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Opinion: Current Class BG Tiers (and how to improve)

mursie
mursie
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a thread to share opinion on the current tiers of classes in BG's and what others have seen that "buck the trend" and allow lower tier classes to play at higher tier levels:

Tier A:
Stam Warden - the elite killing machine. damage efficiency is nearly perfect in a chaotic 4v4v4 arena where aoe reigns supreme. armed with dbos, spin, and sub assault, this class can rip through clumps of enemies while still providing significant utility to teammates via trees, fortress, vines, etc..

Magicka Sorc - an elite single target killing machine with excellent mobility and the best kill stealing executes in the game. with passives and fury carrying the load, this class reaps death and destruction via massive frags, curse, and reach all while still providing great defense via shields and pet heals. Bonus points for the army of minions that can be summoned and used as target blocking dummies while reaping havoc on the battleifield


Tier B:
Stam Sorc - great aoe dmg viable via hurricane, cloak, dbos, and spin. mobility accessible via streak. can be a little squish compared to their warden brothers but still capable of packing significant punch. added benefit of execute passives and physical dmg modifiers. a well rounded bg toon compliment

Mag Warden - A strong support dps that can still pack significant dmg via deep the animal companion line. access to great utility buffs for team, good heals, and some excellent control features to bog down opponents via frost mechanics.

Tier C:
Stam Plar - fantastic weapon damage capability providing significant punch via PotL and jabs. decent healing and utility via the best cleanse in game (with snare) and BoL morphs. Lacks a good range mitigator which makes it susceptible to good mag sorcs and ranged bow builds but still very formidable with most classes in a melee scrum

Mag Plar - good dmg. good utility. same weakness as stam plar with respect to range. very formidable 1v1.

Tier D:
Stam DK - a kit full of dots. can bring significant pressure and does have the best CC in the game. wings brings excellent range mitigation. None the less, warden does everything a stamDK can do - and does it better

MagDK - a niche kit for fire fanatics. fun to whip but overall mostly meh. does have the best CC in game and brings wings to the table. mobility can be an issue and survivability can be an issue since light armor is required to do decent damage in no-cp and magdk kit requires melee range combat. a recipe that can often lead to disaster

Tier E:
MagBlade - relegated to stealth assassin kitchy builds that try and 1shot from the shadows. easily countered in ball group bg's and mostly an afterthought due to the significant upgrade that can be achieved by rolling a sorc instead.

StamBlade - relegated to a stealth assassin kitchy build with bow. the melee brawler dream is often aspired to, rarely achieved. squishy with buffs that require dmg application to bring up - mostly an afterthought in any bg group combat because they don't have the brawler aoe to stand toe to toe with their warden/stam sorc compatriots.


If you disagree with an assessment, which i expect most will, please provide the build and skills you are seeing that create a significant deviation from the list.
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twitter: @mursieftw
  • Urvoth
    Urvoth
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    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    I generally agree except I think magsorc and magwarden should swap places. It's true that magsorcs get more killing blows but magdens generally have more impact in group fights IMO. Magdens have the only source of AOE Major Breach that's attached to a massive burst, and a well timed Permafrost/Northern Storm can completely turn around a fight in a way that nothing in the sorcerer kit can match.

    And how can we forget about frostdens and magden healers with AOE defile lol

    I agree, Magsorcs can struggle without decent team support and the lack of aoe dmg/debuffs/heals often necessitates piggybacking off other people’s plays.

    While you can certainly nuke some single targets and generally will end up with high kills, you can rarely initiate a full team wipe as a magsorc since your delayed burst is primarily one person at a time. Comparatively, magdens have ample aoe and debuffs alongside game changing defensive and offensive ults that can easily turn a fight.
  • Urvoth
    Urvoth
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    My list would be pretty similar with a few minor adjustments, though a lot of this is build dependent:

    A Tier: Stamden, Magden
    B Tier: Magsorc, Magplar
    C Tier: Stamsorc, Stamdk, Stamplar
    D Tier: Magdk, Stamblade
    E Tier: Magblade
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Everyone says stamden is #1 and I partially agree - that’s why I play one.

    But if they’re really #1 then where are all of them? There really aren’t many stamdens in the high MMR matches on PC NA unless they queue in as a premade.

    Tbh I think Stam sorc is #1. They’re the only class that can run DW/2h and get in range to dump and spin on a clump, and then get back out of range easily via streak.

