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[Suggestion] Changes to MOL sets (Detailed)
commdt
✭✭✭✭
You said that you want detailed analyzed suggestions, so here they are. For start lets talk MOL, as those sets have a good potential but it is just not developed.
The main point of these sets is based around synergies. So for them to have meaning and to be wanted they must be really powerful but only in well organized raid groups with consistent synergies, in static encounter too, and they must be underpowered in dungeons or PUG raids or dynamic battles for other sets to take their place there. Like you know Siroria is very powerful in static fights, but is not reliable in say vAS HM where other sets like Mother Sorrow or BSW take their places.
So what is wrong with them now? First, you need too realize that the only synergies DD and Healers can consistently get are Orbs and they get them like once in 20 seconds, and again only in good raids. For healers and Ranged DDs it is especially limited. So in that regards DD sets must give like 30 seconds buff to be somewhat consistent. Tanks on the other hand get more synergies generally, so once in 10 seconds is affordable for them. Now lets look at the sets:
Moondancer - is the most close to good set, because it gives 30 seconds buff, which can be uptimed close to 100% in good groups in static battles. The reason it sees exactly 0 use is low power of its buff and its randomness. Its damage bonus is too low compared to say Siroria or Spell strategist (and spell strategist can be utimed in any encounter, not only static one), but what is even worse it has a chance to proc on mana regen, which is generally useles in such groups where sustain is already counted and sufficient. So suggestion here would be to buff its spell damage bonus and remove mana regen at all. Or replace it with something completely different
Alcosh - The most broken one. It is supposed to be a DD set but it just cannot be used on DD due to very short duration of its buff which DD just could not sustain, so it is used on tanks instead. But it is not the only problem, the main problem is it is way overpowered. Just compare to Torug pact which is used on tanks too and gives below 700 penetration against 3000 on Alcosh. And with this set players can get maximum penetration with almost 0 champion points invested. So to balance this set its penetration should be lowered to like 1000 and effect itself should be probably moved to another set like Lunar bastion.
If it needs to be a DD set, debuff duration should go up to 30 seconds in both penetration and dot. In the same time dot must be buffed to be more in line with other dot sets like Relequin to even make sence and it shouldnt stack (as if you dont know dot from this set stacks with itself) as it can go out of control, but refresh itself with each cast. For penetration part it should also refresh itself to be more consistent, because now you cant put another debuff until the first one goes off. In that state it could be used on a stam DD and even encourage raids to take stam DDs with them, but again players would generally use it on a tank anyway. So it is better to buff the dot part (with 30 sec duration) and move penetration part to another set.
Lunar bastion - As one fellow tank said about defence sets in general "first question: whats wrong with a group which needs this set?". I will be more tolerant and say that defence sets could be useful for some weak groups or for more safe encounters but with one particular condition: they ahould be absolutely consistent. And what do we have here? 8 meters, seriously? I can hardly imagine any encounter where this 8 meters can cover any significant part a group. Just compare to Ebon, which gives permanent +1k in 28 meters radius. With consistent synergies this 2400 shields could be good but only if they have the same 28 meters radius. But then again in weak groups we wouldnt get consistent synergies, and strong groups hardly need extra defense. Not sure that you should move penetration from Alcosh here as it wont reflect its name. So I dont have a perfect suggestion for this set but with 28 meters radius I can see at least some options
Twilight remedy - This set should probably be completely reworked. Because minor force is very important buff and any DD would rather use Acceleration / Trap to have a good uptime. Minor berserk is also not an option so while it is not consistent from combat prayer, from this set it would be even dramatically lower. And again it is impossible to have a consistent uptime on this set even if a healer would throw 6 Orbs once in a 20 seconds, you wouldnt be able to have the buff enable on all DDs with say 2 healers. And definitely not with 10 sec duration.
I also wouldnt want to change proc conditions as they are interesting and different from other sets, but for this set to be consistently useful it should rather give some debuff on DDs target. Honestly I would move penetration debuff from alcosh here. So when a DD use your synergy they put a -1000 resistance debuff on his target. That would make an interesting decision. This or change buff to minor berserk and make it apply in radius or to all group members. In either case the set could see use
The main point of these sets is based around synergies. So for them to have meaning and to be wanted they must be really powerful but only in well organized raid groups with consistent synergies, in static encounter too, and they must be underpowered in dungeons or PUG raids or dynamic battles for other sets to take their place there. Like you know Siroria is very powerful in static fights, but is not reliable in say vAS HM where other sets like Mother Sorrow or BSW take their places.
