Using dagger/sword for staff alternate appearance.

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Tapio75
Tapio75
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Hello. Idea generated.

I was wondering, that due my dislike of carrying a flagpole with me everywhere, it would be great to use dagger or sword instead to channel that staff magicka.

Swords and daggers are traditionally been used as a channeling tool in various pagan religions. Not really as a weapon, but more like a channeling tool. This sort of alternate tool to channel magick even as a weapon, would fit TES setting with sham,anistic and other various entities using magick around Tamriel, or at least i think so.

Gaving dagger or a sword to alternate appearance for staff at outfit stations would give much needed extra customization we need as well. It would morph the staff to one handed sword or dagger carried on a belt or 2 handed sword carried on the back(Whicjh would not be my choice but each its own). That weapon would be then used in animations instead of staves. Regarding 2 handed swords, they would not need any new animation. The staff animation would work perfectly with swords. There was a bug that did this with axes. It is more of a character side animation attached to certain point of weapon model rather than the weapon actually having much impact there exept the point where the magich is cast. The animations would work for daggers and 1h swords as well, but the projecties would be sent away from weapon.. From wrong point so to say.. I think healing staff and lightning staff animations would work best with these weapons.

It could be pretty easily done. If one wants the projectiles to be sent from right point of weapon, it would require some extra work, but i would not mind it as it would be hard to notice in battle anyway. Just would be nice to carry a dagger instead of staff as a magblade for example to channel that magick, as some skills NB has, have that dagger added to the animation allready. Would fit and the other possibilities are endless (Some limitations on choice of spells occur :D).
>>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<
  • bluebird
    bluebird
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    ... What :neutral:

    You want to make a ranged weapon that shoots fire balls or channels arced lightning or whatever to look like a blade? In what world would you not need new animations with swords? Just project an elemental pulse from the tip of your outstretched sword? Just wave two daggers around and put a path of fire on the ground? :lol:

    Weapons in ESO aren't just statsticks for casters like in other games, many essential abilties use weapon skills, and the animations absolutely do require you to have the proper weapon type. Not to mention the importance of light and heavy attacks... in before we see casters standing on hills cutting the air in front of them and damaging you...
  • Tapio75
    Tapio75
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    Yes they are, but staff animations are generally pretty.. General so they would work as it is, not perfectly ofcourse, but they would still work. Especially any two handed weapon would work with any other two handed weapon.

    For example i had this bug in beginning of outfit system.. I actually requested it as an option to make 2 handed weapon look like staff, as it just happened the bug kept the staff appearance when changing to off bar with axe equipped there. I would just use the staff with 2 handed skill line animations including heavy and light attacks. When i looked at it, oit was more about the position wjhere the character holds the weapon rather than weapon having any own animation. its the skills that use the animations and they work with whatever you held or did not held at hand as long as the grip position was proper.

    This would cause the problem with 1 handed weapons since they are held from different point. Some adjustments would have to be made at least.

    No dualwielding here. Just other hand in use which would be the hand that held the staff, but now it would hold the dagger/sword. Besides, for skilled people working at the animation department, it would not be that hard to do. They dont seem to have that much work there right now anyways ;)

    I have looked at thestaff animations and if one uses lightning or healing staff animations as animations for heavy or light attack, it would be perfect for sword/dagger. For 2 handed sword, the Fire/ice staff animations for heavy and light would work perfectly. I have a hunch, that 2 handed swords would require litle work. Mostly those that have staff strung to the ground would require some other animations.. I allready have a vision of character dramatically striking the weapon to the ground with elemental blockade and such.. These would need new animations. I
    >>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<
  • commdt
    commdt
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    I already imagine a man crushing skulls with his bow.