    For premades tho, yeah def warden
    Edited by Thogard on February 7, 2019 9:57PM
    PC NA - Thogard / Sir Thogalot / Thoggy Boi jr / Thogaine / Madam Clamslam

    twitch.tv/ThogardPvP
  • PhoenixGrey
    PhoenixGrey
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    mursie wrote: »
    Magicka Sorc - an elite single target killing machine with excellent mobility and the best kill stealing executes in the game. with passives and fury carrying the load, this class reaps death and destruction via massive frags, curse, and reach all while still providing great defense via shields and pet heals.

    LMAO

    Mag sorcs don't even qualify for a tier as long as the numerous hard counters it has still exist in the game.

    When not hard countered, mag sorc has this negligible burst which almost never hits. Class execute which can be dodged twice and a frag which rarely hits people after a few years of travel time and can be reflected back at you whenever it decides to hit. Of course, unblockable curse which informs you in advance before it hits and is so often purged and does negligible damage when it hits.


    DC Sorc: Fading Phoenix
    AD Warden: Grey Phoenix
  • Morgul667
    Morgul667
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    I find Stam blade is pretty amazing too

  • StarOfElyon
    StarOfElyon
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    mursie wrote: »
    Magicka Sorc - an elite single target killing machine with excellent mobility and the best kill stealing executes in the game. with passives and fury carrying the load, this class reaps death and destruction via massive frags, curse, and reach all while still providing great defense via shields and pet heals.

    LMAO

    Mag sorcs don't even qualify for a tier as long as the numerous hard counters it has still exist in the game.

    When not hard countered, mag sorc has this negligible burst which almost never hits. Class execute which can be dodged twice and a frag which rarely hits people after a few years of travel time and can be reflected back at you whenever it decides to hit. Of course, unblockable curse which informs you in advance before it hits and is so often purged and does negligible damage when it hits.


    I think MagSorcs make up a large population of BG. So they must be much better than you say.
  • Urvoth
    Urvoth
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    mursie wrote: »
    Magicka Sorc - an elite single target killing machine with excellent mobility and the best kill stealing executes in the game. with passives and fury carrying the load, this class reaps death and destruction via massive frags, curse, and reach all while still providing great defense via shields and pet heals.

    LMAO

    Mag sorcs don't even qualify for a tier as long as the numerous hard counters it has still exist in the game.

    When not hard countered, mag sorc has this negligible burst which almost never hits. Class execute which can be dodged twice and a frag which rarely hits people after a few years of travel time and can be reflected back at you whenever it decides to hit. Of course, unblockable curse which informs you in advance before it hits and is so often purged and does negligible damage when it hits.


    I think MagSorcs make up a large population of BG. So they must be much better than you say.

    Like NBs, there are tons of them at low MMR but their player numbers start dropping like flies as MMR increases.
  • Vapirko
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    A decent assessment, but to what end? The closer you get to high tier gameplay some classes are always going to come out on top. And you can’t exaclty go around buffing stamblades rn. MagSorcs also don’t deserve any nerfs. The game is already really tough to balance between PvP and PvE and CP/noCP. Adding to that open world PvP and the closed environment of BGs just adds an entirely new layer.
  • mursie
    mursie
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    Vapirko wrote: »
    A decent assessment, but to what end? The closer you get to high tier gameplay some classes are always going to come out on top. And you can’t exaclty go around buffing stamblades rn. MagSorcs also don’t deserve any nerfs. The game is already really tough to balance between PvP and PvE and CP/noCP. Adding to that open world PvP and the closed environment of BGs just adds an entirely new layer.

    a good and fair point. to what end indeed. perhaps nothing more than a record keeping for this moment in time. it is good to see the chronology of things. Since February of last year, i've noted the following:

    1. stamblades are everywhere - extremely OP
    2. magwardens are trash - bottom tier
    3. magsorcs are gods - rune cage combo unbeatable
    4. stamdks are trash - bottom tier
    5. magsorc shields nerfed - will be mules for inventory
    6. magwardens OP - frost snares everywhere
    7. stamdks strong - wings wings wings
    8. magsorc still strong - shield nerf overblown
    9. stamblades non existent in high end bg's... can't move bottom tier

    just some of the comments, in chronological fashion, that have happened just in the past 12 months to this game. what will the tier list look like 12 months from now? who knows. Necromancer god tier (calling it now).

    balance, like utopia, is an ideal. likely never fully achieved. a nirvana that we can only aspire towards. these state of the union threads shed light on the current meta as we stand today. provide a framework for tweaks by devs in the months ahead, and will undoubtedly be completely altered as proven by the timeline above as we march forward into elswyr. See you on the other side.
    twitch.tv/mursieftw
    twitter: @mursieftw
  • PhoenixGrey
    PhoenixGrey
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    Urvoth wrote: »
    mursie wrote: »
    Magicka Sorc - an elite single target killing machine with excellent mobility and the best kill stealing executes in the game. with passives and fury carrying the load, this class reaps death and destruction via massive frags, curse, and reach all while still providing great defense via shields and pet heals.

