Blazing Templars PvP

NoFlash

Are they dead? Recently came back to eso and I wanted to try one out. Any one have build suggestions?

Checkmath

EvoAZN wrote: »

Are they dead? Recently came back to eso and I wanted to try one out. Any one have build suggestions?

There are a few things, which makes them not really favored to play:
-The value of the shield size got lowered and lowered even more during past months and year.
-Blazing shield is currently bugged (will be resolved with the next DLC), so that the explosions damage is capped and very small somehow
-You really need lots of health to really get a decent shield
-Sustain is mostly terrible

Still you surely can make it work, it will just not be a playstyle viable for solo, rather for group play.

SugaComa

Yeah they're awesome ... But only on ep and DC for some reason.
See you in cyrodil

For the queen ...(sic)

Minno

Checkmath wrote: »

EvoAZN wrote: »

Are they dead? Recently came back to eso and I wanted to try one out. Any one have build suggestions?

There are a few things, which makes them not really favored to play:
-The value of the shield size got lowered and lowered even more during past months and year.
-Blazing shield is currently bugged (will be resolved with the next DLC), so that the explosions damage is capped and very small somehow
-You really need lots of health to really get a decent shield
-Sustain is mostly terrible

Still you surely can make it work, it will just not be a playstyle viable for solo, rather for group play.

On live, with 24-25k health I was getting 2400 capped damage on both normal and crits (PVE).
On pts, in both duels/pve i was critting for 4k without imperial passives (almost 5k with).

I think BS builds can stretch it next patch

Synozeer

R.I.P. Blazing shield templars

Soris

I hope it gets a big buff next patch. Maybe some sort of cc mechanic or just bigger shield with more damage like it used to be. That, and healing ritual turned into a HoT...
Mmm Templar perfection.😏

Neoauspex

Problem is that if it gets buffed it can get abused. It's a difficult skill to manage as long as it scales off a max stat.

Soris

Perhaps not anymore since they added shield cap to game. No excuses left to not to buff up this skill ^^

NoFlash

it's a unique playstyle that will be missed.

Minno

EvoAZN wrote: »

it's a unique playstyle that will be missed.

Yup. Only shield that deals DMG that was so much nerfed that even in pve some Templar tanks don't run it.

Just look at the stuff you used to do with it! Video has so much soul:
- huge shield that wasnt overpowered that also added to burst
- blazing spear stun lol
- blazing spear into toppling into dark flare. You try this today and a bleed will kill you mid flight lol
- OG eclipse that used to reflect EVERTHING.
https://youtu.be/3tkzV55X0n8

Soris

Hahaha eclipse into dark talons Best root removal ever!

StarOfElyon

Mist Form? Not even once.

Checkmath

Minno wrote: »

EvoAZN wrote: »

it's a unique playstyle that will be missed.

Yup. Only shield that deals DMG that was so much nerfed that even in pve some Templar tanks don't run it.

Just look at the stuff you used to do with it! Video has so much soul:
- huge shield that wasnt overpowered that also added to burst
- blazing spear stun lol
- blazing spear into toppling into dark flare. You try this today and a bleed will kill you mid flight lol
- OG eclipse that used to reflect EVERTHING.
https://youtu.be/3tkzV55X0n8

I dont understand why this guy used shield charge in the first clip (I know that lots of magicka players used that before), but he had both shield charge and toppling charge slotted and used both. But in the end, the first death in that video was his own fault, because he used shield charge and did not have enough stamina to break free afterwards.

Minno

Checkmath wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

EvoAZN wrote: »

it's a unique playstyle that will be missed.

Yup. Only shield that deals DMG that was so much nerfed that even in pve some Templar tanks don't run it.

Just look at the stuff you used to do with it! Video has so much soul:
- huge shield that wasnt overpowered that also added to burst
- blazing spear stun lol
- blazing spear into toppling into dark flare. You try this today and a bleed will kill you mid flight lol
- OG eclipse that used to reflect EVERTHING.
https://youtu.be/3tkzV55X0n8

I dont understand why this guy used shield charge in the first clip (I know that lots of magicka players used that before), but he had both shield charge and toppling charge slotted and used both. But in the end, the first death in that video was his own fault, because he used shield charge and did not have enough stamina to break free afterwards.

Check, this is like softcap era. likely used both pools for dmg.

Checkmath

Minno wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

EvoAZN wrote: »

it's a unique playstyle that will be missed.