So what is wrong with them now? First, you need too realize that the only synergies DD and Healers can consistently get are Orbs and they get them like once in 20 seconds, and again only in good raids. For healers and Ranged DDs it is especially limited. So in that regards DD sets must give like 30 seconds buff to be somewhat consistent. Tanks on the other hand get more synergies generally, so once in 10 seconds is affordable for them. Now lets look at the sets:
Moondancer - is the most close to good set, because it gives 30 seconds buff, which can be uptimed close to 100% in good groups in static battles. The reason it sees exactly 0 use is low power of its buff and its randomness. Its damage bonus is too low compared to say Siroria or Spell strategist (and spell strategist can be utimed in any encounter, not only static one), but what is even worse it has a chance to proc on mana regen, which is generally useles in such groups where sustain is already counted and sufficient. So suggestion here would be to buff its spell damage bonus and remove mana regen at all. Or replace it with something completely different
Alcosh - The most broken one. It is supposed to be a DD set but it just cannot be used on DD due to very short duration of its buff which DD just could not sustain, so it is used on tanks instead. But it is not the only problem, the main problem is it is way overpowered. Just compare to Torug pact which is used on tanks too and gives below 700 penetration against 3000 on Alcosh. And with this set players can get maximum penetration with almost 0 champion points invested. So to balance this set its penetration should be lowered to like 1000 and effect itself should be probably moved to another set like Lunar bastion.
If it needs to be a DD set, debuff duration should go up to 30 seconds in both penetration and dot. In the same time dot must be buffed to be more in line with other dot sets like Relequin to even make sence and it shouldnt stack (as if you dont know dot from this set stacks with itself) as it can go out of control, but refresh itself with each cast. For penetration part it should also refresh itself to be more consistent, because now you cant put another debuff until the first one goes off. In that state it could be used on a stam DD and even encourage raids to take stam DDs with them, but again players would generally use it on a tank anyway. So it is better to buff the dot part (with 30 sec duration) and move penetration part to another set.
Lunar bastion - As one fellow tank said about defence sets in general "first question: whats wrong with a group which needs this set?". I will be more tolerant and say that defence sets could be useful for some weak groups or for more safe encounters but with one particular condition: they ahould be absolutely consistent. And what do we have here? 8 meters, seriously? I can hardly imagine any encounter where this 8 meters can cover any significant part a group. Just compare to Ebon, which gives permanent +1k in 28 meters radius. With consistent synergies this 2400 shields could be good but only if they have the same 28 meters radius. But then again in weak groups we wouldnt get consistent synergies, and strong groups hardly need extra defense. Not sure that you should move penetration from Alcosh here as it wont reflect its name. So I dont have a perfect suggestion for this set but with 28 meters radius I can see at least some options
Twilight remedy - This set should probably be completely reworked. Because minor force is very important buff and any DD would rather use Acceleration / Trap to have a good uptime. Minor berserk is also not an option so while it is not consistent from combat prayer, from this set it would be even dramatically lower. And again it is impossible to have a consistent uptime on this set even if a healer would throw 6 Orbs once in a 20 seconds, you wouldnt be able to have the buff enable on all DDs with say 2 healers. And definitely not with 10 sec duration.
I also wouldnt want to change proc conditions as they are interesting and different from other sets, but for this set to be consistently useful it should rather give some debuff on DDs target. Honestly I would move penetration debuff from alcosh here. So when a DD use your synergy they put a -1000 resistance debuff on his target. That would make an interesting decision. This or change buff to minor berserk and make it apply in radius or to all group members. In either case the set could see use
Rawr
2
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MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Analysis looks interesting but you know ZOS - old sets are revisited only if they are somehow over-performing in PVP. Since trial sets are dungeon/arena/trial oriented, so i doubt that any serious pvp-er uses them and chance for a change is minimal.