    No and no. I use different weapons for different specs and I like to save looks for each of them. So I run with say sword and shield, wich I like to look particularly like sword and shield and thn i put on my staff in that same slot and I want it to look exactly like a staff
    Rawr
  • HappyLittleTree
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    I had a bug once were i had my inferno staff equipped backbar and sword/shield front and when i switched it stayed on the sword/shield but the animation was still playing for inferno it looked so awesome!
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  • Tapio75
    Tapio75
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    commdt wrote: »
    I already imagine a man crushing skulls with his bow.

    No and no. I use different weapons for different specs and I like to save looks for each of them. So I run with say sword and shield, wich I like to look particularly like sword and shield and thn i put on my staff in that same slot and I want it to look exactly like a staff

    As usual, someone always goes from the ideas that would work in to sillyness of having options that would not work or make sense like.. ahem, bow? no way never. There is a reason i wont suggest mauls or axes to be used as channeling tools, as they would not make sense. Channeling tool traditionally has been some sort of staff or a double edged blade.

    Besides other people having options to look like they wish does not prevent you from looking how you want to look. More options does not mean people who dont want to use them, are forced in to using them.
    >>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<
  • Tapio75
    Tapio75
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    I had a bug once were i had my inferno staff equipped backbar and sword/shield front and when i switched it stayed on the sword/shield but the animation was still playing for inferno it looked so awesome!

    I had this other way around :)

    I had a staff and a 2h axe equipped. When i swapped to the axe, the staff was still on my hand and it never changed to look like axe as it was supposed to be.

    The 2h weapon animations with staff looked awesome as well.. It finally felt like that when i ran out of magicka, my mage had to start using the staff as a bo-stick.. Well, dizzying swinf was funny with staff.. Must be sturdy wood that staff or a very skilled martial arts mage :D

    Still. There are these bugs that happen and look awesome, and theyt should be as an option to be used.

    I would find it much more plausible to just keep using that staff as a mage as a melee weapon instead of poofing that 2 hander out of nowhere and poofing that staff to some nowhere place..
    >>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<
  • commdt
    commdt
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    Tapio75 wrote: »

    As usual, someone always goes from the ideas that would work in to sillyness of having options that would not work or make sense like.. ahem, bow? no way never. There is a reason i wont suggest mauls or axes to be used as channeling tools, as they would not make sense. Channeling tool traditionally has been some sort of staff or a double edged blade.

    Besides other people having options to look like they wish does not prevent you from looking how you want to look. More options does not mean people who dont want to use them, are forced in to using them.

    The point is I would like my staff to look exactly like staff, despite I have styles for 1H, 2H and other weapon styles set too
    Rawr
  • Tapio75
    Tapio75
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    commdt wrote: »

    The point is I would like my staff to look exactly like staff, despite I have styles for 1H, 2H and other weapon styles set too

    What prevents you having those looks you want for your characters, if other have other chpoices to widen the choices of how the character looks and who the character is? I like it that we have some use for staves here, it really is lovely .. But generally TES did not really even need any weapon to channel magicka before ESO came along. I would like to have nmy mages without staff floating on their backs or in general, not have these things that look silly.

    More choices just widen the range of what people can use and having some options beside s 2 hander floating in the back, would be win win for me as long as it does not go too long way to make silly or non rational options available

    People have been asking for wands. I guess that could work too, but i would rather have an Athame or no weapon at all on my mages.
    >>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    Great idea, i was testing DK hybrid recently with Moonhunter staff / 2H sword for execute and at some point of intensive bar switching got that bug where weapons appearance mismatch. It was so fun to throw fireballs with katana :D
    p0kqfQZ.jpg
  • bluebird
    bluebird
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    Tapio75 wrote: »

    What prevents you having those looks you want for your characters, if other have other chpoices to widen the choices of how the character looks and who the character is? I like it that we have some use for staves here, it really is lovely .. But generally TES did not really even need any weapon to channel magicka before ESO came along. I would like to have nmy mages without staff floating on their backs or in general, not have these things that look silly.