Yup. Only shield that deals DMG that was so much nerfed that even in pve some Templar tanks don't run it.

Just look at the stuff you used to do with it! Video has so much soul:
- huge shield that wasnt overpowered that also added to burst
- blazing spear stun lol
- blazing spear into toppling into dark flare. You try this today and a bleed will kill you mid flight lol
- OG eclipse that used to reflect EVERTHING.
https://youtu.be/3tkzV55X0n8

I dont understand why this guy used shield charge in the first clip (I know that lots of magicka players used that before), but he had both shield charge and toppling charge slotted and used both. But in the end, the first death in that video was his own fault, because he used shield charge and did not have enough stamina to break free afterwards.

Check, this is like softcap era. likely used both pools for dmg.

He still should have saved up some stamina to break free and should have used toppling charge instead

Soris

He was using searing light instead of blinding flashes. That got my attention more than double charge ^^

Minno

Checkmath wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

EvoAZN wrote: »

it's a unique playstyle that will be missed.

Yup. Only shield that deals DMG that was so much nerfed that even in pve some Templar tanks don't run it.

Just look at the stuff you used to do with it! Video has so much soul:
- huge shield that wasnt overpowered that also added to burst
- blazing spear stun lol
- blazing spear into toppling into dark flare. You try this today and a bleed will kill you mid flight lol
- OG eclipse that used to reflect EVERTHING.
https://youtu.be/3tkzV55X0n8

I dont understand why this guy used shield charge in the first clip (I know that lots of magicka players used that before), but he had both shield charge and toppling charge slotted and used both. But in the end, the first death in that video was his own fault, because he used shield charge and did not have enough stamina to break free afterwards.

Check, this is like softcap era. likely used both pools for dmg.

He still should have saved up some stamina to break free and should have used toppling charge instead

Lol. I know divines loved to bate people with faking Stam drain by not cc breaking when he should.

casparian

Blazing Shield really ought to be the Templar version of magDK's Inhale, and I suspect that if there's anyone at ZOS still trying to balance this skill, Inhale is one of their touchstones for balancing it. And at any rate, the skills look very similar on paper: they're both quasi-defensive skills providing delayed burst and the ability to get off the defensive and go on offense. So let's compare the two:

• BS is a shield while Inhale is a heal. Different things with roughly the same goal: to extend the time you're able to stay in the fight. The shield itself is actually not so bad in comparison to Inhale's heal -- if my math is right, they're going to be about the same most of the time on paper, with Inhale generally being a little bit better. The problem is that Inhale isn't affected by shield caps, meaning Inhale will outperform BS in terms of giving you some breathing room.
• BS deals delayed damage equal to 40% of the damage the shield absorbed. This typically hits for something like 2k damage on a build with a normal amount of health (25k-ish). The damage component on Inhale, on the other hand, is quite strong -- my magDK builds typically see it with a tooltip of around 8k, meaning it hits for about twice the damage of BS once Battle Spirit is factored in. It's also worth mentioning that Inhale has a larger range than BS (8m vs 5m). Maybe this is okay because BS has a chance to proc Burning Light?
• Both of Inhale's morphs have pretty good utility attached to them: one is an AOE interrupt, and the other is a very good sustain tool. Neither morph of BS has any utility whatsoever beyond activating Aedric Spear passives.

I'd say that Sun Shield and morphs need three things in order to compete for bar space in PVP:

1. Drop the health-scaling mechanic altogether. If it were an 8k shield at base (4k in Cyrodiil) with the ability to get a little bit larger depending on the number of enemies nearby, it would provide a respectable amount of breathing room (maybe not comparable to old Blazing builds, but comparable to Inhale) without being anything close to OP.
2. Give this skill a different interaction with Burning Light. BS damage needs to go up, but increasing the damage while also having the chance to include a 5-7k Burning Light proc might be too much. Here are a few ideas:

• Give it a guaranteed Burning Light proc. Taking away the RNG of Burning Light on this skill alone would make it a reliable source of delayed damage while still requiring templars to combine it with other sources of damage to get kills.
• Increase the damage but move this skill to Dawn's Wrath.
• Have BS grant a buff to the caster which increases Burning Light damage for X seconds.

3. Give the skill actual utility. Here is the chance to give some love to PVE templar tanks. I'd love to see enemies hit by the initial cast rooted or staggered or something.