And you know what will happen if ZOS will touch (nerf) alkosh - all new high score runs will be in bad position to old ones..0 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Moondancer is one of the most underrated sets. With orbs every 20-30s you can keep 100% uptime on one of the 2 blessings, averaging 224 Spell Damage and 224 Magicka Regen. In addition to that, it has Minor Slayer on the 3 pc, which is worth roughly 100 Spell Damage more than a typical 3 pc bonus.
Comparing that to something like Burning Spellweave, even with a high estimate of 60% uptime only gives 315 Spell Damage vs Moondancer’s effective 324. Additionally, the 224 Regen from Moondancer allows for building more damage in other areas, like a Flame or Berserker glyph instead of Absorb Magic, or possibly Blue Bi-Stat food instead of recovery food.
Moondancer is only a bad set if you’re starved for synergies and cannot keep good uptime. Or if it’s a stationary fight, where Siroria is certainly better.
As for Alkosh, I’m not sure why you would want to take away one of the few sources left to debuff resistances (RIP Sunderflame and Night Mother’s). The main reason tanks began using this is because they have access to the most synergies. If the debuff lasted longer, and the damage done by the set could crit, it might see use on a stamina DPS again. Reducing its value would just be a massive nerf to stamina DPS in trials. They’re already forced to use the Lover stone or a set like Two Fang it Spriggans, giving up their Mundus because Medium Armor does not offer any physical penetration. Without Alkosh, every stamina DPS would be forced into using both a Mundus Stone and a 5 pc set to get good damage.
Lunar bastion is pretty bad, and I’d welcome any change there, especially if it provided any type of group buff.
Twilight Remedy is also pretty outdated now that everyone uses Accrleration or Trap. It might be worth using if it gave a 30s buff like Moondancer, where everyone could stop slotting and casting Channeled Accel every 30s. A different buff might also make it more viable, like maybe 5s of Major Slayer (would this make Architect and War Machine obsolete?) or 3s of Major Berserk (would this make Sorcerer even less desirable in trials?).0 -
commdt✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »As for Alkosh, I’m not sure why you would want to take away one of the few sources left to debuff resistances (RIP Sunderflame and Night Mother’s). The main reason tanks began using this is because they have access to the most synergies. If the debuff lasted longer, and the damage done by the set could crit, it might see use on a stamina DPS again. Reducing its value would just be a massive nerf to stamina DPS in trials. They’re already forced to use the Lover stone or a set like Two Fang it Spriggans, giving up their Mundus because Medium Armor does not offer any physical penetration. Without Alkosh, every stamina DPS would be forced into using both a Mundus Stone and a 5 pc set to get good damage.
Damn you are right, i completely forgot that there is such thing as stamina DD. So here is a perfect desicion for this set:
30 sec duration, and debuff changed so it is lowering just physical penetration. So the first point here is that this set is needed only if you bring some stamina DD, so he could also use this set himself while tank would be better off buffing the whole group in a different way. In the same time its damage should be buffed to at least 1/2 of Relequen (2000 damage per second) and shouldnt stack with itself. So this set would be brilliant to somehow even mana and stamina in terms of penetration as mana already has too muchRawr0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »As for Alkosh, I’m not sure why you would want to take away one of the few sources left to debuff resistances (RIP Sunderflame and Night Mother’s). The main reason tanks began using this is because they have access to the most synergies. If the debuff lasted longer, and the damage done by the set could crit, it might see use on a stamina DPS again. Reducing its value would just be a massive nerf to stamina DPS in trials. They’re already forced to use the Lover stone or a set like Two Fang it Spriggans, giving up their Mundus because Medium Armor does not offer any physical penetration. Without Alkosh, every stamina DPS would be forced into using both a Mundus Stone and a 5 pc set to get good damage.
Damn you are right, i completely forgot that there is such thing as stamina DD. So here is a perfect desicion for this set:
30 sec duration, and debuff changed so it is lowering just physical penetration. So the first point here is that this set is needed only if you bring some stamina DD, so he could also use this set himself while tank would be better off buffing the whole group in a different way. In the same time its damage should be buffed to at least 1/2 of Relequen (2000 damage per second) and shouldnt stack with itself. So this set would be brilliant to somehow even mana and stamina in terms of penetration as mana already has too much
With the abundance of magicka in trials nowadays, tanks will simply stop running Alkosh, since in most cases for half the group or more its effect will be useless. So, the real outcome: stamina will have just lost another 3k penetration across the board.2 -
Kikke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why do people hate on alkosh? I've used this set on my stamplar for years now... it's awesome, no change needed.Cleared Trials:
- vAA HM - vHRC HM - vSO HM - vMoL HM - vHoF HM - vAS HM - vCR HM -
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and a lot of bitching."