    More choices just widen the range of what people can use and having some options beside s 2 hander floating in the back, would be win win for me as long as it does not go too long way to make silly or non rational options available

    People have been asking for wands. I guess that could work too, but i would rather have an Athame or no weapon at all on my mages.
    What you're asking is what's silly. :tongue: There is a difference between wanting the ability to cast spells without weapons, and wanting to cast spells with swords which is what you have been suggesting. As others pointed out it would be ridiculous for a sword to produce the light or heavy attacks of a staff. It would also look ridiculous to allow a onehander in your offhand along with a staff, you need both hands on your staff for blocking, and your 'free' hand during staff animation has a set position and movement too, so sticking a sword in it would just make that weapon flail along spastically and clip through your body and staff during those movements.

    You can already channel magicka without weapons, look at your class abilities. But the destruction staff attacks need *surprise surprise* a staff :smiley:
  • mxxo
    mxxo
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    I heal you with my Axe :p

    Dwemer-Voidsteel-Battle-Axe.png
  • Beardimus
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    We had this with MagDW which was an epic playstyle. Patch after patch ZOS slowly killed that off and staves becoming 2 set pieces was the final nail in the coffin

    I hate having to be a wizard with wands. So I understand what you mean, with outfits etc - but i'd prefer a non staff option with funciton, like MagDW had (good damage)

    when the Crown store gauntlets came out - fire, shock, ice I hoped they would add function - ie work as their correspnding staff passives / abilities etc but from the gloves but no, just a cosmetic.
    Xbox One | EU | EP
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  • myskyrim26
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    An interesting idea as some 2H weapons really look cool, but we can never use them playing magicka characters
  • Tapio75
    Tapio75
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    bluebird wrote: »
    What you're asking is what's silly. :tongue: There is a difference between wanting the ability to cast spells without weapons, and wanting to cast spells with swords which is what you have been suggesting. As others pointed out it would be ridiculous for a sword to produce the light or heavy attacks of a staff. It would also look ridiculous to allow a onehander in your offhand along with a staff, you need both hands on your staff for blocking, and your 'free' hand during staff animation has a set position and movement too, so sticking a sword in it would just make that weapon flail along spastically and clip through your body and staff during those movements.

    You can already channel magicka without weapons, look at your class abilities. But the destruction staff attacks need *surprise surprise* a staff :smiley:

    Using an athame, a dagger or a sword as a tool to channel magicka is as ridiciculous as using staff for it. All three tools have been used by many pagan religions through the time for various magick channeling purposes in real life (Superstition or not is not a factor in this topic).

    Staves and swords are not really that practical in that purpose, as they are big and clumsy. Dagger in the other hand is small and easily carried everywhere. In terms of what is best used and what looks most epic may not go hand in hand. Gandalf like staves look cool and all, but in truth they would not be that practical, but it is fantasy world so why not.

    Why daggers and swords can be used to channel magick? Both have that pointy end of the blade, which is exellent for channeling magick precisely where it should be channeled. Both are typically good conducting metal, that some believe can help with channeling energies or mahick.
    >>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<
  • HappyLittleTree
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    Also this when you preview monster sets while holding a staff:

    51652252_2175500909139122_5512750627911892992_n.png?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent-ams3-1.xx&oh=a81f5fba2cbc358f4228426130cd709b&oe=5CEADA8B

    look at it...LOOK AT IT
    Thuu chakkuth lod Hajhiit c’oo? Hajhiit gortsuquth gorihuth thuu gooluthduj thdeitoluu!

    XBox-EU
  • bluebird
    bluebird
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    Tapio75 wrote: »

    Using an athame, a dagger or a sword as a tool to channel magicka is as ridiciculous as using staff for it. All three tools have been used by many pagan religions through the time for various magick channeling purposes in real life (Superstition or not is not a factor in this topic).

