Templar tanks in veteran trials.

KhajiitFelix

What do you think about inviting templar tanks into trials? Do you think they are viable? I know that DK tanks are better, but I don't find them very fun. So if you are experienced with being a templar tank or having a templar tank in your group, can you list their pros and cons in veteran trials and dlc dungeons?

WrathOfInnos

Templar tanks aren’t bad. They are tanky enough to survive any vet trial, and have decent resource management. The main reason DK tanks are preferred is for the group buffs. Engulfing Flames helps Magicka DPS by increasing their Fire damage by 10%. Minor Brutality helps stamina DPS by increasing their weapon damage by 10%. Templar does not have access to either of these, and the unique buffs they bring (minor sorcery, breach, and fracture, and shards) are often already covered by a healer or DPS. Basically, to optimize for a Templar tank you would need a MagDK DPS (stamDK wouldn’t have engulfing), which requires a melee spot and replaces a stamina DPS (which would probably do higher DPS).

xaraan

I've been using my Templar tank for quite a bit when I can in vTrials (currently working on vCR HMs) and I it feels like they are mainly missing one big thing from a tank standpoint: A solid self heal.

There is nothing like needing a huge burst of health and knowing it will only come from you for whatever reason and hitting breath of life and having it go to someone else, or trying to activate a HoT and hoping it ticks a few times before you fall over. When you are in that situation and you know you'd have no problem at all on a DK, Sorc, or Warden healer you start to feel like it's a HUGE missing piece. Honestly, one of the morphs of BoL should be a health based self heal IMO.

Outside of that, everyone will say 'engulfing flames' - if this one DK skill is the one factor making people force that role, then it's a reason it should be changed to a self buff IMO and not a damage buff for all fire. Especially considering DK already offers a wider variety of tanking tools that would still make them arguably the best tank even without engulfing.

Templars do offer PoL, which is unique, though often healers will run it. But it's a good option to have.

Outside of just not having a good health based self heal, they have good protection and regen tools with circle to keep down and their shield scales off health and does a solid job. They feel someone well rounded. But CC would be the only other thing missing - I had to use Bow with bombard on the beetles that spawn in Fang Lair to pin them down b/c I had no other option really. Time Stop is ok, but the timing has to be spot on. And Silver Leash is about as good as bombard really - as in: you don't wanna blow through stam, but at least you have the option I guess if you need the ability for a run.

IneedaDollar

In my Opinion its all about the Player. If it isnt a Score run anything can do the job but people usually prefer a bad DK Tank over a Well played Templar. The real Problem ist to convince people taking you with them not playing the content.

ccfeeling

xaraan wrote: »

I've been using my Templar tank for quite a bit when I can in vTrials (currently working on vCR HMs) and I it feels like they are mainly missing one big thing from a tank standpoint: A solid self heal.

There is nothing like needing a huge burst of health and knowing it will only come from you for whatever reason and hitting breath of life and having it go to someone else, or trying to activate a HoT and hoping it ticks a few times before you fall over. When you are in that situation and you know you'd have no problem at all on a DK, Sorc, or Warden healer you start to feel like it's a HUGE missing piece. Honestly, one of the morphs of BoL should be a health based self heal IMO.

Outside of that, everyone will say 'engulfing flames' - if this one DK skill is the one factor making people force that role, then it's a reason it should be changed to a self buff IMO and not a damage buff for all fire. Especially considering DK already offers a wider variety of tanking tools that would still make them arguably the best tank even without engulfing.

Templars do offer PoL, which is unique, though often healers will run it. But it's a good option to have.

Outside of just not having a good health based self heal, they have good protection and regen tools with circle to keep down and their shield scales off health and does a solid job. They feel someone well rounded. But CC would be the only other thing missing - I had to use Bow with bombard on the beetles that spawn in Fang Lair to pin them down b/c I had no other option really. Time Stop is ok, but the timing has to be spot on. And Silver Leash is about as good as bombard really - as in: you don't wanna blow through stam, but at least you have the option I guess if you need the ability for a run.

