Please help! Magplar / Stamden

Valdek

Hey folks, I've been getting more into pvp recently and have started having a go at duels. No matter what I try, I get mullered. The fundamental problem seems to be I can be bursted down no matter how tanky my build and my damage seems far weaker and barely scratches good players.

I've looked at online videos, used advised armor sets / traits.

I've asked for advice and people say 'practise.' So far, I've found that being smashed over and over again hasn't made me any better.

Please help! Getting desperate here.

danthemann5

Stam Warden

Troll King or Blood Spawn heavy
Bone Pirate jewelry, gloves, and belt
Ravager chest, legs, feet, 2H, 1H, and shield

All Impen on the armor, Infused 1H, Nirnhoned 2H
All stam glyphs on armor (maybe tri-stats on the big pieces), weapon damage glyphs on jewelry, weapon damage glyph on 2H, absorb stam on 1H

Front Bar (2H)
1 - Dizzying Swing (Uppercut Morph - 2H)
2 - Reverse Slice (Reverse Slash Morph - 2H)
3 - Subterranean Assault (Scorch Morph - Animal Companions)
4 - Stampede (Critical Charge Morph - 2H) - Some folks opt to not run a gap closer. I find it necessary to chase down fleeing sorcs. Maybe Bird of Prey here?
5 - Forward Momentum (Momentum Morph - 2H)
Ult - Dongbreaker of Smiting (Dongbreaker Morph - Fighter's Guild)

Back Bar (Sword and Board):
1 - Soothing Spores (Fungal Growth Morph - Green Balance)
2 - Resolving Vigor (Vigor Morph - Assault)
3 - Shimmering Shield (Crystallized Shield Morph - Winter's Embrace) - Some folks opt for Green Lotus in this spot.
4 - Ice Fortress (Frost Cloak Morph - Winter's Embrace)
5 - Bull Netch (Betty Netch Morph - Animal Companions)
Ult - Healing Thicket (Secluded Grove Morph - Green Balance) - You could run Spell Wall here, but I like trees better.

Passives:
Animal Companions - All
Green Balance - All
Winter's Embrace - All
2H - All
One Hand and Shield - All
Heavy Armor - All
Medium Armor - All
Legerdemain - Improved Hiding
Finghter's Guild - All
Undaunted - Undaunted Mettle
Assault - All
Support - All
Racial - All
Alchemy - Medicinal Use
Provisioning - Connoisseur (nice, but not completely necessary)

Mundus - WARRIOR
Food/Drink - Dubious Camoran Throne
Potion - Immovable (Immovable, Health, and Stam OR Immovable, Speed, and Stam)

My play style:

I tank until I can spank. I run around mostly on my back bar, keeping Bull Netch and Ice Fortress up at all times. I can't stress how important it is to have those two things running at all times in a fight. Ice Fortress is 8% damage reduction, and Bull Netch is a big component of our sustain. I also try to keep Forward Momentum up as well. I use Vigor as my primary heal, and Soothing Spores as my "oh s***" heal. I use trees as a big group heal or as a "s*** s*** s*** oh s***" heal. I use a potion in the unlikely event I need an additional heal or stam boost. If I run low on stamina, I use heavy attacks on my back bar, and get additional stam from the Absorb Stam Enchant. If rooted or snared, I hit Forward Momentum. I don't die often, and when I do, it's because I do something dumb, I'm not paying attention, I get zerged (>8 people), or I get screwed by lag. Or another player is better than me and does monster damage.

For doing damage, I look for opportunities. I try to pick out targets that are low health, distracted, solo, have obviously low total health, are low on magicka/stam, etc. The burst combo goes something like this:

Sub Assault -> count "1 Mississippi" -> Stampede -> Dizzy Swing -> Dawnbreaker -> Execute (Reverse Slice) as needed.

Target selection is the name of the game. Most people with sub-optimal gear or PvP experience won't survive that. Sometimes the Dawnbreaker isn't even necessary.

If you need to pressure an enemy, a good way to do it is to weave light attacks with Sub Assault. Sub Assault is big damage, so that's a lot of pressure in addition to the light attacks. Plus, if you get a Ravager proc or a weapon damage proc, that's even more pressure. If your target is below 50% health, you can just beat them with Reverse Slice until they're dead. If you start taking a lot of damage, swap to the back bar and heal up. That's the reason for Troll Kings. In a fight, it makes a little heal go a LONG way.

danthemann5

Also, I will add:

Practice. Duel people better than you until you can beat them. It's hard to hone your skills in Cyrodiil or BGs. Duels are a great tool to help you get better.

