka races are breton and then khajit. In PvP atleast.

This patch should be called the genocide of elves .

Raammzzaa

Funny this thread is going in here. Meanwhile, another thread in the general section is going on about how OP the new Altamer passives are going to be in pvp... lol 😆

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458019/altmer-new-passive-the-best-for-pvp/p1

Uryel

Tasear wrote: »

Again...why would they hurt altmers the most popular race... This decision lacks looking at human factors instead of just numbers.

Which is exactly why I call the guys behind that change "the Maths Team".

Banana

Orc look like the go to stamina race to me. If you can deal with the appearance.