-Someone said it, I guess.0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »As for Alkosh, I’m not sure why you would want to take away one of the few sources left to debuff resistances (RIP Sunderflame and Night Mother’s). The main reason tanks began using this is because they have access to the most synergies. If the debuff lasted longer, and the damage done by the set could crit, it might see use on a stamina DPS again. Reducing its value would just be a massive nerf to stamina DPS in trials. They’re already forced to use the Lover stone or a set like Two Fang it Spriggans, giving up their Mundus because Medium Armor does not offer any physical penetration. Without Alkosh, every stamina DPS would be forced into using both a Mundus Stone and a 5 pc set to get good damage.
Damn you are right, i completely forgot that there is such thing as stamina DD. So here is a perfect desicion for this set:
30 sec duration, and debuff changed so it is lowering just physical penetration. So the first point here is that this set is needed only if you bring some stamina DD, so he could also use this set himself while tank would be better off buffing the whole group in a different way. In the same time its damage should be buffed to at least 1/2 of Relequen (2000 damage per second) and shouldnt stack with itself. So this set would be brilliant to somehow even mana and stamina in terms of penetration as mana already has too much
With the abundance of magicka in trials nowadays, tanks will simply stop running Alkosh, since in most cases for half the group or more its effect will be useless. So, the real outcome: stamina will have just lost another 3k penetration across the board.
Use a mace to penetrate more?0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO , mace actually might be viable, it's a bit underrated, especially for solo content - mostly because people think that their own penetration is subtracted from target's resistance before the mace's bonus applies (and it's not so). But maces won't compensate for lack of penetration since they're more or less of balanced with other weapons - by using mace, have to sacrifice crit from dagger of bleed from axe, that penetration boost doesn't come for free. Alkosh is useful because only one member of the group has to make a sacrifice by wearing it for everyone else's benefit.0 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »As for Alkosh, I’m not sure why you would want to take away one of the few sources left to debuff resistances (RIP Sunderflame and Night Mother’s). The main reason tanks began using this is because they have access to the most synergies. If the debuff lasted longer, and the damage done by the set could crit, it might see use on a stamina DPS again. Reducing its value would just be a massive nerf to stamina DPS in trials. They’re already forced to use the Lover stone or a set like Two Fang it Spriggans, giving up their Mundus because Medium Armor does not offer any physical penetration. Without Alkosh, every stamina DPS would be forced into using both a Mundus Stone and a 5 pc set to get good damage.
Damn you are right, i completely forgot that there is such thing as stamina DD. So here is a perfect desicion for this set:
30 sec duration, and debuff changed so it is lowering just physical penetration. So the first point here is that this set is needed only if you bring some stamina DD, so he could also use this set himself while tank would be better off buffing the whole group in a different way. In the same time its damage should be buffed to at least 1/2 of Relequen (2000 damage per second) and shouldnt stack with itself. So this set would be brilliant to somehow even mana and stamina in terms of penetration as mana already has too much
With the abundance of magicka in trials nowadays, tanks will simply stop running Alkosh, since in most cases for half the group or more its effect will be useless. So, the real outcome: stamina will have just lost another 3k penetration across the board.
Use a mace to penetrate more?
Just Major Fracture drops the value of Maces below that Axes/Daggers/Sword for 18k bosses, so it won't help at all in PvE.0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »As for Alkosh, I’m not sure why you would want to take away one of the few sources left to debuff resistances (RIP Sunderflame and Night Mother’s). The main reason tanks began using this is because they have access to the most synergies. If the debuff lasted longer, and the damage done by the set could crit, it might see use on a stamina DPS again. Reducing its value would just be a massive nerf to stamina DPS in trials. They’re already forced to use the Lover stone or a set like Two Fang it Spriggans, giving up their Mundus because Medium Armor does not offer any physical penetration. Without Alkosh, every stamina DPS would be forced into using both a Mundus Stone and a 5 pc set to get good damage.