    LMAO

    Mag sorcs don't even qualify for a tier as long as the numerous hard counters it has still exist in the game.

    When not hard countered, mag sorc has this negligible burst which almost never hits. Class execute which can be dodged twice and a frag which rarely hits people after a few years of travel time and can be reflected back at you whenever it decides to hit. Of course, unblockable curse which informs you in advance before it hits and is so often purged and does negligible damage when it hits.


    I think MagSorcs make up a large population of BG. So they must be much better than you say.

    Like NBs, there are tons of them at low MMR but their player numbers start dropping like flies as MMR increases.

    IMO the shield nerf killed off the class in bg's although shields are slightly stronger in the cp campaign.

    Bleeds, oblivion and crit damage which are the main sources of damage in high MMR bg's mean you can get one shot through your tiny shield stack.
    DC Sorc: Fading Phoenix
    AD Warden: Grey Phoenix
  • RebornV3x
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    Wut? Mag Sorcs are C tier maybe B tier with the right setup, player skill and group composition at best and Stamblades are A Tier not E lol everything else seems right... More or less...
    Xbox One - NA GT: RebornV3x
    I also play on PC from time to time but I just wanna be left alone on there so sorry.
  • clocksstoppe
    clocksstoppe
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    mursie wrote: »
    Magicka Sorc - an elite single target killing machine with excellent mobility and the best kill stealing executes in the game. with passives and fury carrying the load, this class reaps death and destruction via massive frags, curse, and reach all while still providing great defense via shields and pet heals.

    LMAO

    Mag sorcs don't even qualify for a tier as long as the numerous hard counters it has still exist in the game.

    When not hard countered, mag sorc has this negligible burst which almost never hits. Class execute which can be dodged twice and a frag which rarely hits people after a few years of travel time and can be reflected back at you whenever it decides to hit. Of course, unblockable curse which informs you in advance before it hits and is so often purged and does negligible damage when it hits.


    I get top scores as mag sorc and I have no idea what these hard counters are that you speak of
  • MaxJrFTW
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    A - Stamsorc, Magden
    B - Magplar
    C - Magsorc, Stamden(as mentioned already, if they're so good then why nobody plays one?)
    D - Stamplar, Stamdk
    E - Magblade, Magdk
    F - Stamblade. Yes, f. You're a free kill. There's absolutely nothing a stamblade can do against an organized group.

    I'm a templar only player so far, so at least that's how i perceive it.

    Stamplar is my opinion suffers from a very limited kit. They lack uniqueness, they lack self healing, they lack mobility, they lack build variety, THEY LACK MAJOR BRUTALITY...You're forced to pick 2h for major brutality and rally, that says it all for me. They have a very restrictive bar set up that can hardly be altered and doesn't allow for any sort of creativity. Rune, cleanse, jabs, repentance, potl, rally, an execute because good luck killing any decent player with jabs, a dot either poison injection or rending. They're forced to run the one straight forward, 1 trick pony set up that 100% depends on potl, an ability that can be and will often be cleansed in the current meta. Stamplars aren't fooling anyone anymore, they have only 1 possible bar set up at a high mmr and it makes them far too predictable.

    Oh btw, how many stamplars do you see queuing high mmr bgs? Vandstyle, CrimsonTide(i believe that's the name), who else?

    Anyways, rant over. I'm glad i dropped stamplar for magplar.
    Edited by MaxJrFTW on February 10, 2019 3:29PM
    "I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
    ―Ulrich Leland, 3E 433
  • brandonv516
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    Generally agree with the entire assessment.

    Magblade part is spot on.
  • CatchMeTrolling
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    Seem like these lists are based on premades, especially since stam nb is so low. There’s low mmr, high mmr , premades, opposing classes, class synergy and team chemistry to consider. Don’t think you can make one objective list.