    Staves and swords are not really that practical in that purpose, as they are big and clumsy. Dagger in the other hand is small and easily carried everywhere. In terms of what is best used and what looks most epic may not go hand in hand. Gandalf like staves look cool and all, but in truth they would not be that practical, but it is fantasy world so why not.

    Why daggers and swords can be used to channel magick? Both have that pointy end of the blade, which is exellent for channeling magick precisely where it should be channeled. Both are typically good conducting metal, that some believe can help with channeling energies or mahick.
    What pagan religions and real life chanelling involves has nothing to do with ingame animations. If you design a game with spells and casting daggers to reflect to Wicca fantasy, great, but ESO doesn't work that way and never has.

    You don't need a weapon, nor do you use a weapon for class spells, you just use your hands or magic-spears or whatever, similarly to how other Elder Scrolls titles used our characters' hands to channel spells. You can unequip your weapon and just cast class spells in ESO already, you'll just lose out on staff specific skills like blockade or pulse.

    You can even equip a dagger and cast your class spells, if you can manage without using light attacks inbetween your spells. Or you can be a close-range caster and use melee light attacks between your class abilities, you just won't be able to regen magicka from your staff heavy attacks.

    If you'd be trying to get them to allow us unarmed spellcasting, I'd even be with you. It would be in line with the game's lore and already existing animations to let us sling magical projectiles instead of using staves to LA/HA (Sorc's Overload and Psijic's Mend Wounds skills aleady do that to an exitent). But using daggers to cast staff spells, and pointing a blade to shoot magic lightattack projectiles would look silly. You're trying to change a nonexistent completely made up magical system that works (ESO) to be like the rules of some other nonexistent completely made up magical system (paganism) that doesn't work with the game's system nor has any lore or mechanic justification to be introduced into the game.
  • Tapio75
    Tapio75
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    Staff skill animations and heavy/light attacks allready work with many weapons. It does not matter what weapon you have, the animation allways play as shown by few awesome bugs. Only real need for new animations would be for elemental blockade, as that does not look right with current animations.

    I feel sorry for you, if you have not encountered these awesome bugs that show this is allready possible by accident. All that has to be done is few tweaks and make it happen on purpose.

    Try to decide aree you against this because you dont think it looks right or because you think it needs work. Besides work is good, it brings bread to the table of animators ;)ancer will be the same.

    Lore in ESO is funny thing though.. Anything is in lore if it sells in crown store.
    >>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<
  • bluebird
    bluebird
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    Tapio75 wrote: »
    Staff skill animations and heavy/light attacks allready work with many weapons. It does not matter what weapon you have, the animation allways play as shown by few awesome bugs. Only real need for new animations would be for elemental blockade, as that does not look right with current animations.

    I feel sorry for you, if you have not encountered these awesome bugs that show this is allready possible by accident. All that has to be done is few tweaks and make it happen on purpose.

    Try to decide aree you against this because you dont think it looks right or because you think it needs work. Besides work is good, it brings bread to the table of animators ;)ancer will be the same.

    Lore in ESO is funny thing though.. Anything is in lore if it sells in crown store.
    You can also ride a horse by running on its back in this game, what's your point? :lol: Bugged animations are one thing, they are clearly not intended and they are hardly awesome, they look ridiculous. Same with the staff + offhand preview bug someone else linked, you can't block with a shield and staff because the animations are different and one of those would clip into the other. I do get bugs where my weapons disappear and I'm bladespinning with empty hands and the enchantment glows under my feet, and its equally ridiculous.

    It's not just Blockade, shooting a Force Pulse out of a dagger looks nonsensical, Destrucitve Touch would also look ridiculous if you just waved a dagger in front of your face, holding up a metal dagger so that it radiates Regeneration beams to your allies looks baffling, pointing a sword at a mob and starting to do the resto HA drain would look totally out of place.