Damn you are right, i completely forgot that there is such thing as stamina DD. So here is a perfect desicion for this set:
30 sec duration, and debuff changed so it is lowering just physical penetration. So the first point here is that this set is needed only if you bring some stamina DD, so he could also use this set himself while tank would be better off buffing the whole group in a different way. In the same time its damage should be buffed to at least 1/2 of Relequen (2000 damage per second) and shouldnt stack with itself. So this set would be brilliant to somehow even mana and stamina in terms of penetration as mana already has too much
With the abundance of magicka in trials nowadays, tanks will simply stop running Alkosh, since in most cases for half the group or more its effect will be useless. So, the real outcome: stamina will have just lost another 3k penetration across the board.
Use a mace to penetrate more?
Just Major Fracture drops the value of Maces below that Axes/Daggers/Sword for 18k bosses, so it won't help at all in PvE.
false.0 -
Kikke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »As for Alkosh, I’m not sure why you would want to take away one of the few sources left to debuff resistances (RIP Sunderflame and Night Mother’s). The main reason tanks began using this is because they have access to the most synergies. If the debuff lasted longer, and the damage done by the set could crit, it might see use on a stamina DPS again. Reducing its value would just be a massive nerf to stamina DPS in trials. They’re already forced to use the Lover stone or a set like Two Fang it Spriggans, giving up their Mundus because Medium Armor does not offer any physical penetration. Without Alkosh, every stamina DPS would be forced into using both a Mundus Stone and a 5 pc set to get good damage.
Damn you are right, i completely forgot that there is such thing as stamina DD. So here is a perfect desicion for this set:
30 sec duration, and debuff changed so it is lowering just physical penetration. So the first point here is that this set is needed only if you bring some stamina DD, so he could also use this set himself while tank would be better off buffing the whole group in a different way. In the same time its damage should be buffed to at least 1/2 of Relequen (2000 damage per second) and shouldnt stack with itself. So this set would be brilliant to somehow even mana and stamina in terms of penetration as mana already has too much
With the abundance of magicka in trials nowadays, tanks will simply stop running Alkosh, since in most cases for half the group or more its effect will be useless. So, the real outcome: stamina will have just lost another 3k penetration across the board.
Use a mace to penetrate more?
Just Major Fracture drops the value of Maces below that Axes/Daggers/Sword for 18k bosses, so it won't help at all in PvE.
false.
false.it's common knowledge that for pen calculation you go wep trait+cp+buffs and after all this is calculated the maces % gets added. AkA useless.Cleared Trials:
- vAA HM - vHRC HM - vSO HM - vMoL HM - vHoF HM - vAS HM - vCR HM -
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and a lot of bitching."
-Someone said it, I guess.0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »As for Alkosh, I’m not sure why you would want to take away one of the few sources left to debuff resistances (RIP Sunderflame and Night Mother’s). The main reason tanks began using this is because they have access to the most synergies. If the debuff lasted longer, and the damage done by the set could crit, it might see use on a stamina DPS again. Reducing its value would just be a massive nerf to stamina DPS in trials. They’re already forced to use the Lover stone or a set like Two Fang it Spriggans, giving up their Mundus because Medium Armor does not offer any physical penetration. Without Alkosh, every stamina DPS would be forced into using both a Mundus Stone and a 5 pc set to get good damage.
Damn you are right, i completely forgot that there is such thing as stamina DD. So here is a perfect desicion for this set:
30 sec duration, and debuff changed so it is lowering just physical penetration. So the first point here is that this set is needed only if you bring some stamina DD, so he could also use this set himself while tank would be better off buffing the whole group in a different way. In the same time its damage should be buffed to at least 1/2 of Relequen (2000 damage per second) and shouldnt stack with itself. So this set would be brilliant to somehow even mana and stamina in terms of penetration as mana already has too much
With the abundance of magicka in trials nowadays, tanks will simply stop running Alkosh, since in most cases for half the group or more its effect will be useless. So, the real outcome: stamina will have just lost another 3k penetration across the board.
Use a mace to penetrate more?