Good points.

If templar also has health scale healing, it will be a bit OP lol

I really admire non meta tank, could you share some video in hard contents if possible , thank you.

xaraan

ccfeeling wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I've been using my Templar tank for quite a bit when I can in vTrials (currently working on vCR HMs) and I it feels like they are mainly missing one big thing from a tank standpoint: A solid self heal.

There is nothing like needing a huge burst of health and knowing it will only come from you for whatever reason and hitting breath of life and having it go to someone else, or trying to activate a HoT and hoping it ticks a few times before you fall over. When you are in that situation and you know you'd have no problem at all on a DK, Sorc, or Warden healer you start to feel like it's a HUGE missing piece. Honestly, one of the morphs of BoL should be a health based self heal IMO.

Outside of that, everyone will say 'engulfing flames' - if this one DK skill is the one factor making people force that role, then it's a reason it should be changed to a self buff IMO and not a damage buff for all fire. Especially considering DK already offers a wider variety of tanking tools that would still make them arguably the best tank even without engulfing.

Templars do offer PoL, which is unique, though often healers will run it. But it's a good option to have.

Outside of just not having a good health based self heal, they have good protection and regen tools with circle to keep down and their shield scales off health and does a solid job. They feel someone well rounded. But CC would be the only other thing missing - I had to use Bow with bombard on the beetles that spawn in Fang Lair to pin them down b/c I had no other option really. Time Stop is ok, but the timing has to be spot on. And Silver Leash is about as good as bombard really - as in: you don't wanna blow through stam, but at least you have the option I guess if you need the ability for a run.

Good points.

If templar also has health scale healing, it will be a bit OP lol

I really admire non meta tank, could you share some video in hard contents if possible , thank you.

Not sure what the lol is for. A health scale heal won't make them OP at all.

In fact it would simply make them on par with DKs, Sorcs and to a lesser degree Wardens (In fact, every class except templar has a health based self heal - just that NBs have a bad one and Wardens have a so-so one). In playing the same content with the same teams, Templar comes in second worse just better than Nightblade. There are some mechanics in vHMs that require strong self heals on top of strong healer heals. And a Breath of Life that is only a little stronger than a single healing spring tick (being that your tank stats don't equal that of a healer) that could go to anyone in the group doesn't cut it.

I also think making them choose between their solid burst heal of Breath of Life or a self heal morph would be a fair choice as if you went the tanky route, you won't have access to the strong burst heal to help your allies and vice versa.

IMO, there are basic tank tools all classes should have and that is one of them. If you are ever in a situation where you think you'd be completely fine on half the other classes in the game and in terrible trouble on a particular class, then it's an issue of one of those missing tools. I enjoy differences in classes to the degree of utility skills (chains, shards, streak, aoe heals, talons, encase, etc.) But I think all classes should have an armor buff (which they have), some sort of shield skill (which they have, but a couple others lack) and a decent self heal (of which they have none).

So asking for equal survivability in a tank of one class vs another is not OP. And even if they had this, they'd still not be the go-to class for tanking and probably not even be second.

BejaProphet

After everything I’ve seen as a tank I absolutely think a good self heal is a tanking need, not a luxury.

A good tank heal should be very strong, but it’s resource strain should leave you desiring a healer in the group.

Exactly how the Templar measures up to that I’m not sure. Does the cheapness of Honor the dead balance out it’s weakness for a low Max Magicka build? Templar’s have to answer that one.

But if it truely doesn’t then devs need to help them out. Because a tank must be able to take care of themselves in a variety of situations when heals won’t be coming.

Just my opinion.

SoLooney

They definitely are viable, we used a templar off tank for my vas plus 2 clear.

As states by others, dk tanks are just vastly superior because they provide great group utility, are very tanky, great resource management with igneous and use of ultimate. They're just very friendly for end game tanking for those reasons

No class can compare or offer what a Dk can.

Since most content usually need two tanks, I've always seen a warden as a popular choice. Also provides group with minor toughness