    But if I had to make a few points then stam nb is top tier amongst low tier players and people who lack team work. Magden is only good with good team mates since they capitalize off team synergy, magdk can fall into that category too depending on the player. Stam Sorc is probably the best overall because they’re the most consistent no matter the scenario. Mag sorc will always be relevant because of kill stealing, pet sorcs can be really annoying as well.
    Edited by CatchMeTrolling on February 10, 2019 7:40PM
    Ebonheart Pact: Templar - Overlord - Knight Paladin Tiberium Aka The Golden Saint

  • Zer0oo
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    it is hard to rank this classes that way since it really depends on your team, on the enemy team and your build.


    if you team is only range except you, you are screwed as melee

    high mmr vs low mmr // stacked vs bunch of solo players

    tanking or kiting grp

    Many players also do not adjust their builds for bgs. A medium armor gank build will perform poor in high mmr while will be good mode in low mmr. But a heavy armor cheese blade setup performs fairly well in higher mmr.


    Also classes can be played decent well in high mmr bracket but some have in some aspects the edge in term of aoe burst, survival and movement.
    EU player that is salty about BAD performance and not working BGs
  • bagon
    bagon
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    Id swap magden and magsorc around. Magsorcs definatley good in bgs but you cant bring anything close to what a magden brings to a team fight. Also magplar should be either a or b. With breath of life jesus beam and purify id say its just as important as a warden
    Edited by bagon on February 10, 2019 8:06PM
  • bagon
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    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    A - Stamsorc, Magden
    B - Magplar
    C - Magsorc, Stamden(as mentioned already, if they're so good then why nobody plays one?)
    D - Stamplar, Stamdk
    E - Magblade, Magdk
    F - Stamblade. Yes, f. You're a free kill. There's absolutely nothing a stamblade can do against an organized group.

    I'm a templar only player so far, so at least that's how i perceive it.

    Stamplar is my opinion suffers from a very limited kit. They lack uniqueness, they lack self healing, they lack mobility, they lack build variety, THEY LACK MAJOR BRUTALITY...You're forced to pick 2h for major brutality and rally, that says it all for me. They have a very restrictive bar set up that can hardly be altered and doesn't allow for any sort of creativity. Rune, cleanse, jabs, repentance, potl, rally, an execute because good luck killing any decent player with jabs, a dot either poison injection or rending. They're forced to run the one straight forward, 1 trick pony set up that 100% depends on potl, an ability that can be and will often be cleansed in the current meta. Stamplars aren't fooling anyone anymore, they have only 1 possible bar set up at a high mmr and it makes them far too predictable.

    Oh btw, how many stamplars do you see queuing high mmr bgs? Vandstyle, CrimsonTide(i believe that's the name), who else?

    Anyways, rant over. I'm glad i dropped stamplar for magplar.

    Stamplars only ranked so low because its not really a spin class so it doesnt secure kills. Class is in an amazing spot. And this limited kit you speak of isnt restricted to stamplar. This is what happens when all zos does is nerf, they kill playstyles. Almost every other class in the game right now lacks build variety. They dont lack uniqueness, if you think thats true dont play stamsorc. And you are correct stamplar doesnt have the best healing, but you have purify, one of the best abillities in the game.
  • Daus
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    Yeah it's pretty accurate. Wardens are best, followed by sorcs. Templars are also fantastic in BGs. Truthfully only DKs and Nightblades are kind of meh. DKs can be great for crowd control, but you can get that easily enough from mag Wardens. Nightblades can be great for taking down healers, but usually get mowed down trying.
  • CatchMeTrolling
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    Daus wrote: »
    Yeah it's pretty accurate. Wardens are best, followed by sorcs. Templars are also fantastic in BGs. Truthfully only DKs and Nightblades are kind of meh. DKs can be great for crowd control, but you can get that easily enough from mag Wardens. Nightblades can be great for taking down healers, but usually get mowed down trying.

    Mag dks have roots, ccs, snares, wings and aoe damage. Good mag dks thrive in bgs, especially in this meta.
    Ebonheart Pact: Templar - Overlord - Knight Paladin Tiberium Aka The Golden Saint

  • KhajiitFelix
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    I don't know... I would put Stamblade to tier A and MagDK to tier B
    I hate you Isshin
  • del9
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    Magwarden god tier

    drop magsorc to mid tier, below MagPLar

    Magplars can pump out high damage and healing and have the strongest execute in the game right now. They are a force, much like magwarden but without permafrost or shalks


    NB trash tier
    PCNA

  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    A Tier: Healers
    B Tier: Magdk, StamDK
    C Tier: Magplar
    D Tier: Stamblade, Stamden/Magden
    E Tier: Magsorc
    F Tier: Magblade

    I don't really know the difference between stamdens and magdens tbh. They seem to perform about just as well.
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