    Can Elder Scrolls casters channel magic through their hands? Yes. Do magical staves conduct magic or channel projectiles? Yes. Do blades or any other type of melee weapon conduct magic or channel projectiles? No. I'm against it because it's not right for the lore and the looks, not because it needs work. Not to mention more work is not actually good because it would waste ZOS's efforts and resources on redesigning already existing animation systems (essentially adding nothing new) for no effect other than to visually please a few people who want to roleplay with laser-shooting swords.

    Encourage devs to add more magical weapon skill lines like and deliver some fresh content, sure, or ask them to add new magical skills that use your hands like Mend Wounds, sure. But don't ask that they spend development time, resources and effort to create alternative animations for already existing skills just to enable a bugged weapon animation combo that would make no sense in ESO's lore and systems :smiley:
  • idk
    idk
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    The issue would be the sword or dagger would have different visual queues than if it were a staff. Doing force pulse with one would look different than doing force pulse with a stave. That would be more than Zos should tolerate within their game since we do have two different PvP activities.

    I would expect this is the reason the outfit system does not permit having the appearance of a swords when it is a staff that is being carried.
  • MakoFore
    MakoFore
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    great idea and make staffs look like daggers too- so we could stab with a pole
  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
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    Hardly a new idea and still completely unnecessary.

    If you want the look, wield the weapons.
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

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  • richo262
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    Do a heavy attack with 1hd weapons, swing at the air, make a groan noise, then poof, a fireball launches. Would look stupid.

    They'd need to redo animations, not worth it.

    Not only that, with cosmetics in PVP you can no longer tell the characters composition in armor, you only have the weapon they hold to tell you what to expect (prior to them actually attacking you).

    If you see 1HD / 2HD / S&B you can expect them to melee (and if you are ranged, kite)
    If you see a Staff, you will know they will stay at range (and if you are melee, gap close)
  • Tapio75
    Tapio75
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    Staves need alternatives for staff skill line. There are no alternatives currently to replace that flagpole on our backs with something more practical and i am sure, a dagger or a sword on the belt would look much better and much more practical than that huge staff. People have been asking for wands, but i dont really like the idea but why not. It does not bother me what others wear or do not wear. I am only bothered by what my own character looks like.

    Naturally we could imagine making some sort of runestones as a weapon which would be "two handed", a rune in both hands for each staff type.. But that would still have the weapon and even if hidden, would need more work than this idea. There are some class skills that could be used for various unarmed spells, but still most of them could also be used for animations needed to make dagger or sword look better while casting staff abilities.

    It really amazes me though, how concerned people seem to be of what others can do while they play, even if they can just keep going as they allready did before. Most important is for everyone to have good time and as much fun and immersion as possible, but in reasonable amounts in all directions naturally, as we are not playing in a single player emviron,ment. Yes, this is within reasonable limits and nothing can change me think otherwise. Sorry :) Teel free to generate ideas about unar,med casting which can be done with as litle work as this one. I can imagine how it can be done and i can imagine the same counterarguments against it, but i would not use them.
    >>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<
  • bluebird
    bluebird
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    Tapio75 wrote: »
    Staves need alternatives for staff skill line. There are no alternatives currently to replace that flagpole on our backs with something more practical and i am sure, a dagger or a sword on the belt would look much better and much more practical than that huge staff. People have been asking for wands, but i dont really like the idea but why not. It does not bother me what others wear or do not wear. I am only bothered by what my own character looks like.

    Naturally we could imagine making some sort of runestones as a weapon which would be "two handed", a rune in both hands for each staff type.. But that would still have the weapon and even if hidden, would need more work than this idea. There are some class skills that could be used for various unarmed spells, but still most of them could also be used for animations needed to make dagger or sword look better while casting staff abilities.