Just Major Fracture drops the value of Maces below that Axes/Daggers/Sword for 18k bosses, so it won't help at all in PvE.
false.
false.it's common knowledge that for pen calculation you go wep trait+cp+buffs and after all this is calculated the maces % gets added. AkA useless.
false again.4. Armor Penetration and Mitigation
This is probably the most complex part of damage calculation, simply because the formula is a bit unintuitive. In ESO, every enemy (may it be a NPC or a player) has a resistance value. You can circumvent that resistance by using items and passives that let you "pierce" through the armor and deal higher damage to the target. So in general, you want to circumvent all armor the enemy has to deal "true" damage. This can either be achieved through own penetration, meaning all sets, buffs etc that increase your own armor penetration rating, or through debuffing the enemy, and thus reducing resistances. There are % amps and flat stats for penetration, and I will go through it in detail.
The formula looks like this:
Armor Mitigation =1-((((Target Resistance - Target Debuffs)*(1 - % Penetration ) - Penetration)/(Target.EffectiveLevel * 1000))))
So we start with 1. We start with one because the "true" damage let's us do the full damage. If we manage to achieve the full penetration, we simply do not deduct anything from 1, and therefore do the full unmitigated damage.
Then we have the target's resistance, which is 18200 in PvE for all veteran content mobs and target dummies. In PvP, it depends on how much spell or physical resitance your target has. Then we deduct all the debuffs the target has on it. There are multiple debuffs that apply to this category, such as major and minor fracture or breach (5280 and 1320, respectively), the 5- piece of roar of alkosh (3010) and the crusher weapon enchantment (which is amplifiable with torug's pact and infused and yields 1622, 2108 and 2741, respectively).
Afterwards we deduct % penetration amps, such as the Maul + Mace bonuses that ignore up to 20% of the target's resistance. The key takeaway here is that these %- amps are applied after debuffs, but not after your own penetration. This means that major and minor fracture reduce the effectiveness of mauls and maces, but sets like spriggan, twice-fanged serpent, penetration cps etc do NOT. So be aware which debuffs you have available, because if there are only few debuffs, you might even be better off with a mace over a dagger. The Break-even point between amces and daggers lies somewhere around 5000 & 6000 of penetration debuffs (which is often achieved in trials, but less in four man and solo content). I can provide statistics on this upon request.
After that, your own penetration value is deducted, so here's where most of the sets and the lover mundus belong. You might notice how penetration is mostly shown as a flat value, such as 5280 and 1320 for the major and minor debuffs. This needs to be converted into a % value so we can multiply it with the rest. That's what the denominator of the above formula is for:
The effectiveness of penetration depends on the level of the target. In PvE, enemies are considered as level 50 because they don't have CPs, so the denominator in these cases is 50000, while in PvP it is mostly 66000.
In no cp pvp, players are also considered as level 50, so here it is also 50000.
NOTE: There are some types of damage that ignore armor resistance either way, notably bleeds and oblivion damage. Both of these cannot be mitigated, so skills that indicate that they let enemies "bleed" or deal oblivion damage will always inflict their true damage value. This is mostly irrelevant for PvE, but in PvP, this is often an effective strategy against targets with high resistances.
This shows how much mitigation you have to achieve in order to reach the break-even point between a dagger and a mace.
This depends largely on the critical chance and critical damage you have. If your critical chance is low, a dagger is giving you more additional damage than in a scenario where you already have more critical chance.
Example: If you are a stamina sorcerer that has 50% critical chance before the 5% from the dagger is added, you'd be better off using a amce if your enemy with 18200 resistance has less than 7065 of debuffs on him. So in any case where that is not achieved, a mace will give you more damage than a dagger. If you have 64% critical chance prior to a dagger (if you are khajiit, use advancing yokeda or something similar), then you need 7719 of debuffs to benefit more from a dagger than a mace.
What I'm saying is that since the removal of Unique Penetration Debuffs, the border between thos weapons has been reduced significantly, since you can not obtain that amount of penetration as easily. On bosses yes, but in many trials where you are alone and Tanks will not debuff enemies enough (2nd Boss Upstairs vHoF, 4th Boss vHoF, vCR if you go in the shadow realm, vAS for protectors and minibosses etc), then you can also use a mace. Nightblades have a higher critical base chance due to their assassination passive, but also have higher critical damage.A maul will be better than a greatsword in most situations. All you'd have to change is the value from 10% to 20% and the sword bonus from 2.5% to 5%. I ran a few tests now and the value is very high, often above 10k penetration debuffs (which is very very unralistic to have).