Soris

Assuming you have a good build and optimised CP allocations, practice is the best and only way to get better, really...

Look closely what kills you the most. All classes have combos like the warden combo stated above. Try to interrupt their combo by stunning them or just mitigate their damage by block, dodge or with movement and jumping. Keep your buffs up at all times and play cautious/defensive mostly. Attack only when you see an openning. Study the recent dueling tourney video in this subforum, it's a very good example of this type of gameplay.

In time you will get used to it and you will start recognising their combo so you can anticipate what is to come next. Always pre-heal and be at full health when they are about to unload all the burst on you. Keep dueling but keep in mind most duelists are veteran players with duel optimised builds, so dont expect easy fights. If you are tired of being wrecked by elite duelers then you may go for solo/small scale fights in Cyrodiil.

Thogard

Stam warden is a tough class to duel on. Not ideal. Burst too predictable.

Checkmath

I agree with Thogard here: Stamden is not the best class to duel with. They rely on a short offensive burst combo, which the other way round can be prevented very easely. If somebody is familiar with the burst combo of stamden, then it will cost them barely some stamina to either dodge or block you whole combo. Stamden really relies on that combo, since decent damage over time effects are lacking.

In the case of having a solid build, then I either recommend a dueling spot, where rather new players are exercising instead of challenging far superior players all the time. If the gap between you and the enemy is too big, you will not learn much of that duel. If there are no good dueling spots for newer players, then maybe you can ask the pro players to go easy on you, so that you really can train.
Another method to exercise is open world cyrodiil. Turn an enemy resource and wait for the enemies. If it is only one enemy player, try to deal with him in open field away from the guards, if he is too strong, pull him towards the guards for some support. If there are several enemies, either you stay with the guards to battle them or you try divide them by going into the tower. Normally not everyone will follow you there, it will also help gaining awareness of the situation.

Nocturnalan

danthemann5 wrote: »

Stam Warden

Troll King or Blood Spawn heavy
Bone Pirate jewelry, gloves, and belt
Ravager chest, legs, feet, 2H, 1H, and shield

All Impen on the armor, Infused 1H, Nirnhoned 2H
All stam glyphs on armor (maybe tri-stats on the big pieces), weapon damage glyphs on jewelry, weapon damage glyph on 2H, absorb stam on 1H

Front Bar (2H)
1 - Dizzying Swing (Uppercut Morph - 2H)
2 - Reverse Slice (Reverse Slash Morph - 2H)
3 - Subterranean Assault (Scorch Morph - Animal Companions)
4 - Stampede (Critical Charge Morph - 2H) - Some folks opt to not run a gap closer. I find it necessary to chase down fleeing sorcs. Maybe Bird of Prey here?
5 - Forward Momentum (Momentum Morph - 2H)
Ult - Dongbreaker of Smiting (Dongbreaker Morph - Fighter's Guild)

Back Bar (Sword and Board):
1 - Soothing Spores (Fungal Growth Morph - Green Balance)
2 - Resolving Vigor (Vigor Morph - Assault)
3 - Shimmering Shield (Crystallized Shield Morph - Winter's Embrace) - Some folks opt for Green Lotus in this spot.
4 - Ice Fortress (Frost Cloak Morph - Winter's Embrace)
5 - Bull Netch (Betty Netch Morph - Animal Companions)
Ult - Healing Thicket (Secluded Grove Morph - Green Balance) - You could run Spell Wall here, but I like trees better.

Passives:
Animal Companions - All
Green Balance - All
Winter's Embrace - All
2H - All
One Hand and Shield - All
Heavy Armor - All
Medium Armor - All
Legerdemain - Improved Hiding
Finghter's Guild - All
Undaunted - Undaunted Mettle
Assault - All
Support - All
Racial - All
Alchemy - Medicinal Use
Provisioning - Connoisseur (nice, but not completely necessary)

Mundus - WARRIOR
Food/Drink - Dubious Camoran Throne
Potion - Immovable (Immovable, Health, and Stam OR Immovable, Speed, and Stam)

My play style:

I tank until I can spank. I run around mostly on my back bar, keeping Bull Netch and Ice Fortress up at all times. I can't stress how important it is to have those two things running at all times in a fight. Ice Fortress is 8% damage reduction, and Bull Netch is a big component of our sustain. I also try to keep Forward Momentum up as well. I use Vigor as my primary heal, and Soothing Spores as my "oh s***" heal. I use trees as a big group heal or as a "s*** s*** s*** oh s***" heal. I use a potion in the unlikely event I need an additional heal or stam boost. If I run low on stamina, I use heavy attacks on my back bar, and get additional stam from the Absorb Stam Enchant. If rooted or snared, I hit Forward Momentum. I don't die often, and when I do, it's because I do something dumb, I'm not paying attention, I get zerged (>8 people), or I get screwed by lag. Or another player is better than me and does monster damage.