StarOfElyon

The first morph should stun or cause players to go off balance when it's activated.

Minno

casparian wrote: »

Blazing Shield really ought to be the Templar version of magDK's Inhale, and I suspect that if there's anyone at ZOS still trying to balance this skill, Inhale is one of their touchstones for balancing it. And at any rate, the skills look very similar on paper: they're both quasi-defensive skills providing delayed burst and the ability to get off the defensive and go on offense. So let's compare the two:

• BS is a shield while Inhale is a heal. Different things with roughly the same goal: to extend the time you're able to stay in the fight. The shield itself is actually not so bad in comparison to Inhale's heal -- if my math is right, they're going to be about the same most of the time on paper, with Inhale generally being a little bit better. The problem is that Inhale isn't affected by shield caps, meaning Inhale will outperform BS in terms of giving you some breathing room.
• BS deals delayed damage equal to 40% of the damage the shield absorbed. This typically hits for something like 2k damage on a build with a normal amount of health (25k-ish). The damage component on Inhale, on the other hand, is quite strong -- my magDK builds typically see it with a tooltip of around 8k, meaning it hits for about twice the damage of BS once Battle Spirit is factored in. It's also worth mentioning that Inhale has a larger range than BS (8m vs 5m). Maybe this is okay because BS has a chance to proc Burning Light?
• Both of Inhale's morphs have pretty good utility attached to them: one is an AOE interrupt, and the other is a very good sustain tool. Neither morph of BS has any utility whatsoever beyond activating Aedric Spear passives.

I'd say that Sun Shield and morphs need three things in order to compete for bar space in PVP:

1. Drop the health-scaling mechanic altogether. If it were an 8k shield at base (4k in Cyrodiil) with the ability to get a little bit larger depending on the number of enemies nearby, it would provide a respectable amount of breathing room (maybe not comparable to old Blazing builds, but comparable to Inhale) without being anything close to OP.
2. Give this skill a different interaction with Burning Light. BS damage needs to go up, but increasing the damage while also having the chance to include a 5-7k Burning Light proc might be too much. Here are a few ideas:

• Give it a guaranteed Burning Light proc. Taking away the RNG of Burning Light on this skill alone would make it a reliable source of delayed damage while still requiring templars to combine it with other sources of damage to get kills.
• Increase the damage but move this skill to Dawn's Wrath.
• Have BS grant a buff to the caster which increases Burning Light damage for X seconds.

3. Give the skill actual utility. Here is the chance to give some love to PVE templar tanks. I'd love to see enemies hit by the initial cast rooted or staggered or something.

Keep in mind, at 25k health, you get like a 3900 shield already with 1 enemy nearby. The problem is that this is after a 15% shield instead of the 30%. So in PVE youll get this amazing 8k shield, that can overperform, but in PVP it pops WAY too early to make use of it defensively to jump from defense to offense.

It needs utility under it's current state; if it rooted/staggered and granted a burning light proc instantly would provide the needed skill to swap from defense to offense. Otherwise the cap needs to be lift a bit.

miteba

It was a good skill somewhere in the past!
In these days we saw some creative niche builds around it but they eventually become obsolete with bad developers decisions! (Proof is that is rarely seen nowdays)

Obviously there should be some people still using it, if not they should have reworked it by now, but i really dont see anybody using it actively in PVE ir PVP anymore (imo).

As soon someone creates a successful "niche" build, a PvP one in the case i remember, there is always crying and whining in foruns... And Zos nerfs it destroying build diversity! Really is what more annoys me in the game!

StarOfElyon

I need more protection so I would love to make use of the shield but my health peaks around 15000 - 16000 with buff food. It's only good for stamplars or tanks.

I know light armor has annulment but I want to use the Templar skills.

thegreat_one

BS templars are something that work when u are in the right situation.
I used them well when 12-24 were on a ram at the FD, walked out and spammed it. They had no idea what was hitting them and they all took massive damage. for a shield tho i found that it doesn't give you enough protection as some other class shield, A cap would explain why it wasn't working to my expectations

Minno

thegreat_one wrote: »

BS templars are something that work when u are in the right situation.
I used them well when 12-24 were on a ram at the FD, walked out and spammed it. They had no idea what was hitting them and they all took massive damage. for a shield tho i found that it doesn't give you enough protection as some other class shield, A cap would explain why it wasn't working to my expectations

The cap is on the DMG. You'll forever only have 15% of your max health in PvP and next patch you'll have less health due to the racial changes on certain setups.