To the second point: Because many people either don't test things or simply have no idea what they are talking about. Statements like the ones that discredited yours are simply wrong. Using alkosh as a flat 3k is simply unrealistic, you wont have a crusher enchant on everything you hit, not even talking about major and minor fracture. There are trials like vAA, alright, there it might be realistic, but in the newer trials it is simply not feasible to use that kind of math at all.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on February 4, 2019 2:46PM0 -
codestripper✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »As for Alkosh, I’m not sure why you would want to take away one of the few sources left to debuff resistances (RIP Sunderflame and Night Mother’s). The main reason tanks began using this is because they have access to the most synergies. If the debuff lasted longer, and the damage done by the set could crit, it might see use on a stamina DPS again. Reducing its value would just be a massive nerf to stamina DPS in trials. They’re already forced to use the Lover stone or a set like Two Fang it Spriggans, giving up their Mundus because Medium Armor does not offer any physical penetration. Without Alkosh, every stamina DPS would be forced into using both a Mundus Stone and a 5 pc set to get good damage.
Damn you are right, i completely forgot that there is such thing as stamina DD. So here is a perfect desicion for this set:
30 sec duration, and debuff changed so it is lowering just physical penetration. So the first point here is that this set is needed only if you bring some stamina DD, so he could also use this set himself while tank would be better off buffing the whole group in a different way. In the same time its damage should be buffed to at least 1/2 of Relequen (2000 damage per second) and shouldnt stack with itself. So this set would be brilliant to somehow even mana and stamina in terms of penetration as mana already has too much
With the abundance of magicka in trials nowadays, tanks will simply stop running Alkosh, since in most cases for half the group or more its effect will be useless. So, the real outcome: stamina will have just lost another 3k penetration across the board.
Use a mace to penetrate more?
Just Major Fracture drops the value of Maces below that Axes/Daggers/Sword for 18k bosses, so it won't help at all in PvE.
false.
false.it's common knowledge that for pen calculation you go wep trait+cp+buffs and after all this is calculated the maces % gets added. AkA useless.
false again.
Since everyone seems to be doing this,
DPS Builds:
- Magicka Sorcerer (Pet) [Flawless Conqueror @ 565CP] - 582k
- Magicka Nightblade [Flawless Conqueror @ 780CP] - 575k
- Stamina Sorcerer [Flawless Conqueror @ 420CP] - 560k
- Magicka Classless [Flawless Conqueror @ 810CP] - 540k
- Magicka Templar [Stormproof] - 550k
- Magicka Warden [Stormproof] - 510k
- Stamina Templar [In Development]
- Stamina DK [In Development]
- Stamina NB [Under 50]0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭codestripper wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »As for Alkosh, I’m not sure why you would want to take away one of the few sources left to debuff resistances (RIP Sunderflame and Night Mother’s). The main reason tanks began using this is because they have access to the most synergies. If the debuff lasted longer, and the damage done by the set could crit, it might see use on a stamina DPS again. Reducing its value would just be a massive nerf to stamina DPS in trials. They’re already forced to use the Lover stone or a set like Two Fang it Spriggans, giving up their Mundus because Medium Armor does not offer any physical penetration. Without Alkosh, every stamina DPS would be forced into using both a Mundus Stone and a 5 pc set to get good damage.
Damn you are right, i completely forgot that there is such thing as stamina DD. So here is a perfect desicion for this set:
30 sec duration, and debuff changed so it is lowering just physical penetration. So the first point here is that this set is needed only if you bring some stamina DD, so he could also use this set himself while tank would be better off buffing the whole group in a different way. In the same time its damage should be buffed to at least 1/2 of Relequen (2000 damage per second) and shouldnt stack with itself. So this set would be brilliant to somehow even mana and stamina in terms of penetration as mana already has too much
With the abundance of magicka in trials nowadays, tanks will simply stop running Alkosh, since in most cases for half the group or more its effect will be useless. So, the real outcome: stamina will have just lost another 3k penetration across the board.
Use a mace to penetrate more?
Just Major Fracture drops the value of Maces below that Axes/Daggers/Sword for 18k bosses, so it won't help at all in PvE.
false.
false.it's common knowledge that for pen calculation you go wep trait+cp+buffs and after all this is calculated the maces % gets added. AkA useless.
false again.
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