For doing damage, I look for opportunities. I try to pick out targets that are low health, distracted, solo, have obviously low total health, are low on magicka/stam, etc. The burst combo goes something like this:

Sub Assault -> count "1 Mississippi" -> Stampede -> Dizzy Swing -> Dawnbreaker -> Execute (Reverse Slice) as needed.

Target selection is the name of the game. Most people with sub-optimal gear or PvP experience won't survive that. Sometimes the Dawnbreaker isn't even necessary.

If you need to pressure an enemy, a good way to do it is to weave light attacks with Sub Assault. Sub Assault is big damage, so that's a lot of pressure in addition to the light attacks. Plus, if you get a Ravager proc or a weapon damage proc, that's even more pressure. If your target is below 50% health, you can just beat them with Reverse Slice until they're dead. If you start taking a lot of damage, swap to the back bar and heal up. That's the reason for Troll Kings. In a fight, it makes a little heal go a LONG way.

Any changes you would make for next patch?

Feannag

New to stamden as well...I currently main a stamplar and use jabs to proc Ravaging...is there anything in the stamden kit that procs the set?

Thanks

LeifErickson

How much cp do you have?

mursie

at the level of play you are looking to achieve (dueling which is already a small segment of the population clearly focused on 1v1 pvp) - gear is not even 1/2 the battle. yes it is important, but everyone at this level of play will have a fundamentally sound build to rely upon.

The key to this type of play is managing the following:

1. keeping your buffs up throughout the fight - this takes alot of practice to master continually during the fight. everyone can pre-buff a fight, but keeping those buffs rolling 20+ seconds in is a differentiator.
2. identifying and blocking/mitigating/avoiding the key damage combos of the opponent. Again, takes alot of practice to learn and understand the combos your opponent has and the best way to dodge/block/mitigate/avoid that combo
3. landing your burst combo - the final piece of the puzzle. learning how to deliver your burst damage without your opponent successfully completing #2 above against you. Identifying the key moments in a duel where you can land and deliver your burst without the opponent blocking it is key.

As others have mentioned above, #3 will be hard for you to do in a 1v1 situation on a stamden. the combo is very predictable and many people will avoid it. For you to land your burst, it will require you to que up a sub assault and then get a well timed stun in before the sub lands to ensure you get full damage executed.

danthemann5

Nocturnalan wrote: »

danthemann5 wrote: »

Stam Warden

Blah blah blah.

Any changes you would make for next patch?

IDK yet. I'm going to wait and see how it plays in the next patch before I change anything. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I'm also running an identical build on a stamplar for comparison. Stamplar feels like more pressure and less tanky, although that could be my lack of experience with the stamplar toolkit. Of course, it's difficult to really do much of anything with the horrific lag.

I freely admit, I'm no expert; I consider myself to be average to slightly above average. This is the build that works for me and my play style.

If you're looking for actual expert warden advice, I would refer you to @Thogard, whom I regard as an actual expert.

Iskiab

So the recommendation for templars is to go stamplar? I’ve tried pvp as a magplar and suck at it. If stamplar is that much stronger I’ll switch.

mursie

Iskiab wrote: »

So the recommendation for templars is to go stamplar? I’ve tried pvp as a magplar and suck at it. If stamplar is that much stronger I’ll switch.

I think magplar can be pretty strong. look at steadfast hero or cyrodiil's light for some ways to make it "tanky" yet still perform in light armor. ritual with steadfast on jewels/weapons is pretty nice.

Valdek

Thank you so much all. Your advice is so practical and makes so much sense. I now have really clear targets to work towards and learn about.

You are awesome.

PDA No Way

danthemann5 wrote: »

Ult - Dongbreaker of Smiting (Dongbreaker Morph - Fighter's Guild)

I know this is a serious discussion but this is to good to miss

Jules

Need more information to even begin to assess this. Can you post a screenshot of your stats or a video of your gameplay? Would make it a lot easier to understand the problem.