The ability was nerfed when they added battlespirit and completely distroyed when they made countless changes.

imredneckson

EvoAZN wrote: »

Are they dead? Recently came back to eso and I wanted to try one out. Any one have build suggestions?

Blazing Shield builds have been dead for a while. I only know one thats still players one. NB Health tank on the other hand are pretty well off. My tank has about 69k HP and I can use Bone Shield just as well as Blazing Shield. Heres the build I have right now


Unbuffed



Self Buffed



Here is the link to the build.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=97330

Checkmath

Is there a point to run a nightblade tank in PvP? They do not deal damage and also do not really control the enemy crowd (lack of cc's). I mean a blazing shield templar was famous for being tanky, but also dealing damage. A dk tank could control the enemies with talons, fossilize and aoe stuns.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=115646

This would be my best try to make a blazing shield templar somehow viable, without being totally useless in all situations (it still has some good spelldamage and magicka, so also abilities deal some damage and honor the dead still heals for quite a bit).

Torbschka

Checkmath wrote: »

Is there a point to run a nightblade tank in PvP? They do not deal damage and also do not really control the enemy crowd (lack of cc's). I mean a blazing shield templar was famous for being tanky, but also dealing damage. A dk tank could control the enemies with talons, fossilize and aoe stuns.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=115646

This would be my best try to make a blazing shield templar somehow viable, without being totally useless in all situations (it still has some good spelldamage and magicka, so also abilities deal some damage and honor the dead still heals for quite a bit).

Use Willpower frontbar, Ur shield is backbar anyway. With 35k mag and that spelldmg IT IS decent.

Checkmath

Torbschka wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Is there a point to run a nightblade tank in PvP? They do not deal damage and also do not really control the enemy crowd (lack of cc's). I mean a blazing shield templar was famous for being tanky, but also dealing damage. A dk tank could control the enemies with talons, fossilize and aoe stuns.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=115646

This would be my best try to make a blazing shield templar somehow viable, without being totally useless in all situations (it still has some good spelldamage and magicka, so also abilities deal some damage and honor the dead still heals for quite a bit).

Use Willpower frontbar, Ur shield is backbar anyway. With 35k mag and that spelldmg IT IS decent.

I just made that build up, I dont intent to play it. I guess losing 8k health on the frontbar is not a good idea.

Torbschka

Checkmath wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Is there a point to run a nightblade tank in PvP? They do not deal damage and also do not really control the enemy crowd (lack of cc's). I mean a blazing shield templar was famous for being tanky, but also dealing damage. A dk tank could control the enemies with talons, fossilize and aoe stuns.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=115646

This would be my best try to make a blazing shield templar somehow viable, without being totally useless in all situations (it still has some good spelldamage and magicka, so also abilities deal some damage and honor the dead still heals for quite a bit).

Use Willpower frontbar, Ur shield is backbar anyway. With 35k mag and that spelldmg IT IS decent.

I just made that build up, I dont intent to play it. I guess losing 8k health on the frontbar is not a good idea.

I just realized, sorry. I dont mind losing 8k health frontbar, u will still haveover 30k though - but I guess this is just prefrence.

imredneckson

Checkmath wrote: »

Is there a point to run a nightblade tank in PvP? They do not deal damage and also do not really control the enemy crowd (lack of cc's). I mean a blazing shield templar was famous for being tanky, but also dealing damage. A dk tank could control the enemies with talons, fossilize and aoe stuns.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=115646

This would be my best try to make a blazing shield templar somehow viable, without being totally useless in all situations (it still has some good spelldamage and magicka, so also abilities deal some damage and honor the dead still heals for quite a bit).

A NB tank using Spiked Bone Shield can deal just as much if not more damage than a Blazing Shield Templar (if we're mostly just going to use our shield as our main sources of DPS). Yeah, NB don't have a very good CC for fighting multiple players but their healing and protection is pretty good if set up right.

The build I have above can cover itself with an 12k Spiked Bone Shield, hit Cloak, and gain Minor Protection and heal for 32% of my HP. That's not including if they are Magicka and so I can use Absorb Magicka. It's.

I'd need to switch up my build a bit to make it viable for running at someone and killing them but I like a challenge

Irylia

Havent seen one in ages