    It really amazes me though, how concerned people seem to be of what others can do while they play, even if they can just keep going as they allready did before. Most important is for everyone to have good time and as much fun and immersion as possible, but in reasonable amounts in all directions naturally, as we are not playing in a single player emviron,ment. Yes, this is within reasonable limits and nothing can change me think otherwise. Sorry :) Teel free to generate ideas about unar,med casting which can be done with as litle work as this one. I can imagine how it can be done and i can imagine the same counterarguments against it, but i would not use them.
    You are of course free to make requests, I was merely pointing out that you're wasting your and the developers' time and resources for incredibly niche visual demands that don't even make sense, since slinging balls of fire from the tip of a dagger and channeling an arc of lightning by pointing a sword at a mob is ridiculous (staves are far more practical than daggers for spellcasting despite your assertions) and out of place in ESO, doesn't matter if you refuse to change your mind about it or not.

    That's why I'm opposing this, not because what you do will affect me in some way (although fighting alongside casters that stands meters away and shoot frostbolts by slashing the air with a dagger would break my immersion and diminish the game's connection to ESO's lore), but because it would divert dev resources from more interesting future content to instead tailor an already existing and working system to your personal fantasy. Using daggers and swords would also dilute and diminish the unique identity of weapons, which with their exclusive weapon skill lines form an essential part of ESO.

    If given the choice, would the playerbase ask devs to redesign staff skills to be usable with daggers? Or would they ask the devs to introduce a new weapon type with its own unique skill line? Would they ask devs to allow us to sling and channel staff light and heavy attacks with a sword, or would they prefer that they create a wider support and use of unarmed spellcasting that already exists ingame and in previous TES games and lore? Would dual-wielding dps be happy that others can co-opt the visual identity of their melee weapons while they gain nothing and other weapons remain exclusive? Would players like devs to spend their time overhauling animations that already work as intented just to accomodate weapons they were never intended for, instead of fixing actual bugs or producing fresh future content? I mean everone can dream of course, I just tried to give some reasonable considerations as to why it would be impractical and unhelpful for the game, and why your spell hopes could be directed towards a more realistic goal.
  • Tapio75
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    Gual wielders have two daggers, someone channeling ,magick with sword or dagger only wields one. Also it happens without a shield, so the visual identities stay and instead, bring some use two wirelding just one weapon, as currently we dont really have any use for wielding 1 one handed weapon exept for looks and couple of heavy attacks. You also see much work where litle work in reality exists. Both things allready exist in the game. Your unarmed casting and my casting while wearing a dagger. Some tweaks are required for both to be visually pleasing.

    I would prefer unarmed casting and have a skill line for one one handed weapon, but thats not going to happen very easily as people have been asking for it since launch. Same with unarmed casting which might have been a part of spellcraftin which also, is now paused indefinitely.

    And really. What work that art and animation team currently has? I dont see them doing anything but reusing allready existing stuff with recolored visuals. Much the same with mounts and stuff, mostly recolors and refurvishing of existing material. Last tiome, i have seen new animations added, was when they redid the weapon animations, and that was years ago.

    Slashing air with dagger is the same as slashing air with wooden stick.

    Neither of those is less or more silly to me. Might be that dagger or a sword would start to look silly too over time. Cant now since cant try it, but for me it would still be less silly than weapon floating on ones back. Besides i would rather carry all of those 2 handed weapons on hand instead of floating them on my back. Much more playsible and also more practical.. Just hang a big woodchopping axe on your back like we have them in ESO, and see how fast you can get it out without injuring yourself.. Yea, one would die before getting that weapon from back.

    I would also like to have an option to show both weapon slots. This also happened by a bug near launch and it looked as great as "Armed to the teeth" mod in Skyrim and Fallout. I tried to suggest it as an option too, but people then proceed to say it should noy happen since there would be clipping problems.. Yea. with some weapons yes but AS AN OPTION for crying out loud. Some were just too busy trying to ruin someone elses idea instead of trying to think it as an OPTION for those who want it for the weapons that do not clip. Besides the armors have much more serious clipping issues and floating issues even if using same syle for all.
    Edited by Tapio75 on February 4, 2019 3:44PM
    >>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<
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