Alfie2072

danthemann5 wrote: »

Stam Warden

Troll King or Blood Spawn heavy
Bone Pirate jewelry, gloves, and belt
Ravager chest, legs, feet, 2H, 1H, and shield

All Impen on the armor, Infused 1H, Nirnhoned 2H
All stam glyphs on armor (maybe tri-stats on the big pieces), weapon damage glyphs on jewelry, weapon damage glyph on 2H, absorb stam on 1H

Front Bar (2H)
1 - Dizzying Swing (Uppercut Morph - 2H)
2 - Reverse Slice (Reverse Slash Morph - 2H)
3 - Subterranean Assault (Scorch Morph - Animal Companions)
4 - Stampede (Critical Charge Morph - 2H) - Some folks opt to not run a gap closer. I find it necessary to chase down fleeing sorcs. Maybe Bird of Prey here?
5 - Forward Momentum (Momentum Morph - 2H)
Ult - Dongbreaker of Smiting (Dongbreaker Morph - Fighter's Guild)

Back Bar (Sword and Board):
1 - Soothing Spores (Fungal Growth Morph - Green Balance)
2 - Resolving Vigor (Vigor Morph - Assault)
3 - Shimmering Shield (Crystallized Shield Morph - Winter's Embrace) - Some folks opt for Green Lotus in this spot.
4 - Ice Fortress (Frost Cloak Morph - Winter's Embrace)
5 - Bull Netch (Betty Netch Morph - Animal Companions)
Ult - Healing Thicket (Secluded Grove Morph - Green Balance) - You could run Spell Wall here, but I like trees better.

Passives:
Animal Companions - All
Green Balance - All
Winter's Embrace - All
2H - All
One Hand and Shield - All
Heavy Armor - All
Medium Armor - All
Legerdemain - Improved Hiding
Finghter's Guild - All
Undaunted - Undaunted Mettle
Assault - All
Support - All
Racial - All
Alchemy - Medicinal Use
Provisioning - Connoisseur (nice, but not completely necessary)

Mundus - WARRIOR
Food/Drink - Dubious Camoran Throne
Potion - Immovable (Immovable, Health, and Stam OR Immovable, Speed, and Stam)

My play style:

I tank until I can spank. I run around mostly on my back bar, keeping Bull Netch and Ice Fortress up at all times. I can't stress how important it is to have those two things running at all times in a fight. Ice Fortress is 8% damage reduction, and Bull Netch is a big component of our sustain. I also try to keep Forward Momentum up as well. I use Vigor as my primary heal, and Soothing Spores as my "oh s***" heal. I use trees as a big group heal or as a "s*** s*** s*** oh s***" heal. I use a potion in the unlikely event I need an additional heal or stam boost. If I run low on stamina, I use heavy attacks on my back bar, and get additional stam from the Absorb Stam Enchant. If rooted or snared, I hit Forward Momentum. I don't die often, and when I do, it's because I do something dumb, I'm not paying attention, I get zerged (>8 people), or I get screwed by lag. Or another player is better than me and does monster damage.

For doing damage, I look for opportunities. I try to pick out targets that are low health, distracted, solo, have obviously low total health, are low on magicka/stam, etc. The burst combo goes something like this:

Sub Assault -> count "1 Mississippi" -> Stampede -> Dizzy Swing -> Dawnbreaker -> Execute (Reverse Slice) as needed.

Target selection is the name of the game. Most people with sub-optimal gear or PvP experience won't survive that. Sometimes the Dawnbreaker isn't even necessary.

If you need to pressure an enemy, a good way to do it is to weave light attacks with Sub Assault. Sub Assault is big damage, so that's a lot of pressure in addition to the light attacks. Plus, if you get a Ravager proc or a weapon damage proc, that's even more pressure. If your target is below 50% health, you can just beat them with Reverse Slice until they're dead. If you start taking a lot of damage, swap to the back bar and heal up. That's the reason for Troll Kings. In a fight, it makes a little heal go a LONG way.

2h with dswing is still viable on stamden? last i heard its complete doodoo with the nerfs to speed, it was already annoying to hit and now without the speed pots being up the whole time it seems like it would be even worse

Valdek

Thanks all for advice. My current magplar build remains unbeaten in duels and I've fought against very strong magdks, heavy stamblades, med gank stamblades, mag sorcs and stamdks. Not duelled a pet sorc yet... don't wanna ruin the dream! xD